Rejected Detroit Student Says U-M Didn’t Accept Her Because of Discrimination

[Kurska]

"So, what does it take to become a student at the “Harvard of the Midwest?” And if the University of Michigan passes on your particular set of achievements, is it OK to claim it was because of discrimination?
Those are just two questions swirling since pro-affirmative action group By Any Means Necessary held a rally on behalf of Detroit high school student Brooke Kimbrough to protest the fact she was rejected.

Kimbrough, 17, an African American with distinctive oversize glasses, fuchsia lipstick, and a towering bun atop her head, had a 3.5 grade point average at a charter high school in Detroit and scored a 23 out of 36 on the ACT. She claims racial discrimination is the reason she was rejected.
The Princeton Review found the average high school grade point average of an incoming U of M freshman is 3.82; about 25 percent have a perfect 4.0, according to about.com. The university admits about 37 percent of applicants."

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2014/04/16/rejected-detroit-student-says-u-m-didnt-accept-her-because-of-discrimination/


This might be an unpopular opinion, but I think this is incredibly dumb. Diversity in education is a worthy cause, but her ACT scores were nearly 30% lower in percentile than the average at U-M and her GPA wasn't up to snuff either.

My SAT percentiles were way better than hers (I never took the ACT) and I still went to community college for 2 years to save my parents money. I'm pretty sure U-M is a public university, so if she really wanted to go she could just go to CC and then transfer. I really really doubt the reason she didn't get into a university that her scores say she isn't qualified for is racism.

[tammywammy]

1. Well it does appear that her grades and ACT weren't good enough.

There are other options, different university or a community college and transfer in.

[JI7]

2. she was on a debate team which won some award

i'm guessing she has a lot of similar things where she does well which is not always clear just based on the usual tests and other things.

[Kurska]

7. Universities look at those sure

But generally as a way to determine which already qualified candidate to pick from. They are rarely if every considered a replacement for achieving the at the least minimum in terms of grades and standardized tests.

[JI7]

11. yes, but it shows she can probably transfer if she just does well in

her classes in another college. if she is able to get a scholarship to another 4 year school i think she should do that and she may just find that she is ok with that school . if not she can just transfer.

students in high school think it's important to get into THE SCHOOL for their future when the truth is that after they graduate it will be more important what they do afterwards .

people will be more impressed by someone who could hold a job for a couple years or so after graduation and show they learned a lot at that job than where they graduated.

[Kurska]

14. A lot of careers these days don't even remotely care where you got your undergraduate

If they require a master's degree or higher as well (which are more and more things).

Even for graduate school admission they tend not to put a lot of focus on where the person is coming from. How you did there, relevant experience, letters of recommendation and standardized test scores are weighted far more heavily than the place. It makes sense if you consider that just because a University is renowned doesn't mean every single one of their programs is amazing. Small less known universities can also have one or two programs that are absolutely top-notch. You'll never be able to keep track of how good each program at thousands of universities is year to year, so more often than not they just focus on the individual.

Funnily enough, a lot "great" programs are often actually pretty bad at preparing their undergrads for the next level, because so much of their focus is on graduate students and research.

I'd suggest she focus less on where and think more on what she'll actually do when she gets there. Given that she got wait-listed at a great school, there is no way she couldn't get into the next tier down.

I just hope she bothered applying to a bunch of other places.

[tammywammy]

20. For my grad school acceptance

It was my undergrad GPA x 200 + GMAT score. There was a minimum requirement. I could have gotten a ridiculiously low score on the GMAT since my GPA was a 3.82. They only looked at letters of recommendation and other things, if you scored too low on the algorithm.

I agree about too much emphasis on where they want to go to school. I went to a small private university for undergrad, but a public university for my MBA. There are some excellent MBA programs around here (TCU, SMU, etc) but ultimately the cost I'd be taking on compared to the public school wasn't worth it. It's not like my choice was Wharton versus UTA. haha.

And my career won't be hindered by UTA versus SMU either.

[Kurska]

21. That is the thing, these places want to be objective wherever it is possible.

I was flat out told by a lot of places that where I was comming from didn't matter much. That there were too many programs at too many places in my field to keep track of, so rather than unfairly advantage or disadvantage someone by focusing on the name of the university (which in reality says very little about the quality of specific programs), they just didn't pay much attention to it.

The fact I ended up out-competing applicants from much larger and well known schools (even Ivy leagues) probably lends credence to this assertion.

It isn't where you go, it is what you do there, especially in the sciences.

[exboyfil]

29. I think my Purdue degree has opened doors

that might not otherwise been available. That was a consideration when deciding to send my daughter to Iowa State. We eventually went with ISU, which is an excellent university for Mechanical Engineering, and I frankly think she will get a better education than she would have had at Purdue, but the degree will not open as many doors.

Michigan is even more highly regarded than Purdue, and in more subjects. We had a kid graduate last high from my daughter's high school that turned down a full ride to Purdue to go to Michigan in engineering.

[rocktivity]

3. To this day, my sister says that she wouldn't have lasted a week at St. John's University

if she hadn't gone to community college first -- a decision that set her on the course to becoming a pharmacy technician.

As for me, I went to a state college that required a minimum combined SAT score of 1000 -- I scored 850. But I graduated in the top 20% of one of New York City's specialized public high schools, and got in on a special admissions program that considered income as well as race, graduating with a B average. When I was asked if it was fair that I took a place from smarter white student, I asked, "Is it fair that the white students who graduated behind me got to stay?"


rocktivity

[BlueCheese]

4. This story is just weird.

According to their website, the University of Michigan's 25th percentile ACT score is 28, meaning 75% of its students have an ACT score of 28 or higher. To claim discrimination when your score is 23 sounds strange.

I hope this one person's misguided protest doesn't become fodder for certain unsavory agendas.

[bluestateguy]

5. She would be good enough for any other Michigan public school save for MSU or UM

She's a good, but not outstanding student.

And trying to sue her way in will not end well.

[Hekate]

6. I don't know about Michigan's population growth vs. number of colleges....

...but California's population growth outstripped the number of college seats long ago. It is a sad fact that if it were not for some attempt at diversity admissions, the Universities in particular could fill every freshman class seat with A+ students, many of them Asian rather than black or white. California voters got rid of affirmative action because they thought it was responsible for young Susie Smith and Johnny Jones not being able to take their rightful places, but AA was not to blame, population pressure and too few seats was and is.

Personally, I understand the angst of parents and students of whatever ethnicity. Our society needs a broad spectrum of college graduates from all walks of life, and from a broader academic category than just Honors and Advanced Placement students.

As for this young woman -- well, if U-M admits only 37% of applicants, she has a LOT of company. I highly recommend community college for the first 2 years, then transfer. My whole family did that for economic reasons, and among us we ended up with one EECS (computer engineer) from Berkeley, one MS in Geophysics from Cal State San Diego, and one PhD in Mythological Studies. One tremendous advantage to community college is smaller class size and greater access to instructors/professors.

[Kurska]

8. What people don't understand is no one cares where you did your first two years.

Last edited Thu Apr 17, 2014, 04:52 AM - Edit history (1)

I was the top applicant to the top Masters Program in my field and I went to community college for two years. I didn't even end up transferring to an ivy league or anything, I just went to a good regional school. My University has a solid reputation in the field regionally, but by no means are we considered even top 20 in the country.

I got a nearly perfect GPA, I killed my GRES and I got a ton of research experience. I most certainly out-competed students who had spent 4 years at places like University of Florida or Duke (which are probably the best in my field in the south east). It isn't where you go, it is what you do there that matters.

[Hekate]

9. Exactly. I wish more people understood that. It helps to scope out the CC as well...

Some of them have sweetheart deals with certain universities and colleges, guaranteeing admission after two years with good but not necessarily outstanding grades in the core requirements. It is so worth it.

[Kurska]

13. Florida has a system wherein you have guaranteed admission to any public university if you get an AA

from a instate Community College. Though some places don't guarantee you'll be able to declare for any major you want (some majors at top universities are limited acceptance).

Awesome program, I wish more places did it. It certainly made me feel secure in starting at a CC.

[Kurska]

12. LOL

I wonder what I did to piss you off.



It was a personal anecdote illustrative of a point I was making. It was perfectly relevant to what I was talking about at that moment.

[Hekate]

18. LOL indeed. He can take a swipe at my family too, and I wasn't even the best student of the lot...

... because my grades were erratic even though my SATs were high. However -- and I think this important -- the further away I got from core requirements the better my GPA got, so by grad school I was only doing what I loved and was good at.

The thing about the current college situation that bothers me worst is that costs have soared beyond what any middle class family can reasonably pay, and vastly beyond what it takes for an individual poor or lower middle class student to work their way through without ending up with crushing debt. I don't know if any of my family could have gone beyond community college if that had been the case in the 1960s and 1970s, because while our folks talked a good story about the wonders of higher education but the harsh fact was there was no money left over for it from my dad's income. I saved what I could during high school and then worked my way through college as a sales clerk without borrowing money. My mom sent me $20 a month. I ate little and owned no car, but my point is that it's not even possible to do it like that today.

The thing about community college though -- the most valuable out-of-classroom lesson I learned -- was that my more focused classmates could gain a quality education in two years that would launch them into careers that over time could support themselves and a family. Some of my classmates became registered nurses, firefighters, cops, electronics technicians, and accountants. In two years. One CPA I knew said he got everything he really needed in the 2 years he spent in my school, and the next 2 years at state college were really just the frosting on the cake.

Ever since then I've been a CC booster, as you can tell.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

15. Why is this news?

It looks as though this accusation of racial discrimination is very likely to be wholly spurious.

At least some other accusations of racial discrimination are also wholly or partly spurious.

Many accusations of racial discrimination are not in the least spurious.

I cannot help but suspect that the reason this is being reported is to encourage readers to think that the proportion of accusations of racial discrimination that are spurious is higher than they currently think it is, and that genuine racial discrimination is less prevalent than they currently think it is.

If most readers currently overestimate the prevalence of racial discrimination, that is a worthy aim. But my guess is that significantly more readers overestimate than underestimate it.

And if so, and if I am right in my guess as to their motivation in printing this - which, I hasted to point out, I have only weak circumstantial evidence for, and haven't investigated - then I think it is contemptible.

[Kurska]

17. I believe she held a rally with BAMN (by any means necessary).

Which is an affirmative action promoting group.

That seems somewhat newsworthy.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

19. Unless there's more to this than in the OP, she seems like a poster child *against* AA. N.T.

[The Straight Story]

26. Hmmm sounds a lot like

What I have said about guns. Less than one percent of gun owners harm others with their guns but we broad brush the over 99 percent of others based on what the very few do. In fact you aren't even supposed to post stories in gd if they are about guns in a positive light (like someone's house was being broke into and they defended themselves with a gun).

And when all you see is negative news about a group (muslims, gun owners, pit bulls, etc) people tend to start to believe every single person in that group is just as bad or somehow to blame/contributes to the problem. Note how the fox news crowd refers to muslims and compare that to the name calling of people who want to be allowed to own a gun (humpers, nuts, genital size jokes, crazy, loons, et al) - folks love to dehumanize those they hate and only want to hear negative news about them. Which group that is depends on which side of the aisle you are on but both sides embrace the tactic and think it is brilliant (unless it is used against a group they like....)

[Donald Ian Rankin]

28. I'm afraid I don't buy the analogy with guns.

About 30,000 Americans - about 1 person in 10,000 - are shot to death every year; I don't know how many times that number are injured. I think that outweighs whatever good guns do many times over.

So, if anything, a better analogy would be between articles about false accusations of racial discrimination and positive articles about guns - yes, it happens, and it's accurate so far as it goes, but it's not an important part of the big picture.

[The Straight Story]

31. Actually

It was about gun 'owners' - not the guns.

You know, people, humans, who happen to own the same tools a select few others do. I get you may not like guns, we all hate any sort of violence, etc and so on - but do you believe that treating the many one way because of what the few do is the right way to approach anything?

That is the core of it - and as I noted, folks on both sides of the aisle seem to think that is a valid concept to use in discussions - and yet both say it is not and call it bias/stereotype/hate.

Funny how that works.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

33. Yes, I absolutely believe that's the right approach.

I'm sure that 99% of the population wouldn't use cruise missiles irresponsibly if they had them; that doesn't mean they shouldn't be banned.

Similarly, I think that 1 death per 10,000 people per year is enough to justify taking most guns away from all gun owners. I think we've gotten the balance between the desire to own guns and the desire not to be shot about right here in the UK.

But I think we're getting rather sidetracked here.

[Yo_Mama]

34. If you hold a rally with a pro-affirmative action group, it's news.

I agree that this claim seems unlikely. I don't think the news organizations are wrong to cover it, though. I would think they would be wrong not to cover such a rally. It's just that her particular claim is not very well-founded. But if you hold a rally such as this, the reporters are going to come out, and apparently this girl was the only one on whom they could get the numbers. Thus she becomes the story.

It might be that the pro-affirmative action group is trying to start a push to get a policy such as they have other places, where students get automatic admission with certain high school records to combat poorer educational systems.

[Yo_Mama]

36. Found it - it was really a Prop 2 rally

BAMN currently has a case awaiting decision up before the SC about the MI's Prop 2:
http://www.bamn.com/social-justice/petition-against-racism-at-um-defend-affirmative-action-minority-political-rights-and-immigrant-rights
http://www.scotusblog.com/2013/10/counting-the-votes-todays-affirmative-action-argument-in-plain-english/

So it makes sense. This is the type of student who might benefit from Prop 2 being struck down. I doubt it, with that ACT score, but she is the TYPE of student (does well in school, poorer educational setting thus disadvantaging the student in ways beyond the student's control) who is hurt by such a measure.

[egold2604]

16. I applied to University of Michigan and was rejected in 1963.

I had a 3.6 GPA, 1550 on SATs, and was accepted at every University I applied to except the University of Michigan, my first choice. I ended up attending the University of Wisconsin and got a degree in BioChemical Engineering and had a long and profitable career in industry.

If you are not qualified, you are not qualified.

[LittleBlue]

22. 3.5 isn't very impressive nowadays

I went to a public school where the average admission score was 3.8. My counselor was warning me to get a 4.0 AND have extracurricular activities to be certain of admission. Grade inflation is taking the shine off of 3.5s.

It's sad but that's life.

[exboyfil]

30. My daughter did not apply to

any exclusive universities (she wanted to stay close). Her 3.99 with 50+ college hours got her $4,500 in merit aid her first year. To put in context she got an A and A- in a core sophomore and junior engineering classes. The semester she got her A- in the sophomore engineering class, her class rank dropped (her high school school does not weight).

[yellowcanine]

23. The ACT score seems a bit low but a 3.5 might be ok.

High school grades are a better predictor of college success than ACT or SAT scores. It would also be good to know what her high school class rank was - that can even out some of the effects of differences in grading standards.

That said, I think she has been ill advised. Universities cannot admit everybody who applies and as someone pointed out, a community college can be an affordable pathway to a state university. The success rate for community college transfers is quite high and the student still gets the university degree and often has significantly less debt.

[exboyfil]

32. In many ways class rank and even grades ar problematic

My daughter easily outperformed a student in the same class with a different teacher. She even helped her with her homework. When the grades finally came in my daughter had an A- and the other student had an A.

Also if you push yourself like my daughter did you will get punished. Her A- in a junior level college engineering course (this is a nationally recognized college in engineering) caused her class rank and GPA in high school to drop. No other kid in her class was even remotely at that level of academics (at best some were taking Calculus III).

[leftynyc]

24. Those grades and ACT scores suck

when it comes to a school like Michigan. Maybe she should stop whining and go to a community college to raise her grades up and then she can transfer in. Why should Michigan lower their standards for her?

[3catwoman3]

37. A 23 on the ACT...

...definitely falls into the "no big whoop" category.

[leftynyc]

38. And a 3.5 GPA is also pretty

low for Michigan. That's a very tough school.

[KamaAina]

25. But, but, but, but I thought charter school students always got into good colleges!

[bluestateguy]

27. If she thinks she's the next Rosa Parks or James Meredith she is sorely mistaken

She needs to go to cc if she wants to be ready for UM, or go to another Michigan public school like Central or Eastern.

[1000words]

35. "By any means necessary," after all.

Kimbrough is not the exceptional student she thinks she is.