Europe Pays Almost TWICE As Much For Gas To Drive Cars

[KittyWampus]

Interactive MAP at link.

Gas Prices At The Pump: Europeans Pay Almost Twice As Much As US Residents

http://www.ibtimes.com/gas-prices-pump-europeans-pay-almost-twice-much-us-residents-1322727

[LittleBlue]

1. They also have superb public transit

Which is a real alternative to driving, unlike America's woeful public transport systems.

[Major Nikon]

4. They use the gas taxes to subsidize public transportation

Which is what we should be doing here.

[Mira]

5. Makes me so damn mad.

In Europe you can get anywhere without a car. Affordably. Any time.
(How can we not have a transit system? After all, aren't we number ONE?)

[JVS]

16. That's not really true.

In Europe you can get a lot of places for fairly low prices, but there are a lot of situations where you either go a slow route or pay a high price. For example, I was at a university once and there was another university with a particularly good library about 60 miles away. My university ID allowed me to travel free on slow trains and I could go there for free but it would take 3 tp 3.5 hours of train rides. I could get a fast train there in 1 hour and 1:15 minutes but then I'd need to pay 29 euros each way. I had a similar situation in England where getting to Oxford (60 miles away) would 30 pounds for a morning train and 10 pounds for an off-peak return. In both situations I was overjoyed when a colleague from the area happened to be making the trip with their automobile. It was so much cheaper even with gas costing more.


You might not need a car for every day's activities in Europe, but having one at your disposal really opens up a lot of possibilities. Zipcar might be a really great thing to do over there.

[Mira]

18. Yes. I understand. We would like little personal hovercrafts provided at birth.

You had options in Europe, albeit not always perfect, did you not? And chose one of them that made sense at the time. In America, with gas "cheap" people just drive without going to the trouble to find rides to save gas. Most cars I see have one person in them.

Here we have no real options, and not the mindset to conserve fuel and be good stewards of our resources.

[Mira]

23. I'll make a note of it, maybe I will once

have the opportunity to visit there. You know of course that we are discussing options for the whole country, right?
In either response to me you are making good and well researched points.

[Major Nikon]

24. Point-to-point travel is going to be more expensive for obvious reasons

But people who travel more frequently in Europe are generally going to take advantage of some type of rail pass. Another consideration is that in Europe, traffic jams are a lot more common, so that 60 mile car trip could very easily wind up taking you just about as long as your slow train option, and by the time you wind up paying fuel, tolls, and parking could easily rival the cost of a fast train ride. Sometimes traveling by car in Europe is quite nice, but it can also be quite the pain in the ass.

[hfojvt]

30. I did not think it was that great

when I had to pay 5 marks to go about 5k on a bus. Tuttlingen to Seitingen.

Back in Utah in 1985 I used to pay 75 cents to go 30 miles, from Layton to SLC.

I couldn't believe the driver when he said 5 marks. Then I had to catch the next bus because I didn't have change.

[myrna minx]

2. Europe also has superior modern public transit.

[Recursion]

13. Russia is much more spread out than the US and has much more extensive rail coverage

It really is just something America has proven itself averse to, sadly.

[Blue_Tires]

50. And wonderfully walkable spaces in most cities

it helps that the majority of European cities were designed and laid out with the walker/horse rider in mind, while U.S. cities were designed to accommodate the automobile driver...

[frazzled]

3. That's been true since forever

It was true when I lived in Europe back in the late 1960s and it's been true ever since.

[Recursion]

6. Yeah, but 'Murka. We drive for dirt cheap or it stops being America. Or something.

If somebody can find a gas tax that can pass, I'll be all for it. Short of that, a road use fee is almost as good. In some ways better, because it won't hit farmers.

[FarCenter]

8. Al Gore might have become president if he'd voted the other way

The vote on the gas tax increase in 1993 was so partisan that no Republicans voted for it; Vice President Al Gore cast the tie-breaking vote in the Senate. The legislation was intended to reduce the deficit by $500 billion, and the gas tax was a particularly contentious part of that legislation.

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/04/27/us/dole-urges-repeal-of-1993-gas-tax-increase.html

[Recursion]

10. Yup, that and the Assault Weapons Ban

I still wonder where the people who imagine there is a very left-wing silent majority were in the 1990s...

[Lars39]

34. Why on earth do you think farmers wouldn't be affected by tolls?

Farmers use the interstate system, too.

[Recursion]

36. Their combine doesn't

My grandfather's combine used about three times as much gas in a season as his truck. He would always file to get the gas taxes on it back, for that matter...

[Lars39]

43. They still have to get their produce to market and yes, that is done on the interstate system, too.

[Recursion]

44. Sure, most things are transported using roads, which is why gas taxes are regressive

Just like tolls.

However, tolls charge for actual road use (the thing they're raising money for) as opposed to a gas tax. A farmer uses a lot more gas growing and harvesting his crop than getting it to market.

[Lars39]

45. And quite a few of them already get subsidies that help cover that cost.

[JVS]

7. So the fuck what? We pay way more for a far shittier healthcare system.

So I can understand why people would be reluctant to have some of the few advantages we have here pissed away.

[Zorra]

11. Heh. [phone] nt

[Gemini Cat]

39. Exactly! +a couple of million.

[hobbit709]

12. It's all tax and they get something for it.

[NCTraveler]

14. What are you trying to link this to?

I can't think of any argument currently going on that this would back up.

[frylock]

42. she thinks that paying a toll to travel the interstate system is just ducky..

entirely, I'm sure, because it's being proposed by the current administration.

[randome]

15. I'd rather have the higher gas price than tolls. More efficient and reliable.

But that's not going to happen for quite a while, if ever.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[PumpkinAle]

17. One huge difference is that America is huge

and in all reality it is not feasible to have public transport covering all areas.

Of course, we do need to shore up the public transport in areas it does cover and ensure that those that live there. America and other countries (i.e. GB) were stupid when they did away with tram systems. In Germany they have a wonderful tram system and people use it and enjoy using it to get about - it is cheap, efficient and clean.

[Mira]

19. They have streetcars that at the edge of town can leave the town,

speed up enormously and continue on the tracks, and then go to neighboring towns, slow down again, and become streetcars for the duration.
I rode that in Karlsruhe near the French Border.
Just AWESOME and cheap and ON TIME.

[sir pball]

20. Wow! I had no idea...it's a lot better than the first time I went across the pond.

'92, trip to France - gas was about the same price per unit, but the units were liters. I was utterly mindboggled that anybody could afford ~$3.50/gallon!

Glad to hear they're getting a fairer shake; my latest trip is beginning to coalesce, it'll be a nice bit of pocket money for the trip to Murren.

[Nye Bevan]

22. That kind of tax here would absolutely kill rural Americans.

I'm thinking like people in VT who need to drive 10 or 15 miles to get to a store. Smart tolls are a much better solution. Someone who takes 2 hours driving from CT to NY at rush hour has a much greater environmental impact than someone in a rural state driving the same distance.

[Xithras]

29. Yes and no.

The flipside of that argument, rural America once had small markets and other services scattered throughout rural areas, and those markets died off when the automobile shortened travel time and allowed for them to be consolidated. Historically, any place with more than a few dozen homes within a few minutes walk, ride, or drive would have a small central area providing services.

Smaller markets and stores still exist throughout Europe, and in America in densely populated areas where many people prefer to walk. By encouraging the reduction of cars, we would also encourage the resurgence of those types of businesses in rural America, which would help with unemployment.

[gollygee]

25. Europe and the US are very different

Most people in the US NEED cars to get to work. Working people can hardly afford gas prices as they are. If we had the kind of public transportation options that exist in Europe, it would be another thing, though I don't know how that would work with how big our country is.

[dilby]

26. They also pay twice as much for food, twice as much for housing and their salaries are twice as high

Go figure, people who make twice as much can afford to pay twice as much.

[FBaggins]

31. What gave you that impression?

There are only 2-3 European countries with median incomes higher than the US (none anywhere close to twice as high).

[dilby]

32. I am just going with the UK.

My counterparts in the UK make nearly twice as much as I do for doing the same job for my company. But their cost of living is greatly increased, as well as their taxes. But at the end of the day disposable income is nearly the same as mine, however they do get better perks as far as healthcare and vacation.

[FBaggins]

38. Ah... that's more granular.

They may be in an expensive part of the UK while you're in a comparatively low cost-of-living part of the US -

It's good that you recognize the net living-standard difference. I can't tell you how many people that I've lost over the years who thought that they were leaving for better pay... only to see their standard of living decline because the new market was so expensive.

My younger brother probably earns a little more than I do, but I live in what most would consider an upper-middle-class home while he rents a small cinder-block 2BR home... because I'm in NC and he's in HI.

OTOH... the view from just about every corner of his home is spectacular.

[Harmony Blue]

27. Europe =/= Florida

or most of the United States

Myopic New Yorkers think that the rest of the United States have outstanding public transportation until they come for a visit down here in Florida and learn it is way different.

Your north east bias is showing.

[tammywammy]

37. I just heard on the radio about a new rail that opened today for Orlando.

I couldn't imagine driving in that all the time.

Speaking of Europe, at my work we travel to Germany and Italy often and where the people are going are not supported by rail. Their trips require a vehicle.

[FBaggins]

28. Closer to three time as much in Italy

I just returned a couple weeks ago from an extended stay and prices were roughly $10/gal at then-current exchange rates.

The interesting thing though is that the 9-passenger diesel that I was driving got almost 30 mpg (significantly better than my much smaller Honda minivan).

[liberal N proud]

33. Rail is also much more available in Europe

They also spend much more on infrastructure in general as do not have the oil reserves the US has.

[truebrit71]

35. Public Transit - National Health Care - Better schools

....

[Crunchy Frog]

40. I know, I've spent time in Europe.

They also have excellent public transportation, and they tend to structure their communities in such a way that it is easy to get around by foot or by bicycle.

They also have a much stronger social safety net than we do, which makes some expenses less onerous to them then they would be to Americans who struggle to pay for things like healthcare and child care.

It's really comparing apples and oranges.

[frylock]

41. they also have socialized healthcare, shorter work weeks, longer vacations..

better public transportation, etc.

[Estrella Fugaz]

46. Norway "uses oil profits to fund free college education"

From the article.

Oh! What happens when one reads the whole thing.

[rafeh1]

47. the interesting question is German

Germany has no minimum wage but the average wage is around 18 euros ($23 hr?). On top of that the employee gets 2 years of unemployment and almost the month of august off.

Gasoline costs almost 7 euros ($8.5?)

Given extremely high primary inputs labor and transportation

How does Germany compete with China as the worlds top exporter?

According to Republican theory need $5 hr and $2 per gallon for US to be competitive?

[Throd]

48. My state is larger than most European countries.

[1000words]

49. There's a map, too?

[shenmue]

51. To be fair, they offset this cost with trains, buses and bikes

Worthwhile investments, all.

[deathrind]

52. I would glady pay EU prices.

If I had acces to the outstanding public transportation or healthcare they have.

[Bluenorthwest]

53. Europe also does not allow straights to discriminate aginst gay people, but the US does and I've

sure never seen you claim that we shouldn't because they don't. And they don't. So what you want is yet another contribution from people whom you refuse to treat equally except when it comes to your precious taxation. 'No rights, but endless fees' is not what Europe does.

[Bluenorthwest]

54. And how do they compare on health care costs? Did you advocate for European style health care

during the creation of the ACA? Did you make OP's saying 'In the UK they pay nothing at point of service!!!!!!' ?
If not, you seem a tad selective.