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pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 12:48 PM Apr 2014

The 2nd appeals trial judge in the Amanda Knox case just revealed why they decided

she was guilty. The full opinion hasn't been translated into English yet but all the reports mention a key point: verbal testimony offered by Rudy Guede in his own defense in a separate, fast-track trial:
testimony by Guede in a separate trial that was entered in the form of a "statement" into Amanda's and Raffaele's trial -- in which their attorneys were prohibited from questioning Guede.

In other words, the man who took the equivalent of a "no contest" plea in the U.S., so that all the evidence in his trial was entered into evidence without dispute, claims the girls were arguing about money. Guede's own DNA was found on the victim's purse, and both inside and on her body; and he also left a palm print on her pillow, and feces in a toilet.

No evidence linked to Amanda was found on Meredith or in the murder room, but Guede says he heard the girls arguing while he was pooping. That "evidence" was used to re-convict Amanda. Even though the court that found Guede guilty ruled that he was lying when he said he was in the apartment to have consensual sex with the victim.

The Court believed Guede's testimony about Amanda even though there was also no evidence that he had ever even met Raffaele Sollecito, Amanda's boyfriend, who was also charged with the murder. Or that he had ever spoken to Amanda Knox, although they once attended the same party in the downstairs apartment.

And they are using Guede's testimony to condemn Amanda and Raffaele without giving them a chance to question him about his self-serving testimony against them -- testimony in his fast-track trial that, because he agreed not to contest the evidence against him, resulted in a reduction of his own sentence to 16 years. (He is already out on day release.)

In both the US and in the European Convention on Human Rights, a key civil right is the right to question anyone who gives testimony against you. This is also supposed to be the case in Italy, but it turns out there is a major loophole, and Guede walked through it. It doesn't apply, in Italy, to someone who's already been convicted of a crime.

http://www.hri.org/docs/ECHR50.html

European Convention on Human Rights

ARTICLE 6

In the determination of his civil rights and obligations or of any criminal charge against him, everyone is entitled to a fair and public hearing within a reasonable time by an independent and impartial tribunal established by law. Judgement shall be pronounced publicly by the press and public may be excluded from all or part of the trial in the interest of morals, public order or national security in a democratic society, where the interests of juveniles or the protection of the private life of the parties so require, or the extent strictly necessary in the opinion of the court in special circumstances where publicity would prejudice the interests of justice.

Everyone charged with a criminal offence shall be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law.

Everyone charged with a criminal offence has the following minimum rights:

(a) to be informed promptly, in a language which he understands and in detail, of the nature and cause of the accusation against him;

(b) to have adequate time and the facilities for the preparation of his defense;

(c) to defend himself in person or through legal assistance of his own choosing or, if he has not sufficient means to pay for legal assistance, to be given it free when the interests of justice so require;

(d) to examine or have examined witnesses against him and to obtain the attendance and examination of witnesses on his behalf under the same conditions as witnesses against him;

(e) to have the free assistance of an interpreter if he cannot understand or speak the language used in court.

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Gothmog

(145,293 posts)
1. The Italian justice system is based on the Napoleonic code
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 01:20 PM
Apr 2014

This type of testimony would never be allowed in the US. The verdict in this case is so weak that Knox will never by subject to extradition

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
2. I think you are right. I feel bad about Raffaele Sollecito, who has refused
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 01:53 PM
Apr 2014

to lie about her to save his own skin. He's the one most at risk here.

 

davidn3600

(6,342 posts)
3. Italy is claiming Knox and Kercher had a fight over money the day of the killing
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 04:14 PM
Apr 2014
MILAN (AP) — An Italian court that convicted Amanda Knox in her roommate's 2007 murder said in lengthy reasoning made public Tuesday that the victim's wounds indicate multiple aggressors, and that the two exchange students fought over money on the night of the murder.

The appellate court in Florence explained the January guilty verdicts against the American student and her former boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito in a 337-page document that examined both the evidence and the motive.

The court said that a third person convicted in the murder, Rudy Hermann Guede, did not act alone, and cited the nature of the victim's wounds. It noted that at least two knives were used to attack 21-year-old Meredith Kercher and that there were also finger imprints on her body, indicating she had been restrained.

The court said there was ample evidence of a bad relationship between the two roommates, despite Knox's attempts to play down differences in court, and cited statements by Guede under police questioning that Kercher had blamed Knox for taking money from the British student's room.

"It is a matter of fact that at a certain point in the evening events accelerated; the English girl was attacked by Amanda Marie Knox, by Raffaele Sollecito, who was backing up his girlfriend, and by Rudy Hermann Guede, and constrained within her own room," the document said.


http://news.yahoo.com/italy-court-knox-kercher-fought-day-murder-150816135.html

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
4. Yes -- on the basis of the testimony of the man whose DNA was on Meredith's purse.
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 04:17 PM
Apr 2014

(And inside her vagina and on her clothing.) His statement saying he heard the girls that night argue about money was entered into the trial of Amanda and Raffaele, but they were not allowed to have their lawyers question him in their trial.

He got a reduced sentence of 16 years for agreeing to take a separate fast-track trial and not dispute the evidence brought against him -- evidence the prosecution claimed implicated Amanda and Raffaele, but they weren't allowed to answer. And in his trial he claimed he didn't rape or murder Meredith, but they had consensual sex, and that he heard the girls argue when he was on the toilet.

He left his DNA in and on Meredith's body and on her purse, and a palm print on her pillow, and his poop in a toilet. There was not a speck of physical evidence linking Amanda and Meredith -- and only Guede's testimony placing Amanda at the crime on the night of the murder.

Guede's already out on work-release after 8 years in prison.

 

davidn3600

(6,342 posts)
6. Well the motive is different in every trial...
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 06:21 PM
Apr 2014

First it was the sex games gone bad. Now the fighting over money...

If I were the Kercher family, I'd be a bit more pissed off that the Italian police and prosecutors can't even seem to get their theory straight. Their (Kerchers) lawyer is probably seeing dollar signs if they can get the conviction to stick. But the truth has gotten lost in all this mess.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
9. There was yet another motive put forth by the prosecution in the current appeal:
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 06:29 PM
Apr 2014

that Meredith yelled at Amanda because Guede had left his unflushed poop in a third roommate's toilet, and that caused Amanda and Raffaele to rise up and kill her.

Their lawyers had a chance to dispute that argument in court, but not the new one -- that just appeared in the new "Motivation" report.

Raffaele inherited a significant sum from his mother, which the Kercher's lawyer no doubt wants to get his hands on.

The Kerchers seem to have been completely hoodwinked by their lawyer and the tabloid press in Britain that initially led the charge against Amanda and Raffaele.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
7. Raffaele's attorney has spoken out.
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 06:23 PM
Apr 2014

He's at even more serious risk than Amanda since she's here, unless and until she's extradited. He's a true hero because if he had offered false testimony against her (said she was not with him in his apartment at the time of the crime), then he wouldn't have spent the four years in prison he already has, and he wouldn't be facing decades more now.

http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2014/04/italy_court_amanda_knox_delive.html

Sollecito's lawyer, Giulia Bongiorno, tore apart the reasoning, saying "from the motive, to weapon, to the DNA, it is a string of errors."

"I can't wait until they fix a day to hear us for the appeal, because honestly the verdict is so full of errors, illogical elements and contradictions, that I strongly believe it will be overturned," Bongiorno said.

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