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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSouth Florida student says teacher won't let him read Bible in class
LAUDERDALE LAKES, Fla. -
Giovanni Rubeo, a fifth-grade student at Park Lakes Elementary School in Lauderdale Lakes, said Monday he wants to be able to read his Bible during free reading period in class.
"The Bible gives you a lot of wisdom, especially the Book of Prophets," Giovanni told WPLG-TV.
Giovanni said his teacher won't let him, even leaving a voicemail for his father.
"I noticed that he has a book -- a religious book -- in the classroom," his teacher said in the voicemail. "He's not permitted to read those books in my classroom."
A letter from the school's principal said he can read his Bible before and after school and during lunch, which the Rubeo family said violates their civil rights.
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/south-florida-student-says-teacher-wont-let-him-read-bible-in-class/25840672?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
dilby
(2,273 posts)he should be able to read his book.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Broward school officials rejected the accusation, saying the student wasnt asking to read the Bible during a free-reading session but during a classroom accelerated reading program. The district says it allows Bibles to be included in free-reading periods this just wasnt one of them.
In a statement, the Broward school district said it respects and upholds the rights of students to bring personal religious materials to school, including the Bible, and to read these items before school, after school or during any free reading time during the school day. This information has been communicated to the parents of the student involved in this situation.
Representing the Rubeo family is the Liberty Institute, which bills itself as the largest legal organization dedicated solely to defending and restoring religious liberty in America. The conservative group launched a similar protest against a Texas school district last month in that instance, it was a second-grader who was allegedly not allowed to read the Bible.
The Texas school district also said it could not substantiate that the Bible incident really happened. Also last month, a Central Florida school district found no evidence of another Liberty Institute complaint alleging that a school official told a 5-year-old girl to stop praying during lunch.
Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/05/05/4099850/group-charging-schools-with-religious.html#storylink=cpy
Keefer
(713 posts)"A letter from the school's principal said he can read his Bible before and after school and during lunch, which the Rubeo family said violates their civil rights."
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)reading times.
The child was not in a free reading time when told to put the book away. I think you miss the point.
Ms. Toad
(34,087 posts)The article is not specific as to when the child was told to put the book away. He says he wants to be able to read it during free reading time - but the letter and voice mail from the school to his parents said he could only read it during lunch, before, and after school.
The school board statement included free reading time. No indication, though, about whether the school board statement was issued after the incident - or as a reminder to a misbehaving school/teacher.
If their assertions are correct (that he was told he could not read it during free reading time), that's a problem - and the school/teacher should apologize.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)You'll see a lot of the articles put "free reading" in quotation marks because they're choosing to interpret it that way to promote their agenda, but it was a period where kids could pick their own books to read - only so long as those books were part of the Accelerated Reader program. That isn't precisely "free reading" time. The family, and some news organizations apparently, are distorting the truth by not making that clear.
The following article includes that information. I don't know if other news organizations are intentionally not explaining it or were just lazy and got the story from someone else who left it out.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/05/06/4101611/broward-schools-runcie-says-bible.html
Ms. Toad
(34,087 posts)I was going by the article linked to - which described it essentially as a conflict between policy and implementation.
But even the article you linked to includes a quote which makes me wonder what actually went on, "A voicemail left by Giovannis teacher last month further fueled the controversy. A recording of the message, which was left for Giovannis father, includes the teacher stating I noticed that he has a book a religious book in the classroom. Hes not permitted to read those books in my classroom.
If that is a transcription of the voice mail (as opposed to a paraphrase), that would seem to support the family's version. I'd be pissed too if my daughter was barred from reading a book during free reading period just because the teacher didn't approve of its content. I can just hear the phone message - which would likely get rapid condemnation on DU: "I noticed that she has a book a lesbian book in the classroom. Shes not permitted to read those books in my classroom.
Although I don't support their current request (that he be allowed to read a book not on the accelerated reading list during accelerated reading), it still isn't clear to me what happened initially,and even if it is - the teacher's message (again, if it is a transcript) is troubling.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)on this thread, and which is more fully-fleshed, delving into the outright lying that is going on.
The school was specific as to when the Bible was not allowed--- during the accelerated reading time.
My suggestion to you is that you read the helpful article that el_bryanto provided, which debunks the family's claims.
The voicemail will be problematic legally
.
"I noticed that he has a book -- a religious book -- in the classroom," his teacher said in the voicemail. "He's not permitted to read those books in my classroom."
.
It refers to no assigned reading times and instead points out the personal view of the teacher herself with the 'no religious books in MY classroom'. It didn't refer to the student actually reading the book, only 'I NOTICED he has a book'. So outwardly it would appear a pre-emptive attempt from the teacher that he cannot bring the book at all even for lunchtime or free reading times.
Ms. Toad
(34,087 posts)but in terms of assessing which party is telling the truth, it supports the family's contention (based on your last sentence - which is the same way I interpret it).
The only two voices from the actual incident I have seen reported are the teacher's (making a general ban on religious books), and the student's - saying he was prohibited from reading the book during free reading time. Everyone else is giving their interpretation of an event at which they were not present.
Going forward, the school board has made their policy clear - that the Bible may be read during free reading time. Whatever happened in the past, that is an appropriate position for the school to take. The teacher may - or may not - have been implementing that policy prior to this incident.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Dorian Gray
(13,501 posts)that explains that.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)There's some church in my area that has everyone who goes to the church carry Bibles around with them everywhere. I do mean everywhere. My daughter has talked about a few kids in her school who carry their Bibles around to every class. The area this happened at is very likely more religious than where I am, and I would be surprised if a teacher found it so unusual for a student to have a Bible. I guess I'm suspicious about this. Was he reading it out loud or otherwise disrupting class time? Reading it when they're doing other class work? People pushing for religion in schools sometimes misrepresent what actually happened.
exboyfil
(17,865 posts)Facebook for months. The ACLU and other organizations have published a document which covers this issue.
1. Students have the right to pray individually or in groups or to discuss their religious views with their peers so long as they are not disruptive. Because the Establishment Clause does not apply to purely private speech, students enjoy the right to read their Bibles or other scriptures
https://www.aclu.org/religion-belief/joint-statement-current-law-religion-public-schools
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)he did read the Bible in class just to get the reaction that they wanted. In other words, someone put him up to it.
Laf.La.Dem.
(2,944 posts)el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)From the Miami Herald.
My guess is that during accelerated reading time you are required to read from an approved reading list.
Bryant
charmay
(525 posts)Certain books were marked that the student would read and then take a computerized test. I think that the test was part of their reading grade.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2 male and female created he them; Mt. 19.4 · Mk. 10.6 and blessed them, Gen. 1.27, 28 and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
3 And Adam lived a hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:
4 and the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
5 and all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
6 ¶ And Seth lived a hundred and five years, and begat Enos:
7 and Seth lived after he begat Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters:
8 and all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died.
9 ¶ And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Ca-i'nan:
10 and Enos lived after he begat Ca-i'nan eight hundred and fifteen years, and begat sons and daughters:
11 and all the days of Enos were nine hundred and five years: and he died.
12 ¶ And Ca-i'nan lived seventy years, and begat Mahal'aleel:
13 and Ca-i'nan lived after he begat Mahal'aleel eight hundred and forty years, and begat sons and daughters:
14 and all the days of Ca-i'nan were nine hundred and ten years: and he died.
15 ¶ And Mahal'aleel lived sixty and five years, and begat Jared:
16 and Mahal'aleel lived after he begat Jared eight hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters:
17 and all the days of Mahal'aleel were eight hundred ninety and five years: and he died.
18 ¶ And Jared lived a hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:
19 and Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
20 and all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.
21 ¶ And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methu'selah:
22 and Enoch walked with God after he begat Methu'selah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
23 and all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
24 and Enoch Heb. 11.5 walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
25 ¶ And Methu'selah lived a hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech:
26 and Methu'selah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters:
27 and all the days of Methu'selah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.
28 ¶ And Lamech lived a hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son:
29 and he called his name Noah, 6 saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.
30 And Lamech lived after he begat Noah five hundred ninety and five years, and begat sons and daughters:
31 and all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died.
32 ¶ And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
What does a 500 year old man look like anyway?
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)sweetloukillbot
(11,068 posts)Don't recall that being included...
Ms. Toad
(34,087 posts)to the prophetic chapters in the Bible (Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi)
left is right
(1,665 posts)2 decades. I have never heard anyone refer to these individual books as the book of the prophets. Book of Isaiah...yes; book of Jeremiah...yes. Even the tiny book of Obadiah. If the kid cant get this right when asked about reading the Bible, I would say that this is probably more about fred Phelps litigation than real violation of religious liberty
Ms. Toad
(34,087 posts)for my entire life - and it is a familiar reference to me.
From Judaism, Catholics, Methodist (a slight variation - Four Profits Major and Twelve Prophets Minor)
It is part of the standard classification scheme for grouping books in the bible
It has been a long time since I have opened a Bible - but I seem to recall those groupings from the bible my church gave me when I turned 12.
That says nothing about the motives of the family - just that the reference the child used is not an indication that he doesn't have a clue about the Bible - quite the contrary.
sweetloukillbot
(11,068 posts)Maybe the reporter got it wrong - I wouldn't be surprised. But I wouldn't say I like "the book of Prophets" - I'd say I like the book of Micah, or the prophetic books.
Ms. Toad
(34,087 posts)The major prophets are only 4-5 books.
And - it's expecting a lot of a 10 year old to base your skepticism that he is actually reading the bible on the fact that he doesn't phrase it precisely the way you would (especially when there is a lot of variation among very well educated religious folks about the precise phrasing).
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Broward school officials rejected the accusation, saying the student wasnt asking to read the Bible during a free-reading session but during a classroom accelerated reading program. The district says it allows Bibles to be included in free-reading periods this just wasnt one of them.
In a statement, the Broward school district said it respects and upholds the rights of students to bring personal religious materials to school, including the Bible, and to read these items before school, after school or during any free reading time during the school day. This information has been communicated to the parents of the student involved in this situation.
Representing the Rubeo family is the Liberty Institute, which bills itself as the largest legal organization dedicated solely to defending and restoring religious liberty in America. The conservative group launched a similar protest against a Texas school district last month in that instance, it was a second-grader who was allegedly not allowed to read the Bible.
The Texas school district also said it could not substantiate that the Bible incident really happened. Also last month, a Central Florida school district found no evidence of another Liberty Institute complaint alleging that a school official told a 5-year-old girl to stop praying during lunch.
Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/05/05/4099850/group-charging-schools-with-religious.html#storylink=cpy
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)Thanks for adding that.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)tammywammy
(26,582 posts)Skip Intro
(19,768 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)gollygee
(22,336 posts)It was accelerated reading time. The schools here do that and there are specific books that are a part of it. He had to read an AR (accelerated reader) book. My daughter often had to put one book aside to pick up an AR book for school. This isn't uncommon, and it being a Bible doesn't make it a different issue.
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)nt
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Very popular and in use by many school districts. It's supposed to increase students' reading levels.
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)nt
immoderate
(20,885 posts)"I think the bible should be among the books you choose for elective reading. What else are you reading?"
True story: I caught a student reading his bible in a class I was teaching. I had him turn to Ecclesiastes 3. I invited him to read aloud. The chapter starts with:
To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted
At which I said, "Get it?" (And I later signed him up for extra help.)
--imm
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)Join The Byrds? LOL!
immoderate
(20,885 posts)--imm
DemocraticWing
(1,290 posts)I'll show myself out.
msongs
(67,441 posts)charmay
(525 posts)Using children to fuel their agenda. Now they can send out emails trashing public schools and teachers.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)She was having discipline issues, so I told her that when she had nothing to do, she should read. I gave her a copy of Cujo, because that's what she wanted to read.
The teacher was upset at the subject, but mostly upset at the fact that she was reading during math time. Turns out, he'd allocated 105 minutes for math (test prep) and she'd finished in less than five minutes.
Out of the thousands of teachers I've known -- many of them quite well -- that dbag is among the bottom five. People who don't function well with alteration or deviation, who are too rigid, usually don't make good teachers.
knitter4democracy
(14,350 posts)AR, Accelerated Reader, is a system in which students read books off a list and then take computer tests on the books to prove that they read them carefully. The Bible's not on it for good reason (which translation, which books in it, what grade level, and what kind of questions could we ask?).
Also, there is no Book of Prophets. He obviously hasn't been reading it if he thinks that's a book. Is he thinking of Proverbs?
exboyfil
(17,865 posts)Some of the books are 1 & 2 Peter, Hebrews, Ezekiel, and Isaiah.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)You have to read the translation that has that rating, but also each child has to read books of a specific rating - one that challenges them a bit but not too much. Then after they master that rating they move up.
knitter4democracy
(14,350 posts)Those books are not easy to read. If you don't pass the AR test, you're supposed to re-read the book and then take the test again. If the kid really thinks there's a Book of Prophets (I really hope that's a misquote), I'm going with the teacher on moving him in a different direction.
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)Then let them read whatever they want. Maybe this kid already read most of those other books, and has time to read the bible. Just so long as they don't real aloud, or start preaching at school, and they can pass their reading tests, who cares. It's a shame this kid is wasting time reading that book of fantasy.
840high
(17,196 posts)read - I don't care.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)You have to read books of a particular rating - one that challenges you a bit but not too much - and when you master that level, you move on to a higher rating. So if he passes the test for that level, he'd have other books to choose from for another level. It still wouldn't be actual free reading time.
Ilsa
(61,698 posts)So they can better understand school books and reading policy.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)who sat next to me in Algebra II at a junior college some years ago. I forget how it was I knew he was very much a Christian, but it was nice, clean-cut, and didn't make it to class as often as he should have. On the day of the final, I couldn't help but notice that he took a few minutes to pray quietly. Had I not been sitting right next to him I'd never have noticed.
I saw him after the semester ended and learned he'd failed the class. I'm thinking going to class and doing his homework might have been a much more effective learning strategy than prayer.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Did I read that right? He's a 12-year-old 5th grader?
My daughter is 11 and in 6th grade.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)and I've heard is especially helpful for kids with learning disabilities. So kids who start behind might benefit the most from the program.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)I was stunned by the 12-year-old 5th grader, though maybe he just had a birthday JUST on the other side of the cut-off date.
Mariana
(14,860 posts)Sometimes it's because they refuse to do the work they're supposed to do. For example, maybe they spend their accelerated reading time reading the Bible instead of the assigned reading material.
Dorian Gray
(13,501 posts)to be reading a particular book assigned by the class, why can't he read that book during free reading period?
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Last edited Wed May 7, 2014, 09:42 AM - Edit history (1)
It WASN'T a free reading period, it was an acellerated reader period, which a specific list of books. Students ARE permitted to read the Bible in a no-kidding free reading period.
Dorian Gray
(13,501 posts)I responded above (even though it was after this post) knowing that.
False issue.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)I just wanted to be the next person to say that without reading the article or thread.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)No doubt!
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)I hope not.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)upwards of 10,0000 lies." Mark Twain
I wonder which part the kid was reading.