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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFuck Ralph Nader
and fuck everyone who drags him out to bash progressives with him.
otherone
(973 posts)but I am in the minority..
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)I object to him being used as a cudgel against liberals by people who if they had any political honesty would reregister as republicans
otherone
(973 posts)have a great day
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)replying to you
GeorgeGist
(25,321 posts)And some call liberals 'wimps'.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)and I think its the conservatives who call liberals wimps
lostincalifornia
(3,639 posts)SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)he is used by right wing trolls to divide democrats.
lostincalifornia
(3,639 posts)"being used"
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)by rightwingers to smear progressives
he has no say in it
so....not actually a comment on HIS intellect
lostincalifornia
(3,639 posts)SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)jeb bush Kathy harris and the scotus?
when a well planned coup is enacted by the governor of a state, in favor of his brother, and has the assistance of the election chief of the state,somehow nader is more to blame?
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)for progressives and Libertarians to unite?
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)otherone
(973 posts)I encourage all my GOP friends to support Rand Paul in the GOP primaries.
As far as the general, Hillary Clinton will get my vote of course.
riqster
(13,986 posts)otherone
(973 posts)peace and low stress
riqster
(13,986 posts)otherone
(973 posts)I personally don't think it can be done.
riqster
(13,986 posts)lostincalifornia
(3,639 posts)someone like him is their candidate. It looks like their wonder boy chris christie is out
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)that his problem is he isn't so good with people.
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)Weird ain't it.
Autumn
(45,091 posts)I agree with what you say.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)I am sure a bogswarm will appear to cheer this on while not realizing the intention
nader is so far from relevant today that to bring him out to bash others with should only be seen as what it is
RIGHTWING TROLLERY!
riqster
(13,986 posts)I would add, though, that there are a few Naderoids out there, and they deserve to be called out when encountered.
But for nearly all progressives, the comparison is inaccurate and inappropriate.
lostincalifornia
(3,639 posts)Autumn
(45,091 posts)No where else.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)easier
jeb bush Kathy harris and the scotus did that
not nader
but he is a handy whipping boy for the rightwingers
Autumn
(45,091 posts)In fact, IMO it's worse than idiotic, it's republican cover. Jeb bush, Harris and the supreme court, all republicans who get a pass.
frylock
(34,825 posts)riqster
(13,986 posts)Bush and Harris, and the rest of the VRWC were much more directly culpable. But we cannot say, in a race that came down to several hundred votes, that any of the factors whose impact was measured in the thousands of votes made no difference.
In other words, it wasn't all Nader's fault. It wasn't even mostly Nader's fault. But he did have a part in the outcome.
Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)Nobody owns potential votes....
If anyone is to blame it is the voters who voted for him...
riqster
(13,986 posts)It's a bit of a chicken-egg scenario, I guess. But I'd say if he hadn't run, then no one could have voted for him, so he bears some responsibility.
It isn't binary-"Nader had nothing to do with it" or "It's all Nader's fault". Math says he bears partial responsibility since several thousand people in Florida checked a box that Nader asked to be put on the ballot. And elections, at sevens and last, are mathematical beasties.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)Yeh, there were people involved in cheating Gore, but Nader, with his ego (and taking Rethuglican money) made it happen. Those denying that have their head as far in the sand (nice way of putting it) as the creationists and the climate change deniers.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)You can't reason someone OUT OF a position that they didn't reason themselves INTO.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)What the fuck is so hard to understand about that?
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)300 fucking thousand registered florida democrats voted for bush
nader means nothing compared to that number
riqster
(13,986 posts)And the actions of the Bushies, Harris, Nader et. al. were the reasons for that slim margin.
No slim margin, no ruling.
Autumn
(45,091 posts)Nader had every right to run. I am for any person from any party running for any office, it's their right to do so. Democrats in office or running for office don't want to step up and get Dems out to vote, it's their fault if they lose.
By the way, what Democrats spoke out against the theft in 2000?
I hope in 2016 there is a varied field of politicians running, it beats the fuck out of listening to two politicians running for president agreeing with each other.
riqster
(13,986 posts)This site is for people who want to elect Dems. Not those who support spoilers who enable Repub victories.
Seriously. It really says that.
Autumn
(45,091 posts)It's not election season and I am not campaigning for anyone.
Vote for Democrats.
Winning elections is important therefore, advocating in favor of Republican nominees or in favor of third-party spoiler candidates that could split the vote and throw an election to our conservative opponents is never permitted on Democratic Underground. But that does not mean that DU members are required to always be completely supportive of Democrats. During the ups-and-downs of politics and policy-making, it is perfectly normal to have mixed feelings about the Democratic officials we worked hard to help elect. When we are not in the heat of election season, members are permitted to post strong criticism or disappointment with our Democratic elected officials, or to express ambivalence about voting for them. In Democratic primaries, members may support whomever they choose. But when general election season begins, DU members must support Democratic nominees (EXCEPT in rare cases where were a non-Democrat is most likely to defeat the conservative alternative, or where there is no possibility of splitting the liberal vote and inadvertently throwing the election to the conservative alternative). For presidential contests, election season begins when both major-party nominees become clear. For non-presidential contests, election season begins on Labor Day. Everyone here on DU needs to work together to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of American government. If you are bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for our candidates during election season, we'll assume you are rooting for the other side.
Every American citizen has a Constitutional right to run for President if you meet the qualifications, no matter what party you decide to run in. No getting around it. It's up to those politicians in those various parties to get that VOTE , that's just the way it works.
Right, we support Democrats here, I have never advocated or voted for anyone other than a Democrat, except for Bernie. I support him with my whole heart and soul. This is also a message board for discussion of all things political.
riqster
(13,986 posts)Make up your mind.
Autumn
(45,091 posts)Can you prove to me he had no Constitutional right to run for president in 2000? He had that right. Your supreme court that you seem to support stepped in and appointed bush. Do you object to that and hate them?
It's a little to late now for me to support Nader and I worked for Gore. 2000 was soooo yesterday.
I hate those fuckers, they should have been impeached before bush was sworn in. I blame them, along with jeb and harris.
riqster
(13,986 posts)First, it wasn't Nader's fault, it's because the Dems are too much like the Repubs.
Second, denial of the anti-Dem words and support for Repub enablers that they just uttered.
Third, an unjustified attack based on something the loyal Dem voter never said.
I've been dealing with this predictable behavior since 2000, and it hasn't changed except in detail.
And this is why Nader keeps being brought up and used as a cudgel, most often hitting those who are not Naderoids: because the Nader supporters like this one did not learn Thing One from the 2000 election, and would happily lead the lot of us down the same path as they advocated then.
Doing the same thing will lead to the same result. And anyone here who wants a 2000 redux in 2014 is not a friend to progressives or Democrats.
Autumn, thank you for providing an example of this insidious and ultimately destructive mindset. A very good evening to you.
Autumn
(45,091 posts)SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)I guess you had your coffee?
riqster
(13,986 posts)I view those events as a partial reason for existence of DU. And as such, relevant.
lostincalifornia
(3,639 posts)to do was call for a recount of the entire state, not just selected areas. The SC would have had an issue stopping that from occurring.
I do not believe the Gore campaign was counseled properly.
The other problem, Nader created just enough dissent among progressive to cause the election in certain states to be to close. In fact he went out of his way with inane implications that there was not any difference between both parties, which is pure garbage. Just taking the justices on the SC appointed by Democrats verses republicans tell you that doesn't hold water
Autumn
(45,091 posts)I think he was wrong, at that time. If he said it now I'm afraid a lot more Democrats would agree with him on the lack of differences between them.
lostincalifornia
(3,639 posts)issues are still widely apart. What Nader alluded in that remark is hyperbole, and I believe it still is
riqster
(13,986 posts)Progressives as a rule did not get money from the Bushistas during the 2000 campaign, for instance.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)so why is he dragged out to flog progressives with on such a regular basis?
he had his day but now is not relevant
riqster
(13,986 posts)In those very rare cases, it is instructive to draw a parallel so as to learn from history.
But in almost every other instance, it is a flawed analogy.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)discussing stuff....and in a civil fashion!
am I on DU?
riqster
(13,986 posts)My more assholish personality will resurface later on, I am sure, after enough
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)to unite.
So people are responding.
get the red out
(13,466 posts)is all about Ralph Nader.
riqster
(13,986 posts)By the bye, your screen name is awesome.
get the red out
(13,466 posts)Estrella Fugaz
(14 posts)Hes nuts.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,234 posts)SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,234 posts)SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)while I have no doubts you have on occasion had an idea, I think the use of the word "good" to describe them may be inappropriate
Tarheel_Dem
(31,234 posts)SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)before, you perhaps had a glimmer of an idea
maybe more an idea of what an idea might possibly be
but now you have displayed your ignorance of any idea at all
to stay equal let me display my own ignorance
so you will feel more in common company
I am ignorant of what inference you intend to make
the only old tree place I know is under my carambola tree
it has become obvious you are too clumsy to work nuance
so why don't you say whatever vague guilt by association type of thing it is you seem to have an idea about?
Tarheel_Dem
(31,234 posts)SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)so many baseless allegations to make
so many aspersions to cast
good luck on your quest to find an idea
good night sweet prince/ss may the winds carry you to the tree you love so well
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)and his flustered defenders.
foo_bar
(4,193 posts)He actually ran as a Democrat in the presidential primary (I think Mass was the only state where he made the ballot), but the campaign was fairly anemic considering there were about a dozen of us to rally the troops with our kindergarten quality arts 'n crafts supplies, but I think he took around 5% of the vote (having his name at the top of the ballot didn't hurt.) He gave great speeches that nobody heard, and Clinton seemed like the worst of the bunch in terms of centrist positioning (e.g., the death penalty, "Sister Souljah moment", "I have a plan to end welfare as we know it" , tho I would have been happy with Tsongas or Moonbeam or Harkin or even Bob Kerrey, but I was a little naive about the tastes of non-New England voters.
Anyway, I wouldn't fuck him, and I think he went off the rails a bit meddling in the affairs of party machinery instead of focusing on his core competency, which is building the sorts of grassroots organizations that might make a Nader-like candidacy plausible in 50 years, but I still think he's lovable in his quixotic Nadery way:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Nader#Television_appearances
libodem
(19,288 posts)FUCK NADER!
question everything
(47,479 posts)I suppose I could search DU to find recent posts about Nader but why can't you explain your post?
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)of nader out into the gutter for another round of bashing which turns into a bash of progressives in general
I am in florida and nader is less relevant today than he was election day 2000
in the huge list of things that can be said to have mattered most in the coup de bush nader aint on it
I got levels of nepotistic state politicians and relatives of George w
I got harris the lipsticked pig of an election supervisor
I got gores shitty lawyers and their bad advice.......
nader doesn't count in an equation where 300,thousand registered democrats vote for bush
300,000
yet somehow he is still dragged out for a round of beat the corpse and bait the progressives
im tired of it and I say fuck him and everyone who uses him to bash progressives
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)Auntie Bush
(17,528 posts)U4ikLefty
(4,012 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
craigmatic
(4,510 posts)can't win. He should run for congress or governor instead so he could win and make a difference that way. If this was anything else other than politics we';d call it attention whoring or trolling.
clg311
(119 posts)Expanding Reagan's racist drug war, sanctions against Iraq that killed 400,000,bombing Serbia, radical deregulation of the financial sector, repealing Glass-Steagle, NAFTA etc is same as Republican policies except for Serbia. There is no reason Al Gore's record would be any different. He also selected a warmonger, Joe Lieberman as VP which was a big FU to the progressive wing of the democratic party. Ralph Nader was much more of a Democrat than DINO's that the Democratic party have put on the ballot since 1992.