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CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 01:05 PM Apr 2014

Because knives were used in the mass stabbing attack yesterday, we should not regulate cars

Regulating cars would have done nothing to stop the knife attack yesterday.

If you regulate cars and make them safer, or make people have to meet more requirements to use/own them, they'll simply use knives, which are comparatively easier to use/own.

If you regulate cars, only law abiding people will follow the regulations and register and follow the rules.

Those who break the rules, laws and regulations associated with cars, they won't care.

Therefore, because knives were shown yesterday to be quite dangerous in their own right, there is no point in either strengthening regulations of cars, driving, or drivers. Because it just won't work and criminals will just find a way around it anyway.

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Because knives were used in the mass stabbing attack yesterday, we should not regulate cars (Original Post) CreekDog Apr 2014 OP
Operating a car on public roads is a privilege The Straight Story Apr 2014 #1
Using or owning a knife is a privilege CreekDog Apr 2014 #3
When owning things is a privilege and not a right The Straight Story Apr 2014 #5
you said driving is a privilege, i'm just stating a similar factual observation CreekDog Apr 2014 #8
If some had their way owning a car, knife, gun would at the whim of a select few The Straight Story Apr 2014 #9
then why haven't you advocated for a right to bear knives in the constitution? CreekDog Apr 2014 #17
No need to - I don't see people here trying to remove those rights, just some rights The Straight Story Apr 2014 #22
i see gun advocates argue over and over again for a ban on all cars CreekDog Apr 2014 #30
Simply to show how dumb the gun laws proposed are The Straight Story Apr 2014 #34
Sure you do. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2014 #54
Same reason we don't have to advocate for the right to bear guns, it's already there! Bazinga Apr 2014 #60
Should you have the right to own a nuclear weapon? Bandit Apr 2014 #6
One does not exclude the other The Straight Story Apr 2014 #15
The government does restrict certain items, Switchblades, Lawn darts, even some that are Bandit Apr 2014 #37
What counties outlaw alcohol? IronGate Apr 2014 #40
There certainly are counties that ban alcohol. onecaliberal Apr 2014 #48
This I did not know. IronGate Apr 2014 #49
You're welcome. onecaliberal Apr 2014 #58
But one can still possess it there it just can't be sold there oneofthe99 Apr 2014 #64
The amount you can possess it limited. onecaliberal Apr 2014 #77
That's not a ban, that's just a non-sales law. NYC_SKP Apr 2014 #87
The list of dry counties is huge. NCTraveler Apr 2014 #62
Here we have something interesting The Straight Story Apr 2014 #42
I think it is only a very radical person that wants to outlaw guns, however that does not Bandit Apr 2014 #45
Ok, so we agree on something :) The Straight Story Apr 2014 #53
Some gun bans are perfectly constitutional hack89 Apr 2014 #51
when lawn darts are outlawed, only outlaws will have lawn darts CreekDog Apr 2014 #68
It is understood by most that the 2A protects an individual right to own firearms hack89 Apr 2014 #27
The 21st Amendment protects your right to possess alcohol also but many Counties Bandit Apr 2014 #41
No - the second section bans the importation of alcohol in violation of state or territorial law hack89 Apr 2014 #43
The Second amendment made no change is laws regarding liability. happyslug Apr 2014 #81
Another fine suggestion from the people who would propose regulation for others. geckosfeet Apr 2014 #2
No, the argument is that because knife regulation didn't stop the attack yesterday... CreekDog Apr 2014 #4
So - make more. geckosfeet Apr 2014 #61
These pro knife OP's should not be allowed. rrneck Apr 2014 #7
By golly, it's against law to carry an 8 inch knife, but yahoos can walk down the street with gunz. Hoyt Apr 2014 #10
Owning "gunz" is a civil liberty. Owning knives is not. hack89 Apr 2014 #11
which is why all knives are currently banned CreekDog Apr 2014 #14
The Constitution still allows regulation and even banning. hack89 Apr 2014 #19
why is why they're banned now CreekDog Apr 2014 #24
First lets be honest and admit that many here do support full scale bans hack89 Apr 2014 #32
well you said i did and i don't, so your word is shaky to say the least CreekDog Apr 2014 #36
You and I mostly likely agree on most gun control laws. hack89 Apr 2014 #39
Maybe you should post a poll. nt rrneck Apr 2014 #46
All this talk about 'protected rights' etc. etc. etc. is just dancing around the real question..... groundloop Apr 2014 #65
Here are some suggestions hack89 Apr 2014 #70
Yeah, those who cannot walk out the door without a gun see only their side of the issue. Hoyt Apr 2014 #18
Not everyone is as evenhanded, rational and non-emotional as you are. hack89 Apr 2014 #23
I disagree. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2014 #56
i knew they couldn't fool you! CreekDog Apr 2014 #73
Butter knives are regulated? I walked into Target madinmaryland Apr 2014 #12
I used a butter knife as a straight screwdriver last week and snapped the tip clean off... Hip_Flask Apr 2014 #13
knives are a privilege CreekDog Apr 2014 #16
I tried but... Hip_Flask Apr 2014 #28
When butter knives are outlawed... Dr. Strange Apr 2014 #21
have you registered your butter knife? CreekDog Apr 2014 #25
Just the $20 ones. Dr. Strange Apr 2014 #29
Win! Jamastiene Apr 2014 #90
And when Rush the band is outlawed... madinmaryland Apr 2014 #52
Outlaws and Nickelback fans. Dr. Strange Apr 2014 #82
Dude. The Outlaws are not in the shitty category as RUSH and NICKELBACK... madinmaryland Apr 2014 #83
How DARE you mention Nickelback and Rush in the same category U4ikLefty Apr 2014 #89
Other than the fact that they're both Canadian... Dr. Strange Apr 2014 #92
Put me in jail becasue Rush is the best! U4ikLefty Apr 2014 #88
It seems to me that the proper course of action here would be to attack Iraq. nt Zorra Apr 2014 #20
And if that doesn't work, IronGate Apr 2014 #26
LOL underpants Apr 2014 #35
and .... All forks should be confiscated ... Now .... MindMover Apr 2014 #31
After all, they're just multi-pronged assault knives. nt Bazinga Apr 2014 #63
Excellent post. underpants Apr 2014 #33
So, this is another thread about guns, eh? Skidmore Apr 2014 #38
Pretty much. rrneck Apr 2014 #44
For some, everything is ultimately about guns. nt hack89 Apr 2014 #47
You ain't wrong. (n/t) Iggo Apr 2014 #59
But the incredible thing is there are RW nutters who make these sort of arguments muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #50
Quelle surprise! Lizzie Poppet Apr 2014 #57
Cars ARE regulated! Warpy Apr 2014 #55
ONLY if they're used in public. beevul Apr 2014 #71
you could not sell it though CreekDog Apr 2014 #74
Why not? n/t oneshooter Apr 2014 #80
Gun nuts jehop61 Apr 2014 #66
The rest of the world looks at U.S gun "laws"... NealK Apr 2014 #67
And some of us look at places with strict gun control... beevul Apr 2014 #72
you're not convincing anyone CreekDog Apr 2014 #75
28 recs out of 77 posts and you think its a mandate? TheSarcastinator Apr 2014 #78
i take those 28 more seriously than i take your sniping CreekDog Apr 2014 #79
Recommendations are highly over rated. You can call the president an asshole and get 200 recs. NYC_SKP Apr 2014 #86
I wish I understood if the OP is pro knife ownership or oneofthe99 Apr 2014 #69
the post was about regulation CreekDog Apr 2014 #76
Your logic is like a hurricane. NYC_SKP Apr 2014 #84
Mostly everyone else gets it CreekDog Apr 2014 #85
They will pry my knife collection out of my cold, dead hands... Jamastiene Apr 2014 #91
the only solution to a bad cook with a knife is a good cook with a knife CreekDog Apr 2014 #93
Knives don't cut veggies. Jamastiene Apr 2014 #94

The Straight Story

(48,121 posts)
1. Operating a car on public roads is a privilege
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 01:11 PM
Apr 2014

Owning a car, like most other things, is a right (if you have the money you can buy one - you just can't drive it everywhere).

Guns and knives are similar. You can own them but cannot, legally, carry or shoot them anywhere you like.

Some folks want to change that to remove the right to purchase one item but not the others.

The law says you cannot use your car, knife, gun to harm others. To get a license to drive you have to pass a test, get a photo ID, etc - to own a car you do not.

You are not regulating cars but the use of them on public property. Gun use is also regulated on public property (try carrying one into a courtroom).

You want to make more laws about who can carry or shoot on public property - fine. But don't infringe on private property, hunters, sport shooters, etc on their own land or that of their friends.

The Straight Story

(48,121 posts)
5. When owning things is a privilege and not a right
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 01:18 PM
Apr 2014

Then we have lost too many rights.

I think folks should be able to own and grow pot plants as well - stopping them from doing so and making it criminal has hurt our country and many millions of people and been a waste of money.

What you DO with things you own is another matter entirely. And we have plenty of laws dealing with that.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
8. you said driving is a privilege, i'm just stating a similar factual observation
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 01:20 PM
Apr 2014

driving is a privilege allowed by laws, as is owning knives.

clearly both of these things will be banned in the absence of a constitutional protection.

The Straight Story

(48,121 posts)
9. If some had their way owning a car, knife, gun would at the whim of a select few
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 01:22 PM
Apr 2014

Right now you have the right to buy those things.

Do you want to remove that right and if so does the same reasoning you want to do so apply to other things?

Usage vs Ownership - regulate usage (as we already do) is one thing, prohibition is another.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
17. then why haven't you advocated for a right to bear knives in the constitution?
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 01:33 PM
Apr 2014

why haven't you advocated for a constitutional right to own a car?

i think this is just talk.

The Straight Story

(48,121 posts)
22. No need to - I don't see people here trying to remove those rights, just some rights
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 01:36 PM
Apr 2014

When people start wanting to remove all cars because of what less than one percent do with them I will be right there along with other liberals to point out how dumb it is.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
30. i see gun advocates argue over and over again for a ban on all cars
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 01:43 PM
Apr 2014

and all driving.

often in threads about guns.

i'm surprised you are so cavalier about this.

The Straight Story

(48,121 posts)
34. Simply to show how dumb the gun laws proposed are
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 01:55 PM
Apr 2014

You don't need a license/etc to own a car.

If your logic in limiting the right to own something (like a gun) is because a few misuse it and you apply that same logic to other things (like cars) you wind up with 'ban cars'.

Some folks here want to ban people from being allowed to purchase a gun because of deaths and accidents. There are many deaths and accidents involving cars and knives. Therefore, if you aim is to protect everyone from something someone else owns that could cause harm and your belief is that banning such things is the way to go about it....then ban cars and knives as well.

That is where we the logic breaking down. We see how silly the whole idea is. Cars, guns, knives, etc are just tools people use - to ban them because a few don't use them properly is just dumb.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
54. Sure you do.
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 03:05 PM
Apr 2014

Unless your sarcasm/satire detector is fubar, I very much doubt you've seen any such thing.

Bazinga

(331 posts)
60. Same reason we don't have to advocate for the right to bear guns, it's already there!
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 03:13 PM
Apr 2014

ARMS, n. plu. [L. arma.]

1. Weapons of offense, or armor for defense and protection of the body.

Webster's 1828 dictionary.

Bandit

(21,475 posts)
6. Should you have the right to own a nuclear weapon?
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 01:18 PM
Apr 2014

Or how about Anthrax? Should you be able to possess anthrax? There are many things that the government regulates including switchblade knives.

The Straight Story

(48,121 posts)
15. One does not exclude the other
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 01:31 PM
Apr 2014

Firearms have been used to hunt and defend oneself since this country was created.

A nuclear weapon affects a larger area (hence the WMD designation).

IF you want to continue with that line of reasoning, that the government restricts ownership of a few items and therefore can and should others, why not restrict abortion, owning a knife, tv's, certain types of clothing, etc?

If you cannot make the argument for any of those things and you are happy with just the simple 'well, they restrict one thing and their logic for doing so doesn't matter' than where do YOU personally draw the line or do you prefer a few folks in DC get to make all the choices for you?

Guns help feed family, help the elderly and others have some sense of security in their own home, others shoot for sport. We have made laws on how you can use them.

Bandit

(21,475 posts)
37. The government does restrict certain items, Switchblades, Lawn darts, even some that are
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 02:06 PM
Apr 2014

constitutionally protected. Such as alcohol. Alcohol is protected by the US Constitution but many Counties outlaw it. There is much precedent for gun restrictions. Machine guns are illegal to own without special permission. Why is that do you suppose? I would guess because they are capable of rapid fire. Large capacity magazines provide the exact same thing. Why should there be no restrictions on those?

 

IronGate

(2,186 posts)
40. What counties outlaw alcohol?
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 02:12 PM
Apr 2014

I know some restrict it due to blue laws, but I don't think any county outright bans it.

onecaliberal

(32,894 posts)
48. There certainly are counties that ban alcohol.
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 02:40 PM
Apr 2014

Pope county in Arkansas is a DRY county. They BAN it, you can not purchase alcohol in that county.

onecaliberal

(32,894 posts)
58. You're welcome.
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 03:10 PM
Apr 2014

My best friend lives there. (Lifelong dem) There are other counties in that state where you can not purchase alcohol.

onecaliberal

(32,894 posts)
77. The amount you can possess it limited.
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 05:27 PM
Apr 2014

And it doesn't change the fact that you still can't buy it there, you have to drive an hour away to even get your hands on any.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
87. That's not a ban, that's just a non-sales law.
Fri Apr 11, 2014, 01:32 AM
Apr 2014

A ban of the sort that gun grabbers support would make it illegal to possess or import alcohol, which is not the case with Pope County, AR.

The only prohibition in Pope County is one against sales of alcohol.

eom

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
62. The list of dry counties is huge.
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 03:20 PM
Apr 2014

Just giving you this for a little info. Where I grew up this was not a concern. When I started vacationing in NC and Kentucky I had to really pay attention. Just because it is a dry county doesn't mean that one cannot possess alcohol. Sometimes you have to drive to the next county over and bring it home. Knowing the laws with respect to this is important.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dry_communities_by_U.S._state

The Straight Story

(48,121 posts)
42. Here we have something interesting
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 02:21 PM
Apr 2014

On the one hand I don't see why they should restrict lawn darts or switchblades. Just because they do does not make it right.

And you can own a machine gun, you just need more paperwork - which brings us to:

Common uses. A gun has a common use of self protection and hunting for food. You have the right to protect yourself and gather/hunt for food (though restrictions apply on public lands and on some animals). Machine guns could be seen to fall outside of that scope but many feel they do not (and both sides have a point).

Concerning lawn darts - the ban is somewhat silly. One can make such things at home easily from things you find at a hardware store. I am sure some would want to ban the sale of anything that could be used to make them or throw people in jail who make their own at home, but again I see that as just plain stupid.

Just because the government can and has banned some things not make it right (as we have seen with alcohol - and though some counties outlaw the sale of it you can still own alcohol and drink it).

Guns serve a legitimate purpose in society, bows and arrows before that. If you want to restrict the right to self defense to only those in power more power to you, but I don't. I don't own a gun but someday may like to purchase one, especially if I end up living back out in the country. If others don't want to own a gun they don't have to buy one.

Bandit

(21,475 posts)
45. I think it is only a very radical person that wants to outlaw guns, however that does not
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 02:31 PM
Apr 2014

mean that some sensible regulations can not be put into place. Background checks, restrictions on large capacity magazines, shotguns with less than eighteen in barrels, etc. Guns are an integral part of America but so should be common sense.

The Straight Story

(48,121 posts)
53. Ok, so we agree on something :)
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 02:58 PM
Apr 2014

There are some here (and elsewhere) who do want bans.

I am a realist when it comes down to it.

I used to work in the reloading business. We sold plenty of dies for .50 cal and such. Knew people who shot just for fun and would spend hours testing different loads, target practice, etc.

Some folks did have large magazines and while I don't see a general 'need' for them I can see why they are worrisome to some. Banning them doesn't really see the way to go though. The idealist says just let people own me, the realist sees the need for compromise and while not restricting them having sales of them recorded (if it would make people 'feel' more safe - it won't stop criminals from using them though or making their own....)

Some folks think I am against any laws or regulations at all, not true. What I am against is using fear and hyperbole to promote laws. I am biased in that I worked in the industry and met a lot of people the world over who shoot just for the heck of it and collected guns. What we see day in and out is one side of the issue - the few who use guns to harm others. They are not the norm, no one likes such people, and we all want to keep guns from such people and get them the help they need.

That is where the realist comes in - background checks done by states? Fine with that. Getting rid of all semi-autos because of those few? Silly. I think many in the gun community would be ok with restricting large capacity magazines -if- they knew it was not a first step in adding more and more to that list - and I am reminded of when I was younger and in Ohio they added not wearing seat belts as something they could ticket you for - lawmakers promised it would only be a secondary offense and years later bumped it up to a primary. Might be ok with some but the point it is they start with something they can get by and then incrementally add to it. We see the same thing with abortions where states say they won't ban them, just want to add this one restriction. Then another next year....

We fear the end result (banning all guns) and don't trust those who say 'just one more law' - and no matter what you do there will always be some who won't obey and so we add more (thinking they will). Make no laws? No. But at some point, statistically, you will always have people that won't be affected but the vast majority will. Every shooting has broken some laws that were meant to prevent them - and prevention does work for over ninety nine percent of gun owners already.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
51. Some gun bans are perfectly constitutional
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 02:52 PM
Apr 2014

as it stands right now, the only explicitly defined gun ownership right is the right to own a handgun for self defense - that is straight out of Heller, which also explicitly states that guns can be regulated.

And alcohol is not protected by the US Constitution - the second section of the 21A explicitly protects the power of states to regulate and even ban alcohol.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
68. when lawn darts are outlawed, only outlaws will have lawn darts
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 04:13 PM
Apr 2014

i mean that kind of statement doesn't sound like it makes sense, at first, but wait a while, and yeah, it still doesn't make sense.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
27. It is understood by most that the 2A protects an individual right to own firearms
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 01:40 PM
Apr 2014

no American has ever had the constitutional right to own explosive devices, crew served weapons or artillery. That definition was further refined in 1938 and has served us well ever since.

So no - we should not have the right to own the items you mention. It is settled law.

Bandit

(21,475 posts)
41. The 21st Amendment protects your right to possess alcohol also but many Counties
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 02:18 PM
Apr 2014

still outlaw it.. Just because it is a supposed constitutional protection does not always mean it really is. If one Amendment can be by-passed so can any of them.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
43. No - the second section bans the importation of alcohol in violation of state or territorial law
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 02:23 PM
Apr 2014

so it specifically protects the power of local government to regulate and even ban alcohol.

Section 2. The transportation or importation into any State, Territory, or possession of the United States for delivery or use therein of intoxicating liquors, in violation of the laws thereof, is hereby prohibited.
 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
81. The Second amendment made no change is laws regarding liability.
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 06:18 PM
Apr 2014

Gunpowder was and is an inherently dangerous powder. The common law rule was if gun powder blew up, the owner of the powder was liable for any damage, even if he was without fault and did everything right. Thus if kept gunpowder in your home and it harmed someone, you were liable (and the difference between Civil and Criminal liability was NOT that different back in 1787, the divergence was ongoing as it had been for centuries, but they is and was an overlap between Civil Liability and criminal negligence.

The other rule of law NOT changed by the Second amendment, was that if you fired a weapon, you were responsible for anything it hit. Thus if you carefully fired a weapon and killed someone anyway, you were liable for manslaughter (Murder required an intent to kill, manslaughter did and does not).

I bring these two items up for when it comes to atomic weapons, both rules apply. i.e. if an atomic bomb goes off, the owner of the weapon is liable for any damage. The law also permits the Government to pass regulations that minimize such losses, regulations that can make owing such weapons to expensive (an effective ban).

Atomic bombs contain radioactive material. Under the above rules, if anyone is harmed do to that radioactivity, the owner has to pay. Given that such harm would be widespread, the Government could pass reasonable regulations that someone who owns such weapons keep them in a place where the radioactivity will harm no innocent third party. Thus the atomic weapon may be cheap to obtain compared to where it has to be kept.

Just like the Government of 1792 (The adoption of the Bill of Rights) did not change any of the strict liability laws as to Gunpowder or liability if you fired a weapon, atomic weapons by their nature are inherently dangerous (as are the Anthrax you mention). Thus the same rules as to Gunpowder applies to Atomic Weapons, Chemical Weapons and Biological weapons, reasonable regulations are permissible, and given the nature of these weapons reasonable regulations can include storing them someplace safe which can be on a Government base or if no such base is available banned.

Every one of the Rights in the Bill of Rights are subject to reasonable restrictions, if such restrictions are the only way to maintain over safety. Thus a ban on private individuals owning Atomic bombs, biological weapons and even Chemical Weapons are justified under the concept that these are so inherently dangerous that anything but a ban would be ineffective.

Now, the real issue is how far down the list do one go? Technically one can own a Supersonic Air Plane in the US, but they can NOT fly it (Sonic Booms are something stick liability will apply to). One can own artillery, the real question is the ban on ammunition violate the Second Amendment, if someone can store such ammunition safety?

The same rules applies to Tanks and other Armored Vehicles, you can own them, but you can NOT operate them on the public roads. Such a ban can be justified do to excess damage to roads from the tracks (If the tracks used do NOT do such damage, then use of such vehicles on roads may be permissible, but such safe tracks also lose the ability to dig into the ground to give the tracks vehicle traction on bad soil).

Remember the Second Amendment does NOT require the State or Federal Government to do anything, thus if they is no place to fire such weapons, one can not fire such weapons. Thus reasonable restrictions could include NOT hoarding ammunition that the Government determines is unsafe AND that such a ruling is NOT arbitrary (i.e, there are facts that support the Government Regulations are being reasonable, not a back handed attempt to ban something the government does not want).

In my opinion, Atomic bombs, being radioactive, can be banned by the Government to be owned by Civilians on the ground of radioactivity problems. Anthrax and other biological and Chemical weapons suffer from a similar problem, to high a threat to be stored anywhere but the most secure facilities, and civilians rarely have that capacity and as such can be banned.

Lesser weapons are more questionable. Having a Tank may frighten someone, but unless you take it off your land, it will cause your neighbors no harm unless it is stolen (and Strict Liability of Gunpowder NEVER extended to the use of Stolen Gun powder by third parties, thus the same rule as to tanks and other weapons). I have always question the constitutionality on the ban on Automatic Weapons, for such weapons are clearly a type of Weapon a member of a militia would prefer to carry into combat. The harm such weapons can do is like someone holding a musket in his home, it is dangerous only when it is loaded. Thus should be constitutional (but given the life sentence one gets if convicted I am NOT about to challenge the ban on automatic weapons for I fear many of the same people on the US Supreme Court will rule that such a ban in constitutional for it is not needed for "Self protection" the key to their ruling as to the various bans on pistol ownership. Scalia has even hinted at this. In simple terms Scalia does not fear someone with a pistol, for that is just a hood. Scalia fears someone with an M-16 for that may be a revolutionary).

In short, I think a Government Ban on any weapons that can be shown that if NOT properly stored can cause harm. On the other hand any weapon or ammunition that can be properly stored can not be banned. Most weapons most people can buy are of the later type (and that can include Tanks and Artillery and supersonic jet fighters). Weapons that are known to "leak" (Gas, bugs or nuclear radiation) can be banned for such leaks can cause massive harm to other people for they are the most like Gunpowder and the strict liability rulings under the Common Laws as to Gunpowder and other similar inherently dangerous items.

geckosfeet

(9,644 posts)
2. Another fine suggestion from the people who would propose regulation for others.
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 01:12 PM
Apr 2014

AFAIK all states regulate knives.

STATE KNIFE LAWS

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
4. No, the argument is that because knife regulation didn't stop the attack yesterday...
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 01:16 PM
Apr 2014

car regulations should be thrown out, and possibly knife regulation.

they don't work, criminals ignore them and people will just die from other stuff.

if they don't die from cars, they'll just die from knives.

we can't do anything about any of this stuff, no regulation in the history of mankind has ever worked, no law has ever slowed a criminal by even tenths of a second from committing their crime, no regulation of a car or knife has stopped all deaths associated with either of those things.

regulation, laws and rules on stuff doesn't make anyone safer. the argument is that nobody should bother.

rrneck

(17,671 posts)
7. These pro knife OP's should not be allowed.
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 01:19 PM
Apr 2014

Before you know it knife nuts will hear this dog whistle and inundate us with knife porn and bullshit history about how knives have been around forever and they're just tools and shit.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
10. By golly, it's against law to carry an 8 inch knife, but yahoos can walk down the street with gunz.
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 01:22 PM
Apr 2014

The gun fanciers are going to find some rationale for their bad habit, no matter how tenuous or outright stupid.

Love the OP.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
14. which is why all knives are currently banned
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 01:31 PM
Apr 2014

and also cars, which are also currently completely illegal and are being confiscated as we speak because in the absence of a constitutional protection, they have been made illegal by the "grabbers".

hack89

(39,171 posts)
19. The Constitution still allows regulation and even banning.
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 01:34 PM
Apr 2014

It is simply that the legal standard becomes much higher - but then you know that.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
24. why is why they're banned now
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 01:38 PM
Apr 2014

surely you aren't saying that one is able to own a knife? that thing your mother told you to be careful with and not play with?

those are banned. you can't have those anymore, they've all been made illegal. the grabbers are so worried about your safety that they banned them because there was no constitutional amendment and because all rules and regulations all inevitably lead to the slippery slope of fullscale bans.

and so thus, our regulation of knives and cars has now left us with what --they are now completely illegal. nobody can own them except criminals who don't care about the laws.

how did this happen?

the very first law and regulation of a car or knife.

that moment was immediately followed with a ban of both, because prohibition immediately follows.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
32. First lets be honest and admit that many here do support full scale bans
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 01:53 PM
Apr 2014

but more importantly, the resistance to many proposed regulations is twofold: some are feelgood measures that do not actually address the problem and are mere security theater - registration and AWBs come immediately to mind. Gun owners are not willing to give up their rights so you can "feel" safer.

Secondly, gun control advocates are not to be trusted. You always tells us where you want to start but you never tell us where you want to finish. "Its a good start" is a common comment after some gun control law is passed. Part of the issue is that the gun control movement is fragmented and speaks with different voices. Naturally we pay more attention to the loud extremists - especially when the supposedly more rational gun control advocates never challenge their more extreme compatriots. That would lead a reasonable person to believe that while you may not personally support an all out ban, if one were to happen you would not oppose it. Look at the more prominent anti-gunners at DU. They are not doing your movement any good with their constant references to the KKK and RW militias.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
36. well you said i did and i don't, so your word is shaky to say the least
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 01:59 PM
Apr 2014

furthermore, many gun advocates have actually stated, verbatim, "let's ban all cars".

now i never said "let's ban all guns" but you say that i support that.

but you also say that those who actually said "let's ban all cars" don't support that.

it's honestly not worth the effort to attempt to find the endpoint of your pretzel logic.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
39. You and I mostly likely agree on most gun control laws.
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 02:10 PM
Apr 2014

I support all proposed laws except AWBs and registration.

But you would never admit that. The very fact that I own guns and have the nerve to disagree with you is enough to make me a gun nut.

I know you don't support total bans - but I also know that you would not oppose one if one was proposed. A fine but important distinction. Unless of course you are willing to go on the record as promising to actively fight such a proposal?

groundloop

(11,522 posts)
65. All this talk about 'protected rights' etc. etc. etc. is just dancing around the real question.....
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 03:36 PM
Apr 2014

What do you propose we do to reduce or eliminate innocent victims being gunned down?

hack89

(39,171 posts)
70. Here are some suggestions
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 04:15 PM
Apr 2014

1. Universal background checks for all gun sales.

2. The states obey the law and keep the background check databases up to date.

3. End the war on drugs and focus the justice system on violent crimes. The biggest predictor of someone becoming a murderer is a history of violent crimes. Lets not give violent offenders second, third or forth chances. Lets put them in prison before they kill or maim someone.

4. Since two thirds of all gun deaths are suicides, we need full mental care as part of any healthcare reform. Since mental health issues play a huge role in mass killings, that makes even more important.

5. I would license all gun owners - a system like Illinois Firearm Owner's Identification Card (FOID) would be good. A FOID would then be required to purchase guns and ammo. You can then require background checks and safety training as a continue for getting a FOID.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
23. Not everyone is as evenhanded, rational and non-emotional as you are.
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 01:36 PM
Apr 2014

what can I say - you are truly unique.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
73. i knew they couldn't fool you!
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 05:10 PM
Apr 2014

sure the left and right arm look different but you wisely pointed out that they are both arms.

madinmaryland

(64,933 posts)
12. Butter knives are regulated? I walked into Target
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 01:26 PM
Apr 2014

last week and bought a set which also included forks and spoons. They did not run a background check.

 

Hip_Flask

(233 posts)
13. I used a butter knife as a straight screwdriver last week and snapped the tip clean off...
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 01:30 PM
Apr 2014

Do I have to register it as a sawed off weapon now?

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
16. knives are a privilege
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 01:32 PM
Apr 2014

don't you worry everyday that you will lose the right to butter your toast because it's not in the constitution?

U4ikLefty

(4,012 posts)
89. How DARE you mention Nickelback and Rush in the same category
Fri Apr 11, 2014, 02:07 AM
Apr 2014

Last edited Fri Apr 11, 2014, 02:38 AM - Edit history (1)

Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!

Dr. Strange

(25,923 posts)
92. Other than the fact that they're both Canadian...
Fri Apr 11, 2014, 09:34 AM
Apr 2014

and they both appeared in that one Chick tract, they really shouldn't be mentioned together.

But in madeinmaryland's defense, he thinks the Brazilian joke is funny, so clearly his mind has gone a little scooters.

rrneck

(17,671 posts)
44. Pretty much.
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 02:25 PM
Apr 2014

You could probably post about swimming pools, fire extinguishers, cans of beans, and bicycle wheels and some here would find their way to the gun issue.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,361 posts)
50. But the incredible thing is there are RW nutters who make these sort of arguments
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 02:43 PM
Apr 2014

about guns. I know, you can't believe how goddam stupid those people are, but they do talk that way.

This thread provides a vital service of satire about the idiots.

Warpy

(111,339 posts)
55. Cars ARE regulated!
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 03:05 PM
Apr 2014

They must pass certain safety standards, be inspected ever so often, and their owners must be proficient in using them.

 

beevul

(12,194 posts)
71. ONLY if they're used in public.
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 04:32 PM
Apr 2014

If I so desired, I could take a vehicle, remove the seatbelts, put aircraft landing lights on the roof, smash out the other lights, the windshield, remove the doors, and do 130 mph across any private property I have authorization to do so on, without a license, insurance, registration, plates, or any other paperwork. And it would be completely legal.

What you are talking about, applies only to public use.

 

beevul

(12,194 posts)
72. And some of us look at places with strict gun control...
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 04:35 PM
Apr 2014

And some of us look at places with strict gun control, like say Japan whos suicide rate is higher than our by quite alot, where they can beat a confession out of you with no issue of legality...

And hurt ourselves from the massive facepalm.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
75. you're not convincing anyone
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 05:16 PM
Apr 2014

look at the recommends, people get it. you don't. if you don't get it, i don't particularly care. the main thing i care about is if you try to make people misunderstand the issue to get them to agree with your point of view.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
79. i take those 28 more seriously than i take your sniping
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 05:38 PM
Apr 2014

as it should be.

you're out of step here, you want me to pretend the 28 recommends are less representative of regular users than you, 1 user's disapproval?

the hell i will.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
86. Recommendations are highly over rated. You can call the president an asshole and get 200 recs.
Fri Apr 11, 2014, 01:00 AM
Apr 2014

One just has to look at who is hitting the rec button to really put a value on it.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
84. Your logic is like a hurricane.
Thu Apr 10, 2014, 08:14 PM
Apr 2014

Not really, hurricanes are actually quite well ordered and understood.

I couldn't resist the temptation to connect to the song, however.

&feature=kp

Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
91. They will pry my knife collection out of my cold, dead hands...
Fri Apr 11, 2014, 02:47 AM
Apr 2014

I have just always wanted to say that. In reality, if they do make knives illegal, the reason they will pry my knives out of my cold, dead hands is because the cops will shoot me with their guns and take my knives.

But, no, guns don't kill people...

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
93. the only solution to a bad cook with a knife is a good cook with a knife
Fri Apr 11, 2014, 11:32 AM
Apr 2014

Last edited Fri Apr 11, 2014, 02:21 PM - Edit history (1)

Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
94. Knives don't cut veggies.
Fri Apr 11, 2014, 05:46 PM
Apr 2014

People do. And if they didn't even have a knife, they'd still cut the veggies just by looking at them and willing them to cut themselves.

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