The killing of this 68-yr. old black veteran by police is even worse than Tayvon's killing

[Bonobo]

http://www.democracynow.org/2012/3/29/killed_at_home_white_plains_ny
As the Trayvon Martin case draws national attention, we look at another fatal shooting of an African-American male that has received far less scrutiny. Kenneth Chamberlain, Sr., a 68-year-old African-American Marine veteran, was fatally shot in November by White Plains, NY, police who responded to a false alarm from his medical alert pendant. The officers broke down Chamberlain’s door, tasered him, and then shot him dead. Audio of the entire incident was recorded by the medical alert device in Chamberlain’s apartment. We’re joined by family attorneys and Chamberlain’s son, Kenneth Chamberlain, Jr., who struggles through tears to recount his father’s final moments, including the way police officers mocked his father’s past as a marine. "For them to look at my father that way, (with) no regard for his life, every morning I think about it," he says. [includes rush transcript]

JUAN GONZALEZ: As the shooting death of Trayvon Martin continues to draw national attention, today we look at another controversial shooting of an African-American male that has received far less scrutiny. On the morning of November 19th, a 68-year-old former marine named Kenneth Chamberlain with a heart condition accidentally pressed the button on his medical alert system while sleeping. Responding to the alert, police officers from the city of White Plains, New York, arrived at Chamberlain’s apartment in a public housing complex shortly after 5 a.m. By the time the police left the apartment, Kenneth Chamberlain was dead, shot twice in the chest by a police officer inside his home. Police gained entry to Chamberlain’s apartment only after they took his front door off its hinges. Officers first shot him with a taser, then a beanbag shotgun, and then with live ammunition.

AMY GOODMAN: Police have insisted the use of force was warranted. They said Kenneth Chamberlain was emotionally disturbed and had pulled a knife on the officers. This is David Chong, public safety commissioner in White Plains.

DAVID CHONG: The officers first used an electronic taser, which was discharged, hit the victim, and had no effect. While the officers were retreating, the officers then used a shotgun, a beanbag shotgun.

AMY GOODMAN: Relatives of Kenneth Chamberlain have questioned the police portrayal of events that led to his death, and they say audio and video recorded at the scene back up their case. According to the family, Kenneth Chamberlain can be heard on an audio recording of his call to the medical alert system operator saying, quote, "Please leave me alone. I’m 68 with a heart condition. Why are you doing this to me? Can you please leave me alone?" Officers allegedly responded by calling Chamberlain a racial slur while urging him to open the door. The audio recording of the incident has not been made public and remains in the possession of the Westchester District Attorney’s office.

[Bonobo]

1. I just noticed the big thread on this. Here is a link.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=489605

[azurnoir]

2. Not to worry IMO this one deserves more attention than one thread

what a horrible thing the cops are out of control and seem to think that as long as it's a Black person anything they bdo or say is ok, and really what is most disturbing is that experience probably taught them this.

[Bonobo]

3. This story fills me with anger, shock and sadness.

I think America is a terrible place for many people.

I think the relationship between the people and the police is so antagonistic and filled with distrust, that it must be scrapped and rebuilt from ZERO.

I think the police infrastructure should be torn down and replaced and that all guns need to be removed from America.

I think I made the right decision to leave and I am sorry that it had to be done. I certainly never imagined it would happen.

[dkf]

27. How do you rebuild it from zero? Fire all police officers?

Isn't this just as prejudiced as racism?

What if it is the experiences they go through that form these attitudes and that is the most likely outcome given the typical psychological response?

[Bonobo]

28. No, it is nothing like racism and I do not understand people that say it is.

Fire them all and then rehire the ones that are re-evaluated as being worthwhile to rehire.

As for your question, it may be the case, but it is a chicken and egg thing.

[dkf]

34. How is prejudging a person because of their occupation not the same as prejudging due to race?

[sabrina 1]

38. I think there needs to be a complete cleaning out of our Police Departments. Racism abounds

at in so many of them. There are some good cops, but they dare not speak out. Look what happens to them when they do.

I am filled with anger over this case also. It is a horror story. It is a stain on this country, it is an indictment of America that so many months have gone by and elected officials have remained silent about it.

Cleaning out the Police Departments has imo, become necessary. They are now a threat to the safety of the public. But there are, as I said, some good cops and once the bad guys are gone, they can do their jobs as they probably have wanted to.

This case alone, and it is only one of many, should be enough to cause a complete investigation into America's civilian Police Departments who many now view as more of a threat to their safety, thn criminals.

[HiPointDem]

30. No, it's NOTHING like racism.

1) No one is born a police officer. It's a job that they chose.

2) When they take off the uniform, no one knows they're police.

3) Police are agents of state power and agents of the ruling classes. As such, they can enforce their will and their version of "reality" on others -- and their version will typically be believed and upheld unless there's ABSOLUTELY AIRTIGHT DAMNING evidence to the contrary. They legally carry guns, tasers and have access to other weapons. They legally spy on us with air and video surveillance. They have access to our personal information. They can require us to identify ourselves and they can detain us for not doing so EVEN IF WE HAVE DONE NOTHING ELSE WRONG.

4) Minority groups have no position of power over others; rather the opposite. They are LESS likely than average to be believed when there's a conflict, and they are MORE LIKELY to be suspected of wrongdoing. In part, this is because of a continual propaganda assault which teaches us from the cradle that certain categories of people are not to be trusted. And part of that propaganda assault comes, again, from the state.

5) So whether or not I am "prejudiced" against police officers, my prejudice is not likely to harm them, and it has no institutionalized power behind it. My "prejudice" is simply my own lonely opinion. If I attempt to stand against a police officer, even in something as mild as refusing to give them my ID or sassing them, I will typically be sanctioned ALL OUT OF PROPORTION to my "offense".

6) OTOH, if a police officer wrongfully arrests me, even murders me, s/he is highly unlikely to be convicted, jailed, or lose his/her job.

With all that in mind, the comparison of "prejudice" against police to racism or other kinds of prejudice against minority groups (including political minorities, including class prejudice) is unbelievably ludicrous and shows how little thought people have given to what they're saying.

Yet there are always plenty of people to stick up for the rights of the powerful and make sure no one is "prejudiced" against the poor defenseless babies. Poor things.

[dkf]

35. How is it not prejudice if the proposal is to fire all of them?

Isn't that an assertion of power over a group?

I don't think you are following the thread. This isn't about having a bias and not being able to act upon it. This is about assuming they are all bad actors and firing them.

[HiPointDem]

36. Does the poster have any power to effect his suggestion? No.

[dkf]

37. The point is that the suggestion is just as prejudiced.

You are so anti police you can't even see the parallels.

[sabrina 1]

39. It is not prejudice. It is based on incident after incident of actual crimes committed by Police who

never, ever are held accountable for their crimes, no matter how egregious. There are good cops, but they do not speak out. The reaction to the police is the equivalent of the reaction to a dictatorship. Do you think people who demand an end to a brutal regime are the equivalent of racists? Police are no longer trusted by the people. They have abused their power, yes, not all of them, but a culture has set in that in their eyes, pits 'them' against 'us' and for us, that is dangerous as we see on a regular basis.

It's way past time for a complete overhaul of our civilian police. How do you feel about our so-called 'civilian' police training with the Bahrain and Israeli Border Patrol, both of whom have been condemned for human rights violations? The Civilian police have militarized, we do not need the military patrolling our streets, armed with military weapons, viewing the population as the enemy. And killing people like this veteran for no reason at all.

[HiPointDem]

40. Here's your original question, which I responded to: "Isn't this just as prejudiced as racism?"

I said, no, it's nothing like racism, & I explained why.

As for your new claim, that it's "just as prejudiced," here's the definition of prejudice:

prej·u·dice/ˈprejədəs/
Noun:
Preconceived opinion not based on reason or experience.


My statements about police are based both on reason and experience, as well as obvious facts (that the police work for the State, for example). They are not based on some irrational hatred of police as individuals, but on the structure and nature of power and police power in particular.

[MrBig]

12. "Not to worry IMO this one deserves more attention than one thread"

Exactly...well said.

[Ecumenist]

4. it's things like this that I was trying to explain to a certain DU'er why the situation

would have been UNIMAGINABLY different IF zimmy had been black and Trayvon white. That most black people have first hand experiences like this or in their families and I was told that it was impossible. Don't get me wrong because I LOVE MY COUNTRY but the face that America shows her lighter complected children is far kinder than the one she too often shows her browner ones.

[Mr Dixon]

16. IMO

Agreed

[Bandit]

5. I don't understand why the police were there at all.

I thought in a medical emergency EMTs would be sent to rescue and give medical attention to the person.. Why police and not emergency medical techs were sent is a mystery to me..

[NoMoreWarNow]

19. good point-- doesn't make sense

[randome]

6. 'Worse'? Really?

You really want to qualify one needless death over another? Your subject line is...unneeded.

[Bonobo]

8. Yes, I wrote exactly what I wanted... what I feel to be the truth.

It IS worse that police, who are supposed to be defenders of the law, protectors of citizens, would do such a thing.

An idiot murdering someone is one thing. A group of trained policemen with a badge and the protection of the law doing it with state-issued weapons is another,f ar worse thing on a societal level.

Sorry if you cannot see the bigger picture.

[NoMoreWarNow]

20. I agree

thanks for the post

[HiPointDem]

31. +1

[EFerrari]

9. Worse in the sense that the killers are agents of the state.

Although, Zimmerman seems to have the tacit agreement of local officials.

[NoMoreWarNow]

21. he has friends and relatives in high places

it seems

[EFerrari]

25. Yes and the public gets hypnotised by the mass media. nt

[EFerrari]

7. It's so painful to even consider.

Were these cops on drugs or something? How do you approach a man of that age so violently and in his own home? It's sickening, really.

[horseshoecrab]

14. It truly is sickening

EFerrari they may well have been on drugs -- but frankly, people who feel empowered to do anything when they're not being watched will do literally anything they feel like doing.

Maybe part of the answer is to have all police begin recording both audio and video when they answer any call? Any event not recorded - even routine answers to calls - subject to a thorough investigation?

I don't know if this is even feasible but I know that we can't allow this killing of innocents because of their skin color to go on. We just can't. People, especially people of color, need to be protected from the police.


horseshoecrab

[Burma Jones]

10. I used to live in Westchester County, NY

This does not surprise me at all, it was as racist (and more effectively racist) a place as I had ever lived and that includes the North Carolina, Virginia, Maryland, Louisiana, rural Illinois and Houston, TX. There is no hate quite like the hate that those that are barely getting by, say local police, have for those on public assistance. Westchester also has a huge income gap....

[EFerrari]

11. (Daily Kos) A Case Worse than Trayvon Martin's?

How could I even say something like that? What can be worse than to shoot and kill an unarmed teenager by a self-declared Neighborhood Watch guy hunting down a f*^ing c*^n right?

But I wonder after I heard the story of Kenneth Chamberlain, an unarmed African-American 68-year old veteran, (buried with military honors), who was unarmed and gunned down by real police officers inside his own apartment.

I urge you to listen to the what his son and the two attorneys for the Chamberlain family had to say this morning on Democracy Now. The video is below.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/29/1078841/-A-Case-Worse-than-Trayvon-Martin-s-

[MrBig]

13. A positive from the Trayvon Tragedy

It's bringing to light other stories that show racism is still alive and well in this country. People like to sweep it under the rug and pretend it doesn't exist anymore, but violence and hatred against people because of the color of their skin is still too prominent.

These stories are tragic, and the fact that no one hears about them only permits people to claim ignorance. If Trayvon's story brings this story to some light which brings other stories to light that show this racism still exists, then maybe, just maybe, something positive can come from all of this bloodshed and hatred.

[ogantbaby]

26. A positive from the Trayvon Tragedy is just the tip

Mr. Big you are sooo right but you're only hitting the tip of the problem and so many of us as well contribute to the problem. The hatred goes far beyond race being black & white, its between religion, sex, age, straight or gay. I've even heard my own mother saying comments against Israelis or middle eastern people and we're black. This has to stop from every side if America is going to begin to put an end to indifference not just racism. Indifference causes people to believe that they're better or inferior to others or that they deserve things others should not, or that certain things belong to them only and not others, or last that America belongs to a certain race of people and all others are guess. When things don't go the way people like this believe they should the ONLY outcome is anger, no matter what side you think you're on. And believe it or not but every nationality does this on some level or another, sometimes its within our own race. (Just in case you were wondering I am Black, born & raised in the US)

It starts with education, teaching kids and all others the different contributions every race, religion, male, female, straight or gay person has made to this country. The day we can accomplish this, indifference ends. We must love and except one another for what they are and recognize that we truly are the same and have the same rights to everything that another has and I'm not just talking about America. I'm not a religious person but I am a spiritual person and the bible says "love thy neighbor" and that "we are ALL brothers and sisters", it never put any boundaries on that statement such as race, state, country or whatever makes us different. The day we accomplish this is the day we take back our country from those few that want to control it.

[HiPointDem]

32. What use is education when real life teaches us a different message. No use saying

"We should all love each other!!!" when we can see in our lives that people DO NOT all love each other, and that our entire economic system ENFORCES that, REQUIRES it?

There's no use teaching people lies. Racism and all the other "isms" aren't just a matter of people having false beliefs because they haven't been "educated". It's not just about individual beliefs, it's about the way those beliefs are reinforced by actual practices and sometimes about the solace those beliefs offer for other wrongs.

[janedum]

15. America Exposed. This has been going on for YEARS.

Black men hunted down like animals ... FOR being black.
Amadou Diallo shot 41 times by police for nothing.
Sean Bell shot 50 times by police for nothing
Oscar Grant shot on a BART train for nothing.
ALL UNARMED and murdered while minding their own business.

[Mr Dixon]

18. SMH

It amazes me that people think this shit is new; it is not this has been a happing since I was a child, nothing has changed. Parents need to educate their kids that the police are, indoctrinated into some type “us against them war” By us I mean minorities and poor and soon to be poor white people. They are the guards of the castles (Gated community) be warned and beware.

[NoMoreWarNow]

22. yet conservatives will scream we're making a big deal out of racism just for publicity

and then go ahead and act like racists. Or better yet, if we call then on their racism, act like we are racist for making a big deal out of race.

[EFerrari]

24. Its not that it's new but that the brutality is shocking.

And, probably with television, kids were sold the idea of the policeman as the safe stranger.

[Rex]

17. I won't pit tragedies against each other.

BOTH are horrendous and wrong. I still cannot understand why the cops murdered this former marine. It makes no sense.

[Comrade Grumpy]

23. Where is the mass media on this?

The New York Times had one story earlier this month.

Two local newspapers had one story each earlier this month.

Local media has been pretty lazy with this, even the Times. It looks like, if not for the effort's of the man's family, not even this much would have been reported.

Killer cops, feeble press, bad combination.

[sakabatou]

29. He's a 68 year-old African-American

As if the media would give a sh*t about him.

>.>

[DiverDave]

33. Begging for his life, and they laugh...bastards

What is it with some people?
And why dont the "good cops" call out people like this?

I did find a good website with info about
police misconduct:
http://www.injusticeeverywhere.com/