OMG!! A witness was actually watching the struggle as the shot went off and turns out it was GZ on

[Ecumenist]

top!!! and the struggle WAS NOT ON THE SIDEWALK!!!! It's on John King NOW Anderson Cooper spoke to the witness

[hlthe2b]

1. I'm not following. Please clarify.

What did the witness see?

On edit, I see you added "on top." That is news. Who is this witness? A new one or just one who hadn't been on tv previously?

[Ecumenist]

6. The witness SAW THE STRUGGLE THAT ENDED IN TRAYVON'S DEATH!

He didn't see the flash but he was watching and heard the shot. He said that GZ just got up and walked away, appearing nervous and putting his hands on his forehead.

[Lilyeye]

98. Another female witnessed mentioned that Zimmerman had his hands up as well.

[Ecumenist]

100. Mary Cutcher and her roomie. She's the one that was insistent that the screams she heard weren't

those of a grown man but a young boy.

[Ecumenist]

13. It's a previously unknown, (TO THE PUBLIC) witness.

[robinlynne]

109. if you listen to all the 911 calls, there is agirl who called 911, whose brothe was outside watching

the struggle. he ran inside when the shot was fired.

they can be found on the sanford city page.

[CatWoman]

2. ok, E

calm down.

Can you try one more time? What happened now?

[qanda]

4. I had to read it a few times also

They were saying it turns out GZ was on top of Trayvon and the struggle was in the grass and not on the sidewalk as Zimmerman has previously stated.

[Cali_Democrat]

7. That certainly explains why GZ had no grass stains on him.

[1StrongBlackMan]

16. Has anyone check ...

MARTIN'S clothes for grass stains on the back? That would answer the "who was on top" question.

[Cali_Democrat]

25. The incompetent (corrupt?) Sanford police should have taken pictures

as evidence.

But knowing them, they probably botched that as well.

[awoke_in_2003]

27. No question mark needed. nt

[TrollBuster9090]

57. It's absolutely impossible for any law enforcement officer to be that incompetent.

The investigation wasn't 'botched.' They didn't do an investigation, they just took Zimmerman's word for it because they didn't care, and didn't want the hassle. They wrote down his side of the story, assumed it was probably true, then rushed Trayvon's body off to be drug tested hoping to find drugs in his system. If there were drugs in his system, that would have been the end of it as far as they were concerned. Open and shut case of a drugged up black teenaged boy getting in to a gated community looking for stuff to steal.

The sad fact is that African American teenaged boys get gunned down every day, and most of the police "investigations" are about as detailed as this. This is just business as usual in most police departments.

THEN they found out he had no drugs in his system, he was actually STAYING in that neighborhood at the time (NOT just sneaking in to steal stuff while high on drugs), didn't show any signs of a struggle, had TWO PARENTS who both CARED enough about him to not just let this be swept under the carpet...then it went viral in the social media....and then they had their "OH..SHIT" moment.

That's when all the "leaking" and "smearing" started. That entire police department is obviously shitting their pants right now. What Zimmerman did was bad enough, but the actions of the police and the state attourney are far worse, and there are a lot more laws that come in to play for them than for Zimmerman.

[Cali_Democrat]

58. Well said. n/t

[A Simple Game]

62. "What Zimmerman did was bad enough,

but the actions of the police and the state attourney are far worse"? I'm not defending their actions, but how many people died because of the actions of the police and state attorney?

[robinlynne]

77. I think you miss the big picture. Zimmerman committed a hate crime. But the police and DA

by covering it up, and treating the hate crime as not important create the condiyions whereby hate crimes happen all over the country every day. In other words times 1000 what Zimmerman did.
Zimmerman felt he would not be in trouble for killing a black boy, and he WAS NOT arrested. because of that 10 more Zimmermans will do the same thing.

[A Simple Game]

85. You know what, if there were no Zimmermans, there would be

less need for police and state attorneys.

If there were no corrupt police and state attorneys, would there still be Zimmermans?

Zimmerman probably killed Trayvon in cold blood, the others did not.

[MADem]

115. If police and state attorneys didn't cover up hate crimes against young black men, then people

wouldn't be so comfortable shooting them like it's open season on teens of color.

If you know the cops have your back, you're going to be a bit more comfortable pulling that kind of shit.

Remember Emmett Till? The people that killed him KNEW they could get away with it, before they even grabbed that kid. And the did get away with it, didn't they?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmett_Till

On September 23 the jury acquitted both defendants after a 67-minute deliberation; one juror said, "If we hadn't stopped to drink pop, it wouldn't have taken that long."[69]

[Aerows]

89. When justice is derailed

Everyone suffers. How many people have died because of the actions of the police and state attorney? We'll never know, because we'll never know how many times they have done something similar prior to this incident.

[A Simple Game]

110. No we will never know how many people died because of poor police and attorneys.

Could be a lot, could be none. The truth is I don't know and you admit you don't and never will know. To equate someone that maybe, just maybe abetted a crime before or after the fact to the person that pulled the trigger is something I can't do.

I know what you are trying to point out, but it is not worse, it is not even equal. The problem to me is not so much with the condoning of a crime by authorities as it is with the parenting and peers that put the idea in their heads to start with.

[Aerows]

111. I disagree with this statement

The problem to me is not so much with the condoning of a crime by authorities as it is with the parenting and peers that put the idea in their heads to start with.

If you are granted power beyond that of ordinary citizens, such as these people are, you have a responsibility to not use such power for personal gain or for cronyism.

It IS abetting a crime if you knowingly cover one up, or if you usurp the justice system. We must all do our duties as discerning and just members of society.

If you disagree with that idea, then honestly, I think you have an agenda that precludes you from seeking truth, and instead marks you as a person that has an agenda of personal gain, rather than keeping the integrity of the justice department in good standing.

[A Simple Game]

112. I don't disagree with your statement.

But if you think a corrupt cop or attorney will cause a well raised morally good child to go out and shoot another person once they become an adult, so be it, I doubt I could change your mind.

And if you think covering up for a crime is equal to pulling the trigger, so be it, I doubt I could change your mind about that either. But I know who I am blaming for Trayvon's death, and it isn't the cops.

[Aerows]

113. Once again

I think you miss my point.

" if you think a corrupt cop or attorney will cause a well raised morally good child to go out and shoot another person once they become an adult"

A corrupt cop or attorney that has powers that exceed that of normal citizens can not only cover up the murder, rape or other violence against another person, adult or otherwise, they can also cause innocents to be executed for crimes they didn't commit simply because they manipulate evidence.

Innocent people HAVE been found after the fact to be innocent after their execution. While I admit that there is no evidence in this case of that YET, their lax standards of justice place the citizens that pay their salaries via tax dollars in peril.

When the justice system is corrupt, there is no justice and someone must be the person that says "I'm the line and it stops here." If there is no one to say it, there is no line, there is no justice, and committing crimes against people not only becomes possible, it becomes institutional.

[WeekendWarrior]

105. More people die

when law enforcement gives people like Zimmerman a pass and thus condone his actions. Their refusal to do their jobs has far-reaching consequences, one of which is coming to light through all the people who seem to think it's okay to shoot a young black man because he was wearing a hoodie. All you have to do is claim self-defense.

[Canuckistanian]

64. I think your version is probably the most correct

Now let's see if the justice system can even come CLOSE to this same conclusion.

I'm not holding out for this resolution.

[robinlynne]

76. I read there were no photos of the crime scene.

[Ecumenist]

26. That part I don't know. I suspect that will be presented once the autopsy

and the reasons that they are charging GZ are.

[MADem]

114. My, my! Stop making sense, now! You'll upset the status quo!

I'll bet that hoodie could be used in a TIDE commercial...

[Ecumenist]

8. YES!!!!!!

[Ecumenist]

47. Yes!

[Ecumenist]

12. Okay. Anderson Cooper interviewed this particular witness who SAW THE ENTIRE FINAL STRUGGLE!

The one on the top was GZ NOT Trayvon!

[CatWoman]

21. wonder what Joe Oliver has to say about this???

[Ecumenist]

24. I wonder what he has to say about this myself. I have a feeling that we might just be

nearing the end of his particular clown car.

[politicasista]

36. His 15 minutes of fame have to end sooner or later

Roland Martin wanted to take him to the woodshed. He is an embarrassment.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

68. Haven't seen much of Joe since the police station video was released

He's been all over MSNBC. Today, not so much.

[CatWoman]

72. that's cause he's trying to cash that check before the stop payment is issued

[robinlynne]

78. I'll bet these witnesses told the police what they saw on that day.

[qanda]

3. Wow!

Arrest GZ right now!

[Cali_Democrat]

5. amen

[Ecumenist]

10. I knew it, I knew it.

[grasswire]

9. who is this witness?

?

[Ecumenist]

11. He's anonymous for now. They even changed his voice for his protection but he's given his

info to the appropriate authorities!

[hlthe2b]

14. Thank heavens... I just hope there is no way for his credibility to be put in question...

THis sounds like what we've been waiting for.

[Ecumenist]

15. He's going to go into a more in depth interview on his show tonight.

[Ecumenist]

17. Actually, it makes the video make sense now. That's why there's no blood on his clothes.

[TrollBuster9090]

59. I'm only guessing but I think it might be the other guy on the 911 phone call

Remember the woman who called 911 where you can hear Trayvon screaming in the background. Obviously the event took place very close to their house, or you wouldn't be able to hear it over the phone. Then you can hear her telling a man to "get down" and get away from the window. Then, while she's still on the phone she describes seeing men with flashlights etc.

I figure it's either the woman herself or the man she was talking to that saw most of it. And the fact that his voice is on the 911 call gives credibility to the idea that he wasn't just some random person who didn't see anything coming forward and pretending to be an eye witness. He was already KNOWN to be a witness.

[Ecumenist]

61. Yeah it did, take place close to their home. You're probably correct. It's the person

who claimed that he heard GZ asking for help. But he said that based on the way things happened, he thinks now that it was Trayvon and h described the fact that after the "larger" hispanic man got up after shooting the other person, he realised that the one lying deceased face down was a "boy", (his words).

[Blue_Roses]

90. Yes, I heard that while listening to the tapes. He also

told the 911 dispatcher that he thought the guy was dead. He had to be watching it. He sounded very alarmed. I need to hear that again

[Fawke Em]

93. That was a different tape than the one with the

woman on the phone and a man in the background.

The one you're talking about is a man only.

[Ecumenist]

95. Isn't it disgustingly obvious what this "man" meant to do AND did?

And his family has the nerve to continue to lie...SMDH

[robinlynne]

79. there were 8 911 calls. there are probably several witnesses who at least heard everything.

[RebelOne]

18. Why is this witness just coming forward? It has been over a month. n/t

[Ecumenist]

19. Apparently, he's not just come forward. We're just finding out about him.

Remember, there are alot of these witnesses who weren't contacted even though they called to give their information.

[grasswire]

20. so how did his head get bashed on cement?

if the struggle was never on the sidewalk?

Last night daddy said that George tried to drag the struggle to the grass (off the sidewalk).

[Ecumenist]

22. EXACTLY...IT DIDN'T!! Explains why it doesn't appear to look as if that happened

to GZ.

[Ecumenist]

23. I wonder if he said that because he had a heads up about this witness telling his story

about what he saw...

[K8-EEE]

28. Doesn't this make it seem like Judge Daddy is lying to cover up

the inconsistencies that he knew would come out in the story?

[Ecumenist]

31. Yep, it does. Considering that this makes 3 witnesses who say that GZ was ON TOP

of Trayvon, do you think there's a chance he was shot IN THE BACK?

[USArmyParatrooper]

33. It's possible.

In a fight the natural (but wrong) reaction of the person the bottom tends to be trying to roll over so they're not on their back.

[Ecumenist]

35. Considering the EXTREMELY SHORT period of time between the shot and when mary Cutcher

went out with her Roomie to see GZ straddling Trayvon's body, I am really beginning to wonder if he shot that boy in his back...

[USArmyParatrooper]

39. I'm not sure what that has to do with it.

He could have been straddling Trayvon's body either way.

[Ecumenist]

42. The reason I ask the question is because according to at least 3 witnesses, Trayvon was face down

and they immediately went outside to see what happened. Tray;s hands were under his body, this is according to these 3 witnesses and GZ was straddling him with his hands on his back.

[USArmyParatrooper]

44. If true (and I'm not doubting it)

the eye witness accounts would dramatically increase the chance he was shot in the back. If he was, Zimmerman is screwed.

Personally I think he's screwed either way. I've been saying from the beginning that Manslaughter would be the most likely charge. I still stand by that. I don't know what the maximum penalty is for that in Florida, but it would be in the order of tens of years.

[Ecumenist]

46. That's what I'm saying. I don;t understand how he could have shot him in the chest

and then "flipped" the body over , neatly, or at least completely placing his hands under the body in the time between the shot and when Mary Cutcher and her roomie made it outside to see GZ straddling Trayvon with his hands on HIS BACK!

[Aerows]

91. And after flipping over a body with a gaping chest wound

Show up at the police department 35 minutes later without an ounce of blood on him.

[Ecumenist]

96. BAM! Aerows, this is what I was saying from the beginning. How could he not have

even staining if he had either been under Trayvon or flipped the body?

[Aerows]

102. I don't see a way

And frankly, considering that he had no blood on him at all, I suspect Zimmerman was standing away from him when he shot him. When people get shot, there is blood and tissue flying around. I have to believe if you shot an unarmed person in self-defense, that person was at close enough range that you are going to get some blood on you.

Unless, of course, they are fleeing FROM you, you are pursuing them on foot, and pull the trigger because you don't want them to "get away".

How close was Trayvon to his home? If he was pretty close to his home, Zimmerman could have misinterpreted it as him "breaking in", but hell, that doesn't warrant gunning somebody down, either. I didn't think even the police could shoot a suspect in the back that is fleeing.

Maybe Zimmerman accidentally pulled the trigger. In any case, it's still his fault because he had the poor judgment to chase after someone without cause - and there is no cause whatsoever if you don't see them doing something wrong - and with a gun.

The last thing we need as a society is people running around gunning people down because they "think" they might be guilty, and the last thing we need is for people to get away with that behavior.

[Ecumenist]

103. There are several witnesses who say they heard 2 gunshots. Now, if what you propose is true,

is it possible that he shot that poor boy in the bak to knock him down, Could that have been those agonising screams?

[Aerows]

107. I don't know

But I DO know there are a LOT of things about this entire case, and Zimmerman's story that make absolutely no sense based on what we the public have seen, mainly the fact that he's pleading self-defense, there's no blood on him at all, and a 17 year old is dead.

[robinlynne]

80. Why would the charge be manslaughter, and not murder?

[leftynyc]

87. Intent

Prosecutors would have to prove his intention was to kill Mr. Martin and not just wound him. That's a tough charge to make stick in the best of circumstances.

[MagickMuffin]

40. Could this witness tell if Trayvon was facing upward or lying face down?

In one of the police reports it states Trayvon was lying face down with his hands underneath him. How could GZ feel threatened if this is how Trayvon was shot

[Ecumenist]

43. Yes, he saw GZ on top of trayvon and when Gz got up after shooting trayvon,

Trayvon was face down in the grass.

[MagickMuffin]

52. Well it sure appears that GZ "wasn't going to let him get away" and that GZ went a hunting

for a "f____ing _oo_" fill in the blanks however you feel is the appropriate "term of endearment"

Sorry for appearing insensitive, not my intention but this just seems like the mindset of these "players" in this terrible tragic event.

[Ecumenist]

53. Honey, that' quite alright, you're not doing anything but telling the truth.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

48. The funeral director could answer that pronto.

I'm guessing they are going to have possibly exume the body
if the current autopsy doesn't address all these questions.

Those poor parents.

[Bluerthanblue]

56. an article I read today said that the funeral director couldn't

tell which was an entrance or exit wound, because of the autopsy. I'm sure the autopsy report would state this though.

[magical thyme]

49. more than a possibility. witness says he was shot in the back

per latest news report.

[Ecumenist]

50. WOA....ARE YOU SERIOUS? I KNEW it, I KNEW It, I KNEW IT!

Where did you hear this, Magical THyme?

[magical thyme]

55. yes, I'm serious. link below

and the article is linked in Latest Breaking News of same title


http://www.reddingnewsreview.com/newspages/2012newspages/new_witness_confirms_trayvon_mar_12_1000044.htm

NEW WITNESS CONFIRMS TRAYVON MARTIN WAS THE VICTIM

By Staff


ATLANTA, March 29, 2012, 6:47 p.m. - CNN is set to report tonight that Trayvon Martin was topped and then shot in the back by George Zimmerman, according to emails sent to the press.


I was sure, too. I wrote earlier today I'd be willing to bet on it.

[intheflow]

75. I don't think GZ shot him while he was on the kid's back.

Because surely he would have had some blood splatter on his shirt if he'd been point-blank, and there doesn't appear to be blood anywhere on him in that video of him at the police station. I'd like to see what the autopsy report says before speculating - though at this point even an autopsy might turn out to be suspicious if it somehow vindicated GZ, due to the apparent cronyism and corruption in Seminole County.

God, I hate being so cynical.

[Aerows]

92. At this point

How could you avoid being cynical? This whole situation has been a string of either gross incompetence or malicious corruption. There's not much room in the middle for it to be anything BUT those two situations, and is more likely to be a combination of the two.

[karynnj]

38. Not necessarily - the father had no first hand independent information

He was not there. It may be that he is lying, making stuff up - or he is repeating what his son told him - and, in spite of his background as a judge, he did not question anything his son said - in spite of the obvious difficulties. This is a case where he should NOT have been given a platform - all he was was a father defending his son - maybe in denial at what a monster he was in this instance.

[magical thyme]

51. and what about prior arrests when he got his son off?

"maybe in denial at what a monster he was in this instance."

don't forget there is a history of son getting in trouble, include assaulting a cop, and father getting him off.

[karynnj]

74. I'm not saying the denial is logical or reasonable

- or that it was the first time. It has to be really hard for someone who is himself considered a responsible member of society to accept that their child is extremely troubled.

[magical thyme]

84. oh I agree, I'm sure it is difficult

But you would think at some point he'd realize it's not the world that's wrong, it's his kid. You'd think that with his history of people accusing him of violence, that when it escalated to someone dying he might wake up. Instead of hearing hate when Obama said if he had a son, he'd look like Trayvon....

However hard it is, people do need eventually to face reality. Especially people in positions of such responsibility. Hate to think of this guy as a judge, of all things....

[warrior1]

29. is this the video?

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2012/03/29/ac-trayvon-martin-witness-not-hurt.cnn

[Ecumenist]

30. Is what in what video?

[Glimmer of Hope]

34. Whoever that was says that Zimmerman didn't appear hurt after the shot.

[Ecumenist]

37. No, it's was a heretofore unknown(to the public) witness that saw the final struggle.

Anderson Cooper spoke to this witness. More in depth on Anderson Cooper At 5 pacific/8 eastern.

[Glimmer of Hope]

41. Should be interesting. I hope this is streaming somewhere.

[Ecumenist]

45. If you can, tune into AndersonCooper and it will probably stream after the show if you

don't have cable.

[warrior1]

32. the video of the witness interview

[WillyT]

54. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[malaise]

60. Arrest the murderer

NOW!

[Liberal_in_LA]

63. story has so many twists and turns

[slackmaster]

65. Tomorrow there will be some kind of surprise revelation that ponts to Zimmerman's innocence

The media have to do something every day to keep up the momentum.

It's a LOOOOONG time until April 10, the earliest date that the grand jury MIGHT start looking at the case.

[Ecumenist]

67. Only because the liars tried to make sure that only what they wanted to say

and wanted the world to know to try to create a cover for babyzimmy. Now that the truth is coming out and has completely contradicted their story, it seemed like twists and turns but it's just the truth clearing things up.

[robinlynne]

81. exactly!

[randome]

66. Why is ANYONE giving fucking interviews??

Doesn't anyone think AHEAD? A good defense attorney can claim his client can't get a fair trial and a change of venue, delays and even a mistrial can result.

NO ONE should be giving public interviews no matter how well disguised their identities.

[Ecumenist]

69. BOTH sides are doing it but I'm sure that there's alot that isn't coming out

it's not the best situation but it started with zimmy's side.

[randome]

70. Respectfully, it doesn't matter who started it.

The burden of proof is on the prosecution side and if a jury or a judge can be convinced that Zimmerman can't get a fair trial, that's one more hurdle to be overcome.

There have been far too many hurdles already.

[Ecumenist]

71. This isn't the first time this has happened. To a certain extent, it began with Rodney King

and has happened with EVERY high profile case ever since.

[robinlynne]

83. i only see Trayvon's fmaily asking for justice. I ahve not heard them amking up stories about what

did and did not happen. they are simply telling the truth. Our son was killed. the police need to arrest the man who did it.

[stranger81]

73. I'd ordinarily agree with that

But in this case, (1) a change of venue motion is already a virtual certainty if this case is ever filed; and (2) without substantial publicity around eyewitness accounts contradicting Zimmerman's self-serving version of events, there's never going to be a prosecution or a trial.

[robinlynne]

82. That may be exactly why they're doing it.

[morningfog]

86. Zimmerman still hasn't been arrested. This is a way to foment public pressure for

at least an attempt at justice. If people hadn't been talking to the media, the grand jury and the feds may have never taken notice.

[Aerows]

88. The Sanford Police Department

Isn't competent enough to investigate the case of a kid with his hand in the cookie jar and chocolate chips smeared all over his face.

They'd probably arrest the cookie jar.

[Ecumenist]

94. LOL!! that's so true. After all, the cookie jar is responsible for making the cookies available

to tempt that poor, innocent psychopath.

[just1voice]

97. Surely it must be true if Anderson Cooper and Nancy Grace say it is, LOL.

Of course it could actually be true despite media whores allowing it to flow from their constantly flapping lips.

[Ecumenist]

101. Of course. You do know that we can always tell by what you say right away.

[the moon is fake]

99. Unless someone actually saw what PRECEDED the shooting, it's still not proof of anything.

Another witness saw Trayvon on top and yelled for him to quit it. He went inside to call the police but before he could, shots rang out and when he looked out the window, GZ was over Tray's body

But since you like these news stories, here's one from yesterday evening during RUSH HOUR (not middle of the night) on the South Side of Chicago. Actually, there was more than one shooting, but this one wounded five and killed one in a convenience store. The two thug shooters WORE HOODIES! Imagine that! I never heard of criminals doing so! http://www.suntimes.com/11613495-417/two-killed-11-wounded-in-thursday-shootings.html

So I am awaiting the instructions from Operation Push on where the rally will be held for these poor victims. As President Dreamboat instructed, I'm gonna put on my marching shoes...

[grasswire]

104. live it up, troll n/t

[ceile]

106. Only thing to do is laugh.

Enjoy your stay.

[librechik]

108. oh how sweet--you learned our smileys already

bless your heart--

Goodbye!