Florida store owner shoots teen in self-defense, killing him

[stockholmer]

http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_tampa/Store-owner-shoots-teen-in-self-defense-killing-him

TAMPA, Fla. - Taquanda Baker doesn't remember the suspect saying anything. She just remembers seeing his gun. "I was standing here," she said, pointing to a spot near her cash register. "As I saw him coming, he already had the gun up." Baker pulled her gun out of her pocket, misfiring a shot into the wall, then aimed and shot again. "He stumbled about 3 feet back, hit the floor, and I shot out the door," she recalls. Baker ran outside her convenience store to Armenia Avenue and flagged down a TPD cruiser.

"I was like, 'I just shot somebody. Help me! Help me! Help me!" While paramedics raced the suspect to the hospital, police put Baker in handcuffs and in the backseat of a patrol car. She told them she not only knew the person she shot -- she knew he was only 16. "I used to tease with him, 'Why aren't you in school today?'" Baker explained. Baker calls Quintavius Moore a regular customer, who shopped in her store several times a day. He'd buy shirts or candy, sometimes he even brought kids in.

Moore's grandmother, Delores Wesley, wouldn't comment on her grandson's death, but asked ABC Action News to relay a message to other teens. "Stay in school," Wesley said. "Put God in your life." Knowing she killed Moore, even in self-defense, makes Baker sick. "It's a feeling in the inside. I can't explain it," Baker said. "It's like my heart's broken."

Baker bought the gun when she opened her store a couple years ago. She puts it in her pocket first thing every morning. She keeps it concealed, so she's not sure more even knew she had a gun, especially since this was the first time she's ever had to use it. "With $30 in the register, so if he was lucky enough to get the money, it would've just been $30," Baker said. "That's nothing. It's not worth your life."

snip

video at link above
-------------------------------
more video

http://www.wtsp.com/news/topstories/article/247290/250/Store-owner-heartbroken-after-shooting-teen-suspect

[Tommy_Carcetti]

1. While I'm not a fan of guns or CCW....

...this is more of a traditional self-defense. Gun vs. gun.

The Trayvon Martin case was gun vs. unarmed teenager.

[Baitball Blogger]

5. Store vs. out in the street encounter.

No contest.

[HockeyMom]

2. I gotta get out of the state of Florida

This state is totally out of control.

[rgbecker]

3. More poor reporting.....

Was there indeed a gun in the guy's hand?....was there a gun found on the scene? How did the guy get the gun?

As usual, more questions than answers.

[rhett o rick]

4. So she was clearly defending her self and property and she gets handcuffed.

Zimmerman got a pass.

[zipplewrath]

7. Actually he did too

Cuffed, the gun was confiscated, and spent a few hours being interrogated and even taken back to the scene to physically demonstrate what happened. I'm not saying alot of steps weren't missed, but that wasn't one of them.

[rhett o rick]

61. I would love to see a link to that. nm

[FrodosPet]

63. Twin Lakes Shooting Initial Report

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin%20Lakes%20Shooting%20Initial%20Report.pdf

[rhett o rick]

80. Whatthe??? That link didnt tell me shite.

It didnt say he was, "cuffed, the gun was confiscated, and [he] spent a few hours being interrogated and even taken back to the scene".

Seems you are defending the killer. Tell me I am wrong.

[X_Digger]

85. I saw it, on page 3.. (mostly)

"Zimmerman complied with all of my verbal commands and was secured in handcuffs. Located on the inside of Zimmerman's waistband, I removed a black KelTec 9mm PF9 semi-auto handgun and holster.
....
Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle....Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, he was transported to the Sanford Police Department.

Zimmerman was placed in an interview room at SPD, where he was interviewed by Investigator D. Singleton."

It also has the evidence tag (TS-1) for the gun.

Not sure about the 'few hours', though. And I haven't seen anything about being taken back to the scene from a credible source.

[rhett o rick]

95. Thanks. I missed it. nm

[zipplewrath]

6. Probably not her's either

She shot, poorly, for $30. She better convince herself that he was going to use that gun, or she shot some 16 year old kid over $30.

[X_Digger]

10. Why not take someone at their word when they threaten violence by pointing a deadly weapon at you?

Which do you think was at stake? Her life? Or $30?

[zipplewrath]

11. From this 16 year old?

From this 16 year old that let her shoot twice when he already had his gun drawn?

I'm betting it was the $30. The question really is, based upon what she said about the kid, and the situation, and her own feelings is, what does SHE believe. She's going to have a good long time to think about it.

[X_Digger]

15. A 16 year old that she knew? And could identify him? By name?!?

Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

[Snake Alchemist]

17. Only if she's alive. nt

[zipplewrath]

19. It always helps to read

From the original post:

She told them she not only knew the person she shot -- she knew he was only 16. "I used to tease with him, 'Why aren't you in school today?'" Baker explained. Baker calls Quintavius Moore a regular customer, who shopped in her store several times a day. He'd buy shirts or candy, sometimes he even brought kids in.

What were you pulling on?

[X_Digger]

24. I actually did read it, but you seem to have a different interpretation..

What incentive would a robber have to leave a person alive who could not only describe him, but give his actual name?!?

-Pointing a gun at her? Check.
-No mask, bandanna, etc? Check.
-Able to name the robber? Check.

[zipplewrath]

30. Let her shoot TWICE

Check.

Like I say, SHE'S going to have to decide this stuff. She's the one expressing sorrow over what went down over $30.

It isn't easy to kill someone. It's even harder if you think you made a mistake.

[X_Digger]

31. I'm not sure what you think that shows, care to enlighten me?

Perhaps he froze, realizing that the person he had no reason to leave alive might actually shoot back.

Perhaps he was gobsmacked that the victim he thought he knew so well wasn't prepared to die meekly.

[zipplewrath]

32. Perhaps he wasn't ready to use the weapon

Perhaps he wasn't ready to use the weapon.
Perhaps he was more afraid than she was.
Perhaps he was a 16 year old kid with no idea what he was doing.

She's got some questions running around in her head that she's going to have to answer for a lifetime.

You seem to think that killing 16 year olds comes easy. It doesn't. It generates very hard questions that don't really have answers.

[backscatter712]

34. And you're talking about a store clerk facing a robber in a gun, in a high-adrenaline situation.

You think anyone in that situation is going to think things through?

You think has any idea as to whether the robber was going to shoot or not?

We can't ask a person under those circumstances to pause for an ethical debate in the middle of a life-and-death situation. She saw a guy pointing a gun at her, she drew her own gun and fired.

It's not about $30, she felt her life was in danger.

[zipplewrath]

47. Actually

She reacted the way she planned to react when she put it into her pocket every morning. When she put it in her pocket, she never thought about a 16 year old boy she knew trying to steal $30. Now that she has killed someone, SHE is thinking about all of these things and probably more. She appears to be questioning the choices she made. Almost anyone would. Killing someone raises alot of questions that don't easily go away.

I haven't asked her anything. SHE is asking herself alot of things, now.

[X_Digger]

36. No, I don't think it's easy. But I'm not going to second guess her without having been there.

And I'm certainly not going to presume to climb into her head.

[zipplewrath]

49. I commented on HER second guessing

If you read my original post, you'll see I was commenting upon HER reflections on the incident.

[X_Digger]

51. And you came to the conclusion that

[div class='excerpt']She shot, poorly, for $30.

[zipplewrath]

54. Yeah, that's it

Communication is a two way street ya know

I drew no conclusions. I asked if she considered her own question in her own context.

[SATIRical]

44. If he wasn't ready to use the weapon

why was he brandishing it.

Everyone with ANY gun training knows you do not point a gun unless you are willing to fire at the target.

[zipplewrath]

48. Yeah especially 16 year olds

Why was a 16 year old doing something really stupid and unprepared to act appropirately?

Is "because he was 16 years old" a sufficient explanation or do you require more?

[SATIRical]

52. So you are clearly for parental permission

for abortion as well? Clearly a 16-year-old is not mature enough to make that decision, right? Sorry, you need to pick a side. They either know enough to make some decisions about their lives or they are not.

16 year-olds make dumb decisions while driving that also get them killed. I guess we should not let them drive ether?

Even an 8 year old know that it is wrong to rob a store, much less with a gun. And that same 8-year old knows that there is a chance they will get shot while doing it (although many would expect the cops to be doing the shooting).

Sorry, but he chose to threaten that woman's life and it was a poor choice.

[zipplewrath]

55. Gungeon time

It's obviously time this moved into the gungeon if this is what's going to pass for logic in a discussion.

16 year olds do dumb things. I'd bet she's thinking about that right now. It's not easy to kill someone. It's even harder to kill a child.

And no, I don't need to "pick a side". I'm sympathetic to the struggle she appears to be going through and the questions she is asking herself.

[SATIRical]

56. So 16 year-olds ARE or ARE NOT

good enough decision-makers to be able to command a device that kills far more Americans than enev (gasp) guns? (Yes, I am talking about a car)

[zipplewrath]

57. THIS 16 year old

THIS 16 year old let some woman get off two shots from a gun she pulled from her pocket, when he already had his drawn.

THIS women will get to think about that for the rest of her life while she is also thinking about the fact that she killed a 16 year old boy who was dumb enough to rob a store for $30 with a gun.

Believe it or not, some people will actually question these things for a long time.

[Fla_Democrat]

68. It wasn't a musket

How long do you think it takes to fire two shots?

[zipplewrath]

71. How long to return fire?

Neither of these people were particularly "trained".

[Fla_Democrat]

76. Doesn't take training to fire fast

just takes training to hit what you are shooting at when you do.

[NoGOPZone]

67. what percentage of sixteen year old armed robbers

do you think have had ANY gun training?

[Lizzie Poppet]

81. Probably all three.

So what? He was threatening this woman with a deadly weapon. It's not her responsibility to somehow determine* if he's suddenly going to overcome his fear (and, I suspect, surprise that she turned out to be armed) and start shooting. I feel for the kid and his family, but let's not mince words: he pulled an industrial-strength-stupid move and died for it. Darwin bats last.


*And even if it were her responsibility to determine his real intent, how do you propose she do so? Suddenly develop magical mind reading powers?

[zipplewrath]

89. She may want to be Darwin's servant

It is very possible, considering her own words, that she may not want to be Darwin's servant.

[zipplewrath]

64. Because they are 16?

I don't really have a way of knowing what was at stake. She does, and shes the one asking questions. She probably will be for life.

[X_Digger]

66. And 16 year olds never shoot anyone?

I'm sure she will, too. As would anyone. But I refuse to begrudge her the choice she made.

[zipplewrath]

72. Nor do I

But I can understand the questions she's going to be asking for a life time.

[X_Digger]

79. "She shot, poorly, for $30." -- Kinda looks like you do. n/t

[ScreamingMeemie]

41. $25 for a dead convenience clerk.

Yeah, that's what happened around the corner in my neighborhood. The store owner was unarmed, the video camera caught the guy walking into the store, shooting the clerk without any questions or back and forth, and walking out with...25 dollars. I don't carry a gun but I have also seen what can happen at a convenience store when there is only one witness.

[Dokkie]

94. That is why you

couldn't pay me enough money to work at a convince store. Sometimes the armed robbers give no warning and why leave you alive when you gonna help ID after the robbery.

[rhett o rick]

62. Alert. The kid had a gun. How do you not understand that??????

It has nothing to do with the $30 dollars and you know it. If she gave him the money he still might have killed her.
The fact that her life was obviously in danger and you still criticize her makes me wonder of your agenda.

[zipplewrath]

65. Not criticizing

She's asking tough questions. She'll be asking tough questions probably her whole life. They were the questions she didn't ask when she put that gun in her pocket every morning.

[zipplewrath]

90. You're not understanding me

Go back, with an open mind, realize that you're NOT in the gungeon, and re-read what I've written, not what you think I'm talking about. Then put yourself in HER place, don't put her in yours, and look at what SHE'S said, and consider the questions SHE might be asking herself for the rest of her life. Then ask yourself this simple question. How much of this did she think about every morning she put that gun in her pocket.

[Edweird]

69. A kid the she can identify pointing a gun at her means she was going to get killed.

She didn't shoot him over $30 - she saved her own life. That's the reality,

[zipplewrath]

73. That's the presumption

I'm sure she'll question that choice for life

[Edweird]

98. Do you believe that she wasn't going to call the cops if he robbed her a gunpoint?

Do you believe that the owner knew who the robber was?
Do you believe that she could have identified him to the police?
Do you believe she would have?
Do you believe he was not aware of this?

If he did not kill her he was automatically going to prison.

There is no way she was going to survive that encounter had she not killed him first.

[zipplewrath]

102. I have no way of knowing

the question is what she believes. She's the one questioning the situation and will probably question what she did for the rest of her life.

By the way, you don't know either.

[Edweird]

114. The question wasn't what she believes, but what YOU believe.

It was stated clearly that she and the robber knew each other. What happens when someone you know sticks a gun in your face and threatens to kill you?

[zipplewrath]

115. I have no way of knowing

I can't form a "belief" when I have no idea what she was going to do. This isn't an article of "faith".

What happens when someone sticks a gun in my face and threatens to kill me? That's going to be a VERY contextual question. It will depend a great deal upon what I know about the individual and the nature of our relationship.

[Edweird]

116. For someone that has 'no way of knowing' you sure were judgmental of another defending their LIFE.

When someone you know well enough to identify but aren't any closer than that points a gun at you, they are probably going to kill you. Why? BECAUSE YOU CAN IDENTIFY THEM! That woman's life was on the line and she acted appropriately.

[zipplewrath]

117. How was I judgemental?

She asked the question, I just turned it around a bit. I didn't even offer an answer. I'm sure she is asking alot of questions. I'm not claiming to have the answers, unlike alot of internet rambos around here.

By the way, I've had people I know "point guns at me", and I'm still alive. Context is everything.

[oldhippie]

111. At least she will be able to ask that question for life ......

I think that's better than taking the last few milliseconds of life after the bullet passes through her heart to think, "Gee, I wish I had shot first. Who would have thought the kid would shoot me? Oh, well."

I never want my dying thought to be, "Damn, I wish I'd had my gun."

[zipplewrath]

91. Hope she see's it that way

For her sake, I hope she sees it that way.

[Yo_Mama]

75. 10 year mandatory sentence if he got tried as an adult

http://www.ericmathenylaw.com/Criminal-Defense-Blog/2010/March/10-20-Life.aspx

She knew him by name, and he knew that. So he was either an extraordinarily stupid person or he intended to kill her. It's possible that he didn't intend to kill her, but she was playing "You bet your life," - and she didn't get to choose whether to play that game. He chose.

It's a rotten choice to have to make, but I think it is totally unfair to claim that she shot him for $30. No, she didn't. She didn't. She shot him because she didn't have a very good chance of him being willing to take the ten years in order to avoid killing her.

Think about it.

It's sickening, yes. She didn't want to kill him - the moment he went down she turned and ran. You are missing something called "compassion" to write what you wrote.

If this was your sister, your wife, your mother - how would you advise her?

[zipplewrath]

92. There is no time

As someone else pointed out, there is no "time" to think of these things when events occur. All the thinking will happen after the fact. In essence, it's not even a "rotten choice" because there was no real choice there. It's why she shot one in the floor first. She wasn't thinking. And she wasn't thinking of this particular scenario when she put the gun in her pocket every morning. As you say, it doesn't appear she "wanted" to kill him. And now she's asking questions. After the fact is the wrong time to start asking these questions. But none the less, that is what she is left with.

[Yo_Mama]

100. Yes, of course

But the reason she had the gun was that she knew she ran a real risk of being killed at work. Not robbed, but killed.

She has three kids. No one does that for fun. In one news article I read she commented that she often had her one year-old at the store with her.

I find this story overwhelmingly tragic, and while I certainly hope the kid wouldn't have killed her had she not had a gun, I don't feel sure of it. At all. The store didn't have video cameras, so probably would have been home free if he had just killed her.

It's nothing but sorrow, but to imply that the woman shot the kid for the sake of $30 is, IMO, utterly unjustifiable. You can't just pretend that stuff like this doesn't happen:
http://www.wtsp.com/news/article/215272/250/Convenience-store-clerk-shot-in-Tampa
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2083838/Caught-camera-The-horrifying-moment-store-clerk-nearly-shot-head--gun-wouldnt-fire.html?ITO=1490
http://www.winknews.com/Local-Florida/2011-10-19/Convenience-store-clerk-shoots-would-be-robber

About ten years ago I helped raise money for a local woman who was shot and badly hurt in a convenience store robbery locally. It happens.

[zipplewrath]

104. Alot of things happen

I've known a few guys that literally just grabbed guns out of "kids" hands. They "knew" the kids and came to the judgement that they were being stupid.

Dangerous? Could be, I was shocked when they told me the stories. Accidents happen, even when the kids are being stupid.

But I'm not foolish enough to think that this woman isn't going to have to ask herself some hard questions. Questions she never asked herself when she put that gun in her pocket every morning. Questions that the internet Rambo's around here with their "kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out" attitude don't like to hear. But you can bet she is asking them. And everyone that sticks that gun in their pocket in the morning should ask themselves BEFORE they shoot a 16 year old. They are questions that more than one cop has had to ask themselves for years after, even though the kid was, or more stupid as this one.

Killing kids isn't nearly as easy or clear as many here would like it to be.

[moriah]

87. Hold up and let me see if I have this straight.

You think that a woman with a young child to support, when confronted with a robber who is pointing a gun at her, should risk her life on the hope that maybe he didn't really intend to shoot her??? That takes the cake, seriously.

BTW: Her 50% hit rate is better than the 20% nationwide for police officers. (She fired into the wall, then hit him, then "shot" out the door -- as in, she was running, not that she shot her gun through the door.)

Edit to add: I'm certain this is going to haunt her the rest of her life. Anyone who would actually take pleasure in killing another human being is sick. But she did what she had to do -- she made sure she will still be around to take care of her daughter.

[zipplewrath]

93. You haven't read what I wrote at all

You're projecting alot of thoughts I don't have into the conversation. You'll have to actually read what I wrote OUT of the context of other arguements you've had with people in the past. You've misunderstood everything.

I didn't tell her what choice to make at all. I am sensitive to the "choice" she did make and the ALL the consequences of those choices.

[moriah]

99. I have read your posts.

And you seem to think that she had another choice.

In my opinion, she had no choice. A gun was pointed at her. She had the means to make sure she didn't leave her child motherless. There was no other reasonable choice she could have made. Of course she wishes it never happened. Of course she wishes she hadn't been put in that position.

But that doesn't mean she had any real choice.

The 16 year old was the one who made the choice. He chose to rob someone at gunpoint.

[zipplewrath]

103. She may not agree with you

And THAT was the point of my posts. She made decisions she is now apparently questioning within the context of a specific incident. Not in the context of some interent Rambo.

[moriah]

106. I didn't see anything questioning about what she said.

"'I feel bad, but I have to protect myself,' said a tearful Baker shortly after learning the suspect who tried robbing her had died at the hospital."

Of course she feels awful. She wouldn't be a decent human being if she didn't.

I just hope she's not having to read internet users judging her decision to save her own life badly.

[zipplewrath]

107. I see more

"It's a feeling in the inside. I can't explain it," Baker said. "It's like my heart's broken."

"With $30 in the register, so if he was lucky enough to get the money, it would've just been $30," Baker said. "That's nothing. It's not worth your life."

She fears what happened Monday has likely changed her life forever.

[moriah]

113. And it has, for certain. n/t

[sinkingfeeling]

8. So why didn't she just give him the $30 if 'It's not worth your life'?

[Speck Tater]

13. Was it really over $30, or was it a threat to HER life?

It's disingenuous to say he was shot over $30 when, in fact, she may have been in danger of losing her life.

The truth is I wasn't there, you weren't there, none of us was there, so all we can do, and in fact all we EVER do when this subject comes up is make up stories and scenarios that conform to our preconceptions.

We don't enter these discussions and post out thoughts in order to get at the truth. We come here and post our favored scenarios in order to justify what we already believe to be the case, even before the evidence is in.

And then we lie to ourselves, just like all humans do, and tell ourselves that we are being objective. That is such bullshit. Objectivity and being human are simply not compatible, and never have been, and countless psychological studies have proven it over and over. We are none of us interested in the truth unless that truth happens to coincide with what we want to be true.

[zipplewrath]

20. Guess I read a different article

She was the one that brought up the $30. She was the one that mentioned feeling very bad. My responses were based upon HER comments.

[sinkingfeeling]

26. Like he threatened her life?

[Speck Tater]

38. And you know this because you were there?

Or are you just making up stories that make you feel good about your already established opinion?

The human race is just so screwed up. There's no chance we will ever solve the problems in this world when we can't even bring ourselves to be honest with ourselves about our own motivations.

[Sgent]

74. Assuming her story is correct

he was pointing a gun at her while demanding she comply with his demands.

Seems like the unsaid implication is "or I will shoot you".

I don't know how much clearer someone can be when threatening your life.

[Speck Tater]

78. Exactly. And if you point that out to someone who doesn't want it to be true...

you get jumped all over.

That's my point. People, all people, not just here on DU, decide what they believe first, and then either search for facts to support what they believe, or if there are no facts that support them, they make up stories about what "must have" happened. Any time a news story involving something we have strong opinions about is posted here, what we get is NOT objective discussion of the facts, but stories made up to support a preconceived conclusion.

And the sad thing is that you can show people the psychological studies that prove that this is how humans beings, ALL human beings, function, and they will STILL believe that they, personally, are the one exception in the world to that rule. They, and they alone, are considering all the facts and arriving at an objective decision.

I'm just really beginning to realize exactly how pervasive this phenomenon is. NOTHING posted on DU, or in Freeperville, for that matter, has anything to do with objective facts. It always and only has to do with telling ourselves and each other stories to justify the conclusions we already made long before any facts were available for consideration.

And I'm the same way. I long ago decided that the human race is fatally flawed and doomed to extinction, and I come here to DU only to pick and choose whatever evidence I can find that supports that pre-made conclusion.

[sinkingfeeling]

96. You're the one who said it. Or are you making up stories? Were you there?

[Speck Tater]

97. Of course I'm making up stories. It's what we ALL do. Just be honest and admit it. nt

[Lizzie Poppet]

82. Um...he pointed a GUN at her.

If that's not an implied threat of deadly force, I don't know what is.

[Marrah_G]

14. Because he pointed a gun at her

[Edweird]

70. It didn't matter how much money was in the register - she was as good as dead.

Care to guess why people wear disguises when they rob places?

If someone you knew pointed a gun at you and threatened to kill you if you didn't give them your purse:
would you call the police?
Would you positively identify them?
Do you think they would not know that?

[TomClash]

9. It's a corny cliche that's true

When you kill someone else, you kill a part of you too.

[drm604]

12. This sounds strange.

The kid was robbing a store where the owner knew him? He pulled a gun on someone who could later identify him?

It sounds like either she made a mistake or he was intending to kill her from the start.

[Snake Alchemist]

16. I'm kinda glad she didn't learn the answer to that question. nt

[hack89]

43. Prisons are full of stupid criminals. nt

[Aerows]

18. She was in her store

At her place of business. Someone pulls a gun on her, she shoots him. Self-defense, end of story.

That is MUCH different than two people out on the street, one exits his vehicle to pursue someone and ends up shooting an unarmed person.

[Quantess]

21. How come she got arrested?

She was defending herself.

[obamanut2012]

22. They cuffed and questioned her -- that is SOP in a shooting

Unless your name is George Zimmerman.

[X_Digger]

25. According to the police report, Zimmerman was handcuffed, taken to the PD, and questioned.

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin%20Lakes%20Shooting%20Initial%20Report.pdf

[mactime]

27. They cuffed and questioned Zimmerman as well

He was questioned by the police and then brought back to the scene to explain to the police what had happened. Only at that point was he released. People make it sound like the police just let him walk away.

[obamanut2012]

23. I am struck by her attitude compared to what we know of Zimmerman's

And, this woman had a gun pulled on her.

I hope she gets some counseling.

[uponit7771]

28. +1

[Mariana]

40. I think Zimmerman's mindset is totally different from hers.

I think she had the gun "just in case" and probably hoped never to have to use it. Now, she's devastated.

Zimmerman, on the other hand, may very well have expected to shoot a "bad guy" one day. He may even have been looking forward to doing so. I wouldn't be surprised if he had spent time thinking about it, imagining what it would be like, wondering how it would go down. He made a hobby of going out looking for "bad guys". Clearly in this case, he wasn't satisfied to simply report Trayvon or to scare him off. Was he hoping to get a chance to shoot this "bad guy" when he got out of his car, against the 911 operator's advice, and chased after Trayvon? We can't ever know for certain, but I sure think it's a possibility.

All this, of course, is pure speculation on my part, based on everything we've heard and read (that isn't blatantly false or totally irrelevant).

[Cleita]

29. This doesn't only happen in Florida.

I live in California and there was a jewelry/pawn shop a couple of blocks away from where I lived at one time. The shop was held up about eight times in the time I lived there and eight times the owner shot the thieves with a gun he kept hidden where he could reach for it. Some of them died. It was perfectly legal. The owner never was never charged with anything.

I also worked as a bartender in the past and I legally could hurt or kill anyone who stepped behind the bar if I ordered them not to. I also could shoot anyone who threatened me with a weapon from the other side of the bar. I never had a problem that dire that I couldn't handle it without that extreme of a solution, but legally I could have.

[saras]

33. She decided his life wasn't worth $30. That's all.

[slackmaster]

37. Would it be reasonable for her to think that if she gave him $30, he'd never bother her again?

ETA or that he wouldn't have shot her anyway?

[Snake Alchemist]

42. Or that his life wasn't worth hers. nt

[SATIRical]

45. Actually, HE is the one that made that decision (nt)

[Yo_Mama]

77. Bullshit

When someone YOU KNOW BY NAME walks in to rob you with a drawn weapon, your chances of getting out of that alive are very slim.

10 year minimum mandatory sentence for armed robbery in Florida if he was tried as an adult. What was she going to do - call the cops and ask if he had priors?
http://www.south-floridaattorney.com/criminal-defense/when-is-it-appropriate-for-a-juvenile-to-be-tried-as-an-adult-in-a-criminal-prosecution-in-florida/

If you walk in on someone you know with a drawn weapon in FL, you are either very, very stupid or you intend to kill them. I don't know what the kid was thinking and we'll never know, but baby, this shooting wasn't about the money.

He knew he would be tried and convicted of a very serious crime if she lived, if he was thinking at all.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/police-say-tampa-store-owner-shoots-kills-teenage-robber/1222000
That's a more detailed article. The kid had been arrested in November. Her account:

"He pulled out a gun, I reached in my pocket and pulled mine out, but as I pulled mine out it fired off," Baker told Bay News 9 at the scene. "So, I'm thinking it was going to scare him, but when I turned to look he still had the gun pointed at my shoulder probably, and I just shot again and it hit him and he dropped his gun and stumbled back and he just fell on the floor."

She has three kids. Maybe she wanted to see them again. Apparently she has shut down the store and may not reopen it.

[Lizzie Poppet]

83. Utter nonsense.

She decided his life wasn't worth hers. The kid was pointing a gun at her, ferchrissakes. That's an implied threat of deadly force, and indication that he was prepared to kill her (and, given that she knew him by name, he may very well have realized if he didn't kill her, she could ID him for armed robbery).

[moriah]

88. Do you honestly believe that?

Wow. Just ... wow.

[EC]

35. This is proper usage of the law

and what do you know? They hand-cuffed her, put her in the patrol car and actually investigated before releasing her.

[bongbong]

39. A good precedent

If you're a cashier in any kind of store in Florida, and one of the NRA gun-nuts who wears his gun openly walks in, start blazing away. After all, he might be a robber.



On edit: it looks like you have to get the idiot to pull his gun. That part won't be hard, just start insulting, I mean telling the truth about, repigs & weak people who need guns 24x7, even in completely safe places, to feel secure.

[SATIRical]

46. You won't last long

Those NRA gun nuts know that you do not pull out and point your weapon unless you are prepared to use it.

If it gets to the point wher the nut pulls his guns, he/she will have the jump on you and you will have at least one extra hole in you.

[bongbong]

53. Not me

I wasn't talking about me, I was talking about a cashier.

If I was advising a Florida store, I would say have two checkouts opposite each other. This way, the NRA gun-nut gets caught in a crossfire when he/she pulls out the gun. Being a gun-nut, it wouldn't know which way to turn and wouldn't get a chance to hurt anybody before meeting its maker in hell.

[Ikonoklast]

59. You never set up a firing position directly across from yours. That would be suicide.

Your own people would be firing directly into you.

You set up a position in enfilade.

The last thing you want to do is deliberately allow yourself to be in a position of cross-fire.

You have put yourself in a position of danger almost as much as your opponent.

[bongbong]

60. Got it covered

Heh heh heh.

I would advise the person opening the store to call it "Wing Nuts And Things - Serving Morans That Love Oxycontin And The Guys That Love Oxycontin Since 1946". It would be incorporated to take advantage of the the "corporations are people" repig laws, and the guns would be owned by the "person" that is the corporation.

[ileus]

50. glad she come out safe...

This is an example of how a life saving device is supposed to be used.

[closeupready]

58. I knew a convenience store clerk who was shot and killed.

He was such a puppy dog - gentle and friendly, always helpful and smiling.

The store changed to 24 hours, and were held up at gunpoint. If I recall correctly, this guy resisted, and the perps shot him. He died later in the hospital. I can't tell you how sad I get every single time I have to pass that deli, and I do so almost every single day. I always think about him, how he'd hang out in front, enjoying nice weather and saying hello to neighborhood residents.

The perps in that got away - with the cash and with murder.

As far as I'm concerned, it's very possible Taquanda is alive today because she fought back. And she sounds remorseful that he died, but when young people choose the path of a violent criminal, the outlook is grim.

[2ndAmForComputers]

84. "Taquanda is alive today because she fought back"

From what you say, your friend is dead because he, too, fought back.

[Zax2me]

86. Oh hell, just rush all the stores -

http://www.local10.com/news/Police-Trayvon-protesters-ransack-store/-/1717324/9719674/-/xctonpz/-/index.html

[TeamsterDem]

101. It's always sad when someone dies, but it sounds like she was justified

at least according to this story. Terrible stuff to see 16 yearolds dying, though.

[zipplewrath]

105. Justified don't make it much easier

I'm glad they didn't figure out afterwards that the stupid gun wasn't loaded or something.

There are alot of things that are justifiable that still leave hard questions afterwards. First responders deal with all manner of hard questions after "justifiable" decisions. As one said to me once "this wasn't why I wanted to be a Fireman".

[TeamsterDem]

108. Terrible choices are never easy or enjoyable

I feel sorry for everyone involved here including the young man and his family

[zipplewrath]

110. Likewise

I've heard some of these kinds of words from fireman. And they weren't even the person that caused the cars to crash. The worst is when they can't save a child. The self doubt and bewilderment is astounding. The pain can endure for years.

[TeamsterDem]

112. Don't I know it

My brother is a paramedic. The ending of a life is never in any way a good or pleasant thing, and people don't die like they do in movies.

All I meant when I responded with "justified" was NOT that everything is well in the world, just that legally this lady seems to have been justified (that reported facts don't appear to support a criminal charge).

[RebelOne]

109. I believe she was justified.

If someone pointed a gun at me and I had a gun in my pocket, you can be damned sure I would shoot first before being shot.