About those Zimmerman photos--

[Jackpine Radical]

One thing cops are trained to do, especially in homicide cases, is to preserve evidence. I have seen a helluva lot of police files in my career, ranging from domestic abuse to ugly sexual murder cases. In every case, they had photos of the victims with all their injuries prominently visible in close-ups.

Cops don't go into an investigation without cameras, and without recording details of the event scene.

It is inconceivable to me that, if Zimmerman had such injuries, that the police would not have photographed them while they were still clear and obvious.

If Zimmerman was injured, there will be photos to prove it.

No photos, no injuries.

They don't have to release the pics now while the investigaton is ongoing, but eventually they'll have to show 'em if they got 'em.

[hedgehog]

1. Again, if he was injured before he was in custody,

they would take photos to prove he wasn't injured after he was in custody!

[obamanut2012]

22. Exactly -- cops do that to CYA

[Cali_Democrat]

2. Are the photos usually taken at the seen? Or are they taken at the station?

Also, are people "cleaned up" before the photos are taken?

[SemperEadem]

25. no... from what I understand they take the victim in the state they find him

to the hospital/police station and photograph them there.

If they're cleaned up, then they've destroyed visual evidence of the severity of what went down. It's harder to collect evidence after someone has "cleaned up".

Seems to me that if an assault really went down, he would want the police to include that in the evidence to bolster his case.

[spin]

3. I talked to a person with EMT training ...

and he said that the EMTs should also have filed a report on the injuries.

I feel that there are enough questions in this incident to merit prosecution. If it is determined that prosecution is not necessary, I feel the state should release all the details of the investigation. If the state refuses, I predict riots in the street.

[SamG]

10. The state is under no obligation to release to the public any details until

there is a trial.

Before the trial, the details are released to the defense team ONLY. If the defense team wishes, and there are no gag orders placed upon them, THEY may release details before the trial.

I suspect there will be gag orders on both sides for a trial of this magnitude. The level of animosity on BOTH sides is rising daily.

[spin]

11. I fear that you are right ...

and the outrage over the incident will continue to grow.

[SamG]

15. Yes, this is another OJ trial type event.

I predict we will be talking about this case for 2 years or longer if Zimmerman is ever convicted and appeals his conviction.

[spin]

17. I wonder if it will be called ...

"The Trial of the Century."

[SamG]

20. Heck yeah! OJ was the LAST century! n/t

[grasswire]

30. the Martin atty stated last night they have no medical report on Zimmerman

The atty specifically stated that Martin team has received NO MEDICAL report on Zimmerman from either the night of the murder or from his hospital visit the next day.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. Why is it that I don't believe him

If there are records,they are part of the discovery process.

[grasswire]

44. there is no discovery process yet

No charges, no exchange of evidence

[SamG]

46. PRECISELY !!! WE need an arrest in order to...

start any process of discovery, or any process of public right to review documents and evidence.

THAT is the main LEGAL reason this is such a tragedy, no arrest yet, no charges pending against an admitted killer.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

4. Reportedly the current State Attorney has imposed a data blackout after the release of CCTV video

So it may be a while before we find out about photos. There is also the EMS report, the rest of the police reports, autopsy report and others that are all being sat on.

[liberalhistorian]

16. Except that isn't that the same

State's Attorney who consulted in person with the police that night and made the decision not to arrest Zimmerman and not to investigate further, who, therefore, may very well be involved in the coverup??

[ProgressiveProfessor]

28. Neither have decided to have Zimmerman arrested

The original States Attorney recused himself and another was brought in over a week ago.

[robinlynne]

5. The story is that they took no photos, not even of Trayvon.

[Marrah_G]

6. this is mind boggling

[robinlynne]

8. absolutely.

[Cali_Democrat]

7. What?

Where did you read that?

[robinlynne]

9. I'm not sure. I read so many articles. that's why I said "the story is".

[SamG]

14. Now THAT would be absurd, but possible.

Police procedure requires a thorough documentation of the crime scene, including pictures of the body before it is moved, immediately AFTER it is attended-to by EMT's who determine the absence of pulse or respiration, and cease their work on the body. Sometimes, an EMT will actually have a camera, to photograph the face, in the case of no ID.

Pictures of the body at autopsy should number in the dozens. There will also be autopsy chest xrays, to locate a projectile(s), bullet(s), arrow(s), broken chest bones, etc., prior to the autopsy commencing. The medical examiner will not be told much about the circumstances causing death, other than suspected gunshot wound. One gunshot or more? Up to the M E to determine. Strangulation? Up to the M E to determine. Other bodily injuries, (broken arm leg, skull, etc.)? Up to the M.E. .to find at autopsy. Often (sometimes) a corpse will show multiple causes of death, more than one bullet, strangulation and broken skull, or any number of lovely combinations.

[sabrina 1]

24. That can't be true, because it was a photo of Trayvon after death they cops used to show his

father for identification. So they did take photos of Trayvon at least.

[SemperEadem]

27. on a slab at the morgue most likely.

all "John Doe"'s are photographed.

[robinlynne]

40. there is one published police report at the crime scene. It says step by step

then so and so turned the body over, then so and so put up the crime scene tape, then i took the gun from Zimmerman,
then Zimmerman was placed in my car, then medics looked at Zimmerman. Photos are never mentioned.

BUT I dont believe that report of events anyway. It looks like it is all about proetcitng Zimmerman, AND the times are incorrect. It has the exact same time for the 911 call, cops arriving on the scene, and something else, whichis impossible.

[sabrina 1]

42. I've seen the police reports. Actually the timeline when you look at all the times, including the

girlfriend's cell phone record, and they cannot fake the cell phone times, do fit when you put it all together. The reports do not mention photos but I do not know if that is unusual. Would have to see other police crime scene reports. We know there was at least one photo of Trayvon was all I was saying. But that was most likely taken at the morgue as someone below suggested.

There are also Trayvon's clothing, who has that? His cell phone, later reports now say that the police contacted his girl-friend, in fact Trayvon's father stated that in an interview, so they obviously did check Trayvon's phone which we thought they had not, and found her number as the last call he made.

A lot of the reporting has been very inaccurate as is always the case with the media on stories like this. Eye-witnesses phone calls also have times and they have provided, at least one of them, the exact time of the shooting, which matches the police report.

[Jackpine Radical]

13. The only reason not to take pics

would be to avoid incriminating yourself when you're planning to lie about the event.

A homicide scene with no cameras? Bull fuckin' SHIT. Pics were taken. If none are brought forward, that is to me prima facie evidence of a coverup.

[pnwmom]

29. Does "the story" explain why they didn't follow standard procedures? n/t

[ProgressiveProfessor]

32. Have a source for that?

Its something that has been repeat often, but I am looking for where that information came from.

[slackmaster]

12. Yes, you get it

[bpj62]

18. CSI not the tv show.

Once the police are on the scene they will call EMS to either transport the victim or determine the the victim is deceased. A wounded person will be moved at crime scene however a dead one will not. A competent forensic unit will than catalog the scene via pictures and the collection of evidence and that includes George Zimmerman's clothes and the 9mm used in the shooting. Once all of the evidence is collected around the body the body is then released to the local ME for examination. I find it hard to believe that an entire department was in cahoots and that they all immediately came to the same conclusion. I have a feeling that the ME findings as well as the forensic teams finding are painting a different picture. I have been wondering why the autopsy report has not been released. I think that the hire ups in the Florida Department of Justice have a time bomb on their hand and they are trying to get it under control.

[thucythucy]

19. "I find it hard to believe an entire department was in cahoots...."

It depends on the department. Knowing very little about Sanford, other than what's been in the news recently, it's difficult to determine whether or not there is the same sort of "culture of corruption" that has been found in other departments, especially smaller departments where everybody more or less knows everybody else, and once an initial mistake or even corrupt judgment is made, the tendency is for everyone "to pull together for the team" and cover for each other.

That's why we need an investigation, to get to the bottom of this, and full disclosure of all the facts and evidence.

[obamanut2012]

26. West Memphis, AR and Tulia, TX, just to name two

[Jackpine Radical]

48. Burnett Co., WI.

[SamG]

21. " A competent forensic unit will than catalog the scene via pictures"

That is the key question here. I'm not sure that one ever responded.

As the to autopsy, the state is under no obligation to release the complete autopsy report when there is no trial, no one charged with a crime.

It burns me up that they can't seem to see the obvious just from the evidence already released: Trayvon Martin was hunted and gunned down, period.

[bpj62]

34. Forensic team at Crime scene

That would be a serious breach of established protocol if a CSI unit did not show up at a potential murder scene. As I said earlier this would involve collaboration between all of the separate sections of the Sanford Police Department. Regarding the autopsy report I know that Florida changed its sunshine laws after the death of Dale Earnhart because the family objected to the release of the autopsy photos. I think the Martin family has a right to the report particularly since Treyvon Martin was a minor.

[SemperEadem]

31. does Sanford have a "competant forensics unit"

sounds to me as if that is debatable.

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. Oh I am sure they do

The question is, why wasn't it used?

This raises a few questions about influence peddling, remember homicide investigator wanted to file charges, DA said no.

Yes, the term criminal conspiracy comes to mind.

[atreides1]

36. "I find it hard to believe that an entire department was in cahoots..."

Not the whole department, just those officers who were involved...with the exception of the detective who wanted charges filed against him!

[Rex]

23. They ain't got JACK!

Those photos would already be all over the M$M, front and back a thousand times over! The M$M has decided to side with Team Zimm and would have used said pictures 24/7 to help foster animosity toward the kid he killed! They were all over the corpse trying to find drugs (which I think they were going to use as an excuse).

[grasswire]

33. evidence was not preserved

Reportedly, Zimmerman's hands and feet should have been bagged to preserve evidence until it could be collected.

When he enters the police station, he wipes his shoes on the floor mat. Evidence presumably was destroyed when he did that.

[bpj62]

35. GSR

You are absolutely correct. he also should have been drug tested because if he fired the pistol while under the influence then he could not claim SYG because his judgement was inpaired. I do not know Florida law but I would hope tha there is a law against firing a weapon while under the infuence.

[SamG]

37. And no drug or alcohol testing, I understand

except for the body of Trayvon, of course.

So I'm wondering how a town of 40-50 thousand could say that they had a competent crime scene or forensics unit.

If they did, Zimmerman would be in jail now.

[Gold Metal Flake]

41. Aw fuck, we are all just waiting for the trial.

I feel certain the guy is gonna be charged eventually.

[hedgehog]

43. Does anyone know where the gun is today?

I think Zimmerman handed it to the first responding officer, but what happened after that?

[glowing]

45. They started a smear campaign against the child.. If GZ was injured, the photos would

have been released before the smearing began...

[Life Long Dem]

47. The lead detective must have been taking all the evidence

if he thought this should have been an arrest. He wouldn't say that and not take or have the evidence.