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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPity the underpaid New Jersey Police…
Last edited Sat Apr 12, 2014, 10:47 AM - Edit history (1)
(Title edited to reflect the fact, pointed out by several posters, that cops in most parts of the country, especially in Flyoverland, remain rather poorly compensated.)
http://www.alternet.org/wheres-outrage-about-obscenely-high-police-salaries?akid=11710.187861._HRw7W&rd=1&src=newsletter980698&t=7
The people who work at or attend recreation programs in North Brunswick must have felt all warm and fuzzy after hearing that. One expects this kind of sentiment from a law-and-order Republican, but this is a Democratic mayor of a blue city, with a relatively low crime rate.
In Suffolk County, New York, where I live, the police unions just secured significant raises for all levels of officers, despite persistent fiscal deficits causing genuinely dangerous recent cuts to social spending. Compensation for Suffolk County cops, already astronomically high by both state and national standards, was apparently insufficient. Now, base pay for sergeants will exceed $160,000 by 2018; detectives will make well over $200,000. These public servants now find themselves in the top 2 percent of the income scale (no doubt this level of pay is necessary in order for them to effectively Protect and Serve). There was virtually no serious resistance to these raises, which are indefensible on the merits, from either side of the local political class.
The fact that influential conservatives are reliably silent about the issue of police salaries further illustrates how their austerity agenda is just a cover for ideological warfare. New Jersey Governor Chris Christie has spent his entire tenure in office railing about teachers and their nefarious unions - accusing them of 19th century thinking, ridiculing teachers who ask for raises, and bullying them at every opportunity. But if Christie had even a shred of political integrity, he would direct some of his wrath toward the state police, and their union, for the money they are soaking from taxpayers. New Jersey State troopers are the highest-paid in the country (N.J. has the distinction of having both the highest-paid municipal police and the highest-paid state police). During Christies first term, in a particularly appalling scandal, it was revealed that six state troopers had cashed in nearly $276,000 in overtime pay alone while overseeing a construction project on the New Jersey Turnpike. Imagine the kind of rage we would have seen from Christie if teachers or lowly bureaucrats had done something similar.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)All it really does is display a fundamental ignorance of how collective bargaining works.
Unions are there to protect ALL employees they represent, regardless of whether they are bad or not. If they refuse, an employee can file an unfair labor practice or sue the union. Furthermore if a union refuses to represent "bad" employees by compelling management to follow their own rules, it compromises their ability to represent everyone else.
Bad employees are are indicative of bad management, not good unions.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)So it seems the joke's on you.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)Why does DU let this stand?
WillyT
(72,631 posts)JJChambers
(1,115 posts)And the state troopers here broke the 30k / year starting within the last few years. Alternet is trash.
DJ13
(23,671 posts)food stamps included.
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)nt
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)To prove it you should try joining the military as an E-1 with a spouse and kids in tow. No doubt you'll be living high on the hog getting paid $350 per week (before taxes) along with a quarters allowance that you'll be lucky if it almost covers the cost of a shitty apartment and a subsistence allowance of $80 per week.
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)So I know exactly how much they're paid.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Which is why I find your assertion more than a bit ridiculous. One of the biggest reasons why I left the military was because I was underpaid and as an officer I had it a helluva lot better than the junior enlisted. If you're lucky enough to find yourself in a combat unit you wind up working more 12 hour+ days than 8, sometimes going weeks without a day off performing hard physical and mental labor with tremendous responsibility. Adding up the hours worked translates to far less than minimum wage. If this is your idea of overpaid, it makes me wonder what your idea of underpaid is.
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)Keep in mind that that over the last 15 years or so military pay has been rising much faster than your average private sector job.
And btw I never said the military was overpaid.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Military pay increases are tied to ECI which is calculated directly from average private sector pay increases. In the last 15 years there's been a handful in which congress has authorized raises > ECI (by a very small percentage). Characterizing this as "rising much faster" is more than just a bit disingenuous, especially given that military members were and still are grossly underpaid to begin with.
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)from page 17
In 2009, average RMC(Regular Military Compensation) for enlisted members exceeded the median wage for
civilians in each relevant comparison groupthose with a high school diploma,
those with some college, and those with an associates degree. Average RMC for
the enlisted force corresponded to the 90th percentile of wages for civilians from
the combined comparison groups. For officers, average RMC exceeded wages for
civilians with a bachelors or graduate-level degree. Average RMC for the officer
force corresponded to the 83rd percentile of wages for the combined civilian
comparison groups.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Might as well ask Wal-Mart how well their employees are compensated.
Furthermore that's not what your obviously biased source is saying. It's not comparing people with similar levels of work and responsibility, it's comparing people with similar levels of education which can and does include the unemployed and underemployed. Try comparing people with similar levels of responsibility. Try comparing people with similar levels of occupational injury and death. Try comparing people with similar levels of adverse working conditions. Hell try even comparing people who have the same number of working hours. Anyone with a calculator and a few synapses actively firing can figure out this is complete bullshit. E-1 pay = $18,000 per year. Even if you assume said E-1 works only 40 hours per week (which is a pretty piss poor assumption), that works out to $8.65 per hour. Throw in the number of hours they work > 40 per week which would be time and a half for any FLSA covered employee in America and the difference becomes even more drastic. Not to mention your source is using "RMC" which includes pay AND all sorts of benefits. Nobody is disputing that the military has excellent benefits (for which they make significant sacrifices far over and above the vast majority of civilian employees).
If you're going to pull nonsense like this out, I'm done here. If you believe the military is overpaid, more power to you. Good luck convincing anyone of that.
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)Could you point to where I said the military was overpaid?
By the way, if you know of any other studies comparing military and private sector compensation could you please post them? Also why shouldn't benefits be counted when comparing compensation? That E-1 you mention making $18,000 is also getting BAH and BAS, or is getting free use of the chow hall and free housing. I know first-hand that lower enlisted barracks/dorms aren't the best but I've lived in worse.
tazkcmo
(7,300 posts)Isn't "high on the hog". I will say the pay is better than when I joined in 1985 and I received 618 per month as an E-1. To be fairly compensated is everyone's goal, so I suppose the the real argument is what is fair? According the the current military wage scale, you would need to be a Major with over 15 years service to make as much as an entry level cop in many cases. Top senior enlisted pay is 5411/month (E-9/18 yrs). Junior enlisted is about 24k/year.
The pay scale for the Army can be found at http://myarmybenefits.us.army.mil/Home/Benefit_Library/Federal_Benefits_Page/Basic_Pay.html?serv=147
This discussion is about police pay, not general civilian pay like doctors, professors, lawyers, engineers, etc. How many police Sergeants have bachelor degrees? I don't know, I'm asking. The base pay for an average junior enlisted soldier is about 24k/year. That's better than your $10/hr food service worker but in no way is it luxurious.
Yes, you get other benefits, as do the police. As I said above, is it fair? My feeling is no.
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)Saying that a junior enlisted makes only 24k/year is rather misleading if you don't mention BAH and BAS. I know that when I was an E-4 with 3 years experience, I brought home over 40k/year in direct cash compensation. A good portion of that was tax free. I personally thought it was fair compensation.
tazkcmo
(7,300 posts)40k is a far cry from 100k nor is it an eye raising amount. The reason I didn't figure extra bennies is when I was in only married soldiers living off post were entitled to BAS/BAH. If you lived in the barracks or had on post housing you did not receive one or the other or both but that's fine, include them because 40k a year to be on call 24/7/365 and face a very real possibility of being blown to bits or worse, being blown to bits and living is a steal. My point is plus 100k/year is excessive imho.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)no, nowhere near six figures, and the dept wonders why they have moral and retention problems. Not that any of the departments pays that much and we are in California.
Part of the reason for the pay (this is the argument made by the unions and they have a point) is that higher than average pay helps to nip corruption.
Honolulu PD is known for a shall we say... beggy problem from traffic stops, for example and their pay is bellow national averages. So cops have to make up their income.
That said, six figures for a recruit? Are they bloody nuts? A detective or Lt, sure... a recruit...
But the problem you have is that most pols are actually afraid of the unions.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)The median wage for LEOs is $56K.
http://www.bls.gov/ooh/protective-service/police-and-detectives.htm
We might as well surf Cato's web site about the ills of unions rather than read the OP.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)NJ is the exception
pintobean
(18,101 posts)Do you have a link for that?
If we're talking San Diego PD, they're in the top 25.
msongs
(67,433 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Inside base.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)I have to agree that cops should make good money. They risk their lives day in and day out dealing with a surly and dangerous public.
The problem lies in the fact that the officials do not wisely use police resources. Like this having regular cops at construction sites; mere mortals could do that job, freeing top cops to arrest those damned left hand lane road warriors who endanger lawful citizens doing the speed limit.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)To add the median housing prices to the equation and discussion.
Suffolk and Nassau counties aren't North Brunswick or Wichita.
virgogal
(10,178 posts)Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)Most city cops live on the island too.
NYC is a little bit of an anomaly, but valid point no less.
madville
(7,412 posts)City police start at 28k a year, county is 31k a year and the state troopers start at 33k a year.
That New Jersey phenomenon is from places with high costs of living and very strong police unions.
I agree that's way too little and I have no faith or trust in any LEOs.
madville
(7,412 posts)Where the cops have to be paid six figures. That automatically indicates it's going to be an expensive shithole
pragmatic_dem
(410 posts)Please, for the love of god, understand these agencies ARE NOT HERE TO PROTECT US.
Justice Dept. rescuing the rich and powerful. Low level employees are being persecuted for whistle blowing, while torture and fraud gets a pass.
We sent every last job to Asia and now like some 3rd world corrupt, despotic nation, we've let the police state overtake us.
My god, what have we done?
We have become militarized to protect the 1%.
Kingofalldems
(38,468 posts)That said, these phone calls I get from FOP and Police Chiefs etc. asking for money are way over the top.
shanemcg
(80 posts)It would suck to get killed and lose that sweet paycheck. Shoot first and ask questions later.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)to protect them against the 99% rabble?