Has the Democratic party become too obcessed with race?

[bart95]

My family have always been Democrats, and have always supported civil rights

I suppose we are Democrats in the model of Henry Wallace, a great progressive

As a child, I recall a very evenly ballanced focus on

- environment and resource sustainability
- wages
- support for middle and working classes
- anti-war (although LBJ needed a little work on that one)
- civil rights

but frankly, it feels like with support of free trade and open borders (both of which crush citizen workers) and willing to go along with warmongering (even if not openly instigating it), it seems like there is an obcession with race way beyond what it was when I was a kid, even now that racial slurs have all but been eradicated (even if there is still more progress to be made)

is the focus on race a smoke screen for selling out on so many other fronts?

ponder or flame, away!

[get the red out]

1. Conservatives

In my opinion, it is the conservative focus on upholding racism at all costs that forces liberals to constantly be defending the various people they despise against injustice.

[bart95]

3. or are both parties splitting working people by race?

divided, and conquered

[get the red out]

46. No

Afraid not. Right wing radio and Fox News are racist to the core. Everyone else in the country is left to deal with the fallout.

[bart95]

55. deal with, or exploit, the fallout? nt

[get the red out]

58. The only people being exploited

are the bottom 99% that the Republicans despise. They exploit all the hate they produce, their media allows powerless white people to blame their troubles on other people in the same boat, due to "race"; which keeps them from putting blame appropriately on the ubber-rich who continue to suck the whole economic system dry and demand more.

Yea, there is fallout from that, liberals have to try to educate and stand up for justice. It's cleaning up an elephant shit house.

Seeking justice does not equal exploitation.

[bart95]

63. both parties push the same free-trade kool-aid

they just take different sides of flag burning

[get the red out]

77. I agree on free trade

But "flag burning"? The hate pushed by the Republicans is the real flag burning, they are turning citizens against one another, if that isn't hate for one's country I don't know what is! Their tactics are to keep lower and middle class white people on their side through demonizing certain populations. To do this they use the Churches of the religious right (hating on gays and women), and right wing media (all that and people who aren't white).

Free trade is not helpful to our economy at all, but the fact that many Democrats are wrong on that topic does not in any way mean that they focus on race too much. Democrats/liberals/non-hate mongers do stand for justice for everyone, they are right on that point. They push free trade by saying it will be the best thing for us in the long run, which is bull shit but not race-baiting.

[bart95]

82. both parties used flag burning as a diversion

instead of protesting the amendments, the democrats shopuld have called out Bush Sr's NAFTA as blowing away every flag maker's job to China

but no, they went along with NAFTA, MFN-China, while wasting time debating rather than scoffing at a stupid time wasting emendment exercise

[get the red out]

85. The party I belong to

is way too much into deal-making. There are many things I wish they would have fought on.

But they are also about standing up for equality. I am very grateful for that.

[snooper2]

103. Your OP and continued replies are straight from Pigboys commentary today

FYI

[bart95]

105. i wrote it off the top of my head

and i do not know who you are talking about

[snooper2]

106. Pigboy was "teaching" how Democrats identify everybody by Race/Orientation/Gender

and how Republicans don't look at any of that

How he doesn't notice race, or orientation, or gender (then went into an aside of how he does notice a pretty woman because he's a "red blooded man" or some such shit)


Pigboy = Rush-ho = Limbaugh

[bart95]

107. well ecuuuuuse, me for not keeping up with what limbaugh says

or keeping up with every nickname for him

i've listened to limbaugh exactly once in the last 10 year, the day he got out of treatment for pill popping. i couldnt miss hearing what a self righious war on drugs hack had to say after a month 'at the farm'

it was a drug free psychedelic experience to say the least

but that's it, and that had to be at least 5 years ago

[snooper2]

108. It's okay this time...you don't have to go sit in the naughty chair...

[Odin2005]

2. Thank you for your "concern".

BTW, is that pizza I smell?

[daleanime]

4. Hope it's not left in the oven too long....

hate it when the crust is burned.

[ellisonz]

23. I dislike it especially when...

...the crust is stuffed and is burned! No one likes crispy cheese!

[bart95]

5. ?

if you have something to say, could you be a little less cryptic?

[NoGOPZone]

21. .

[scheming daemons]

6. your spelling of "obsession" is pretty freeperific

I smell anchovies and pepperoni in your future.

[bart95]

11. a 'republican typo'?!?

wow - that's just paranoid

hope you dont fly for jetblue

[FSogol]

7. Examples of the Democratic Party's obsession with race?

[Proud Liberal Dem]

9. +1

I'd like to know what the OP is talking about. I don't like the sound of it.

[bigtree]

8. this is a winner

No flame: just fuck off.

[zipplewrath]

10. No

We've gotten "rid" of "institutionalized racism. But individual racisim, and cultural racism still exists. Remaining attentive to the problem is called vigilance not "obcessed".

The fact that we may have "lost our way" on some of the other issues you mention, doesn't mean we should focus less on one of the few we've managed to sustain.

[bart95]

15. thank you for at least addressing the question seriously

unlike every other very hostile post

[redqueen]

17. I disagree that we've gotten rid of institutionalized racism. nt

[zipplewrath]

30. There are no absolutes in life

But Jim Crow is gone.
There is a whole civil rights department at Justice.
Employment is fairly strictly regulated.
The institutions of government are deeply integrated.
Large and multinational companies have active diversity programs.

It's hard to differentiate between being "gone" and what we have.

[bart95]

40. well put nt

[LanternWaste]

57. The difference, I believe, is merely in degrees.

It's hard to differentiate between being "gone" and what we have.

The difference, I believe, is merely in degrees rather than the complete absence of a thing. And a lesser degree of a thing directly implies its continued existence.

[zipplewrath]

62. Practicality

Practically, it's gone. As I said, absolutes are hard. But the difference is so great, that it's a completely different thing at this point.

Trick question. Which number is greater?

1 or 0.9999999.... out to infinity?

Just because you see something, doesn't really mean it's there. It just may be the way you look at it.

[bart95]

66. correct 1968: Wallace (3rd party) 2008: Obama, main party, winner

i thought the election of 2008 was supposed to mean somethng

perhaps i was wrong

[LanternWaste]

69. I do not see its absence...

I believe that racism, and its impact on politics and the social fabric, the responses to it, and the debates regarding it are not in fact, "practically gone"


"Just because you see something, doesn't really mean it's there. It just may be the way you look at it..."
I imagine the corollary is also true-- just because we do not see a thing doesn't really mean it's not there. It just may be the way you avoid looking at it.

[zipplewrath]

112. This issue is the institutionalization

That was the claim. No one is claiming that racism itself is gone. But the institutionalized racism is gone. We don't have "whites only" anything in government or really in industry. People get caught lynching and are convicted and go to jail. Race cannot openly be used in hiring and firing. i.e. it is not institutionalized. There are still cultural artifacts, and of course individuals.

[CreekDog]

92. Fox News? Sanford Police Department?

a whole political party?

don't think so!

[zipplewrath]

110. Not institutionalized

They have integrated staffs. There are rules and committees and laws. Yes, individual racism still exists, and can create cultures of racism within organizations. But as compared to Jim Crow and Citizens Committees and Klans in the Police forces, there is just no comparison. You can't even really call it the same phenomenon.

[CreekDog]

115. Based on your definition of institutionalized racism...but not based on its actual definition

"The collective failure of an organisation to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their colour, culture, or ethnic origin”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism

[noamnety]

67. Thank you!

I can't believe people think institutionalized racism is done with.

Redistricting
"Public" schools that don't allow people from minority neighborhoods to attend school in rich white neighborhoods
voter ID laws
I could go on and on, it's still a MAJOR influence on society.

[redqueen]

78. Home loans, car loans, loans for relief affer Katrina...

there is sadly shortage of examples of it.

[zipplewrath]

113. If they exist

They can, and are, taken to court and dismantled. You will find no laws outlining how it works and quite to the contrary, you will find laws to stop it, and they are enforced.

[CreekDog]

90. I also disagree that we've gotten rid of institutionalized racism

[CreekDog]

91. Not unless you don't consider the Sanford Police Department or Fox News

part of society's institutions.

[MjolnirTime]

12. take this shit elsewhere. You will find no support here.

[Tarheel_Dem]

126. Well he did find support, and from someone who's been here for nearly 10 years. The lone REC.

Hmmmmm..... I love transparency, don't you?

[gateley]

13. DEMOCRATS????

I'd say it's the Republicans:


http://www.facebook.com/photodoctor?ref=ts

I've become obsessed with the LEVEL of racism that seems to have somehow come OUT of the closet and is acceptable in some circles.

Look at each and every one of those posted on Tracy Knauss's Wall Of Shame -- He didn't make these up. These are REAL. And far too easily accepted and laughed off.

I'm enraged at the level of racism I see in my face that I've never experienced before -- even when I lived in the South.

[bart95]

18. yes, both parties

becasue the republican warmongers and tax cut showering for the rich sure as heck isnt 'fiscal ly responsible'

they havent been in over 30 years

[CreekDog]

94. both parties are the same?

that's laughable.

but you're tired of talking about race anyway.

i see where this is going. tell you what, you go where it is you want to go.

don't wait for us. we have problems to keep working on.

[Lint Head]

14. That would be a big NO Teddy bear.

Considering the GOP doesn't give a rats ass about minorities someone needs to care about the oppression of minorities.

[Ecumenist]

16. WE, kemosabe? RACIAL SLURS HAVE BEEN ERADICATED?? WHAT PLANET DO YOU LIVE ON?

Really, supported civil right did you? You don't live my life or those like me. You don't know what the hell you're talking about and this feels VERY close to flamebait. You need to chill out because I have a sneaking feeling that you just might find your stay here on DU VERY short. You're as subtle as a bull elephant.

[bart95]

22. people correctly lose careers over a public slur

and i dont know anyone personally who makes them

didnt say racism has been eradicated, just saying that public slurs that go unpunished are faily rare, relative to the amount you hear about it

'You need to chill out because I have a sneaking feeling that you just might find your stay here on DU VERY short.'

threats are a TOS violation, I believe

[Ecumenist]

27. First of all, that's not a threat. it's a promise if you keep trying to start flame wars

Secondly, your actual quote about racial slurs and I copied and pasted "even now that racial slurs have all but been eradicated (even if there is still more progress to be made)" is EXACTLY what you said. Don't play with me, not only do I read but comprehension is a forte of mine. You personally don't know anyone that makes them. Sure you don't.

If you're one of the new posters to DU who are spinning , twisting and stomping in your attempt to try to justify the latest atrocity in Floorida and claim that racism is figment of black folks imagination, save your type strokes. I have been called N****r, C**n and every single one of those lovely names that bigots love to hurl at other Americans who's only crime is having dark skin. If I were you, I would leave well enough alone. Not a good way to start your membership at DU, trust me.

[notadmblnd]

19. No, I fdon;'t think the Democratic party is focused on Race

I do think that the republican party is though. I think people like Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Pat Robertson, Sarah Palin and Patrick Buchanan along with organizations like fox news have made all the hate filled bigots think that it is OK for them to express their prejudice and take action viciously and openly. NO, Democrats are not obsessed with race, right wing conservatives are.

[bart95]

24. yes, those you listed are, no question about it

I'm not even saying that the Democratic party started it, I'm questioning if maybe they are finding it a little too convinient

I may have better asked 'are BOTH parties...'

your point is well taken

[joeybee12]

20. You're right...Trayvon Martin has shown us racism doesn't exist anymore....

[get the red out]

53. exactly

When someone can get away with capital murder, so blatantly, someone had better be paying attention to it! The Democratic Party does, the Republican Party just dries to demonize a murdered child. We have to focus on this, it's imperitave in order to have a civilized society.

I don't see other concerns suffering because this particular attrocity has happened recently.

[spanone]

25. shirley, you joke

[bart95]

26. and stop calling me shirley, over

[Rex]

28. Really? You can focus too much on civil rights?

Can you give me an example? Free trade, no open borders and warmongering are traits of the GOP so you have me a little confused. Thanks.

EDIT - No? Not even one example?

[BumRushDaShow]

29. "even now that racial slurs have all but been eradicated"

Perhaps in FauxSnoozeland where denial only refers to that river in Egypt that they can't spell correctly or find on a map because Putin was rearing his head over Alaska.

[bart95]

36. i should have used the word 'public'

i cant speak for what goes on privately, as it is by definition, private

but for my own world, it's true - havent heard them used openly for years

[BumRushDaShow]

75. If I lived in an isolated location or kept isolated from others

then I would not hear such either.

But then this goes back to the old adage about whether that tree falling in the forest makes a sound when no one is there.

So your argument has been that because you weren't there to hear it, it made no sound, and thus cannot be considered valid as being "public" - even if there were say, several thousand scouts in that forest who witnessed it while camping during a jamboree.

I.e., your assumptions underestimate, undervalue, and marginalize others who argue counter to your assertions.

[ellisonz]

31. The jury is back:

YOUR COMMENTS:

This post is incredibly disruptive to normal conversation about this topic - check out the responses - and is hurtful, rude, insensitive, and over-the-top to those that are concerned about the social function of race in the United States. "is the focus on race a smoke screen for selling out on so many other fronts?" - way over the top. Please hide this post so MIRT can do its deed. Thank you for your time.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Thu Mar 29, 2012, 01:50 PM, and voted 2-4 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Don't agree with the post, but I certainly don't think it needs to be censored.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: I agree with the alerter...ESPECIALLY now, this is a VERY callous post to make, and it sounds like a disrupter...if they're NOT a disruptor, the person is still way out of line on this.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I share the alerters perspective but think it is important that people here on DU respond to this kind of thinking head on. Racism cannot be excluded from the causes that we a Democrats will fight to end, without fear, and without apology.

And yes, the TOS box was checked - you can send one too if you like

[bart95]

37. 'you can send one too if you like'

why would i do that?

[librechik]

32. what?

go away junior. That wasn't even a nice try. And get a spelling program while you're at it.

alert away!

[MineralMan]

33. Shouldn't that be "abcessed?"

No, the Democratic Party is not obsessed with race. But thanks for trying, eh...

[Bruce Wayne]

127. You speak the tooth!

[Bluerthanblue]

34. No, not at all-

your use of the word obssessed is silly.

I don't see us as obsessed with anything other than fairness and equality. The right of all people to be treated as individuals who have inherent worth. That cannot be a smoke screen. It is part of the core values of who we are.

We can't ignore race- as uncomfortable as it is, and as much as people would like to believe the fairy tale that it is 'a thing of the past'- racism in so many forms, is still very active in this society. Ignoring it, or denying it only allows it to grow and to continue to destroy everyone of us.

[KamaAina]

35. Racial slurs have been eradicated?

Guess George ("f---king c--ns&quot Zimmerman didn't get the memo.

[NOLALady]

38. Nope.

Not in my opinion.

[K Gardner]

39. Welcome to DU. Sheesh. Not even worth commenting on. n/t

[ProSense]

41. So

Has the Democratic party become too obcessed with race?

<...>

As a child, I recall a very evenly ballanced focus on

- environment and resource sustainability
- wages
- support for middle and working classes
- anti-war (although LBJ needed a little work on that one)
- civil rights

...you were a child during the Civil Rights era and are asking if the Democratic Party has become too "obcessed with race"?

Do you remember MLK, the marches and the speeches?


"is the focus on race a smoke screen for selling out on so many other fronts? "

It isn't a big enough "smoke screen" to hide the Republican Party assault on civil rights, women's rights, voting rights, gay rights, immigrant rights and the health care rights of all Americans.

[geardaddy]

43. This ^

[Bluerthanblue]

47. bingo!

[bart95]

50. answers

"...you were a child during the Civil Rights era and are asking if the Democratic Party has become too "obcessed with race"? "

no, I was part of a family that supported it, along with a ballanced focuse on the other issues

"Do you remember MLK, the marches and the speeches? "

not very well, (was pretty young), but yes

"It isn't a big enough "smoke screen" to hide the Republican Party assault on civil rights, women's rights, voting rights, gay rights, immigrant rights and the health care rights of all Americans. "

but you've ignored the Bush Sr/Clinton/Bush jr/Obama assault on middle and working classes via WTO, NAFTA, H-1b visas, GATT - and that's my whole point - hard to see it through the smoke screen

[ProSense]

54. Seriously,

"It isn't a big enough "smoke screen" to hide the Republican Party assault on civil rights, women's rights, voting rights, gay rights, immigrant rights and the health care rights of all Americans. "

but you've ignored the Bush Sr/Clinton/Bush jr/Obama assault on middle and working classes via WTO, NAFTA, H-1b visas, GATT - and that's my whole point - hard to see it through the smoke screen

?

[great white snark]

72. Exactly.

[Tarheel_Dem]

128. Thank You!

[butterfly77]

42. No,that is the republiCONS

CON! Your party views every issues on how you can hurt or harm anyone not a white,male or rich. Everytime,you do something to hurt someone just because they are a black,woman,gay,etc. It will come back to bite you and your family in the ass!

You are so blind you can't see that you are destroying the country you claim to love. Remember CON...United we stand,Divided we fall.

[bart95]

45. i agreed with another poster that the question should have been BOTH parties nt

[retread]

44. WTF???

[EmeraldCityGrl]

48. Consider reading this blog entry...

http://jenhatmaker.com/blog/2012/03/26/dear-trayvons-mom#.T3Gaw5hvZjJ.gmail


For people that have been insulated in their bubble of a post-racial America there
sometimes comes a moment of awakening. A brutal realization that all is not how
you would wish it to be.

[geardaddy]

56. Awesome read.

Thanks for sharing that.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

68. Anytime Geardaddy.

[nachosgrande]

49. The answer is no.

First of all, I don't think the Democratic Party is "obsessed with race" at all; at least not any more than any Republicans or any other Americans. So, your premise is faulty to begin with. Also, can you provide recent specific examples of Democrats' obsession with race issues? Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, etc may be Democrats, but they are not the Democratic Party, or representatives of the party in any way, if that's the angle you're approaching this from.

Having said that, you do make a point about the top of the party selling us out to a certain extent with regards to the following:

"- wages
- support for middle and working classes
- anti-war (although LBJ needed a little work on that one) "

But if anything, I feel like Democratic leadership has gone more in the direction of downplaying race inequality issues in an attempt to follow the Republicans' bootstrapesque, meritocracy, personal accountability/responsibility worldview.

[Iggo]

51. No, but thanks for asking!

[Quantess]

52. I think Democrats are also too obsessed with contraception.

[ellisonz]

76. It's because we like schtupping too much.

Yeah, I know you thought I was going to use that word, but I didn't, I said schtupping

[LanternWaste]

59. What specific and relevant constants exist which leads you to believe...

What specific and relevant constants exist which leads you to believe Democrats are obsessed with race?

Additionally, what specifically leads you to believe that racial slurs have been all but eradicated?

[Rex]

64. Don't expect an answer, I am still waiting for one.

nt.

[yardwork]

60. You're seriously asking this question today? Have you been following the Trayvon Martin case?

I think that Democrats are finally getting around to noticing that we need to focus more on racism in this country, along with all the other things you mention. They're all interrelated, anyway. It comes down to human rights.

[bart95]

133. yes, how could one not notice the dozens of threads in general discussion about it

but how many of you caught that Biden falsely claimed the number one tool of outsourcing (the H-1b visa) doesnt displace citizen workers yesterday?


http://blogs.computerworld.com/19965/clueless_in_the_white_house

yes, what happened in florida is terrible, but at some point, after several dozen threads with coutless dozens of posts each, one upping each other in outrage and speculaltion, it doesnt hurt to lift up your head and see what they're trying to slide past you while you're not looking

that's exactly what i'm talking about

[Blaukraut]

61. The Democratic Party can walk and chew gum at the same time

If supporting and advocating civil rights is an obsession, call me happily obsessed. As to the other issues you listed, keep in mind that in the last decade or two the Democrats have been fighting an increasingly extreme Republican opposition and their assault on the progress made on these issues. Forced to play defense just to hold the line is not going to amount to a lot of forward movement. That is not the Democrats' fault.

[Ikonoklast]

65. Is the Republican Party abscessed about most things?

The amount of pus coming from them says 'Yes'.

[loyalsister]

70. We don't talk about it enough

maturely that is. In his speech about race, Obama expressed some recognition and understanding that white people often don't feel their privilege and blame of their lack of success on what they perceive as advantages that have been given to minorities......

&feature=relmfu

[stevenleser]

71. We get it, you don't like diversity and civil rights efforts or immigrants

MIRT: Cleanup in Aisle 5 please.

[bart95]

73. straw man attempt noted nt

[stevenleser]

74. You prefer I provide links? Here are links to previous posts of yours...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002469193 - A criticism of Shumer for providing more visas to Indian Immigrants

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002465645#post5 - A defense of the "reverse racism" canard

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002445330 - Criticism of North Dakota degree mill, which would be fine, but again, its regarding immigrants.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002452438#post11 - Here is you lauding Barry Goldwater

So your short stay here has been spent being anti-immigrants, anti calls for improvement of diversity and civil rights, and pro-Barry Goldwater.

[bart95]

80. nice try on the dirt digging

there's nothing wrong with questioning H-1b indentured servitude or degree mills

but your remark about goldwater is flat out FALSE!!!!

I was commenting that he would have gotten us BLOWN OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH

on your 'defense of reverse racism' canard, all i did was point out that on google 'racism' returns 4 times as many entries as eisenhower - is there a part of that, that isnt true?

nice try on the dirt digging though, had you been born earlier, you could have gotten a job with Nixon

[LanternWaste]

83. Yet is still begs the question...

Yet is still begs the question absent from your initial posit:

What specific and relevant constants exist which leads you to believe Democrats are obsessed with race? Additionally, what specifically leads you to believe that racial slurs have been all but eradicated?

[bart95]

84. it's not even so much that they are DOING too much about it

as much as talking about it too much

and i'm even talking about local, i still get invited to local democratic party events, and there's still a lot of talk about race, and total censorship of free trade and economic issues

it's like someone in a work group in status meetings, making a big deal over one issue, to take up the time they would have spent discussing the issues they have failed (or refused) to do anything about - that's what i'm really getting at

'Additionally, what specifically leads you to believe that racial slurs have been all but eradicated? '

the fact that doing so publicly is (correctly) a career ending move, even once in most cases. the fact that i never hear people in semi public places ever use them - ever.

for instance, what do you hear more often - talk about 'The N-word', or the actual word itself? (use among rappers etc, does not count)

[LanternWaste]

95. You appear, via your statement, to conflate both the public and the private arenas

"Too much" is rather subjective... much like "too much light", "too much poetry", "too much discipline", etc..., else you can provide us with an objective amount of what may or may not be too much or too little of discussion re: a thing, and on what that is based?

The (albeit local) meetups of Democrats in my area though speak little of race-- jobs, the economy, union-busting and the sell-out by the GOP Governor of state-affiliated departments to private interests are what dominate the discussions from my chair.




"the fact that doing so publicly is (correctly) a career ending move, even once in most cases. the fact that i never hear people in semi public places ever use them - ever. "

You appear, via your statement, to conflate both the public and the private arenas into one mechanism-- of which they are not. Many people do many things that they do not indeed or in fact, do on camera or in a public arena. Use of racial epithets is far from eradicated-- come on down to a summer Barbeque in north central Texas-- you'll soon realize that "coon", "nigger" "spic" and "wetback" are far from gone within the upwardly mobile white community (or, to satisfy your requirements: non-rappers). I believe we may paraphrase Twain here... "the reports of that eradication are grossly over-estimated"


It appears that your conjecture is based on little more than anecdotal experience; and, as we are all aware that we often fail to see those things we don't want to see, anecdotal experience is hardly indicative of the national, or even local amount of discourse regrading race at the expense of discussions regarding anything else...

[bart95]

97. hey, I went to college too

"anecdotal experience is hardly indicative of the national, or even local amount of discourse regrading race at the expense of discussions regarding anything else... "

but strive for fewer, not more syllables if you're more interested in making your point

[stevenleser]

102. And his main response to you was to complain about words with too many syllables

because, ya know, a multi-syllabled word like 'anecdotal' is a few syllables too many.

Oh yeah, you used eradicated too. That's not nice. It's too much of that thar Liberal education for our troll.

[stevenleser]

86. I am sure you think you have reasons for being stridently anti-immigrant and anti-diversity efforts

LOL, dirt digging? You see that Google logo with a field to the right of it at the top right of your screen? That is a tool the site provides for doing research here on topics and posters.

It is not MY fault that a site search of your handle results in a vomitous overflow of posts against immigrants and immigration and foreign students. By itself, one could say you have an obsession with that issue.

Combine that, however, with your now several comments against efforts to improve civil rights and civil rights awareness and an entirely different picture emerges.

[bart95]

88. perhaps you're getting a little obsessed with other posters? nt

[stevenleser]

99. Nope, every DUers troll-radar goes off with low post count people who post right wing stuff nt

[ellisonz]

104. Sometimes I guess DU is prepared to tolerate an abcess or two. n/t

[stevenleser]

111. LMAO!

[pinboy3niner]

79. I see this has one rec--so I want to counter it with my strident UNREC!

[stevenleser]

118. Yes, two wtf's. One is that this OP was posted and two that anyone on DU rec'ced it.

Tres Bizarre, no?

[pinboy3niner]

123. How do you say WTF in French?

Yes it's tres bizarre.

[lib_wit_it]

81. The leader of the Democratic party, President Barack Obama, has barely mentioned race during his

presidency. Please give clear examples as to what makes you suggest that the Democratic Party is obsessed with race? Perhaps because some members of the party call racism racism?

[WilliamPitt]

87. Obcessed or abcessed.

This thread reminds me of an abcess.

[CreekDog]

89. Because the lesson of the ongoing Trayvon Martin case is that racism is less of a problem

not more.



Bad post combined with obtuse timing.

[Quantess]

93. But, republicans are obsessed with creating jobs!

[bart95]

96. no, they're obsessed with outsourcing them

both parties are

and that's the problem

NEITHER party is looking out for the middle class

[Quantess]

98. Well, that much is true.

I agree with you, there.
Nobody is on poor people's side or the middle class's side. Sadly, that is because our government is (by and large, R and D) owned by the wealthy and the corporations. They do the bidding of their masters.

[bart95]

100. 'Nobody is on poor people's side or the middle class's side'->BINGO

THAT is my point

[TheKentuckian]

125. I STRONGLY suggest sticking to that if it is your point, getting into the weeds

you jumped in is a terrible distraction from an actual serious problem.

I see no obsession with race other than having to deal with the racists over at the GOP.

I'll go as far as to say that many a Democrat seem to only want to focus on social issues because they are so far down the voodoo economics path, that they can clearly seperate from the opposition on economics.
In fact, a fair chunk DO NOT WANT TO have daylight between them and the TeaPubliKlans economically, that is the "centrist" scam.

We not only allowed the status "fiscally conservative/socially moderate (or even liberal)" to be an acceptable place to occupy in the party but have turned it over to the self same fuckers which means a fuckload of fail for us.

[bart95]

131. did you see the video linked? did you like it?

i think it's the best explanation i've seen in at least 10 years

[Starry Messenger]

101. No.

In fact, if the Democratic Party would give more thought to the institutionalized racism in the US, we would be more focused on economic issues, since communities of color are the most vulnerable. "Open borders" aren't the enemy, low wages are the enemy, and this hits minority communities the worst. Bring up wages, create expansive jobs programs and fund school. People of color are the ones who often get sold out, that's not a smoke screen.

[Hugabear]

109. We'll stop obsessing over race when racism is no longer an issue

We'll stop obsessing over race when people like Zimmerman don't get to walk away scot-free after killing an unarmed black teenager.

We'll stop obsessing over race when right-wing propagandists stop their war against minorities

Just like we'll stop our obsessing over gay rights when gays are given the exact same freedoms as everybody else.

Just like we'll stop obsessing over women's issues when women can earn the same wages as a man for the same work, and when government stops trying to tell her what to do with her own body.

Get the picture?

[fishwax]

114. I don't understand your argument

"but frankly, it feels like with support of free trade and open borders (both of which crush citizen workers) and willing to go along with warmongering (even if not openly instigating it), it seems like there is an obcession with race way beyond what it was when I was a kid"

What does support of those policies have to do with an obsession with race?

[stevenleser]

116. A fair and reasoned response to a disjointed fail of an OP

Be assured, the lack of understanding is not the result of any lacking on your part, its a lack of a coherent argument on the part of the OP.

[Blue_Tires]

121. I'm pretty sure

OP has an advanced degree in sockpuppetry...There's something a little too uniform with a lot of these low-post accounts

[stevenleser]

122. Agreed. I hope admins are warming up the pizza as we speak/type.

Obvious troll is obvious.

[zappaman]

124. oh, c'mon

it is entirely coincidental that a poster with a low-post count would just happen to make an OP that was the subject of Rush's show this morning.
right?

[stevenleser]

129. Yes, i am sure it has to be a coincidence poster is in sync with Rush

And good catch!

[bart95]

117. as a diversion, like flag burning

in 1992, i didnt think we needed an amendment against flag burning, like the republicans were pushing, and yes, i did agree that free speech was more important

but that wasnt what was really going on, that's not what it was really about, the real issue was that flag buring was a smokescreen for ushering in globalism and 'free' trade' on the heals of the ending of the cold war. a massive, massive change in society planned by insiders only

democrats and the media were too willing to talk endlessly about a stupid diversionary issue, while both parties were planning to wipe out every manufacturing worker with NAFTA and MFN-China

if you really want to get what i'm talking about, watch this, it's mindblowing, and it's from totally 'progressive' sources (public citizen and public television)

it's about what i feel is being 'diverted' from - it lays out what a total smokescreen almost EVERYTHING is, not just 'race'

http://www.iptv.org/video/detail.cfm/3135/ittv_20081220_155

On October 21, 2008, Iowa State University hosted Lori Wallach, Director of Public Citizen's Global Trade Watch as part of their Technology, Globalization and Culture series. Ms. Wallach, an internationally recognized expert on globalization and trade, has been dubbed the "Trade Debate's Guerilla Warrior."

[ieoeja]

119. Had you said "social issues" instead of "race" this thread would look drastically different.

You are just lucky that today was my turn to be a token defender of obvious wrong.


FYI: regarding anti-war, if you're old enough to remember the '60s then you should probably recall that Republicans used to mockingly refer to us as the "War Party". Republicans have always been about "I, me, my and mine". Once upon time this translated into isolationism to protect American businesses against foreign competitors. Today, they are interventionist to protect 0.000001% of American businesses taking advantage of cheap overseas labor.

For Liberals and Progressives this is a bit of a Catch-22. We want to help people overseas, but protect the weakest among us. Fortunately for the elected Democrats, Clinton's electoral "I'm not like 'those' Democrats' success gives them an excuse to abandon the weakest among us as a matter of pragmatic politics.


The "anti-war" confusion really comes out of Vietnam. While a substantial minority of elected Democrats did oppose *that* war, the main thing that identified Democrats with anti-war was the defense of unpopular speech (yes, ladies and gentlemen, the anti-war movement was huge, but not until really, really late in the war did the vast majority of Americans stop being angrier at the anti-war movement than at the war itself). Defending the rights of the anti-war movement does not make one anti-war. But that was clearly too subtle a distinction for many people (on both sides).

[bart95]

120. maybe i focussed on the smoke screen rather than what's behind it

if you really want to get what i'm talking about, watch this, it's mindblowing, and it's from totally 'progressive' sources (public citizen and public television) it's about the massive changes in society planned by insiders only

it's about what i feel is being 'diverted' from - it lays out what a total smokescreen almost EVERYTHING is, not just 'race'

http://www.iptv.org/video/detail.cfm/3135/ittv_20081220_155

On October 21, 2008, Iowa State University hosted Lori Wallach, Director of Public Citizen's Global Trade Watch as part of their Technology, Globalization and Culture series. Ms. Wallach, an internationally recognized expert on globalization and trade, has been dubbed the "Trade Debate's Guerilla Warrior."

(she was a law school classmate of Obama's)

[fascisthunter]

130. lol.... are conservatives dishonest assholes?

that's a better question.

[bart95]

132. it's a different question

and an evasive answer

[SidDithers]

134. ...

Sid