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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe N_____ing of Trayvon Martin - by The Rude Pundit (warning offensive)
3/27/2012
The Niggering of Trayvon Martin:
We see this again and again. A black male who captures the imagination of the nation must be degraded by the right. He must be turned into something else, some Other. President Obama can't simply be an educated black man from a lower middle-class background with whom they disagree ideologically. No, he's got to be an enemy, a foreigner, a nigger. It's hard to denigrate someone who might be like you, conservatives. But it's easy to attack a nigger because he's just a nigger. Or a coon.
When 17 year-old Trayvon Martin was shot dead, the process of transforming him from an average middle-class high school student to a dangerous thug who was asking for it began almost immediately (putting aside the profiling that George Zimmerman did the second he started stalking Martin around their gated community in his SUV). News reports say his body was tagged "John Doe" and held in the morgue for three days. Sorry, race apologists, but if that had been a white child, especially the white child of, say, a Tea Party member, there'd have been a fucking riot. Or, more likely, it just wouldn't have happened.
.......................
The niggering of Trayvon Martin works as every niggering does. It gives conservatives cover for their belief in the innate goodness of guns and the innate badness of anyone non-white who just dresses vaguely gangsta. It gives racists, open and closeted, a reason not to care. It allows them to see him as deserving of some punishment in general: if Zimmerman hadn't killed him, this narrative goes, well, fuck, chances are Martin would have been a criminal and better to get it over with now than pay for his incarceration.
...................................
Yeah, reality is way more complicated. Or simple, really. If you take "nigger" out of the equation, you're left with "child."
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2012/03/niggering-of-trayvon-martin-we-see-this.html
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uponit7771
(90,344 posts)...in Trayvon bag and then get the facts about the suspension!!!
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)just a thought.
CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)Someone posted racist tweets about "The Hunger Games" yesterday about a character played by a black actress.
One poster admitted that the movie character's death wasn't as upsetting to them as the book character because she was black.
It's bubbling to the surface.
RZM
(8,556 posts)It was bound to happen eventually 
CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)Those racist tweets track perfectly to the point Rude is making about Trayvon: "Niggerize" the victim so that people don't much care that Zimmerman murdered him.
All they have to do is tap into people who harbor that latent racist attitude and create more Zimmerman apologists.
RZM
(8,556 posts)Nobody actually lost their lives in the filming of 'The Hunger Games.' But Trayvon really did lose his. Racist movie commentary is nothing new. And with that said, I'd say this stuff is less about racism and more about rabid fanboys/fangirls upset that the movie wasn't exactly how they'd pictured the book. That kind of thing is pretty common.
CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)is VERY real.
It's precisely because they now physically SEE the character portrayed by a black person that alters - no, RUINS their fantasy, or allows them to say "oh, it doesn't matter that they're dead".
That is EXACTLY why the Zimmerman defenders are trying to 'niggerize' the perception of Trayvon. Because they can count on people to think, 'Oh well, he was black and maybe a budding criminal at that, so no big loss'. You don't see that parallel in the tweets about the movie character? It's plain as day to me.
Bottom line: If you think those moviegoers suspend their racist attitudes when they walk out of the theater, then you and I need to agree to disagree.
RZM
(8,556 posts)I guess I see the tweets as more of a racialized version of fanboy/fangirl complaint-fest. It's not exactly like they pictured the book, so therefore it's a let down. It does have a racial component, but it's not just about that. And we only saw a handful of tweets. The movie made $150 million over the weekend, so I assume these disappointed fans were very small part of the audience.
RZM
(8,556 posts)I also think that part of the reason some kids might not care as much about the death of the black characters in the film is also because I don't think the filmmakers did a particularly good job about making the audience care about them. Don't read further if you don't want spoilers.
If you've already seen the movie, this isn't news, but there are two black 'tributes' in the film. Both die during the games. One is an older boy who gets almost no screen time - only one very short scene. He dies off screen too. The filmmakers made no attempt to get the audience invested in the character, so we don't care when he dies.
The character I believe the tweets referred to is a younger girl who saves the main character's life. They become friends and allies in the games. This character eventually dies right in front of the protagonist. I have never read the books and I can honestly say I didn't really care much when this character died either. I mean I guess I did a little, but again I don't think the filmmakers did quite enough to establish the bond between her and the protagonist. My GF has read the books and we saw the movie together. As we were walking out, I asked how true to the book the movie was. She said they left a lot of stuff out (which is of course normal). But she specifically mentioned the bonding between these two characters. Apparently the book spends a lot more time establishing this. So that could be part of it too. People who love the books might have been mad that this was left out and thus disappointed that the movie didn't spend as much time making us care about this character.
For the record, I was kind of hoping the protagonist would have to kill her. That's kind of cruel, but only one kid can survive. So eventually you're going to have to turn on your allies. I thought that could have been a very powerful moment, but it is a story aimed at teens, so it can't be too dark. To be fair, I also wanted her to have to kill her love interest too. LOL. I guess I'm cruel like that.
I'm not disputing the racial angle. The tweets put it front and center and there's no denying it. I'm just saying I think there's more going on here too. If these fans weren't complaining about race, they would probably be complaining about something else in the film that they didn't like.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Trivializing a valid reciprocity.
It too was bound to happen eventually...
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)with these fucking pigs.
me b zola
(19,053 posts)A rw in-law said something to the effect of, 'well, they shouldn't have been living in a place that is prone to hurricanes'. Of course i responded by asking about what all the white people should do that live where there are tornados and earthquakes.
I realized then that we are in deep doo-doo as a people, when a sizable portion of our population have lost (if they ever had) the ability to empathize with others, to not give a damn when tragedy strikes.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)After Katrina, and I went through it from start to finish. I have about as much respect for a person who would make such a stupid statement as I do for dog poop I rinse off of my shoes.
You have no idea what tongue lashings we endured for daring to live in a place where tragedy struck, and it was a disgrace. Here we are, enduring a tragedy, and people chastise us for living here, and surviving it. It just goes to show that there is no cruelty that you can endure that someone else won't blame you for enduring it.
tblue37
(65,377 posts)have tornadoes, droughts, and torrential thunderstorms. In California, they have earthquakes. In Texas, Florida, and the Southeastern coast, they have hurricanes. In the notheast, they have blizzards. In many places, they have floods.
Next time someone gives you crap about that sort of thing, just ask them where people are supposed to live if they are supposed to avoid living in places where they might face dangerous natural forces.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)directed at people they didn't know.
rurallib
(62,416 posts)and says it in the language of real people.
One of his best. Thank you for posting.
Gregorian
(23,867 posts)My observation is that this whole process is a means of cover for those who should be behind bars. The Cheney's, Bush's, Rumsfeld's, etc.
The drug war is also how it's accomplished. With Fox as a supportive mouthpiece this Wizard of Oz curtain is held closed. We're getting close to seeing just who the criminals are. Sure it's those who pull the trigger. But there is an entire class of bankers and others who profit from war who are making big money off of this kind of thing.
The key is that we keep looking at the pinata. Keep focused on something else. It's a complicated slight of hand.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Good point. It's always:
Oooh, look at this dangerous man!
How outrageous is that?
What a disgusting human being!
Meanwhile, what's truly dangerous, outrageous and disgusting is given a pass! And we stand by and watch it!
As Bill Hicks said:
The world is like a ride at an amusement park, and when you choose to go on it, you think it's real, because that's how powerful our minds are. And the ride goes up and down and round and round and it has thrills and chills and it's very brightly colored and it's very loud. And it's fun, for a while.
Some people have been on the ride for a long time, and they begin to question: 'Is this real? Or is this just a ride?' And other people have remembered, and they come back to us and they say 'Hey! Don't worry, don't be afraid - ever - because... this is just a ride.' And we kill those people.
'Shut him up! We have a lot invested in this ride! Shut him up! Look at my furrows of worry; look at my big bank account, and my family. This has to be real.'
It's just a ride. But we always kill those good guys who try and tell us that - ever notice that? - and we let the demons run amok. But it doesn't matter, because... it's just a ride, and we can change it any time we want. It's only a choice. No effort. No worry. No job. No savings and money. Just a choice, right now, between fear and love. The eyes of fear want you to put bigger locks on your door, buy guns, close yourself off. The eyes of love, instead, see all of us as one.
Here's what we can do to change the world, right now, into a better ride. Take all that money we spend on weapons and defense each year and, instead, spend it feeding, clothing and educating the poor of the world, which it would do many times over - not one human being excluded - and we can explore space together, both inner and outer, forever. In peace.
lib_wit_it
(2,222 posts)"Take all that money we spend on weapons and defense each year and, instead, spend it feeding, clothing and educating the poor of the world, which it would do many times over - not one human being excluded - and we can explore space together, both inner and outer, forever. In peace."
I've been asking for decades why this is not being done and people just call me crazy. Well, that makes me crazy.
lib_wit_it
(2,222 posts)
bullwinkle428
(20,629 posts)K&R.
aptal
(304 posts)k&r
MarianJack
(10,237 posts)Sometimes the use of an offensive term to illustrate the ugliness is needed.
I'm an almost 57 year old man with an African American son who will turn 12 this coming Saturday. What happened to this young man just TERRIFIES my wife and I. We have cautioned our son on exactly how to act if he is ever confronted by law enforcement, a large part of the advice is to cooperate fully and say NOTHING until mom and I get there with the lawyer.
Unfortunately, this advice does nothing when the other individual is an armed racist with a Rambo complex who is out hunting.
I haven't been in a fistfight or any other physical altercation since I was in 9th grade, but if someone harmed my son because of his black skin I would be hard pressed to not do something very violent. What would stop me is the fact of my son's very gentle nature is the antithesis of violence.
zimmerman needs to go to jail for a very long time.
PEACE!
Leftist Agitator
(2,759 posts)If (and when) Zimmerman is convicted by a jury of his peers, he deserves to be executed for committing this heinous hate crime.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)The death penalty ineffective in deterring crime and immoral. Kept the bastard alive as a cautionary tale. 
TahitiNut
(71,611 posts)Even so, I agree that the death 'penalty' is useless, ineffective, and debases every one of us.
Bladian
(475 posts)
Chemisse
(30,813 posts)A civilized, decent community does not let emotions rule to the point of murder, in any form.
MarianJack
(10,237 posts)...but as detestable an excuse for a human bing that zimmerman is, I believe that if you oppose the death penalty, than you oppose the death penalty.
I'm not going to say that I'm against th death penalty but "it's ok for..."
That would make me feel like a republican, or at least like their likely nominee this year who is willing to change his "beliefs" to fit the audience.
I also like the idea of zimmerman coming to th end of his sentence needing to wipe his as with astroturf for the rest of his life.
PEACE! 
(to you. Piss on zimmerman!)
marasinghe
(1,253 posts)you would even need to school your son, on how to act if confronted by cops.
their function -- for which they are paid with your tax money, among other things -- is to engender confidence & security within law-abiding society, so they may go about their lives without fear & apprehension. instead, a whole segment of the population, your son included, is compelled to walk on eggshells, like potential prey amidst predators in the jungle, in the vicinity of these fascist scum, to avoid provoking unwarranted physical violence being visited on themselves by the very guardians of the law. this is as bad as living in a banana republic, where perceived affronts to the pigs in power, are met with rampant violence.
i've witnessed this up close & personal, on several occasions, in New York City -- that bastion of tolerance -- where my Caribbean friends have been hassled & intimidated in my presence; and who knows what the outcome may have been, if no witness was around.
MarianJack
(10,237 posts)The sad thing is, however, that we do live in a racist society. My son is at an age where he will be out with a few of his buddies, acting like all preteen boys do, and some will look at the other boys and sya "boys will be boys" and then look at my black son and call him a racial slur.
Of course, according to zimmerman's defenders, the slurs are terms of affedtion.
Of course, while I've never shot someone while I was out human hunting, I don't think I'd be saying a term of affection while firing bullets into their body.
Among the most unfortunate aspects of having an African American President is that the racists have taken license to be even more open about their hatred and ugliness.
Again, zimmermen needs to go to jail for a very long time.
PEACE!
The Wizard
(12,545 posts)is the greatest danger to democracy.
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty
to purchase a little Temporary Safety,
deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
(Ben F.)
zeemike
(18,998 posts)I found it real. He was using the n word to put down people who say African American or black when they think and feel nigger and who's actions show it.
Sometimes you need to use strong language to express important things....and he did just that....
K&R.
Life Long Dem
(8,582 posts)He did fight with Zimmerman.
SoCalDem
(103,856 posts)
caraher
(6,278 posts)I don't care whether he was an Eagle Scout or had a juvenile record a mile long, Trayvon had every right to walk down the street unmolested when all he was doing was bringing home an iced tea and bag of Skittle and chatting on the phone. Even if Zimmerman magically knew Trayvon to be a sometimes-violent juvenile (probability: effectively zero) he had no right to get in the boy's face (against the orders of the the 911 operator). And even if Trayvon did punch Zimmerman - even if he struck the first blow! - he had every right under Florida law to "stand his ground" and defend himself against the harassment of a possibly racist vigilante.
RockWarrior
(10 posts)We know very little FACTS about this incident but how are we to believe that Martin was only getting skittles and iced tea? Everyone is taking that as fact and then adding all these other details such Zimmerman chased him. We don't know that. "Unmolested"? We do not know if Zimmerman approached Martin. If he did confront Martin then I agree he should not have. What happened in the confrontation? Could Martin have walked away? Did Martin punch Zimmerman and continue to slam his head into the ground? If Martin did that then that is not self defense on his part either. No Martin did not have a "right" to punch Zimmerman if all Zimmerman did was follow him, walk away and go home and use your phone to call police. Now if Zimmerman was threatening him then that is a different story.
Also there were no orders given by the 911 operator nor do they have the authority to give orders. The dispatchers comment was "you don't need to do that". Yes common sense would dictate not to create a confrontation but I believe Zimmerman lived on the property as well so he too he a legal right to be there. Again I was not there and do not know what happened but if Zimmerman was only following Martin then that changes things. I hope there is someone that did see what really happened.
Everyday the details of this story change in the media. I do not believe it is fair to pass judgement on anyone in this incident until the details are release.
cliffordu
(30,994 posts)Zimmerman got out of his van to confront Martin against the advice of the Police dispatcher.
Zimmerman shot the kid to death.
MR. Martin had a cell phone, skittles and an iced tea on him at the time of his death.
##########
If Mr. Martin felt he was being threatened and had a pistol and killed Zimmerman this would be a very different story, would it not?
I cannot believe a 17 year old kid would attack a fat man with a pistol when armed with candy and tea.
You can parse it any way you want to.
Welcome to DU, by the way, enjoy your stay!!
Aerows
(39,961 posts)to pass this judgment: If Zimmerman would have stayed in his vehicle, he would not have killed Trayvon and ruined his own life in the process.
Morale of the story: Don't pursue people in a bid for supposed vigilante justice pretending you are a Law Enforcement Officer when you have neither the training, nor the authority to act as one.
Zimmerman has ruined his own life, by his own hand, and ended the life of another. This whole situation is tragic, and it is tragic for everyone involved, but let's not pretend that there wasn't a tremendous lack of judgment on the part of Zimmerman. Anyone that has ever attended CCW classes knows you don't follow people against the advice of the police.
I'd honestly like to hear from some others that know about CCW training. Don't they tell you not to pursue people, and that your right to defense of your life ends when you start chasing people down and acting like a vigilante? He wanted to be a hero. He should have kept his behind in his vehicle until Law Enforcement arrived. He killed a man. He has ruined his own future and the future of the people his act touched via the death of Trayvon Martin.
It's a horrible situation.
Life Long Dem
(8,582 posts)But that's not what happened and here we are. Now we need to let a jury decide the outcome, if they can get this to trial. But the SYG law is making this all into the big mess it is. If not for SYG, Zimmerman would be sitting in jail.
Iris
(15,657 posts)I love a succinct and sensible post!
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)What are you implying with this?
Iris
(15,657 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)No evidence of that, of course, but he was doubtlessly "up to no good" because he dared to be on the street at night wearing a hoodie.
As I replied up thread to someone who was talking about right wing relatives blaming people for Katrina, it really doesn't matter to many of them. If you suffer misfortune, you deserved it in some way, and it's your fault.
That's the same situation here. For some reason, it's Trayvon's fault that he got killed. I don't understand it, and never will. They blame the victim like it is some totem that will protect them against ever being a victim.
Iris
(15,657 posts)girlfriends on their cell phones right before getting "up to no good."
Aerows
(39,961 posts)He's murdered, and doubtlessly deserved to be just because it happened to him.
This kind of conclusion seems so lacking in reason to me, I don't know what to say.
Iris
(15,657 posts)you are guilty until proven innocent (and therefore, deserving to live)
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)clearly it's standard practice for all these low post count sockpuppets as they try to distort the issue
They are popping up in every thread...Go see how similar their talking points all are (or maybe it's one person with like 10 new accounts)
Iris
(15,657 posts)"He grew since then. He was 6'3" and 140 pounds"
which just makes me even more pissed off at this bullshit. I can't even IMAGINE how skinny that must be.
Iris
(15,657 posts)in favor of Zimmerman. With no real investigation or trial or collection of evidence. That's the problem.
Despite all that, it sickens me that people think Zimmerman's actions are ok. That KILLING someone under circumstances like this is ok. Trayvon's cousins were sitting at home waiting for their Skittles. THIS is what they will live with all of their lives. This death will resonate for a long, long time certainly for them and now for all of this. No good can come from violence.
frylock
(34,825 posts)why don't you read up a little on what is known and then come back and join the conversation, mkay?
lib_wit_it
(2,222 posts)
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)he had every right to defend himself after zimmerman profiled, followed, and confronted him.
Iris
(15,657 posts)That sums it up perfectly.
NOLALady
(4,003 posts)only a thug would fight to defend himself from a stalker?
cliffordu
(30,994 posts)too bad he brought Skittles to a gunfight.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)that was likely the right thing to do? At a distance of less than ten feet when confronted by a gunman you believe likely to shoot you, the largest odds of survival lie in charging the gunman. It's shocking and most people will not recover fast enough to even get a shot off, let alone an accurate one. At the same time you're closing the distance and increasing the likelihood that you can disarm them or divert the gun until help arrives. When you're close enough, push their arm outward and begin shouting "fire" (More people respond to "fire!" than "help!" or "rape!" In any crisis where emergency-help is needed, yell "fire!" People run towards fires.)
You're most likely to be killed standing-still and running away is only marginally safer, like barely at-all. No, pretty much your only chance of survival lies in attacking your assailant if you believe their intentions are to shoot you rather than defensive-intentions.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)he charged the person who pulled the gun on him and knocked the gun away basically with surprise and force.
2ndAmForComputers
(3,527 posts)Life Long Dem
(8,582 posts)
mzmolly
(50,993 posts)I guess that's the new definition of fight?
http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/crime/2012/03/19/bts-florida-martin-teen-shooting-witnesses.wkmg#/video/crime/2012/03/19/bts-florida-martin-teen-shooting-witnesses.wkmg
Life Long Dem
(8,582 posts)mzmolly
(50,993 posts)me?
Life Long Dem
(8,582 posts)mzmolly
(50,993 posts)not.
Do you think it's reasonable to assume that Trayvon Martin was the aggressor, given the witness testimony I noted above?
Life long Dem huh? What is your favorite Democratic achievement?
Life Long Dem
(8,582 posts)And an angry Zimmerman shot Trayvon in the back.
I have a list of my favorite Democratic achievements. There all good.
1. Women’s Suffrage Movement
2. Securities Exchange Act of 1934
3. Social Security Act
4. Unemployment Compensation
5. Rural Electrification Act
6. Federal Home Loan Program
7. 40 hour work week
8. Minimum Wage
9. Over Time
10. GI Bill
11. School Lunch
12. Marshal Plan
13. NATO
14. Peace Corps
15. First manned moon mission
16. Civil Rights Act
17. Medicare
18. Medicaid
19. Voting Rights Act
20. Head Start
21. Guaranteed Student Loan Program
22. Family & Medical Leave Act
23. The Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act
mzmolly
(50,993 posts)on?
Nice list.
Life Long Dem
(8,582 posts)mzmolly
(50,993 posts)She did say that neighbors said there was an argument and punches thrown. Yet she disputes this with her testimony. Neighbors may have heard this story from Zimmerman, and assumed that he was defending himself and being truthful?
The witness went on to say that she heard Zimmerman has temper, that he is unable to control.
I'll await the witnesses who supposedly saw a fight before assuming that there was an actual scuffle.
Regardless, it's pretty difficult to assume that Zimmerman was defending himself when he stalked the young victim after police requested that he stop pursuit.
Life Long Dem
(8,582 posts)even when her kitchen window was open. And says since she didn't hear the fight that it was three to four houses away where the other witnesses describe the fight.
mzmolly
(50,993 posts)I continue to await proof that anyone saw a supposed fight.
IMO, Trayvon Martin's repeated screams for help demonstrate that there was not a fight on the night in question, but a cold blooded murder.
Feel free to listen to his desperate pleas, yourself.
lib_wit_it
(2,222 posts)mzmolly
(50,993 posts)sur-prise!
Life Long Dem
(8,582 posts)Still a mighty impressive list of achievements.
TahitiNut
(71,611 posts)
marmar
(77,081 posts)I'ze gon' be good from now on.
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)..
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)just imagine yourself being in that person's shoes... is that so fucking hard. If it is, you may be a sociopath as well as a bigot.
Response to kpete (Original post)
Post removed
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)I mean, REALLY! A 17 yr old with braces? And wanting to have no limits? Or do you mean referring to himself as "NIGGA"? I bet you find it sad that my sisters and I refer to us collectively as "the bitches".
RockWarrior
(10 posts)Yes I was referring to his NO_LIMIT name. Which is it? Is it offensive or not? You have groups that want to ban the word and now you are telling me it should be okay to say.
So if I walk up to an African American and call him "nigga" should I expect to get punched in the face or not? I am so tired of hearing it go both ways.
Hugabear
(10,340 posts)So we're going to dredge up right-wing race arguments now?
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)You're mad that they say it to each other, but you can't call them that without repercussions? That makes you mad, that you can't call people n*ggers?
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)A person can refer to themselves as a term that would be offensive if someone else were to call them that.
My sisters and I call each other "the bitches". YOU however cannot call us that.
Same thing here.
You seriously don't understand this? The difference between self labeling and mocking oneself vs insulting someone else. You don't understand that? Seriously?
Skittles
(153,162 posts)when the old gal cafe cashier calls me HONEY I think nothing of it - but if my boss called me honey I'd be OUTRAGED
RockWarrior
(10 posts)Sorry but yes I feel this is wrong. Apparently I am not the one who is angry. I am not the one taking a stance and posturing. I just wish people would not be hypocritical. No, I do not think it is right for a culture to refer to themselves with a term that they believe is derogatory. Forgive give me for having a different view on we should treat ourselves and others...
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)It is not about what people call themselves, it is about what people call each other.
It is that simple.
Same with (pick any group). Intent matters.
RockWarrior
(10 posts)The way blacks speak to each other can hardly be portrayed as "playful". And yes I do work closely with low income families and have expressed this opinion openly. Most of the time I am told to mind my own "fucking" business. So yes it does sadden me to see people act this way.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)listen to people when they tell you this. Even rudely say they do.
What saddens me more is a 17 yr old being stalked and shot because he was a "f*ing c*n".
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Marines often refer to themselves as 'jarheads.' However, non-marines are opening themselves up to a lot of aggresion should they themselves use that term to a marine's face.
(Source: 'Shall Never See So Much' by Gerald Gillis)
You see, context in language, as in all things, is relevant. Denying that same relevance simply by stating "."I feel this is wrong", is, in and of itself, as irrelevant as is the person who denies daylight because his lights were turned off.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I'm going to assume you are hostile. Why wouldn't I?
If I walked up to you in public, you don't know me, and I called you an asshole, would you believe I had benevolent intentions? I doubt that you would.
My first reaction would be, why are you interacting with me in a hostile manner, and second, how can I get away from you to protect myself from harm.
In both of those instances, did you notice something? I'm reacting to YOUR actions. YOU started the altercation, not me.
Oh, I see. You can call me whatever you want, because you have great intentions despite being hostile towards me. And I know this because I'm a mind reader and should read your intentions. Because you are benevolent.
I should submit to your wisdom of being benevolent, even though you are hostile, because I should trust you, and your good intent.
Has anyone ever heard this line before?
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)by talking about how this child was senselessly killed.
just as well that your hidden post has stopped you from further polluting this thread.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)Hugabear
(10,340 posts)Nowadays it seems like it's a lot more difficult to get rid of trolls and malcontents
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)Only 1 alert but there was a fair bit of discussion.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)
The Midway Rebel
(2,191 posts)Really? Tell us more, maybe we should be tired of it too. Then again you may discover yourself to bigot.
RockWarrior
(10 posts)I am not nor have ever been a "bigot". I was raised to NOT look at the color of a persons skin which is why I am tired of the media portraying issues based on race. I am not saying that people are not racist, I am saying the media feeds that. See my other post. In my obviously useless opinion I believe that bringing race to the front only makes it worse.
Hugabear
(10,340 posts)And that people should just stop making race an issue?
Kind of hard to do when there are still plenty of racist idiots out there.
The Midway Rebel
(2,191 posts)And I believe that you believe that about yourself. Yet you posted this comment:
"So if I walk up to an African American and call him "nigga" should I expect to get punched in the face or not? I am so tired of hearing it go both ways."
So you feel oppressed because you cannot call black folks "nigga" without consequence. At a minimum you are emotionally hung up on this issue. Combine that with the fact that you believe the media is to blame for bringing race to the fore of this issue rather than the obvious racist actions and behaviors of the Stanford PD and I get the sense that your bigotry is buried so deep in your consciousness that you do not recognize it.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)"She's a dyke, what? She likes women. She says so herself. That makes her a man-hating dyke that ..."
"He's a coon. He's black and admits he's black, so we all know what he's up to - he's a thug."
They never see it. And forgive me for using pejoratives, but I did so as examples.
ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)a hardship that they can't call someone the N word has a problem.
If you don't see the difference in black people using the word amongst themselves and a white person calling them the N word then you really, really don't get it.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)because it makes racists uncomfortable to know that the majority of americans find their views abhorrent?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)For people to discuss their racism. Because they have discovered it is unwelcome in society outside of their little bubble.
That sums it up in a nutshell.
mzmolly
(50,993 posts)issue" too.
Sorry, race apologists, but if that had been a white child, especially the white child of, say, a Tea Party member, there'd have been a fucking riot. Or, more likely, it just wouldn't have happened.
Can you even provide an example of this ever happening?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Then your knowledge of the history of race relations, particularly in the South, is sadly lacking.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)Last edited Tue Mar 27, 2012, 07:19 PM - Edit history (1)
and as i mentioned to a freeper yesterday, until fairly recently in american history, white people were routinely acquitted of killing black people.
Solomon
(12,310 posts)me boil over. We used to at least get a mock trial with a racist jury. Now we can't even get a fucking arrest. It's utterly absurd. Every hour that Zimmerman stays outthere, the less and less my worth becomes.
I'm not worth an arrest. Any man that shoots and kills an unarmed man on public property should be held to answer for it. How many times have cops said "tell it to the judge.". But not in this case. Seems to me that cops are trained in preserving the scene and evidence, so much so that it is unnatural for them to have acted in the manner they did. The only reason to do that would be to cover up something.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Fuck the trolls who don't think we need to have a conversation about racism in this country, who think race isn't part of this injustice, who think we need to be told to be silent.
RockWarrior
(10 posts)I am tired about hearing this incident is about race. Maybe it was maybe it wasn't but we have no idea until it is known what Zimmerman actually said on the 911 call (the portion that was covered over). I just get peeved when I see a thread using the "N" word when Mr. Martin called himself the NO_LIMIT_NIGGA.
Race issues and violence go both ways yet incidents like the one linked rarely see media attention.
http://www.kctv5.com/story/17048649/teens-set-13-year-old-student-on-fire
Sorry but I would just rather see outrage to violence and leave race out of it.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)That incident is about race. Giving a damn about that incident does not require us to not give a damn this case. Furthermore, this case involves police misconduct and a shaky law at best. Like it or not, that word is part of our culture and the problem is not about its use, but about it's malicious use. Your concern is noted, but don't try and tell use that we need to "leave race out of it."
I'm outraged about violence, why don't you go here and ask why we all need to walk around with guns all of the time, otherwise give it a rest because the truth is that if George Zimmerman doesn't have a gun Trayvon Martin is likely still very much alive. Oh wait, maybe Trayvon Martin should have had a gun so he can stand his ground too. Think he'd get off if he popped a few in George Zimmerman?
NOLALady
(4,003 posts)among other things. Deal with it.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I'll be sure to note your "outrage at the violence" and leave sexual orientation out of it, because it's not like people have ever been harassed or threatened due to race or sexual orientation. No, I won't be offended at all about any of it. I'll just lament that people are violent and leave it at that, and not point out that it is an underlying social problem.
God forbid we address underlying social problems. When someone calls me a dyke on the street because I'm holding my girlfriend's hand, I should just accept it because I acknowledge that, yes, I am a lesbian.
Is that your argument, really?
Hugabear
(10,340 posts)Zimmerman had a history of calling to report suspicious people in his neighborhood, and guess what - he always made sure to mention the person was black.
But I'm sure that there's nothing racist about that...
Zimmerman made 46 calls to police over 8 years for a variety of reasons including an open garage door, stray dogs and suspicious. I did not see any claim that it was on black people.
Yes I am saying that when everything has to be made about race, sexual orientation, age or whatever all you do is make that the issue. Stop making issues be the victim, people are the victims. In my obviously useless opinion all that does is make things worse. I don't believe people need to be looked as as black, white, green, yellow, gay or straight. Look at people as people and that is how they will be seen. That is how I was raised and that is how I view people. Too bad you believe I am wrong because it worked well.
yardwork
(61,622 posts)Zimmerman is the one who made this about race. We're just picking up the pieces.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Okay. Fine.
Stop making victims be responsible for their murders and their assaults because you think there is some magic that can make people not be victims of crime.
Why on earth do people make the people who are victims of tragedy, crime or violence to be the guilty party? A hurricane swept in. Right wingers jumped to make the people drowned or homeless guilty for even living there.
You are making Trayvon guilty for some unknown reason. Do you think it will keep you safe from something horrible ever befalling you or your family? I hope that it does, because I don't ill-wish, but bad things befall people - black, white, gay, straight, Christian, Jew, all of us. It doesn't mean we point fingers at each other and blame for our predicament. It means we are human beings, and if we are sincere, we come together and do the right thing. We HELP one another. We ALL live together in society, society is predicated on all of us working together.
I don't want a violent society, I want a sane one. We are all in this together.
Trying to construct a box that makes people likely to be victims of crime or tragedy does one thing - it constructs a hollow box that allows you to live in relief that as long as YOU are never a victim of tragedy, you are more worthy than people that endure it. That is as hollow of a box as it gets.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)i don't want you pretend my existence doesn't matter. it does matter...it has made me who i am today. what i want is not to have negative repercussions visited upon me because of who i am. i don't want to face discrimination, i don't want to followed, i don't want to be shot, or murdered: because i a black woman.
and do i not believe for one second that zimmerman targeted Martin for any reason other than the fact the he was a young, black male.
Mariana
(14,857 posts)I guess you forgot that part.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)and said something like "these people always get a way with it." what "people?' people who wear hoodies and carry skittles and arizona iced tea? it has everything to do with Martin's race...it was a hate crime, plan and simple.
yardwork
(61,622 posts)It doesn't matter what word George Zimmerman said, what matters is what he did, and that's clearly documented on the 911 tapes I heard.
You can spin this any way you want but this white girl isn't buying what you're selling.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)1. Again. I was going to call myself uppityb* here but decided to go with a more gender neutral name. My sisters and I call each other b*es but YOU can not call me a b*. And if some man stalks me, mutters "f*ing b*es", then that is about sexism. Rather like Zimmerman muttering "f*ing c*ns".
Let me use small words. We can use terms to describe ourselves that others can not use to describe us. The intent is different and matters.
2. Regarding your linked story. "Police are reportedly investigating whether this was a hate crime". People are investigating this vs police didn't give a shit about investigating until media and public attention has forced them to. Can you see the difference?
Do you think Zimmerman would have followed a white boy, dressed in a sweater vest, called 911, muttered "f*ing crackers", etc? It is about race as well as about violence.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)We aren't in a post racial America yet.
Just because you aren't convinced doesn't mean race wasn't a factor.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)There is a difference between wishing it wasn't and whether or not it is.
I know you know this, and that RockWarrior now has a thread hidden and can't reply, but have been thinking about the difference between desire and reality.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I live in the South. I've lived here all of my life. I've heard people attempt to explain away that "coon" is not in use here, but that is absolutely incorrect. Everyone in the South knows that "coon" is a pejorative for black people. I've heard people try to relate it to "coon ass", which is entirely different and a term for cajuns which many proudly claim to be. There is no relation to the two terms, and yes, the term is still used here in the South.
This rush to defend Zimmerman and cover up for what can only be described as dangerous vigilante behavior is sickening to me, and every thinking person in the USA. I support people's rights to own handguns to protect themselves; this wasn't self defense by a long shot, and stopped being self defense the second Zimmerman got out of the car.
Let's be clear here - you have a right to defend your life with lethal force, provided you are in a situation that you didn't provoke in the first place. When you not only provoke the confrontation, and you then escalate it by chasing someone that is unarmed, that's not self-defense. That's murder, pure and simple. If he would have just kept his ass in his vehicle, he wouldn't have ended Trayvon's life and ruined his own.
yardwork
(61,622 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Rush Limbaugh defending Zimmerman, Hannity and all the other reich wing haters taking his side and go see freakrepublic,
100% justifying the murder of Trayvon.
AA people and Latinos needs to realize that the republicans hate them, period. They hate their children as well. After Zimmerman murdered Trayvon the right wing republican set about killing his reputation and turning him into a street thug.
In their minds all black males are thugs worthy to be murdered for walking down the street in their neighborhood!
Theses evil bastards hate the president for this reason alone. He walks and lives in the place reserved for the most powerful white man of all, the president of the united states of America! This is why right wing militias have exploded in numbers since Obama was elected.
This is why the gun lobby is so powerful and the NRA which is an arm of the republican party is getting Stand your Ground laws passed in every state. Stand your Ground laws are nothing more than a minority hunting permit. Its open season on black kids with hoodies in Florida and everywhere else these laws exist.
Blue Owl
(50,383 posts)enter The Rude One
WillyT
(72,631 posts)
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)I can't believe that the governor or the attorney general in Florida haven't done anything about this yet.
It's just unbelievable.
caraher
(6,278 posts)There are racists out there who don't gun people down. But there is racism at work when a youth dies and the police can't be bothered to do anything other than send the shooter on his way.
Yes, Zimmerman should not be tried and convicted in the court of public opinion. He should be tried in a court of law. It takes a willful act of premeditated ignorance not to realize that the race of the victim stood in the way of this happening, thanks to the actions of the Sanford law enforcement authorities. Had they acted properly, we would not be having this conversation.
spanone
(135,838 posts)r
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Last edited Tue Mar 27, 2012, 08:35 PM - Edit history (1)
I am sorry to report that I have a rather racist father. He believes that every time a person is a victim of a crime, they are at fault. For some reason, a mechanism clicks in their brain that as long as you are the victim of crime (unless you are him, exclusively) it is YOUR fault.
I don't understand it. I never will. It sucks and probably if I was laying dead in the street as his daughter, he might have a different perspective, but I doubt it. He's a "Persecution complex" type. My sister is an Evangelical Christian and she also has a "persecution complex". That means, if they aren't being worshiped, their beliefs deified, and their credentials noted, they are being "persecuted".
I still don't understand it, and I am thankful I was born gay so that I don't have to understand how fruitcakes like them think themselves so much more worthy than everyone else in this world.
And if I could choose to not be a lesbian, I probably would, and I'd probably have join their horde. But I didn't, and I am the person I am. I think in this instance, God knew best for me, and made me a lesbian so I wouldn't be a racist, unquestioning idiot.
Iris
(15,657 posts)I love your post.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I believe in it.
Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts)To call one right wing is is to degrade one. These people have no credibility to degrade Trayvon or any one else and make it stick.
It might help if we call a horse a horse and not call these people conservative. A conservative can argue logically and now and then make a valid point. Can Rush Limbaugh do that? Glenn Beck? Sean Hannity.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)this brings up a question about the "Don't Re-nig in 2012" bumper sticker I see all the time down here. Do they:
A: Not understand what it means?
B: Understand it, but think they have a code only some people can understand?
C: "I don't care what you think. Get your ass back to yankee land"
I think it is probably a pretty even spread.
BlueIris
(29,135 posts)
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)BootinUp
(47,154 posts)
jimbo92107
(18 posts)We remove words like "nigger" from normal discourse because from hard experience we have found that their use degrades the civility of conversation. However, when circumstances become sufficiently dire, then the most efficient means of communicating an idea become mandatory. The shameful, irresponsible actions of police and right wing reactionaries in this affair have incited an atmosphere of racial tension so intense and hurtful that words like "niggering" are technically accurate and socially appropriate.
Dehumanizing a victim is how people immunize themselves from guilt. We all feel that murder is bad, but you can't murder a toaster, or a bicycle, or other non-human things, like a nigger. As long as we allow those protecting George Zimmerman to dehumanize Trayvon Martin, they will not feel guilt over the policies that allowed him to murder a 17-year old child.
Dehumanization requires vigorous maintenance (thus the incessant barrage of racist, right wing propaganda), but still it is vulnerable to the human tendency to not always be violent, desensitized dickheads. It is also vulnerable to graphic evidence (photos of war victims, murder victims, etc), and to a lesser extent to graphic language.
For that reason, do not expect a lot of right wingers to be swayed by words like "niggering." As the right has already shown, photographs of thug wannabes that look a little like Trayvon Martin are far more persuasive than the facts of this sordid hate crime murder. Images, not words. No amount of verbal invective, no soaring Shakespearean verse, no towering King speech has the impact of a well-composed, nasty photo. So go ahead and break out the racial slurs, but don't expect them to have much impact on the other side. At best they will give the vapors to tender souls that ruffle easily.
In the end, racial tensions and suspicion recede when people perceive that people of every ethnic group are capable of being pleasant and civil. George Zimmerman convinced himself otherwise; Florida Republicans put a gun in his hands and and gave him an excuse to use it. If this tragedy results in a spate of tit-for-tat violence, then for awhile things may get worse in Florida. However, eventually this too will pass. Frankly, maintaining racial tensions is a hassle. It takes energy and time which could be spent doing more pleasant things. The sooner people realize that, the sooner we can all relax.
The Wizard
(12,545 posts)
myrna minx
(22,772 posts) Zax2me
(2,515 posts)What news filter is this guy using?!
http://www.walb.com/story/17147174/shocking
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/teenagers-poured-gasoline-boy-walking-home-school-set-fire-cops-article-1.1033062
http://www.weeklycitizen.com/newsnow/x1644238992/Five-arrested-in-connection-to-brutal-murders-in-Gonzales?img=4
Hubert Flottz
(37,726 posts)Vigilante-ism approved by Jebby Bush...and Florida's GOP controlled government.
Another southern state taken over by folks in the GOP, which would like to get back to the old days of vigilante law in the sunny south.
Sometimes the Rude Pundit is really funny reading, but this isn't funny. This, at least, needed to be said, IMHO.
marshall gaines
(347 posts)great analysis of the vicious american wild west culture that is colored, no pun intended, by a virulent racism driven by racist right wing conservatives to keep us at each others throat while they raid the chicken house. Wake up to racism. Great job kpete
Beacool
(30,249 posts)Like his assertion that if this had been a white kid killed by a black man there would be riots. I sincerely doubt that that would be the case. How many riots have there been when that has happened in the past?
I do question though why there doesn't seem to be an equal outrage over the fact that unfortunately most violent crimes against AA youths are perpetrated by other AA youths. That in itself is a tragedy that is affecting the country.
