No even remotely liberal person thinks this economy is Good for the People

[cthulu2016]

There is sometimes a political, tactical argument to be made that the economy is sound because the aggregate electorate is rather dumb and tends to support political figures when, and only when, the economy is good and/or rapidly improving.

So sometimes our Party leaders say the economy is sound, and even dispatch professional and amateur propagandists to proclaim the good news of the sound economy. And fair enough, because that is a tactic.

And I am all for winning elections. So that's awesome.

But there is also what grown-ups say... to each other. And it is horrifying to think in one's private heart that our current economy is working for workers. Even if one is rah-rah 24/7, I hope everyone knows, at least in some contemplative interior space, how deeply sick American economic life is today.

Our political view as Democrats and like-minded independents requires that we see this economy as a monstrosity, because if we are excited and pleased about the greatest economic destruction of ordinary people since at least the 1930s, and what may be the most compressed, explosive short-term growth of wealth inequality in human history... well, then what the hell do we believe about anything???

President Obama does not run the economy. Congress runs the economy more than the President does and it shows. Seriously... does anybody actually think this House of Representatives has been managing an economy that is good for ordinary people?

The economy is not Obama's fault. And just because some chuckle-head somewhere thinks the president runs the economy doesn't mean that the economy must be good "because Obama."

The economy is substantially better than it was in 2009. It is, however, substantially worse than it was, and in ways that are insidious and destructive of real human prospects.

And the bulk of our energies must be directed, at all times, to repairing the horribleness of our economy. And if some cognative dissonance flows from the fact that our "awesome" economy is the BIG PROBLEM then that's what it is.

[elleng]

1. You are quite right to recognize,

and publicize, the political/tactical arguments for what they are.

[quinnox]

2. If you are wealthy or a member of the top 1%, you have done very well

under Obama. On the other hand, the underclass and the middle class unfortunately don't have much to be grateful for.

[babylonsister]

5. Because of Obama or because the rethugs have done

everything in their power to usurp Obama to the betterment of the 1%?

[Doctor_J]

6. The president has done plenty for the 1%

TPP is right around the corner, and he already gave us heritage care and the renewal of the Bush tax cuts talk of austerity and balanced budgets. If you really think that the president has no power at all, then why vote?

[progressoid]

24. Both.

[Autumn]

3. True.

recommended

[otherone]

4. yes

kr

[awoke_in_2003]

7. All I know is the cost of everything...

is going up, but wages aren't. Even at the grocery store, you are faced with not only higher prices but smaller sizes. Canned vegetables used to be 16 oz cans, now 14 oz is the normal. I cannot go to the local gas station/convenient store without being asked for money 50% of the time. Everyone but the wealthy is feeling the crunch, regardless of what the official reports say.

[bhikkhu]

8. The horribleness of the economy is a big issue, but the "recovery" is coming along

The economic expectations of any recovery (where large job losses lead to a glut of people looking for work, driving down wages) are that jobs come first, then when the unemployment rate finally begins to drop wage increases follow.

That's about what we have had. Of course, there is no argument that the recovery could easily be sped along by government action. The other side of the aisle has openly obstructed every attempt to speed things along; as long as there is a democratic president their best interests are served by keeping things as miserable as possible, as long as possible, and blaming everyone else. Pretty simple.

In spite of how long things have taken, even in my little right-wing-dominated corner of the country, things have definitely turned around in the last couple of years. House prices and construction are up, people are busy and there are jobs. I survived the recession in reasonable shape (hung on to my house and a mediocre job) while putting a lot of effort to retraining and putting together a better set of skills and credentials. In January I moved up to the best job I've had in many years, in a company that is doing better than it has in many years, and that has been struggling to find good workers.

Its different for everyone, but I suppose I'm an optimist with a good personal example; and I certainly have no doubt where to point the finger when it comes to where the blame for all the trouble lies.

[hfojvt]

9. I don't think it is THAT bad

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024400678

Substantially worse than it was WHEN?

Show me those glory days. The 1990s? Well, the 1990s sucked for ME, personally and things have been better for me in the last five years than they ever were for me in the 1990s.

And I don't think they were all that great for everybody in the 1990s either. I remember at the time, about 1994 or so, the Republican governor was bragging about the new jobs at some plant. Jobs that paid a starting wage of $6 an hour.

That would be $9.57 in today's money, but it wasn't considered much of a living wage even back then, not even by me, even though I was living on $5.40 an hour myself.

[zeemike]

13. Well I will not show you any glory days.

Because they don't exist....but I will point out to you that before Reagan one worker could support a family on 40 hours a week pay in the average job...and normally only one person in a family worked.
But now it takes two...twice as many hours working to give the same support of a family...that by my figuring is a 100% decrease in the last 40 years...but only for working people.

For the 1% it is just the oppisit...they have more than 100% growth in their income and really don't have to work at all...and can hire people to wipe their ass for them if they want.

So yes it is substantially worse...and is not getting any better...and won't as long as our leaders come from those 1% who are doing really well and have no reason to change anything.

[hfojvt]

19. I would say that incomes HAVE risen

plus there's the fact that even in 1975, about 50% of mothers with children over the age of six were in the labor force.

One reason though, that two incomes does not necessarily greatly increase prosperity - is because of increased expenses. Now the family needs two cars where before one might have sufficed. Now they are spending more money on day care.

[zeemike]

20. In 1975 I was making over 10 dollars an hour

Working in a manufacturing plant...with health insurance 3 weeks paid vacation and a dental plan with stock sharing plan...and that was not the best paying job but not bad for the south.

In 79 I bought a new car a nice one, it cost 8200 dollars...I was buying a house and my payments were 136 dollars a month...it was a modest house and the interest rates I think was less than 4%.

Now tell me that things are better now...can you rent or buy a home for less than 1000 dollars today?....and old used car will cost 8 grand and gas for it 5 times as much as then...and if you can find a 10 dollar manufacturing job with benefits you will be lucky, but you will need two of them to live in anything but poverty...

That is not moving up but down, way down.

[hfojvt]

22. $10 an hour in 1975

is the same as $43.92 an hour today.

If you made $10 in 1975 then you had a damned good job.

My first job out of college in 1985 only paid $8.54 an hour, or $18.41 today.

That's more money than I make today.

But that's what I get for jumping off the good job train.

It does appear though, that GS-7 pay has NOT quite kept up with inflation. A GS-7 today "only" makes $16.44 an hour, about 89% of what they used to make.

Still pretty good money though, although it is interesting when I consider that the GS pay of 1985 was at the end of a three year COLA freeze from Reagan (IIRC). So the higher wage of 1985 was probably lower than it was in 1982 or earlier.

$8200 in 1979 is the same as $26,600 today. I think you could get a new car for that. $136 in 1979 is $440 today. My own house payment from 2002 was only $225, which would be $295 today. My house has maybe appreciated in value by $5,000. So it could be purchased for much less than $440 a month.

I cannot remember gas prices. My 1979 yearbook shows 81.9 and complains that it is a high price. That would be $2.67 today so it is 27% higher today than in 1979. But gas mileages are better today. I am seeing more smart cars, and the price of gas has been up and down.

We had no internet, PS-3 or cell phones in those days either.

[zeemike]

23. "is the same as $43.92 an hour today."

That is the point...how many manufacturing jobs pay $43.92 an hour today?
And how many starting jobs pay $18.41 today?

I am surprised that you cannot see that we are not better off today, even if we have smart phones and electronic toys to play with....when you go to the grocery store you might just notice that stake in 9 dollars a pound and that food is much higher and wages have not kept up with that inflasion...and rent is out of reach for many people on minimum wage.

In the cheapest state to live in Arkansas, you have to work 63 hours at minimum wage to afford rent...in the east and California it is much higher.

Study Shows Minimum Wage Workers Need To Work 82 Hours/Week To Afford Rent

Minimum wage earners in Illinois need to work more than double the hours in a standard work week to pay the rent, according to a study from the National Low Income Housing Coalition.

The report, released earlier this month, says in order for an Illinois minimum wage worker earning an hourly wage of $8.25 to afford a two-bedroom "Fair Market Rent" apartment, she or he would have to work 82 hours a week.
http://chicagoist.com/2013/03/22/study_shows_minimum_wage_workers_ne.php

[Puzzledtraveller]

10. We occupy the throne so it's all good .

Any negative news is just haters propaganda. I'm rolling in cash, I have so much money I don't know what to do with it all.

[blkmusclmachine]

11. But the 1% are making out like BANDITS, thank you very much.

Yay, "Change!"

[DeSwiss]

12. K&R

[center]The Damned Things Will Not Fit Into Their Slots

''The most thoroughly and relentlessly Damned, Banned, Excluded, Condemned, Forbidden, Ostracized, Ignored, Suppressed, Repressed, Robbed, Brutalized and Defamed of all Damned Things is the individual human being.

The social engineers, statisticians, psychologists, sociologists, market researchers, landlords, bureaucrats, captains of industry, bankers, governors, commissars, kings and presidents are perpetually forcing this Damned Thing into carefully prepared blueprints and are perpetually irritated that the Damned Thing will not fit into the slot assigned it.

The theologians call it a sinner and try to reform it. The governor calls it a criminal and tries to punish it. The psychologist calls it a neurotic and tries to cure it. Still, the Damned Things will not fit into their slots.''

~Robert Anton Wilson[/center]

[Dragonfli]

14. +1000

[Recursion]

15. When was it better for the people? Which people? It's somewhat worse for middle class whites now

I have trouble agreeing with the idea that the current situation is in total worse than 20, 40, or 60 years ago.

[cthulu2016]

17. Then you will be relieved to know I was referring to the recent past

The economy, in what it does for the people in it, is worse today, and more unequal today, and more insecure today than it was before the economy rolled off the table circa 2008... and that despite the 2000s having been a bad job period to begin with.

(ACA does add something to the well being of workers that wasn't there before the crash, but is not a product of the economy being weak or robust.)

[Recursion]

18. Yes, we had a pretty good economy in the late 1990s -- you know, right after NAFTA

when we had a peace dividend and very good trade with our neighbors before W decided to throw that all in the trash can for his wars and tax cuts. Wages increased, employment increased, and government services were being provided pretty well. It will take a while to get that back, though we're at least moving towards it.

[Dragonfli]

16. I think people that are comfortable consider it a wonderful success

As can be seen in a couple of posts right in this thread.

For blue collar people and an ever growing number of white collar people reality tells a different story. People are going hungry around where I live, not hungry as in, "Damn I could really go for a snickers bar." but rather hungry as in, "How the fuck am I going to stretch the last chicken into 3 days of protein for me and the kids" hungry. People are falling into homelessness all over the neighborhood and the food pantries have to send people away.

So yeah, for what is actually becoming MOST people very rapidly, this economy never fucking recovered at all, it is getting worse. Jobs are paying the same or in more cases have been replaced with jobs paying half - while food, rent electric and pretty much every fucking thing else except for the toys we can't afford are going up, rather dramatically in fact.

Fuck the rich pricks that spread that bullshit in order to fool the very people they have screwed over for the sake of their sugar daddy bundlers and banks that own them.

It is Congress, BOTH sides of the aisle, and yes the administration as well that keeps greasing the revolving doors with the hair oil their owners wipe off their boots after kicking us in the head.

Also, fuck the comfortable that are "comfortable" with our plight because they think it's a god damn sporting event to score points in and love their star players with the adoration of a teenager with a favorite puppy.

Reality tells a different story, a story too impoverished to afford such lovely spin. I may be in a bad mood later, if so perhaps I'll tell everyone how I really fucking feel..

[Vincardog]

21. Be careful if you go arround trying to talk about the real issues you might rile up the PC police