The simple fact is that if Zimmerman hadn't had a weapon, no one would be dead.

[efhmc]

Slice it any second amendment way you want, but the probability is that there would have still been two live humans left after this horrible event if a firearm hadn't been so easily and readily available to the "Rambo" want to be, Zimmerman. Yes, guns do kill people.

[robinlynne]

1. Thank-you.

[flvegan]

2. (facepalm)

Simple fact? Or probability?

Then, since you were there, you could chime in on nobody being dead, regardless.

[Puzzledtraveller]

14. Noone would have been shot?

Dead is a different matter entirely.

[cherokeeprogressive]

3. You should edit "weapon" to read "gun". This IS after all, a Second Amendment/Guns post, isn't it?

And I'd say he wanted to be more like Steven Seagal than Rambo.

[shimonitanegi]

4. You got that right.

If Zimmerman hadn't had a loaded gun, he would most likely hesitate to pursue Martin.

[sabrina 1]

6. Exactly. Having that gun in his possession probably made him 'braver' than he would have

been without it. If he really thought Trayvon was a suspicious person, I think that without the gun, he would have waited the four minutes for the cops to get there and there would have been no fight, no killing and both of them would be going on with their lives.

It has definitely raised questions about who is walking around armed like this. Zimmerman had a record of violence and anger problems. But still had no problem acquiring a license. In many ways, for his own sake, it would have been so much better if the law had made it impossible for him to get that license.

One life gone, the other destroyed, and many other people's lives changed forever. All because of this need to carry a gun everywhere you go.

[Speck Tater]

5. Oh please don't start using logic.

You'll spoil everything for the conclusion jumpers.

On second thought, no you won't. They'll just go ahead and make up their own scenarios anyway.

[dkf]

7. And if nobody stole other people's stuff people wouldn't feel a need to patrol neighborhoods.

Maybe they wouldn't carry guns.

[Owlet]

9. Wouldn't?

or shouldn't?

[slampoet]

12. Hogwash. We have all seen Neighborhood Watches in areas where the crime rate is effectively zero.

I have seen them in one town that was less than 500 people and hadn't had a felony for 15 years.

[efhmc]

19. No one on our crime watch carried a gun. Most of us were stay at home moms

who watched for suspicious behavior. But that was about 20 years ago.

[joeybee12]

18. Maybe they should realize they're not the police and their role is simply to REPORT

anything suspicious.

[dkf]

31. Or maybe we should ignore suspicious people because it's easier.

Why even call the police? Better to stay out of it.

[Hoyt]

8. Exactly.

[moriah]

10. When guns take themselves out of the case....

... load the bullets in themselves, put themselves in a holster, walk themselves around out in the world and then decide to get up in somebody's business and then pull their own triggers, I'll agree with you.

There does need to be some way to fix it so that asshats like him don't have them. In Arkansas, he would not have qualified for a CHL because he chose a suspended sentence that included voluntary alcohol treatment -- if you've ever entered a facility, voluntarily or involuntarily, as an alcoholic or drug addict, you can't carry. Same goes if you've had inpatient mental health treatment. Also, he wouldn't have qualified because he had a restraining order against him.

Kinda surprising that a backwoods state like mine, where most people grow up with guns, has stricter laws than a state like Florida.

[left is right]

11. Back about 10 years ago Terry Gross on Fresh Air interviewed a prominent black leader

he said that as a kid he became afraid of the local gangs. Because he was afraid he avoided the areas that would put him in harms way. The story went on that at some point the fear became intolerable so he got a gun and carried it with him. The gun made him feel brave so he no longer avoided trouble but started to actively seek it out and then later trying to stir trouble up. He finished his story by saying that his mother found out about the gun and gave him a righteous beating over it. Looking back, he thanked God that she did take the gun from him because he knew in his heart that sooner or later he would have used the gun, killed another human being and ruin his own life

[efhmc]

16. What a powerful story.

[enough]

13. So simple.

I still mourn a young friend who was shot at 18 in a random shooting on a college campus. Over and over, that simple fact stares me in the face. If the angry confused unhappy kid who did the shooting years ago had not had a gun, several people would still be alive today, and several families would not have had to face devastation.

So simple.

[efhmc]

17. I am so sad to hear of the loss of your friend. There far too many of these tragedies.

[libtodeath]

15. Well stated!

[fascisthunter]

20. the obvious truth

[Major Hogwash]

21. What's even more unbelievable is that with his arrest record he had a concealed weapons permit.

I was astounded when I read that.
The guy has been involved with fights with the police and his girl friend and arrested for domestic violence several times.
It's just incredible.

[cbrer]

22. People are dangerous

As much as I agree with the OP title, out of all the things that can be a weapon to a dangerous person, a gun may simply be the most efficient.

The guns kill/people kill debate has been beaten, torn, and tossed about. All the "ifs" in the world won't replace sound judgement, and the golden rule. Something rejected by American Society up to this point, and into the foreseeable future.

[efhmc]

25. People are dangerous and can be deadly even without a gun. But imagine how hard it would have been

for the cowardly Zimmerman to take the life of a young man if he had no gun. It also would have been almost impossible to plea self defense since he is a much larger person.

[cbrer]

26. While I agree

That Zimmerman was a coward, and that he was told not to follow, and that nothing that kid did warranted a death sentence, I just want to point out that size has little to do with an ass kicking. Believe me...

It's remarkable and sad that we've evolved so little in terms of social enlightenment, that these acts continue to plague us.

[librechik]

23. Sshh, you don't want to upset the NRA with facts

[Initech]

24. Like I said yesterday:

You give a two-time convicted felon a firearm and what is essentially a free pass to declare himself judge, jury, and executioner - what the fuck do you expect is going to happen? In any other society - George Zimmerman would not have been able to obtain a firearm under any circumstances given his criminal history, but in this country where we might as well give live firearms as cereal toys, that's clearly not the case. Fuck the NRA - seriously.

[Control-Z]

27. Exactly!! -eom

[lunatica]

28. 99% of people who have guns never kill anyone

Zimmerman is not a typical example of people who carry guns.

And I'm not a gun fan.

[itsrobert]

29. So 1 out of 100 kill people?

That's a lot of killing going on.

[lunatica]

30. Yes. There are a lot of murders in this country

Not all of them entail guns and not all of them are done by people like Zimmerman. So is your point that if it weren't for guns no one would be killed?

[jimlup]

32. I know it isn't politically viable but I'm anti 2nd Amendment

Nobody has ever explained to me adequately how it applies to American society in 2012. I mean sure American in 1780's but not America in 2012... not even close...