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blm

(113,061 posts)
1. And why did they insist on that mandate when they first structured alot of this bill in the 90s?
Tue Mar 27, 2012, 07:14 PM
Mar 2012

THEY wanted the mandate in the bill.

WillowTree

(5,325 posts)
3. Because no one is required to purchase auto insurance simply by virtue of being a citizen.
Tue Mar 27, 2012, 07:16 PM
Mar 2012

You are only required to get auto insurance if you are going to own and drive a car, and owning/driving a car is a matter of choice.

tabatha

(18,795 posts)
4. Then no one should be able to use an emergency room unless they pay the mandate.
Tue Mar 27, 2012, 07:34 PM
Mar 2012

But this will never happen, because it involves a person's life.

Cars are not living things.

LuvLoogie

(7,003 posts)
6. You are mixing logic trees.
Tue Mar 27, 2012, 08:06 PM
Mar 2012

One is required to buy auto insurance , because one chooses to drive. One doesn't have to drive. There are alternatives. If one chooses to drive without insurance, then one is subject to fines or the loss of driving privileges.

The need for healthcare derives from the state of being alive. If one is alive, then one will likely require healthcare during his life. There is only one alternative to being alive. When one chooses not to be alive, that is often referred to as suicide.

There is a cost to providing healthcare whether or not one purchases insurance. Because one is alive, one is "driving" the highway of life.

We can become a society where we leave people to die in their crumpled cars or smoldering on their front lawns. Or we can pass a comprehensive not for profit insurance system where everyone participates in the insurance pool.

The state of being alive belongs to everyone, but laws apply to citizens. Since everyone living is alive, there is a probability that they will incur cost when being treated for wellness, illness or trauma.

All citizens don't drive, but all citizens are alive.

ProdigalJunkMail

(12,017 posts)
8. the need for healthcare
Tue Mar 27, 2012, 08:58 PM
Mar 2012

is not the same as the need for healthcare insurance...

this is one of the major sticking points to the issue of whether or not Commerce can be used here.

sP

salib

(2,116 posts)
5. I have seen that comparison made many times
Tue Mar 27, 2012, 08:06 PM
Mar 2012

And have used it myself.

However, as you can see from some responses here, it is not a very good analogy. In fact there is:
1. Only owners of automobiles who drive them on public roads (a privilege in itself) are required to have auto insurance
2. The penalty for not buying auto insurance is loss of privilege (driving)
3. There is no requirement that one buy health insurance with the ACA. It is a tax.
4. It is also apparently not even enforced as a tax in the usual IRA manner (no wage garnishment, etc.)
5. Finally, the auto insurance laws are generally (varies by state) very regressive in that it is liability and that amount is based upon what other, more well-to-do, drivers are driving. Thus, those with inexpensive cars are subsidizing those with expensive one.

Quite different.

In general, in a representative democracy like we have, taxes must be universally applied (i.e., one cannot simply opt out for selfish reasons). Otherwise, most would opt out but still want the benefit (if there is one).

It is interesting in terms of consensus type systems (e.g., OWS). In theory, a tax could not be levied unless everyone agreed, which would be pretty tough in large numbers. Anyone have any examples where that works?

ProdigalJunkMail

(12,017 posts)
7. not this shit AGAIN?
Tue Mar 27, 2012, 08:07 PM
Mar 2012

fuck...didn't we take care of this when the bill was passed?

FFS...stop already with the car insurance bullshit.

sP

librechik

(30,674 posts)
9. 1, there is no mandate you can opt out & pay a tax instead & 2 car insurance is state based
Tue Mar 27, 2012, 09:03 PM
Mar 2012

states can mandate whatever they want. You can just move if you don't like it. Not so much w the feds. All they can mandate on citizens is a draft, just about.

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
10. States impose auto insurance requirements, not the federal government.
Tue Mar 27, 2012, 09:09 PM
Mar 2012

The legal right to do so arises under the police power of the states, not the federal government's commerce clause power.

So it's a completely different issue with completely different legal foundations.

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