Congressman Moran Laments: $174,000 Isn't Enough To Make Ends Meet

[madinmaryland]

Yeah, I know he is a Democrat, but really??

******

In what world does an annual salary of $174,000 meet the definition of underpaid?

That would be in the nation's capital, where soon-to-be-retired Rep. Jim Moran, D-Va., Americans should know that their members of Congress — as the board of directors for the "largest economic entity in the world" — are underpaid.

The longtime congressman made his comments Thursday after the House voted for the sixth straight year to deny members an automatic cost-of-living raise they're entitled to under law.

Not surprisingly, reaction to Moran's assertion was swift and derisive.

"Tone deaf," Daniel Doherty at the conservative Town Hall website.

"The guy is retiring and has apparently gone Bulworth after getting his pension info," , referring to the 1998 movie featuring a politician who goes rogue and speaks without a filter. (With one big difference: , played by Warren Beatty, addresses racial and economic divisions, not congressional pay.)

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2014/04/04/299078253/congressmans-lament-174-000-isnt-enough-to-make-ends-meet

[TreasonousBastard]

1. We have cops making that much...

and a few teachers.

What everyone who isn't making 174 grand forgets is that it's a middle manager's pay out here in real life, and doesn't pay for the second DC residence or all the local running around in your district. Sure, they get some expenses, but with massive restrictions.

Most of 'em could make a lot more with less bullshit elsewhere, and many did.

So, the question is why does anyone run for office?

On edit--

I ran for office once, and the least important thing anyone cared about was whether or not I could do the job.

[Ed Suspicious]

4. Poor, poor rich people.

http://library.clerk.house.gov/reference-files/112_20120104_Salary.pdf


They make a lot of money by the standard of any calloused handed worker they might represent.

[madinmaryland]

10. Yes. In the NY and DC areas cops can make that much money, but they

are mostly upper management or guys who moonlight making double/triple time. Most cops and public employees make a quarter to a third of the amount a congressman makes. Outside of Congresscritters, public employees have NO perks and MASSIVE restrictions.

The Congresscritters you are defending WILL make a lot of money after leaving office and they ARE making a lot of money with ALL of the perks they are receiving.

I am assuming you ran for a state or local office, where there are few perks, at least until the SCOTUS decision this week.

[TreasonousBastard]

19. Who's defending anyone...

the simple truth is that 175 grand isn't that much money, except to those who make a lot less and have no clue.

Around here, cops' base is over a hundred grand and special duty, OT, etc, can boost it much higher. Big scandal a few years ago about Port Authority cops getting their pay to over 200 grand to boost retirement checks.

A congressman has to have a home in his district (in my county, median home prices are around $350,000-- last I looked, with one zip code having a median of 3 1/2 million) and at least a crashpad in DC. And then, he works more than 40 hours a week. (Although there is a good question about "working&quot

Just for shits and giggles, if you were looking for senior VPs for a fortune 500 corporation, what do you think the salary range would be? In theory, at least, is the job of Congressman worth less?

NY state used to have state legislators paid little because it was a part-time job. Eventually, they made it a full-time job with reasonable pay because the legislators were taking bribes to pay their bills. Now, that didn't eliminate the corruption, but it made it unnecessary.

Granted, almost everyone in Congress is rich before they get there, and there are more or less legal ways to make more money when you're there. But, it gets silly when you want to pay those who are charged with managing the nation less than some restaurant managers make.

[madinmaryland]

29. You are...

While I agree that there are a handful of congresscritters getting paid less than the median income, they are only the ones living in the most expensive locations in the country.

I would also say that the the restaurant manager of the Olive Garden in mid-town Manhattan makes far less the Rep. Moran makes.

BTW, if I was a senior VP for a fortune 500 corporation, I would have a continuous orgasm after the latest SCOTUS ruling.

[TreasonousBastard]

32. And I'm saying that...

as in any salary negotiation or description, someone decides what the job is worth. How that decision is made depends on a lot of things.

I say that the "job" of Congressman is important enough to be paid well. How well? I'm not sure, but I do have a problem with knee-jerk reactions to any number thrown out.

And I'm thinking more of the manager of the Four Seasons.

[madinmaryland]

38. Wow, just Wow! Being a representative of this nation or whatever state you might

be in is a "job"???

They were selected for their position to support their constituents. The way you speak of it, it is a career for many of them. How much do you think they should be paid.

I really think it is a moot point, now that the Kochaine brothers can pay their representatives millions of dollars a year. Kochaine Brother John Roberts says it is FREE-DUMB of speech.

[TreasonousBastard]

41. Sure it's a job. What else...

would you call it? And, it is a career for many of them.

I have no idea what they should be paid, but I know people with major responsibilities and most of them get more than that. My argument, if i have one at all, is simply with the knee-jerking going on about what they do make, and how a raise is unthinkable.

(Historically, Senators with good fastballs make a lot more than Senators with good legislative skills)

[hfojvt]

11. sure we do

it's "middle managers pay"?

In WHAT real world?

In 2009, a whopping 8.2% of households made more than $150,000.

On the other side, 50% of them made less than $50,000 and 36% of them made less than $35,000.

Sure 20% of households made more than $100,000 and how many of those were TWO income households?

Yeah, it's just so darned easy for people to make more than $174,000.

Wonder why the other 90% of us haven't figure that out yet?

[TreasonousBastard]

20. Perhaps we need to define "middle managers"

I was thinking more along these lines:

http://www1.salary.com/Advertising-Sales-Director-Salary.html

And where did i say it was easy?

But, I'm still wondering why the managers of the government should be paid at the low end of the senior management scale.

(I admit many of them aren't worth minimum wage, but that's not the point)

[Gravitycollapse]

30. They are civil servants, not private executives.

Their job is to serve the people. It is supposed to be a position of sacrifice and the reward is serving your citizens.

The problem is we have people like you trying to further the narrative that it should be a career reserved for the wealthy.

[TreasonousBastard]

34. It is a career for the wealthy as it now stands, and...

how naive could you possibly be to think most people running for office would do it out of the goodness of their hearts?

[Gravitycollapse]

37. I said it is supposed to be. As opposed to you who really seems to love the status quo.

What next? You'll probably argue that congresspersons are so important they should be paid comparably to the highest paid executives.

Does 400 million dollars a year seem reasonable to you? After all, we wouldn't want to suffer a brain drain.

[TreasonousBastard]

39. Now you're being silly.

[Gravitycollapse]

42. I'm taking your argument to it's logical conclusion. Which is that we must pay them millions...

In order to insure a steady flow of volunteers.

You have this so ass-backwards you don't even understand. Positions of national service are principally supposed to be civil servants. Do you understand what that means? Servants to the citizens. They serve the interests of the citizenry and part of that role is valuing the job as a position of sacrifice and not simply an opportunity to get rich (legally or illegally).

You don't seem to have the foggiest idea what that means.

[TreasonousBastard]

47. "Supposed to be" and "is" are...

two entirely different things. As I mentioned elsewhere, squeezing them on pay here in NY simply gave them an incentive to steal. And I never said we have to pay them that well-- I would suggest just enough so most of them wouldn't think they were being punished.

I am well aware of what public service is supposed to be, and that it actually happens, albeit occasionally. More to the point would be that politics, as practiced in the US (and quite a few other places) corrupts by its very nature.

Look at the history of Tammany Hall, started as a labor movement to help Irish immigrants, and how it became such a legendary pot of corruption. Illinois, New Jersey, Louisiana... all textbook cases of massive corruption. Those who do see it as service are often soon corrected.

Curiously, our Presidents, even the worst of them, never seemed to be in it for personal gain. Most of them did do well, but that wasn't their goal.

[Gravitycollapse]

48. How can you sit here and argue with a good conscience that they think they're being punished...

After winning public office? They won the position to which they were running. How is that punishment? They are at the pinnacle of legislative office. That itself is an extreme honor, a massive reward.

I am well aware of what public service is supposed to be

I really seriously don't think you do. Your argument wouldn't exist as it does now if you truly understood what it means to be a literal representative of the citizenry.

[hfojvt]

52. sorry I think those salaries there are bullsh*t

national statistics show that almost nobody is making that kind of money.

And that $174,000 is not the low end of anything, except maybe CEO salaries.

I just spent four years serving on a public board. My salary was nothing. The actual manager of the company though, he was paid something like $110,000.

I'd be more inclined to wonder why supposed public servants are paid more than 90% of the people they supposedly serve.

[Ed Suspicious]

17. Again, what does a a full time Mcdonalds working single mother earning minimum wage earn?

I don't usually begrudge them their salaries until they say something so disconnected from a real world reality. Hey, if they want to go earn more in a law office, I'm sure we can find plenty of thoughtful civic-minded regular people who would love the job at the current pay.

[Gravitycollapse]

26. In what fantasy world do you exist that 174K a year is middle management pay?

[TreasonousBastard]

28. Go two posts up.

[Gravitycollapse]

35. Great. Except you've intentionally picked a high paying position.

For instance,the average income for top executives is 101K a year.

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/management/top-executives.htm

And the average income for a financial manager is 109K annually

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/management/financial-managers.htm

[TreasonousBastard]

36. OK,OK, so, just exactly...

how much should a Congressman make, and why?

[Gravitycollapse]

40. They should not be paid more than the average American. Which is 55,000 a year.

That is after the state covers the costs of their travel and lodging (which should be strictly managed).

[TreasonousBastard]

43. Interesting thought-- pay them the current median pay...

and they go up and down with the economy.

Gives them some incentive to keep the median up there.

Ain't gonna happen, but it is an interesting concept.

[left is right]

53. I have often said this

I would go one step further and tie the congressperson’s wage to the median salary of his or her state. Why should a “right to work” low salary state’s CP be paid the same as the CP from a progressive higher salary state?

[Autumn]

2. Harry Reid says $10.10 per hour will lift a person out of poverty.

This moran has a lot of fucking nerve. Seems to me in terms of what has been done in the last couple of decades he is vastly overpaid.

[fizzgig]

3. give me a third of that and i'd be plenty well off

[Ed Suspicious]

5. My family of 4 earns just under 40k per year with two of us working.

We have to pay for health, life, auto and home insurance and our retirement savings comes out of that pie. Yeah it costs more in DC but fuck that noise that they have it any harder than most of their constituents.

[fizzgig]

6. there's two of us living on that

we're pretty ok until an emergency comes along and drains the savings. husband is out of work right now and we can't make it much longer on my pay alone.

[Ed Suspicious]

8. That's our story. We get by until the transmission goes out or a $750 dollar emergency room

fee bites us. Then it's rough.

[JI7]

25. yes, and i'm in Los Angeles where one does NOT need to have hundreds of thousands

to live comfortably .

[K lib]

7. come on now

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/10/20/10-perks-congress-has-that-you-dont.aspx

10. A $1.2 million to $3.3 million allowance
Members of the House receive a $900,000 annual allowance for a staff as well as a $250,000 budget for travel and office expenses, paid for entirely by taxpayers. Each senator, on the other hand, gets a budget close to $3.3 million based on figures from the Congressional Research Service. Again, certain companies do offer lavish pay packages and perks to employees so it may be a bit hypocritical to pick on Congress for this one point. However, I’m not aware of any business out there where all employees equally get at least $1.2 million in expenses at their disposal.

[TreasonousBastard]

21. This is true, but if you are Exec VP of...

Bklprfx Corp., how much does the company pay for your staff (depending on how you define staff) And how much does the company pay for that Gulfstream and the limo services?

[tularetom]

9. He represents one of the wealthiest districts in the country

Including Fairfax County where the median family income is almost 100k. It's only 20 mi. from the capitol so he probably doesn't have to maintain a second home but just the cost of living there has to be pretty steep. For that reason alone I'd be inclined to cut him a bit of slack.

[Ed Suspicious]

12. He can get a part time job and earn another 15% if it gets too rough on him.

Lord knows he has the time to pick up some temp jobs if needed. That 15% equals my wife's yearly salary. How much do minimum wage earners make in DC? They must earn a ton to afford housing there.

[hfojvt]

13. so it's tough making a mere 175% more

than 50% of your constituents?

And that's only if your spouse doesn't have a job.

[Ed Suspicious]

15. And don't forget there is no employee contribution to health and life insurance or pension.

[Ed Suspicious]

14. ...

Median household income in DC, 2008-2012 $64,267 Median in the US $53,046

[madinmaryland]

16. His wealth is kind of bizarre. He has lost most of wealth in the last few years...

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/politics/capitol-assets/member/james-moran/

I'm not sure what happened, but that would explain why he is upset and complaining.

I've spent the last 30 years working in lower Fairfield County, CT, New York City, and the DC area (including Fairfax County) and know the cost of living. He has to have had a lot of money and backing to get elected year after year.

[JI7]

24. maybe he had some investments like Grayson

[MADem]

45. If I recall correctly, he went through a ghastly and very public divorce awhile back.

He's had a contentious life, a bit of substance abuse and personal indiscretion. He was a good congressman, as I recall, though--decent constituent service, responsive, voted the right way on most issues, reliable blue guy by and large, enough clout on the Hill to get things done.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/15/rep-james-p-moran-jrs-div_n_877656.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/virginia-politics/post/divorce-takes-huge-toll-on-morans-finances/2011/06/15/AGn4yFWH_blog.html


He's an old schooler from Somerville originally--not schooled in the social graces overmuch. Never lost the accent...

[JI7]

22. nope, the cost of living excuse is bs , people say that about california and NY all the time

when most people live on far less than that .

these people are probably living beyond their means because of spending on luxury . they probably have more than 2 cars. they send kids to private schools and spend a bunch of them and other shit.

but one can live well sending kids to public school, even have 2 (or even more) cars that aren't the most expensive ones out there. and even go on vacations.

[Purveyor]

18. All I know is, we are fucked if the GOP runs the table in 2016...

Sorry for the vulgar lang...

[Skip Intro]

23. Poor guy. n/t

[doc03]

27. DC does have an extremely high cost of living and they also have to maintain

a home in their district. Most of them are millionaires before they go there anyway and
defiantly are when they leave.

[JI7]

31. so share a place with some other members

[Gravitycollapse]

44. I'm envisioning a sort of apartment complex. Cheap, yet comfortable.

[madinmaryland]

33. I moved from the DC area (obvious from my SN!) and know that...

From up thread, Rep. Moran was a multi-millionaire who lost most of his money and now is whining about it.

[JI7]

46. how did he lose the money ? investments ? the same investments as grayson ?

but yes, now what you say explains what his comments are really about.

[demwing]

49. I'm surprised no one has commented on the "board of directors" bullshit

"Americans should know that their members of Congress — as the board of directors for the "largest economic entity in the world" — are underpaid.

That the congressman sees himself more as a part owner in a corporate hierarchy than as a public servant in a Democracy, just fucking infuriates me.

[alp227]

50. eff that guy. I remember a Republican named John Fleming who also made such complaint.

But over...$400,000 a year.

[exboyfil]

51. How about this as a proposal

1. 3x the median per capita family income in their state (change this number as appropriate)
2. Only work in Washington Tue-Thurs
3. All food and lodging provided in something like a mid range hotel for each member (one with reasonable facilities but nothing fancy). $35/day per diem or utilize common cafeteria
4. All travel economy class paid for back and forth to their districts - require them to be home at least 60% of their time
5. Family remains in their homes in their districts

One of the biggest problems with our elected representatives is that they lose touch from the people who elected them. Having them lodge together may also improve their ability to work together (it worked for our founding fathers). Many people live like this (in mid range hotels during the week). I did for three years. Setting up your family in Washington should not be encouraged.

[Sgent]

54. Do it like the military

a base pay of 80,000 or so plus a housing allowance X 2 (DC and Home) equivalent to what the military pays (adjusted for taxes). Peg them to the rate that an O-6 or O-7 gets, and the issue is solved.