"In Finland the question of 'evaluating' teachers is irrelevant." Instead we ask....

[madfloridian]

"Instead we discuss how we can help them"

Found on Twitter

From what I have read that country trains and hires good teachers and then gives them the tools they need to teach the children.

More from Sahlberg:

More about schools in Finland

The aim (of Finnish education policy) is a coherent policy geared to educational equity and a high level of education among the population as a whole. The principle of lifelong learning entails that everyone has sufficient learning skills and opportunities to develop their knowledge and skills in different learning environments throughout their lifespan.

— Government of Finland, Ministry of Education

...."Strategies for Reform

Because of these trends, many people have turned to Finland for clues to educational transformation. As one analyst notes: Most visitors to Finland discover elegant school buildings filled with calm children and highly educated teachers. They also recognize the large autonomy that schools enjoy; little interference by the central education administration in schools’ everyday lives, systematic methods to address problems in the lives of students, and targeted professional help for those in need. (Sahlberg 2009, p. 7)

For the last few years our country has employed the policy of blaming teachers for everything while at the same time taking away resources and money from public schools.

[gratuitous]

1. Then how can you break their unions?

Gee whiz, Finland, you have a lot to learn about instituting a robber baron economy.

[madfloridian]

2. They can sure learn from our country. Every tenured teacher shown the door....

is an example of union-busting. It's going on all over the country.

[Rex]

3. LOL!

They are so primitive! They don't even know money means speech! HELP teachers? Why do that when you can destroy public schools and make billions off of textbooks, construction and software?

OH...he thinks American education is about teaching and helping teachers!

Silly man. What a bunch of socialists!

[Doctor_J]

4. They also haven't discovered the wonder of free-market for-profit health "care" either

that country is downright primitive - free, high-quality education and health care, practically no poverty. I have a feeling they don't understand how government works.

[Blue4u]

14. How could they possibly be so backward?

[MisterP]

15. and they have an infrastructure!

trains that go faster than 20 mph! how in hell have they not collapsed yet?

[Mnemosyne]

5. "We do the opposite of whatever the US would do." nt

[gulliver]

6. Republicans destroy things by reforming them and evaluating them.

The idea that we need to evaluate teachers in some special, politically harsh way is Republicanism at its finest. It presupposes that teachers need someone cracking the whip on them. You won't see Republicans asking whether cutting federal and state support for public education at all levels has a negative affect on education.

[dionysus]

18. i think there should be some kind of fair way to evaluate teachers.. what we have now isn't it. nt

[joeglow3]

32. EVERY profession needs to evaluate their employees

No one sets out to hire bad employees, just as no one sets out to hire employees that steal. As an auditor, let me tell you that if a company says "we don't scrutinize our employees because we only hire good people" their sample size just tripled because they are probably getting ripped off by some employees.

[yurbud]

76. what Republicans and corporate Democrats love, they deregulate and shower with money

what they hate, they regulate to death and starve of funds.

Or more simply, they love those who can give them lots of money now and high paying jobs when they leave office.

[Moostache]

7. Its too hard to enslave educated people...THAT is why we have what we currently do in the USA...

The GOP and their paymasters do not want educated people. Carlin was right...they want people just smart enough to push the buttons and just dumb enough to vote against their own interests because of another fairytale about "freedom".

I have said for years that public education should extend beyond high school to anyone capable of doing the work and earning a degree in the classroom. Education is much like health care (or free speech, freedom of assembly and the right to move about as one pleases within the borders of our home nation) - IT IS A RIGHT, NOT A PRIVILEGE, and increasingly in this day and age, it is becoming a national security issue. The Chinese are still graduating more engineers every year than we are educating in total at the university level.

At least in the 1950's, when Sputnik went up the government got its shit together long enough to create, fund and see NASA succeed beyond anyone's wildest dreams. Today, we are being beaten far worse than the Russians were beating us then...and the response is deafening in its silence...

[Mira]

8. Plus many recommendations-also

As I understand it Finnish teachers make more than doctors and lawyers in general. Only the mental creme de la creme gets educated to be a teacher. Once they have their certificate they are completely free to teach as they see fit.

[Hoppy]

9. Dumb Finns don't get that teachers are just in it for the money and summers off.

[joeglow3]

35. Probably, since they are paid great there

Instead of pissing money away on needless technology, they invest in the teachers. This leads to salaries that attract a LOT of interest. So much so that 80% of applicants to get into college for teaching are turned away. This leads to a great crop of teachers.

[longship]

10. Sisu!

No Child Left Behind = Blame the Teachers.

No tenure! All those teachers who have gone through the system and who have achieved tenure, many who have taught for decades, will be sacrificed. They will be replaced by low pay new graduates with no experience.

It is an insidious system we have constructed.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

11. ATTITUDE. K&R.

They look for the opportunity to help while we look for a problem to blame.

[madfloridian]

12. ....

[joeglow3]

33. Thank the attorneys

[tex-wyo-dem]

13. Ah Finland...

I used to work and live there. Aside from the best education system in the world, they also enjoyed:

Some of the best single-payer healthcare world, free education all the way through graduate school, a very generous retirement plan, mandatory six weeks vacation a year, and numerous other benefits too long to mention.

Do they pay high taxes? Sure. They also got a lot of return for their money. Unlike us to get just more wars, corporate payoffs cuts to the social safety net.

[madfloridian]

24. To get those good things, I would not mind higher taxes at all.

But here I'm afraid it would go toward benefiting the wealthy and corporations. That must have been a great experience for you.

[Common Sense Party]

52. But wil things remain the same when they are annexed by Russia?

With all Finland has going for it, it's surprising their population isn't 3 billion.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. From NPR and The New Republic

http://www.npr.org/2011/01/28/133301331/the-new-republic-the-u-s-could-learn-from-finland

While observing recess outside the Kallahti Comprehensive School on the eastern edge of Helsinki on a chilly day in April 2009, I asked Principal Timo Heikkinen if students go out when it's very cold. Heikkinen said they do. I then asked Heikkinen if they go out when it's very, very cold. Heikkinen smiled and said, "If minus 15 [Celsius] and windy, maybe not, but otherwise, yes. The children can't learn if they don't play. The children must play."

In comparison to the United States and many other industrialized nations, the Finns have implemented a radically different model of educational reform — based on a balanced curriculum and professionalization, not testing. Not only do Finnish educational authorities provide students with far more recess than their U.S. counterparts — 75 minutes a day in Finnish elementary schools versus an average of 27 minutes in the U.S. — but they also mandate lots of arts and crafts, more learning by doing, rigorous standards for teacher certification, higher teacher pay, and attractive working conditions. This is a far cry from the U.S. concentration on testing in reading and math since the enactment of No Child Left Behind in 2002, which has led school districts across the country, according to , to significantly narrow their curricula. And the Finns' efforts are paying off: In December, , an exam in reading, math, and science given every three years since 2000 to approximately 5,000 15-year-olds in nations around the world, revealed that, for the fourth consecutive time, Finnish students posted stellar scores. The United States, meanwhile, lagged in the middle of the pack

[madfloridian]

17. Thanks for that link. Now we are even testing kindergarteners to tears.

The reformers are steamrolling public education...they are totally out of control.

Both parties are letting them do it.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. Why waste money educating poor kids (or, any kids) when we can punish them?

Of course, if we did actually educate them we might risk this:

Whenever the people are well informed, they can be trusted with their own government; that whenever things get so far wrong as to attract their notice, they may be relied on to set them to rights.

 Thomas Jefferson  

[Enthusiast]

21. +1 a whole bunch!

[Enthusiast]

20. Thank you, madfloridian. K&R!

What a concept!

"How can we help them?"

Where is the profit in that?

[malaise]

22. Great post

I experienced the gap between Finnish education and the rest of us recently - it was a breath of fresh air.

[madfloridian]

23. Sounds great. I would love to have such an experience.

To see teachers respected again would be exciting to me.

[WinkyDink]

25. "Finland, Finland, Finland!" "I said 'ENGLAND'!"

[madfloridian]

26. Arne's goal here is student testing to grade teachers while giving away taxpayer money....

to private corporations who want to run the schools.

He has been so willing to do this that he has now lost control of the conversation and of the policy. Big corporations and billionaires have taken over the process. Teachers in many states are already stripped of the rights their unions negotiated for them.

So as Arne Duncan pushes more testing, his boss is saying too much testing is not good.

But since Arne's job is secure when no one else's is....he just keeps doing the bidding of the rich guys.

[marew]

27. Yup! Let's evaluate teachers and blame them....

for so many things out of their control.

Teachers see kids maybe 7 hours a day and then return home to their families and neighborhoods.
When kids are hungry, it is hard for them to learn. When kids are abused emotionally and/or physically, it is hard for them to learn. When kids come to school exhausted because of all the chaos in their family that went on all night, it is hard for them to learn. When kids do not feel safe in their neighborhoods, it is hard for them to learn. When kids live in abject poverty and their primary needs are not met, it is hard for them to learn.

I know from whence I speak. I am a retired school social worker. My fellow school social workers and I used to speculate about writing a book about what we've seen, about the abhorrent conditions so many children are forced to live in. We gave up the idea because we knew no one would believe us.

But let's scapegoat teachers. It is all their fault- not! The overwhelming number of teachers are amazing, caring, dedicated professionals but still the lack of success of so many 'high risk' children is 'all their fault!'

Reality check!

[madfloridian]

29. You should get that book written.

Social workers ranked like angels to me when I was teaching. Some of the home conditions were appalling, and they stepped right up into the fray.

[Teacheral]

28. The value of teacher unions

Doesn't anyone notice the difference in educational achievement between red states/blue states? Unions are mostly in blue states. Here in SC there are no teachers unions and education suffers.

[madfloridian]

30. FL teachers have unions but mostly ways to negotiate. They have now lost tenure.

And tenure was a union-negotiated right in conjunction with the state.

This administration's policy, though not stated as such, is actually union busting.

You can not let ed reformers move in and take over schools and fire and lay off teachers without calling it union busting. I am not going to let them do that.

I think I read that Finland's teachers are unionized. Yes, they are, found the link.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/education/union-role-strong-in-finland-education-s536tlj-134546558.html

[madfloridian]

31. BTW welcome to DU

[joeglow3]

34. In Finland, they don't NEED to evaluate teachers

It is tough as fucking shit to become a teacher, as it is selective as hell. Juxtapose that with the US, where it is MUCH easier to become a teacher. I agree we need to adopt the Finland model. What people may not realize that means is, cut all the bullshit expenses spent on needless technology, divert that money to teacher's salaries, and used that increased pay (and increased interest it will lead to in the profession) to make schools more selective:

http://theweek.com/article/index/249613/the-secret-of-finlands-stellar-schools

[msanthrope]

36. You've pointed out the flaw of calling for the Finnish system....our teachers aren't as educated

overall. Finland's teachers also tend to be of a higher class rank than ours.

Adoption of the Finnish system would mean that we would have to make teaching colleges far more select, and far more difficult.

[mike_c]

65. many fields already produce an abundance of highly educated terminal degree professionals...

...that are in many cases underemployed. I don't think there's really any shortage of well educated Americans. The trick is attracting them to the profession. Good salaries is part of that, but professional autonomy is even more tempting. I do agree that graduates of many state teaching colleges might not be competitive in that market, but with free education (in Finland) there isn't any real reason that good students can't achieve a graduate degree or two.

[jwirr]

37. By this time I thought we would have learned. This whole thing regarding schools in the US is about

the same thing as everything since raygun was elected. Privatize the schools. Either we fight back or we are going to have for profit (more expensive) schools and many students who are no longer in schools.

[madfloridian]

38. They figured out how to stop folks from fighting back....

Get politicians from both parties on board, and there is no real opposition. Pick an enemy....we always need an enemy, don't we? This time it's teachers.

Get the media on board using talking points provided by both parties...and there you have it.

[jwirr]

39. Exactly. This might be one of those places where we have to start taking schools back by paying

close attention to the election of school board members. And even that may not work.

[Demo_Chris]

40. How does he know they need help, what kind, where, how much, and who?

Do they just guess there in Finland?

In any case, what they do there -- with a system that's apparently working -- is irrelevant. We have a staggeringly expensive education system producing terrible results, so we need to make drastic changes.

[madfloridian]

43. See? The propaganda from Reagan on has worked.

I taught over 30 years. I remember really only 2 instances of teachers who should not have been teaching. I remember good teachers who worked their butts off.

Before they could perform a hostile takeover of public schools, the rich people wanting to own them first had to destroy their reputation.

See what a good job they have done?

[Demo_Chris]

45. I don't know what Reagan had to say about education and I don't care...

I care that our kids cannot read. Despite spending an astonishing amount of money on it our education system sucks. We cannot fix it until we implement across the board objective standards and testing.

[madfloridian]

48. Dang! There are so many objectives and so much testing there is no time to teach.

As to all that money you mention? Did you know that a lot of it is going to charter schools owned by private companies? Taxpayer money to enrich private coffers.

Did you know that vouchers allow that money to go to private religious schools, taking it from public schools? Varies by state.

The reformers are getting more and more money and resources from public schools while bitching that public schools are doing lousy work.

How stupid is that?

[Demo_Chris]

69. Define "a lot" please. What percentage? I suspect the percentage is low...

And in any case the problem existed long before the silly charter school 'solution.'

According to the National Center For Education Statistics the US spends almost 12 grand per kid per year. In other words, we currently invest $360,000 per 30 kid classroom on education. That's an amazing amount of money by any measure, but if the results were good few would complain. But the results are not good. It seems $360,000 doesn't go very far these days -- not when you hand it to a school at any rate.

http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=372

[Douglas Carpenter]

53. "across the board objective standards and testing" has ruined the education system in America

Last edited Mon Apr 7, 2014, 03:30 PM - Edit history (1)

especially post - "No Student Left Behind."

Here is a video from a teacher who resigning in large part because the wrecking of the American education system by implementing across the board objective standards and testing.

[madfloridian]

54. Wonderful video.

That sounds like the kind of teaching we used to be able to do. It breaks my heart to see good teachers being forced into the role of practicing and giving tests.

[Demo_Chris]

70. That's nice, but we NEED objective standards and testing...

We might need to adjust how the testing takes place and how the results are evaluated, but that's a separate issue.

[Douglas Carpenter]

73. Yes, we need some of that, of course. But it has gone so far in that direction to such an extreme it

has crippled the education system in America. Teaching children how to past test is what is considered by the respectable establishment as quality education in today's America. It needs to be reduced radically and immediately or else we will continue down that path that is already ruining education and stunting the growth of young minds as it drives talented teachers out of the profession.

[Demo_Chris]

74. Well, we do need students to be able to pass their tests...

This only becomes an issue if the tests are too difficult, the questions known in advance, or both. Saying, "The Algebra teacher spent the entire semester teaching nothing but Algebra," is hardly an indictment. That's her job, her only job, and if teaching to the test means that her students finally learned, then good.

Right now there seem to be two main groups opposed to standardized testing: teachers, who are evaluated based on the results, and students, who would just as soon have no tests at all. Teachers have a self interest in opposing these tests, and have advanced a laundry list of objections to every testing system ever proposed, but ultimately their objections are as hollow and easily ignored as the complaints of any student, and note that teachers who have no trouble dismissing testing objections when they are the ones giving the test, have an endless list of these objections when they are evaluated on the results--or sitting the exam themselves.

Ultimately it comes down to this: the American people are not satisfied with the results our public education system is delivering. They are not satisfied, and current teachers and administrators seemingly have no solutions other than for the public to close its eyes, stop looking and testing, and just hand over more money.

How much more? Just more. We spend $360,000 per classroom, enough to build a new building for each class every single year, and then hire the nation's top professionals and experts to teach the little cherubs, but it's still not enough. Ask school administrators or teachers and they always spit out the same tired answer: more money. Apparently we need to spend twenty grand per student, or perhaps thirty. Just, you know, more. At this point asking American education professionals for solutions is as silly as turning to Exxon and BP for advice about the environment, or allowing Lockheed Martin to control foreign relations. Just close your eyes and hand over your wallet.

Sadly, unless the question is how do we finish destroying public education, privatizing our schools is not the answer. I suspect most people know this, so they are giving public schools one final chance with standardized testing. Either teach kids, and prove it by passing these tests, or the public will find someone who will. The problem is not with the public, and it's not with corporations looking to step into the gap and cash in, the failure lies 100% at the feet of those who are currently failing to get the job done and who have nothing but excuses to offer.

[msanthrope]

46. I find that anecdote telling---

You say you taught for 30 years, but you only met 2 instances of teachers who should not be teaching.

You met no more than two mediocre or disaffected teachers? No more than 2 teachers who might have been inappropriate towards students, or had personal problems that affected their work in the classrooms? No more than two inept co-workers?

I have no doubt that you met many teachers who were good and worked their butts off. But I don't think teachers are so far removed from every other profession that you could have only met two individuals not suited to continue in 30 years. Hell--I'm a lawyer and I wish my profession were like that!

[joeglow3]

67. Amazing how teachers buck the trend of every other profession

I have worked in multiple fields, for multiple employers and would say 1 in 20, at least, we're not cutting the mustard. Look at the number of doctors, lawyers, accountants, dentists, etc who lose their state certifications compared to teachers. Sorry, but I don't believe, from a statistical standpoint, that teaching is the rare profession that manages to attract nothing but top talent.

[Auntie Bush]

41. When are we going to learn?

In the meantime...Politicians and rich people run our schools...not professionally trained teachers. Public school funds going to charter schools and they can accept or reject anyone they want, and public schools have to accept EVERYONE...no matter what their needs. I don't think charter schools have to follow alll the rules of the public school.

[madfloridian]

44. Good points.

The best point you made is that now our schools are being run by politicians. Not educators.

They don't even bother to consult with educators or teachers, only with the education reform groups.

[oldhippie]

42. You don't need evaluations or standards .....

.... when "free" has an adequacy all it's own. At least that's how some folks think.

[sabrina 1]

47. And we see the results of our policies over the decades. An ignorant population trained NOT TO THINK

but to follow orders, testing is a preparation for a future that requires an extremely narrow focus on irrelevancies while not having the time to be creative, to develop the natural ability of human beings to think for themselves.

Testing should be ONLY a tool, used on occasion. In the US IT IS THE SYSTEM.

But the Educational Publishing Corps have made out like bandits from our system of testing. So that's something I suppose.

You have to hand it to them, letting Businesspeople take over our educational system hits two birds with one stone, first it produces people who will simply follow orders and second provides huge profits for THEM.

[madfloridian]

49. Preparing people to be good workers.

There is getting to be a two-tiered layer of education now. Some will be taught thinking skills, and creativity will be allowed. For most it is rote learning geared to the high stakes standardized tests made in secret by corporations and graded by them as well. If parents want access to the tests, they might have to hire a lawyer. I had that happen a few times, the parents lost.

[Douglas Carpenter]

50. I think in Scandinavia countries (although this may have changed) the idea of doing job evaluations

on people in almost any field on an annual or some periodic basis is not considered acceptable behavior. I recall a Swedish nurse I worked with who was shocked by the idea of annual work performance evaluations where employees are given scores in a number of different categories. If a person is doing something wrong they should be told. But to routinely score someone is degrading and harassing. I don't know how representative that is of Scandinavia or Europe in general - But I'm quite certain the modern routine job evaluation is a modern American invention and pretty much of the later half of the 20th Century.

[madfloridian]

56. I think back to when I watched the Ron Howard movie...Gung Ho

It came out in 1986. I remembered being shocked at how the employees were treated, and I thought our country would never ever treat workers like that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gung_Ho_(film)

But now they are.

Interesting comment in the Wiki post.

Influence[edit]

Toyota's executives in Japan have used Gung Ho as an example of how not to manage Americans.[3]

Guess what though. We are doing it to ourselves.

Teachers used to be respected here in this country, but now they are not. It's like an atmosphere that allows American workers to be marginalized and humiliated.

[daleanime]

51. K&R....

[Nite Owl]

55. Privtaize,

privatize, privatize!
If the private sector can make a dime they get congress to approve no matter what it means to people.

[LeftishBrit]

57. And Finnish kids actually do a lot better academically than those in most countries!

[madfloridian]

59. What I fear so much....

is that the practice of taking tests will lead to rote learning, not learning in depth with critical thinking skills.

When there is respect for the teachers, the students, and support for them....there will be more progress.

Just think about it. When our president's appointed head of education shows his disrespect for public school teachers we can be sure students and parents will pick up on that atmosphere.

[LeftishBrit]

60. Tell me about it; we have Michael bloody Gove as our Education Secretary!

Who is just like Arne Duncan, only worse!


And yes, I agree that this testing obsession is a very serious problem and very damaging to education.

[madfloridian]

63. I have done some reading about Gove.

I agree he sounds just as bad or worse. Arne Duncan loses his way if he loses his talking points. But because he's the president's basketball buddy he will never lose his position.

I think the steamroller is international.

[Vattel]

58. Obama, get a clue and notice this.

Why do you have always have to be dragged to the correct viewpoint? Use your brain a little.

[FloriTexan]

61. Kick!

[madfloridian]

64. Thanks for the kick.

Much appreciated.

[progressoid]

62. Respect and value education?

Pfft. Why do that when you can ridicule and profit from it.

[Douglas Carpenter]

66. knr

[Jasana]

68. I just don't understand this demonization of US teachers. It's completely bizarre. K&R nt.

[Starry Messenger]

71. k&r

Teacher-haters won't be happy until teachers are making minimum wage in privatized chain schools.

[amandabeech]

72. The Finnish kids actually learn, which is much more than our kids are doing

under Arne Duncan and Michele "duct tape" Rhee.

If our children are learning, it is in spite of these two grifters.

[yurbud]

75. blasphemy! We should ask "How can we help Wall Street?"

and teachers and even our kids be damned.