If the Supreme Court decides the mandate is unConstitutional

[Uncle Joe]

it will totally clarify the positions of the political parties.

You will either be for what I and many others believe to be the best system; that being universal single payer coverage for every American from the cradle to the grave that will be funded by taxes with the elimination or major reduction of the for profit insurance industry's power and hold on the people's health care.

Or on the other hand you can continue to promote blood money for profit insurance as the answer to our nation's health care. Of course their track record is abysmal and the fundamental concept supporting that kind of notion dysfunctional.

However at the very least this Missouri Compromise between the best interests of the people and those of the for profit insurance industry will be put to rest, politicians will be required to run on it one way or the other.

May the best argument win.

[Lint Head]

1. Universal single payer coverage! Yes!

[rocktivity]

2. Here's hoping that Obama has a universal care "nuclear option" in his back pocket

if he "loses."


rocktivity

[GusFring]

3. And how will he pass it with the current congress?

[vi5]

6. Yes, let's think about this.......

If this is struck down the options are pretty much going to be:

1) Obama and the Democratic party going all in and really doubling their effort and fight for a more liberal and universal health care set up in this country. They use this to embolden their fight, hire the best consultants and marketing campaign people to roll out and educate the public on why Healthcare reform, and specifically universal health care is so important to everyone.

Or
2) The other option is that they internalize the defeat, internalize what everyone said about this, and run cowering as far away from healthcare reform as possible and have the only lesson they take away from this being that the country really is conservative and that they really need to start governing more conservatively and that the people really don't want healthcare reform and instead focus more on bipartisanship. Maybe they'll even try harder to come up with a good medicare compromise as well.

Based on the past couple of years, based on any number of things we've witnessed and heard about how the current leaders and members of the Democratic party roll, what do you really think is the more likely outcome of those two possibilities?

[Duer 157099]

13. How utterly depressing

that the answer is so obvious

[Demeter]

4. Thanks for a whiff of sanity, Uncle Joe

After the day I've had, it was a blessing.

[Uncle Joe]

15. Thanks for the thanks, Demeter.

I hope your day is getting better.

[Demeter]

16. Where there's life, there's hope that tomorrow

will bring another chance to really screw things up.

I used to be an optimist. Really. That was before Reagan.

[vi5]

5. Will it clarify the differences?

It will be crystal clear that every Republican to a number is against healthcare reform and definitely against universal single payer coverage.

Can you say the opposite about the Democrats? How many of them are on the record, for Universal Single Payer coverage? Unless you can say that the platform of the Democratic party, and/or the votes of all of it's members go towards supporting Universal Single Payer coverage, then no this will not clarify the positions of the political parties.


May the best argument win? Hell we have a Democrat appointed Solicitor General arguing on behalf of a GODDAMNED REPUBLICAN HEALTHCARE PLAN, and we can't even seem to do THAT right and win that argument. Does anyone honestly think that we'll have any more luck arguing something that no Republicans and not even a good chunk of Democrats are in favor of?

[kenny blankenship]

10. The Democratic Party will have a choice to make, won't it?

Give you NOTHING, and keep on taking that sweet, sweet Insurance Mafia Baksheesh...
-OR-
Adopt the last remaining avenue to the provision of Universal Health Care: Medicare For All. Which is a Federal program of long standing, despite the best efforts of generations of Repukes, which is wildly popular, and unassailable in the Supreme Court.

If Obamacare is struck down by the SCOTUS (over the IM) then the Democrats will face a MOMENT OF TRUTH as a party: stand with the "little people" voting base, or stand with the 1% campaign donor base. No middle road, fudge factor, wiggle room or "nuance" will remain.

We will get to see what's what, and who is really on whose side.

[vi5]

11. Absolutely....

I'll give you 3 guesses as to which side I expect them to come down on.

It will be a very telling moment. If after adopting a Republican drafted healthcare plan, then failing to sell and defend that Republican drafted Healthcare plan TO REPUBLICANS, I don't want to believe this was an intentional rigging of the game. But if the response to it being struck down is simply shrugged shoulders and moving on to whatever else is next, and if that involves touching medicare (as I suspect it does), then that is it. I am done. It will be perfectly clear to me that the Democratic party has been fully purchased and fully co-opted by the same forces that have the Republican party in it's grasp.

[Uncle Joe]

17. The people are for universal coverage and the Democratic Party

*know it, but a mandate to enshrine a for profit insurance industry aka; primary dysfunctional villain in the system, is a different matter altogether.

Even if the the SCOTUS says the mandate is unConstitutional which I would actually agree with, Obama's efforts will have moved the ball farther down the field than those of the Clinton Administration, which never even passed the Congress.

Perhaps your last paragraph answers itself, even if my job were arguing on behalf of the government, it's a "GODDAMNED REPUBLICAN HEALTHCARE PLAN" and subconciously I may not be up to snuff in fighting for it to my optimum level.

I have to believe had this been universal healthcare coverage financed from the start by actual taxes and managed by the governement instead of empowered blood money for profit insurance corporations. I would be much more enthusiastic about defending it as I would actually believe in what I was doing as being Constitutional, not to mention beneficial. This is precisely what I'm talking about in regards to clarity both on the legal and poltical levels.

Having come so far, the people will not be denied, they know what is and what isn't and I do believe the next effort at healthcae reform will be much more successful because as it actually reflects the will of the people and politicians; come to accept reality knowing their ability to manipulate it has been greatly diminished.

* If the people have good information, I believe many Republicans know this as well.

[Johonny]

18. considering the health care bill is a conservative bill

that Republicans have disowned even though they came up with it. How does that clarify where the two parties sit?

Republicans voters are so low information voters Republicans can if Democrats disown it, just choose to support it again. They can then complain about activist judges that are preventing them from making personal responsibility a part of health care. Republicans were in 2010 running on protecting the medicare system against Obama although now in power they are trying to privatize it as an insurance based scheme. I repeat Republican voters do not want clarification and certainly care not at all for consistency in their politicians.

[geek tragedy]

7. If the SCOTUS rules the mandate unconstitutional, the game is over.

And we will have lost. Forever.

[Uncle Joe]

19. Forever is a long time and this is the second attempt at healthcare reform in the two most recent

Democratic Administrations, and it won't stop here.

Personally I believe the mandate is unConstitutional but I don't see a SCOTUS ruling against it as ending the fight so much as actually marking the lines as to what's possible and what isn't.

Universal single payer coverage financed by actual taxes going to the government ie; Universal Medicare would De Facto become the path.

[kenny blankenship]

8. If Democrats won't adopt Single Payer/Medicare as their *next* position

(next, as in pursuant to the defeat of Obamacare by the SCOTUS - which is a hypothetical condition that I doubt will actually occur)
Then the Democrats were never the answer to this problem anyway.

At a minumum, you will be able to correctly guess *how* they were going to "fix it later".

[newblewtoo]

12. I am thinking the fall back is Medicare for all

if this fails. How will the pubies defend against it? It exists and the demand will be there.

[malaise]

9. A loss here will be bad for Dems

Uncle Joe

[rgbecker]

14. Picture this senario...

Scotus rejects mandate but leaves law on the books. So Feds can't enforce the mandate with the penalty. Insurance companies are locked into law...still have to provide for pre conditions etc. They scream bloody mary, raise their rates. Public goes bizzirk. Quits the insurance companies and goes with nothing...the entire health care system as we know it grinds to a halt. Only remedy is Medicare for all. GOP can't figure out how to revive the private insurers...concede.

[Uncle Joe]

20. I read somewhere here at DU the law must be accepted or rejected in its' entirety,

I don't know if that's true or not.

If the law is rejected in its' entirety, then as I posted in my OP, I believe the positions of parties will be greatly clarified, there will be no murky, deal with the Devil on an unConstitutional middle ground. Political leaders will need to solidly stake out their positions to the public on this issue in order to get elected, and I believe ultimately the chances for unversal single payer will greatly improve as poltical leadership changes hands in Washington.

If as you suggest they just declare the mandate unConstitutional then your scenario may take hold, either way I believe the chances for universal single payer will actually improve as a result.