General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSo Trayvon's last words were, "You got me!"
According to Killerman's daddy.
They watch way too much TV.
It's time for his dad to crawl back under that rock!
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)CatWoman
(79,302 posts)"you dirty rat"
Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,501 posts)For making me laugh
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)"SAY 'ALLO TO MY LIL' FRIEN'!!"
"And I would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for you meddling kids!!"
"OK I've reloaded!!! You think you big-time? You're gonna fucking DIE BIG-TIME!! HERE COMES THA PAIN!!"
Initech
(100,079 posts)Lint Head
(15,064 posts)eShirl
(18,494 posts)vaberella
(24,634 posts)bayareamike
(602 posts)It's a fabricated story filled with "Die Hard"-esque lines. Only people of privilege -- who have never experienced institutional violence or discrimination -- would believe that Zimmerman's account is authentic.
Response to bayareamike (Reply #3)
daniel7743 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to daniel7743 (Reply #16)
daniel7743 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Mariana
(14,857 posts)it sounded to me like just about everything he said was laying the groundwork for his self-defense plea. He lost it babbling about assholes always getting away and fucking coons (or punks or whatever), but everything else was to convince the police that if he ended up shooting this guy, it was because he "had to".
Edited to add: I don't think we can assume that Trayvon did any of the things that Zimmerman said during that phone call.
Response to Mariana (Reply #29)
daniel7743 This message was self-deleted by its author.
SecularMotion
(7,981 posts)Welcome to DU Daniel!
Thanks for the time you are spending on research and sharing your findings.
BiggJawn
(23,051 posts)"Quick example- if a permit holder sees a fight going on outside in the street outside his house he will strap on his gun and go out there and confront the combatants (often teenagers). He may call the police first or not, but if he does call the police he will be sure to run out there before they show up and take matters into his own hands with a hidden gun at his side. "
Know quite a few permit holders, now do ya?
Yeah, gotta "Strap" on that gun and go busting out there like Yosemite Sam... Fucking bullshit. Is that what Brady puts in their literature to scare the NPR/Volvo crowd?
Response to BiggJawn (Reply #48)
daniel7743 This message was self-deleted by its author.
unionworks
(3,574 posts)... is spot on.
unionworks
(3,574 posts)Trayvons killing. Quite simply, they are saying "we know how to follow the proper script to make this fall within the guidelines of self defense, there's not a fucking thing you can do about, no charges will ever be filed, so we can tack on something silly and stupid because we are not taking this seriously". That's what "you got me" means to them
csziggy
(34,136 posts)Do you have a link to your study? I'd like to take a look at it.
One of the times this tale by Zimmerman's father was being shown when the line, "You are going to die tonight!" or "You are going to die now!" came up, the response of one of the people was, "Who talks like that?"
The other reaction from the other people on the set was that who would say that when they do not have the weapon? That certainly would not be the comment I would make if I realized the person I'd been struggling with had a gun!
Response to csziggy (Reply #26)
daniel7743 This message was self-deleted by its author.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Good luck with that.
Mariana
(14,857 posts)I was reading some of the threads about this story over at FreeRepublic. Oh my god, what a freakshow. The fake pictures that are supposed to be of Trayvon. The ridiculous far-out scenarios. The speculations, wild exaggerations and total fabrications. The racism. The paranoia.
Here's what strikes me, though: Reading this stuff, it seems pretty obvious to me that few, if any, of Zimmerman's defenders over there actually believe his story. Few if any of them believe the lies that are being spread about Trayvon, about how he was this deadly dangerous criminal who'd kill someone as soon as look at them. They're putting on a damn good show of pretending to believe it all, but it's an act. They damn well know it didn't go down as Zimmerman said, but if any poster says so, they all turn on him viciously.
It's fascinating to watch, but it blows my mind. What the fuck is going on with those people? With all the information that has come out in the last few days, they're getting more shrill and more desperate, but they're showing absolutely no sign of letting go of this position, that they don't even believe in the first place.
Any insights? What the hell is going on?
csziggy
(34,136 posts)What you are saying is really interesting and would be very timely if marketed now.
While I am a gun owner, my gun has only been fired for target practice and to take out varmints (rattlesnakes close to the barn and raccoons around the house).
A friend of mine tried to get me to join her concealed carry class for her group of ladies. I can't see the point. I'm not going to carry a gun around. If I felt the need to do so, I'd carry it openly in a holster on my hip where it would be more accessible and be a visual deterrent.
But if I felt so unsafe that I saw that as a need, I would either work to make my community safer or I would move to a safer community. And carrying guns around as a way of solving problems is, in my opinion, not the way to make my community safer!
I'd not be interested in checking out a concealed permit forum. I'd be a troll and would start a firestorm or be banned really quickly.
Response to csziggy (Reply #42)
daniel7743 This message was self-deleted by its author.
csziggy
(34,136 posts)I folded up last night, so didn't see your messages until now. Still working on my first morning coffee and I am NOT awake yet.
Response to csziggy (Reply #42)
daniel7743 This message was self-deleted by its author.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)"center of the chest, instead of center of mass"
Free clue- they're the same thing. Must've missed that in your thorough 'research'.
"heavily coded jargon" -- let me guess, you've deciphered the 'secret code' and it means they're secretly planning to kill someone.
I think you need a bit more tinfoil.
Response to X_Digger (Reply #46)
daniel7743 This message was self-deleted by its author.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)While you try to find a cite for it, here's an image of leonardo's vitruvian man with a standard target superimposed.
Notice how the red dot (the center of the target) lines up with the top of the Xiphoid process, the same 'center of the chest' that you use as a reference point when doing CPR.
[div class='excerpt']"don't act like I am some armature [sic] "
I'll treat you like an amateur until you demonstrate otherwise. You've not done so yet.
[div class='excerpt']However firearm instructors that advocate concealed carry, and especially the ones that write books and articles on the subject, usually are very opposed to the theory of shooting at center of mass. Instead they argue for shoot at center of chest, aim for the heart. They say the concealed carry permit holder should do this cause it increase the stopping power of the bullet. This is certainly true, however it also greatly increase the lethality of the bullet as well.
Please provide a cite. We'll wait. ('aim for the heart' isn't 'center of the chest', btw. Which is it?)
[div class='excerpt']On top of this they also often advocate that after you shoot the "bad guy" twice in the chest you should also shoot him in the head if he is still a threat. Once again if you really are in a deadly situation that you could not have avoid and the target was still attacking after you shot him twice in the chest (very unlikely) shooting him in the head might not be a bad idea. But once again the concealed carry vigilante uses this to shoot them in the head if they are still standing after being shot twice in the chest, thus making sure they can;t contradict your version of the story you are about the tell the police. If you read the case histories of concealed carry shootings you will find that in many of the stories the concealed carry permit holders tell the police are very much like Zimmerman's with the cheesy B movie lines put into the mouth of the "bad guy", (like- tonight is the night you die), that is now dead.
That is called the tueller drill, and is practiced by police everywhere, especially after the north hollywood bank robbery and shootout. It was designed as a defense against perpetrators wearing body armor. But as people started carrying smaller caliber handguns for concealed carry, the chances of center mass shots stopping a large perpetrator decreased.
You've obviously never worked in an emergency room or talked to an emergency room physician. If you ever do, ask them how many people have stumbled into the ER on their own power with a chest wound.
Response to X_Digger (Reply #61)
daniel7743 This message was self-deleted by its author.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)You've quoted Bird, who's telling you that you're making the same mistake he cautions against!!!
LOL!!
"Center of Mass" is not where cops are trained to shoot. It's "Center Mass". Note the site below:
http://www.policeone.com/Officer-Safety/articles/3468112-Shooting-center-mass-Shooting-to-kill-or-to-stop/
[div class='excerpt']Center mass. Its operations central for your body, houses your heart, a most important muscle that sends blood to all parts of your frame. Your lungs are also here and they are necessary for the balanced exchange of oxygen and carbon dioxide. You got nerves, lots of nerves that pass through center mass. The vagus nerve for instance represents the golden highway of neurological life sustaining information between your brain and vital organs. This nerve is the master switch for heart rate and blood pressure. Turn off that switch, empty the pump of blood or puncture a lung and a person is likely to diequickly. This folks is where we are going to put our bullets.
...
Two shots to the body, center mass...follow it with one to the head. The use of a firearm is deadly force, folks and your shots need to stop the threat. Remember, the ultimate responsibility for taking another human life is yours. No one else can make that decision for you. You have to be prepared both physically and mentally. To stop a deadly threat you have to know when and where to shoot. I want to see good target placement and a tight group on your chest shots. Are there any questions? OK... Is the line ready? The line is ready... on the command... draw and fire!
You think that cops shoot for a suspect's navel?!? (or slightly below that, actually, on men.)
It'd be funny if you didn't miss your own mistake- taking a physics term, assuming that it's what cops use, then pretending to be horrified when you find out otherwise- except it's not cops you think are doing this, it's everyone else who carries concealed.
Tell me, where is the center of the target located on my image above? *snort*
Response to X_Digger (Reply #78)
daniel7743 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to daniel7743 (Reply #80)
daniel7743 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to daniel7743 (Reply #81)
daniel7743 This message was self-deleted by its author.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)A gut shot (center of mass) isn't likely to stop a threat. No cop shoots for someone's gut.
Response to X_Digger (Reply #91)
daniel7743 This message was self-deleted by its author.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)Response to X_Digger (Reply #91)
daniel7743 This message was self-deleted by its author.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)'Midsection' in this instance as opposed to a hand or leg.
Fucking duh.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)That's axiomatic.
In a perfect world, you shoot for the area that is the best target- most effective at stopping the attack and least likely to miss. (Especially true with the adrenaline dump, tunnel vision, and shakes that accompany being in a fight for your life.)
That is not the 'center of mass', which on a man is below the navel. I doubt if you asked Sgt. Ronstadt, he'd say that he aims for a point below a man's navel.
Have a watch-
And another..
And another..
Response to X_Digger (Reply #96)
daniel7743 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to X_Digger (Reply #96)
daniel7743 This message was self-deleted by its author.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)I think you're taking a term that you read, googled it, came up with a different location, then imagined malicious intent when you saw others shooting at a different area than you imagined.
The core problem is that you made assumptions, and went off half-cocked (pun very much intended).
Re your problem with 'midsection' -- the whole torso is the 'midsection', when you're comparing to arms and legs.
Oh, I added more videos to the post above. The last one is from Vancouver, British Columbia. So unless you think those Canucks are particularly vicious, *snort*- you're full of it.
Here's one more from BC-
Response to X_Digger (Reply #102)
daniel7743 This message was self-deleted by its author.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)As I posted elsewhere, old police targets had a guy squinting over a revolver. The center of that target is square in the chest.
Why would a target be used with the bulls eye somewhere other than the center?!?
In years past, cops were taught to fire from the hip, but they were aiming at the same place.
Notice the date on that one- 1955, and look where they're aiming at.
eta: fixed image
Response to X_Digger (Reply #96)
daniel7743 This message was self-deleted by its author.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)Here's an oooold police training target..
Notice where the center of the target is- the middle finger of his left hand- a straight line across his chest to the armpit.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)The fact that you've missed it, in spite of his EXACT WORDS- would be hilarious if it weren't so sad.
If that is you getting technical, I'm frankly not impressed.
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2006/centerofmass.shtml
[div class='excerpt']A person's center of mass is slightly below his/her belly button, which is nearly the geometric center of a person.
Police do not shoot at "Center of Mass", they shoot at "Center Mass".
One is a physics term, the other is operational parlance for the spot right above the Xiphoid process.
Response to X_Digger (Reply #86)
Post removed
Response to Post removed (Reply #88)
daniel7743 This message was self-deleted by its author.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)When you reply to yourself (rather than me), it breaks the flow of conversation.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)*sigh*
Ignorance this intractable must be intentional.
Response to daniel7743 (Reply #77)
daniel7743 This message was self-deleted by its author.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)When you superimpose the images, you can see where the bullseye is.
I used the same target that you did, but mine's green. I just superimposed it over a real man (figuratively speaking).
The fact that you've not thought about where the bullseye is on a real person, plus your confusion about 'center of mass' v 'center mass'-- has led you down a merry path where you see all kinds of ulterior motives.
If it weren't so sad, it'd be hilarious.
Response to X_Digger (Reply #82)
daniel7743 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to X_Digger (Reply #82)
daniel7743 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to daniel7743 (Reply #85)
daniel7743 This message was self-deleted by its author.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)No more 'cops shoot at center of mass'? (Which is actually below the navel, lol!!)
Good, glad we cleared that up.
Bird is recommending the area that is the quickest to stop an attack.. quoting you quoting him..
[div class='excerpt']"If you are making hits in the chest area and if your attacker is still coming on, it is time to shift your point of aim...."
Which presupposes that the point of aim was different initially, say slightly lower, at center mass. If your attacker is advancing even though you're hitting them in the chest, aim higher. The point is to stop the attack.
Response to X_Digger (Reply #90)
daniel7743 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to X_Digger (Reply #46)
daniel7743 This message was self-deleted by its author.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)Throw some more psycho-babble at us, this just gets better and better.
Quick, tell me what I'm thinking now..
LOL!
NoGOPZone
(2,971 posts)not the chest, although it varies by height, weight, gender and body build.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Where_is_centre_of_mass_on_human_body
more detailed explanation
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2006/centerofmass.shtml
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)'Center Mass' to a cop is right at the top of the Xiphoid process (that bit of cartilage at the bottom of your breastbone).
Cops aren't trained to shoot below someone's navel.
http://www.policeone.com/Officer-Safety/articles/3468112-Shooting-center-mass-Shooting-to-kill-or-to-stop/
[div class='excerpt']Center mass. Its operations central for your body, houses your heart, a most important muscle that sends blood to all parts of your frame. Your lungs are also here and they are necessary for the balanced exchange of oxygen and carbon dioxide. You got nerves, lots of nerves that pass through center mass. The vagus nerve for instance represents the golden highway of neurological life sustaining information between your brain and vital organs. This nerve is the master switch for heart rate and blood pressure. Turn off that switch, empty the pump of blood or puncture a lung and a person is likely to diequickly. This folks is where we are going to put our bullets.
...
Two shots to the body, center mass...follow it with one to the head. The use of a firearm is deadly force, folks and your shots need to stop the threat. Remember, the ultimate responsibility for taking another human life is yours. No one else can make that decision for you. You have to be prepared both physically and mentally. To stop a deadly threat you have to know when and where to shoot. I want to see good target placement and a tight group on your chest shots. Are there any questions? OK... Is the line ready? The line is ready... on the command... draw and fire!
NoGOPZone
(2,971 posts)my own, thank you
Now as to what cops interpret as the center of mass i don't know, but since it's a physics concept I think I'll stay with that definition. Your comment about what they're trained to shoot at is pretty much gratuitous as it relates to nothing I wrote
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)One is a physics term, one is an operational area used by cops and those who carry for defense.
Sorry if I didn't make that clear. They're two different things.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)*snort*
Response to X_Digger (Reply #45)
daniel7743 This message was self-deleted by its author.
BiggJawn
(23,051 posts)"The do this cause they hope to get "lucky" and get to kill someone legally. "
What a steaming load of fucking bullshit!
Stop jacking off to Brady literature.
Response to BiggJawn (Reply #47)
daniel7743 This message was self-deleted by its author.
jpak
(41,758 posts)and thank you
and welcome to DU
Spazito
(50,349 posts)mixed with Gunsmoke episodes.
Thirties mob movie dialogue and/or sheriff versus gunslinger dialogue.
Appalling, absolutely appalling.
Ecumenist
(6,086 posts)James Cagney/Edward G Robinson ..EXACTLY. Wonder if Daddy watched them growing up?
Spazito
(50,349 posts)interview on Fox, the things Trayvon supposedly said to Zimmerman immediately reminded me of those movies, the trite dialogue, completely unbelievable and appalling, imo.
I bet Judge Daddy and maybe son too are fans of the Turner Classic Movie channel. You find those old movies there quite often.
you beat me to it
see upthread
trumad
(41,692 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)We now know the author of the B movie lines the other mouthpieces have been spewing.
safeinOhio
(32,685 posts)when the autopsy report is released.
DefenseLawyer
(11,101 posts)Tom Ripley
(4,945 posts)CatWoman
(79,302 posts)and I'm ashamed
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)But lordly, Hollywood type dialogue that is this contrived...
sadbear
(4,340 posts)a la Fred Sanford
csziggy
(34,136 posts)Robert J. Zimmerman, Trayvon shooter's dad, a magistrate in Virginia court system
By Joy-Ann Reid
6:21 PM on 03/29/2012
George Zimmerman's father served as a Supreme Court magistrate in the Virginia court system until five years ago, serving as a court officer who dealt with criminal cases.
The Virginia court system is subdivided into supreme and circuit courts, lower courts and magistrates, who perform judicial functions such as conducting "probable cause" hearings on criminal complaints brought by police and determining whether a person who has been arrested is eligible for bail.
From the Virginia judicial website, it's clear that Zimmerman's duties had much to do with dealing with people under arrest:In many instances, a citizen's first contact with Virginia's Judicial System comes through the office of the magistrate. A principal function of the magistrate is to provide an independent, unbiased review of complaints of criminal conduct brought to the office by law enforcement or the general public. Magistrate duties include issuing various types of processes such as arrest warrants, summonses, bonds, search warrants, subpoenas, and certain civil warrants. Magistrates also conduct bail hearings in instances in which an individual is arrested on a warrant charging him or her with a criminal offense. Magistrates provide services on an around-the-clock basis, conducting hearings in person or through the use of videoconferencing systems.
The magistrate system for the Commonwealth (of Virginia) is divided into eight regions, and each magistrate is authorized to exercise his or her powers throughout the magisterial region for which he or she is appointed. Each region is comprised of between three and five judicial districts. There are magistrate offices located throughout Virginia, including at least one in each of Virginia's 32 judicial districts.
More: http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/robert-j-zimmerman-trayvon-shooters-dad-a-magistrate-in-virginia-court-system.php
txwhitedove
(3,928 posts)Good grief.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)On the 13th green.
CatWoman
(79,302 posts)they were: "you dirty rat"
malaise
(269,022 posts)Help help help!!!
Ship of Fools
(1,453 posts)clutching my chest, when my little brother pretended to slay
me with his magical villain-slaying sword, or another weapon du jour.
"Ughhhhh!! You GOT me!!"
Pathetic twit.
maxrandb
(15,330 posts)"ooooh, you dirty-rat"
"come and get me copper"
"I coulda' been a contender"
and
"I'm your Huckleberry"
These wingnuts really are trying to take us back to the 1950's!
lunatica
(53,410 posts)CatWoman
(79,302 posts)I know this is a serious subject, but that is too funny beyond words
geardaddy
(24,931 posts)Yipeekiyay motherfucker.
WI_DEM
(33,497 posts)Raine
(30,540 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)Justice4allofus
(72 posts)"You got me" after being shot in the chest? Please.
SecularMotion
(7,981 posts)EmeraldCityGrl
(4,310 posts)johnfunk
(6,113 posts)"I gots ta know..." [br]
polly7
(20,582 posts)Either way, it's horrible to imagine.
pokerfan
(27,677 posts)It's not exactly John le Carre:
You are going to die, tonight. You are going to die, now!
You got me!
Six Problems with Zimmerman's Story
Bucky
(54,013 posts)If after, then there's no reason to expect logical discourse from a child suffering the trauma of a vital gunshot wound.
If before, then Zimmerman's a murderer and needs to be locked up forever.
polly7
(20,582 posts)That's a very good point.