Race played role in Detroit mob attack on Steven Utash, prosecutor says

[NaturalHigh]

DETROIT, MI -- For the first time since April 2 when an angry mob beat Steven Utash to the brink of death in Detroit, authorities say race is a factor.

Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy on Thursday announced a 16-year-old juvenile suspect is being charged with ethnic intimidation as a minor.

He is also charged with assault with intent to do great bodily harm.

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2014/04/race_played_role_in_detroit_mo.html

What despicable cowards. If found guilty, they should rot in prison for a long time.

[maryellen99]

1. I'm from the Detroit area

And white people are PISSED off about this.

[NaturalHigh]

2. I would hope that the black community is pissed too.

The thugs who did this are low even when compared to other criminals.

[PoliticAverse]

37. "Deborah Hughes stood up to a ferocious mob and possibly saved a man’s life."

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140408/METRO01/304080026/Retired-nurse-gets-mob-Detroit-back-off-stop-beating-driver

[NaturalHigh]

50. She's a true hero.

Not many people would have had the courage to risk her own life standing up to a mob like that.

[AverageJoe90]

97. Definitely! No question about that. nt

[etherealtruth]

53. There is a "healing service" being conducted at this moment to decry the criminal acts

... of those involved. it is in a largely African American neighborhood and being attended by large numbers of African Americans.

I live in metro Detroit and I do not know a single person from the black community that is OK with violence and criminal activity ... I would say, as human beings, I am confident the "black community" is as disgusted by the actions of those A$$-holes, as is every other community.

[NaturalHigh]

58. I was replying to another post in that reply.

I certainly didn't mean to imply that I felt the black community wasn't outraged by these criminal acts. If I inadvertently gave that impression, I apologize.

[etherealtruth]

60. I did reply to your post, but was "kinda" replying to the ether

Our news outlets in metro Detroit seem to get comments from every skin head and KKK member able to read (it is a larger number than one might expect) ... I was probably responding thinking about those comments.

[NaturalHigh]

61. I understand.

I normally just avoid reading those comments. My blood pressure is pretty good, and I don't need to jack it up by reading that stuff.

[fujiyama]

65. Any sane and decent person of any race should be PISSED off about this

It's just plain sickening that a man checking to see if a child he hit (that ran in front of his vehicle) would be assaulted like that within an inch of his life.

The world needs more like Ms. Hughes, who had the courage to intervene, while many others witnessed it but did nothing.

[IronGate]

5. You do know that the kid ran right in front of the vehicle,

and the driver had no chance to avoid hitting him, and the driver stopped to help the kid and got beaten nearly to death?
I doubt there was any "points" involved here.

[Humanist_Activist]

6. Is there a point to this post?

Guy had an accident involving a kid, stopped to try to do the right thing, and got beat for it, would it have been better if he drove off instead?

[alp227]

33. Thankfully a jury UNANIMOUSLY voted to hide this! nt

[NaturalHigh]

8. What the hell?

This guy wasn't trying to hit anyone. He wasn't trying to score points. It was an accident caused by a kid running out in front of his truck.

The only racist act here involved the beating by a mob of cowards.

[IronGate]

9. You might want to consider self deleting this crappy post.

[CBGLuthier]

12. Charmingly Clueless.

[11 Bravo]

19. The charm escapes me.

[Aerows]

63. Frankly

I thought Charmin TP, and get some to wipe off the monitor.

[rumdude]

24. What a disgusting post

You sound ignorant and bitter.

[rollin74]

26. Mr. Utash was not at fault for the accident

what the hell are you talking about?

what evidence do you have that the vehicle struck the child intentionally???

[PeteSelman]

4. Of course it did.

Reminded me of Reginald Denny when I read the story.

[Jenoch]

11. "Pent up frustration?"

Why are you making excuses for these thugs (yes, I wrote thugs).

[oneofthe99]

15. People live by a social contract whether it's by state or how we interact with one another

Some people never will be able to accept that therefore they should be taken out of society where they can harm no more.

[oneofthe99]

22. You are talking about a much larger issue than what is being discussed and posted in the OP

This was an extremely violent assault on another human being .

If you want to address the root causes of poverty , racism then you are barking up the wrong tree in this thread.

This person needs to be taken out of society where he can never harm again and then he can receive counseling
and what ever psychological needs he may have which are many to commit a crime such as this.

Then again there are some people that are un-treatable and are predators whether they are on the street or behind bars.
He maybe an individual like that as well but for starters he needs to get locked up and be punished for his crime.

[oneofthe99]

34. Actually there is counseling in every prison system that is state or federally run

From addiction counseling all the way to more deeply rooted problems an inmate might have.
Some are actually really good where the inmates them selves join in helping one another while being run
and supervised by an state certified counselor , doctor etc..

It's not that there is no counseling in prisons , it's that the inmate has to want it
and sign up for it.

I will state I can't speak about the new crop of privately run prisons creeping up in the south because I have no knowledge
on how they run internally but I have read nothing good about them.

When you start having a prison run for profit nothing good will come of that.

[oneofthe99]

41. Unless you want them all released to run wild on an Island some where they have to be contained

in order to be able to protect them from them selves or from one another.
There has to be some type control where sometimes there are 100's or 1000's of extremely violent felons
in a small space.

[oneofthe99]

43. If it's a mental issue I can agree but believe when I tell you some are just predators

[oneofthe99]

46. That is your opinion and I will respect it

and I apologize for the trolling comment.

[WillowTree]

20. Should we assume, then.......

.......that you were as concerned about George Zimmerman's frustration and how he managed to grow to be a thug?

Nonsense. Unacceptable actions/behaviors are equally despicable regardless of age or race. And yes, 16 I'd old enough to know that beating someone up is just plain wrong.

[Supersedeas]

98. frustration...maybe the AG was right...we are a nation of cowards

[NaturalHigh]

14. Yes, I do hope he rots in prison.

Adult prison, that is, not a juvenile facility.

When someone commits a brutal crime like this, I couldn't care less about the root cause. Society is safer if he is locked up.

If that offends your sense of morality, sorry. Actually, I'm not. I have no respect for someone who thinks that youth is a license for some thug to beat a man nearly to death. If this were a property crime or some youthful indiscretion that could be attributed to being a stupid teenager, I would feel differently. Taking part in a mob attack motivated by racial hatred - not so much.

This is precisely the sort of crime that justifies trying a juvenile offender as an adult.

[Blue_Tires]

25. Just being devil's advocate here, but

You said society is safer if he is locked up, but what if society is an underlying cause?

Isn't it possible that criminal justice system which has long conditioned black communities to not expect any due diligence from LEOs or semblance of fair, equal treatment (much less justice) might just reinforce the notion that vigilantism is the only solution to guarantee a result?

[NaturalHigh]

30. You might have some good points there...

but I don't think they change anything about this particular case. Regardless of what this young man might have been conditioned to believe, he (allegedly) committed a brutal crime, which law enforcement officials believe was at least partially motivated by racial hatred. If he is convicted, he will have the opportunity th present his experiences as mitigation.

[oneofthe99]

16. me thinks you are trolling

[Travis_0004]

39. Yes, when you put somebody in critical condition, you should go to prison for a long time.

[Travis_0004]

45. Ok, we can let him move in with you instead

[AnalystInParadise]

48. At least in prison

he will get free vaccines..........

[Blue_Tires]

21. Wow...You couldn't even get Angela Corey to SAY 'race'

during the Tryavon Martin ordeal...

And now they're going to charge a minor with it???

Actually it does make sense -- This will be the most locked-in conviction their office will have had in recent years, so may as well stack the charges high...

[Separation]

69. So because Florida prosecutors

Manage to fuck up a case, what these kids should get a slap on the wrist? I'm honestly asking....what do you think should happen to them?

[Blue_Tires]

96. I didn't say anything about a slap on the wrist

I just think trying them as adults is overly harsh...There have been kids who shot up their schools and slaughtered their parents who didn't get tried as adults...

[NaturalHigh]

99. If the 16 year old is tried as a juvenile...

he will likely be out of prison in just a couple of years. How can that possibly be right?

There are some crimes that demand the perpetrators be tried as adults. This is one of them. If this young man is convicted of this crime, he should do at least 20 years.

[Blue_Tires]

103. I just hope for the sake of consistency

you're just as harsh in your judgement of all lawbreakers, no matter who the perpetrator is...

You want 20+ years for assault? What should Zimmerman have gotten? 25 consecutive life sentences?

[NaturalHigh]

106. Did I mention that I wanted the perpetrator...

to be given a lengthy sentence if he is convicted? Zimmerman was never convicted in court.

What do you think is appropriate if the 16 year old is convicted of a racially-motivated assault?

[Blue_Tires]

108. What should Zimmerman have gotten if he WAS convicted then, smartass?

If you want 20 for racially-motivated assault, then racially-motivated murder has to be an automatic death penalty, does it not?

[NaturalHigh]

110. Life without parole would have been appropriate.

[randys1]

27. Rampant racism in America

With Black people being on the short end of every single economic and societal stick for the past 200+ years, who continue to be attacked DAILY as to their right to vote, it is amazing to me there is not massive, bloody, daily violence in all of our streets in retaliation.

There is NO excuse for what this group of people did to this driver, none.

But this event would PALE in comparison if the roles were in reverse, if white people were on the short end for 200 years they would be in the street causing violence daily. PERIOD

The self-control, the patience, the pure DECENCY the African American community shows to this country, to white people, in the face of what has been done to them, is astounding.

[alp227]

29. what the hell are you trying to say? nt

[randys1]

31. i thought i said it perfectly well

i did not excuse these actions while pointing out how convenient it is for the white community to show their anger


convenient is the wrong word, the instititutional violence from white america to Black america is all day long, just be thankful Black america doesnt react violently

this country is broken

i read a post about how angry the white folks are in Detroit, maybe I should have responded to that post

[AnalystInParadise]

49. So racism by members

of the black community should be ignored because of white racism throughout history? You must live in a wonderful and magical world.

[randys1]

51. Black people in America cant be racists

they can be bigoted, and who would blame them

but they dont have the power to be racists

[WatermelonRat]

55. They had enough power to beat a guy so badly he's still unconscious a week later.

[NaturalHigh]

59. Yes, black people can be racists.

Your poor attempt at semantics can't change the facts.

[whistler162]

62. A piece of advise

when your boat has leaks stop drilling holes in it! Or put simply

Quit while your a behind!

[randys1]

70. you dont know what the word racist means

stop embarrassing yourselves

people without power cant be racists, they can be bigots, they cant be racists

period, end of discussion

[NaturalHigh]

73. Play word games all you want.

When people violently attack others simply because of the victims' race, then they are racists. Period. The distinction you are attempting to make between bigotry and racism is just an attempt to make excuses for the violent and racist acts of a group of criminals.

[rrneck]

95. Swing and a miss...

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racist


rac·ist
[rey-sist] Show IPA
noun
1.
a person who believes in racism, the doctrine that a certain human race is superior to any or all others.
adjective
2.
of or like racists or racism: racist policies; racist attitudes.

[NaturalHigh]

100. I don't understand the theory that...

only white people can be racists. People of any race can be racists. Just take a look at the rhetoric that the Nation of Islam has spit out through the years.

[rrneck]

101. Ethics at the service of tribalism and ideology.

I think its the difference between "my tribe can't be wrong about this issue" and "my tribe can't be wrong about right and wrong".

[Donald Ian Rankin]

102. Everyone else does, it's you who doesn't.

It's true that there has been an attempt by a small number of morons to redefine the word "racist" as having something to do with power, but the vast majority of people, and pretty much all lexicographers, still use the word to mean what it has always meant.

[840high]

64. BS

[XemaSab]

109. "they can be bigoted, and who would blame them"

So black people have the "right" to be nasty to white people who have done NOTHING to them just because they are white?

Racism, how does it work?

[Vattel]

36. Seriously?

How on earth could we know what white people would do under such wildly hypothetical circumstances?

[randys1]

52. we know ABSOLUTELY what white people, or many of them would do

look at what they did when a Black man was elected prez

are you KIDDING ME

[Throd]

54. White racists voted for him so they could later tear him down?

[randys1]

56. voted for who?

i didnt say all whites were racist

[NaturalHigh]

68. What exactly did "they" do?

Specifics, please.

[WatermelonRat]

57. When talking about alternate histories, there's a great deal of uncertainty.

I can safely say, however, that your estimation is a load of nonsense. A person's race does not endow them with predisposition towards one form of behavior or another. If, 200 years ago, the United States of Africa had imported millions of slaves from Europe, the world today would not be entirely unfamiliar: We'd have recently elected John Smith, our first white president, and in reaction a number of middle-aged to elderly blacks would have started the hot cocoa party movement and make asses out of themselves on the streets and Jackal News. Some members of the white community would have an extreme "White Tigers" movement, but most would reject violence in favor of civil activism. When a white mob beats a black motorist in the streets, most people from both communities would condemn it and you would be here praising the white community for its patience and decency.

[cherokeeprogressive]

66. How big is your crystal ball?

I've thought about getting the Extra Large one myself, but it's kinda pricey. Is yours the Extra Large? XX maybe?

You talk about the uncertainty involved in contemplating "alternate histories", but then use an absolute like "would not be". And you claim to be able to safely say that.

Double X? Triple X? Whichever size it is; I want one if you can see what would be with such clarity.

[hfojvt]

67. I am sorta reminded of a book I read recently

"The Barbarous Years" by Bernard Bailyn

He writes that the early colonies, particularly Virginia DID import a whole bunch of white servants, who they ruthlessly exploited.

"The records, Warren Billings writes, document 'a dreary litany of privation, overwork, beatings, harassment, and other abuses,' and the court dockets were 'clogged by cases of runaways, bastard bearings, petty thievery and other infractions.' It is hardly surprising that there were two servant uprisings in the early 1660s and that Virginia was obliged to pass a statute defining the rights of servants." 509

"At the base of the free population [in Chesapeake], in the immediate post-Restoration period, was a restive underclass of freedman. Of the fortunes and misfortunes of this fast-growing part of the free population of Virginia - the most powerless of the Europeans, the most viciously exploited, and the most combative - Edmund Morgan has written eloquently. Most were rootless, impoverished, and faced with a grim fact of life." 522

"To the relatively secure, ambitious small and middle-level planters seeking to expand their holdings, as well as to the rising gentry, the freedmen, land poor and desperate, became competitors and constituted a threat that the planters sought to contain. Through their representatives in the House of Burgesses, the planters passed laws that extended, by all sorts of devices, the length of the servants' bondage; imposed penalties for idleness and bastardy; and granted loans that tied the freedmen in webs of debt....In 1642 more than half of Maryland's freedmen were tenants, and they were often indebted." 522

And slavery? Slavery was not just a race issue, it was a class issue. white people did not, for the most part, own slaves. Neither did Southern white people. It was RICH people who created this peculiar institution.

"Slaves were expensive - a healthy adult male was priced at about L23 at midcentury - and required at least a modicum of lifelong care. Ordinary planters could seldom afford them and could not easily include them within the family structure of their farms. But increasingly slaves appear in the records of the more affluent, and by 1675, as the result of hundreds of private, unrecorded decisions, they became common on the region's plantations." 525

[WatermelonRat]

90. You're kind of missing the point.

The idea I was attempting to illustrate was that, assuming mostly identical but reversed circumstances in this scenario and accepting the idea that there are no significant biological differences between races, history would more or less have developed along similar general lines.

[cherokeeprogressive]

92. I miss a lot, and am not afraid to admit it. Nor do I get mad when others point it out...

Here's the deal though; "When talking about alternate histories... I can safely say... world today would not be... We'd have recently... elderly blacks would have started the hot cocoa party... Some members of the white community would have... but most would... most people from both communities would condemn it... and you would be here praising..."

Don't fucking piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. Seems YOU have a great deal of certainty.

[WatermelonRat]

94. Again, it was a throwaway scenario to humorously illustrate my point.

Obviously it failed in that regard, but I maintain the core argument that, if we were to envision a hypothetical world where everything but the races of individuals were unchanged, it would more likely than not follow the general social patterns of our own.

[randys1]

71. Yeah, white people dont have a history of solving ALL problems with violence LOL

now you are the one talking nonsense...

this whole conversation is a joke, white western xtian protestants in USA and Europe have a history of killing anyone and everyone they dont like or gets in the way, hundreds of years of this and we still do it, Iraq ring a bell?

no wonder we have so many people hating Obama based SOLELY on his skin color

[JustAnotherGen]

74. You are making a good point here

A seriously good point. But - I DO think this is an alternate reality for certain segments of America. It's shocking to those segments because there is still a disconnect on how very much in the past has been resolved by white mob violence. This is 'new'.

[WatermelonRat]

89. So you believe in racial determinism?

Some races are naturally aggressive, some are naturally passive, and so on? Your race biologically inclines you towards one pattern of behavior or another? Maybe some races are smarter than others too? Going by the logic that there is an innate difference in the brains of people of different races, that is the logical conclusion.

I reject this line of thought, personally. Biological differences between the various races are so minute that it is now questioned whether the concept even exists in any biologically meaningful manner. No one race is smarter, dumber, stronger, weaker, more peaceful, more violent, etc. than the others.

[JustAnotherGen]

72. If and ONLY if they are found guilty

If they have a good attorney who gets them off - then that's that.

Justice will prevail - I've learned that these past few years. Our justice system is not flawless - but what I've 'learned' is that it works and whichever way things go -

Never get angry.
Never get disappointed.
Accept the reality.

And most important - eat your peas.

I just don't want you to go through what a lot of black folks in America have been experiencing since the Zimpig got off on using his gun.

Keep calm and let the system do it's job. But ALWAYS prepare for it to NOT do its job - because it is NOT flawless.

[randys1]

75. Justice?

If the alleged criminal (s) is not white, then it is an almost certainty they will be convicted and most often will get stiffer sentences than white folk.

If the alleged criminal is white, in most parts of America this gives them an advantage before the court room doors open.

Recent events in Florida make my comment UN-DEBATABLE ...

Of course, since most poor folks in America are white, and since the people who own our justice system, people like the Kochs visa vi ALEC, etc., hate poor people regardless of color, a poor white person doesnt stand much of a chance in our justice system either.

America is broken and broken badly, that we even have to have a debate about how white people receive preferential treatment and how spoiled they are and how childish they would act if they didn't get said preferential treatment, is silly...

[JustAnotherGen]

76. Check your PM's

Reality is unreal isn't it?

[NaturalHigh]

77. That's quite the blanket statement about white folks.

[randys1]

78. most, not all...history is on my side

[NaturalHigh]

79. Well, the thing about history is...

it's in the past.

[randys1]

80. REALLY

is Iraq in the past?

did we have to go and kill all those Brown people?

[NaturalHigh]

81. Iraq had a lot more to do with oil...

and profits for military contractors than it did with any desire to "kill all those Brown people."

By the way, this is getting way of the subject of the OP, which was about a racially-motivated assault in Detroit. Do you believe that all of your theories somehow excuse that?

[randys1]

82. I know exactly why we went to Iraq

and I know that white people get really upset when they are the victims, seems to me the minority communities dont have time to be upset when victims, they would then have time for NOTHING else but being upset

thankfully minority communities channel their anger into productivity instead , and yes the occasional outbreak of violence

again, occasional compared to what would be rampant and daily if shoe were on the other foot

[NaturalHigh]

83. You didn't answer my question.

Are you excusing the racially-motivated assault addressed in the OP?

[randys1]

85. read my posts

i will look forward to your posts here about your outrage at the dunn and zimmerman miscarriages and not just the obvious ones but there are a few hundred thousand more

[NaturalHigh]

86. I have read your posts...

and I honestly have no idea whether or not you are condoning the attack on Mr. Utash. What is clear to me is that you are using this thread to push your agenda. Fair enough, but I am finished indulging you. Obviously, nothing I might say will influence your way of thinking, so I see no reason to waste any more bandwidth with you.

[randys1]

87. no you havent or you would see that i said not once but twice

that i was not condoning violence

and you will never understand just how privileged you are if white and what the true meaning of this story is

[Romulox]

84. Wow this thread is disappointing to me.

/metro Detroiter

[NaturalHigh]

91. I'm disappointed too.

It seems to me that some people, if not actually condoning the attack, are going out of their way to excuse it.

[rumdude]

104. There is contingent of DUers who are sort of nuts n/t

[Blue_Tires]

105. there's a little bit of grey area between "excusing" the attack and wanting a 16-year-old

tried as an adult and given 20+ years for assault...

Do I even have to mention the fact that if that driver was black nobody even hears about this news outside of Detroit?

[NaturalHigh]

107. What about the adults who took part?

What do they deserve if convicted?

What's the age when someone who took part in a brutal assault that nearly killed the victim should be punished?

[MO_Moderate]

88. Yep, rot in prison