Vegetarians less healthy than omnivores

[B2G]

Last edited Thu Apr 3, 2014, 04:57 PM - Edit history (1)

Interesting...


Study: Vegetarians Less Healthy, Lower Quality Of Life Than Meat-Eaters

ATLANTA (CBS ATLANTA) – Vegetarians may have a lower BMI and drink alcohol sparingly, but vegetarian diets are tied to generally poorer health, poorer quality of life and a higher need for health care than their meat-eating counterparts.

A new study from the Medical University of Graz in Austria finds that vegetarians are more physically active, drink less alcohol and smoke less tobacco than those who consume meat in their diets. Vegetarians also have a higher socioeconomic status and a lower body mass index. But the vegetarian diet — characterized by a low consumption of saturated fats and cholesterol that includes increased intake of fruits, vegetables and whole-grain products — carries elevated risks of cancer, allergies and mental health disorders.

Vegetarians were twice as likely to have allergies, a 50 percent increase in heart attacks and a 50 percent increase in incidences of cancer.

The cross-sectional study from Austrian Health Interview Survey data and published in PLos One examined participants dietary habits, demographic characteristics and general lifestyle differences.

http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2014/04/01/study-vegetarians-less-healthy-lower-quality-of-life-than-meat-eaters/

OKOK. Updated to omnivores. Lol.

[whatchamacallit]

1. Lol

[1000words]

2. uh oh ...

<==== meatcorn

[Xyzse]

10. Uhhh...

<===Popcorn Shrimp!

[1000words]

14. Nice!

[Aerows]

20. DUzy!

[onehandle]

3. A lot of vegetarians start out with problems. Nothing in this study connects the diet itself. nt

[tridim]

30. If you don't get enough saturated fat in your diet, you have a major dietary problem.

Doesn't matter if you're a vegetarian or not, you need cholesterol in your blood to live.

[onehandle]

31. Vegetarian diets can be pretty high in fat and cholesterol if you are not careful.

It's Vegans that are more likely to be necessary fats deficient.

[thecrow]

67. ....and don't forget the pesticides.

Not every vegetarian is an organic vegetarian.

[lostincalifornia]

129. Actually the problem is not fats or cholesterol, it is the types of fats and LDL verses HdL. Sugar

And carbs are a huge problem, and contribute to ver weight and generally poor Heath no matter whether vegetarian or omnivore.

[kestrel91316]

81. Your body makes its own cholesterol. There is no dietary requirement for it.

I'm pretty sure you don't require saturated fats, but it's hard to formulate a diet completely lacking in them anyway. IIRC many plant oils contain small amounts of saturated fats.

[SheilaT]

101. And salt.

[el_bryanto]

4. Do they have allergies because they are eating fruits and vegetables?

Or do their allergies make them more aware of their bodies so they decide to be vegetarian?

Bryant

[cthulu2016]

5. Omnivores, not carnivores. Human carnivores are quite rare.

[Throd]

27. I qualify.

[nomorenomore08]

122. Unless you're a hunter-gatherer, I rather doubt that...

[upaloopa]

6. All I have to say is

This must be brought to you by the pork producers or something.
I am a vegetarian, quite happy generally, never ill, am 68 years old, and watch my meat eating family and friends fight colon cancer, heart trouble, diabetes, high cholesterol and high blood pressure while constantly looking for a miracle diet that will let them eat steak and drink wine and get healthier.

[tolkien90]

13. Anecdotal evidence

The study does suggest eating meat is good for you. It makes sense, anyway, as we evolved to do it.

Rest assured, there are plenty of people eating meat and not getting sick. Moreso than vegetarians, it would seem.

[upaloopa]

22. You have to live with your choices.

You eat meat and I won't. What happens happens.
There is a study that will prove any thing you need to prove.

[bluestate10]

70. The study may have looked at meat eaters that have balanced diets.

Many people have diets that are around 30-40% meat.

[upaloopa]

110. The study could also be an April fools joke look ate the date

[lostincalifornia]

130. Wrong. Any vegetarian or omnivore that eat the right fats, consumes less carbs and sugars, and

Exercises are healthier.

This so called study is very flawed and makes some incorrect assertions that vegetarians are less active than omnivores. Just the statement that vegetarians are from higher income only point out that they are not focused on the world but only a subset in a specific area

[Zorra]

24. +1 "This message brought to you by the makers of Vienna Sausages."

Last edited Sun Apr 6, 2014, 09:19 PM - Edit history (1)

[VanillaRhapsody]

54. That's not meat....that's meat "by-products"

It's meat aligned...

[Logical]

88. LOL, Yes, your single case proves it. Like the smokers who live to 100! LOL, science is hard! nt

[nomorenomore08]

123. There are healthy vegetarians/vegans and unhealthy ones. There are healthy and unhealthy omnis.

My take-away is that vegetarianism, while potentially beneficial to health in many respects, is not a cure-all.

And I speak as someone who's substantially cut back on his meat (especially red meat) consumption.

[lostincalifornia]

131. Absolutely, and guess what,there are healthy and unhealthy omnivores also.

[mike_c]

7. despite there being some legitimate data interpretation questions in this thread...

...I'm ordering a deep fried corn dog for lunch, dammit! I'm eagerly awaiting those magic words from my cardiologist: "Vegetarian? No? Good, we can eliminate that risk factor!"

[whatchamacallit]

32. I don't believe you'll be hearing those words anytime soon

For a short period I had an elevated heart rate. At the time I asked two separate doctors if my plant-based diet could be potentially giving me heart issues. They both pretty much laughed in my face.

[lostincalifornia]

132. A lot of folks both vegetarians and non vegetarians experiences bouts of tachycardia. It

Could be hereditary, other issues, or simply normal, it depends

[Warpy]

136. Diet isn't that powerful

Only about 10% of your total cholesterol load is diet related. We'd die without cholesterol, so that's a good thing.

Some people feel lousy on a plant based diet. Some people feel heavy and logy on a meat diet. People need to listen to their bodies and eat accordingly.

There are a lot of possible problems that can contribute to tachycardia, from bursts of Atrial fibrillation or flutter to positional orthostatic tachycardia syndrome.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

79. There are vegie corn dogs

https://www.morningstarfarms.com/products/veggie-dogs/mini-veggie-corn-dogs

[GoCubsGo]

84. They're pretty good, too. n/t

[jberryhill]

93. Here's what I don't get

I'll pick up the occasional processed non-meat food like that, since I aim to keep my meat consumption down to a relatively low leve, but I'm not particularly obsessive about it.

But, really? After all the ranting about "processed foods", I'm not particularly persuaded that these sorts of prepared and packaged things are all that different from other sorts of snack foods.

I mean, hey, you can go vegetarian on Pop-Tarts, potato chips and Coca-Cola too.

No, I'm not saying that those things are comparable... just exaggerating a bit for rhetorical purposes.

[snooper2]

111. ROFLMAO I wonder just what processing it takes to make that LOL

[dionysus]

137. i buy those all the time, they are amazing! as well as grillers prime. boca for the chikn patties

drooool.

[pipoman]

150. It's crap like this that makes vegetarian diets not

Uniformly healthy, imo..I find it ironic that people are so concerned about gmo's but will eat crap like this. ..

[dionysus]

166. hey, as long as one isn't pounding corn dogs daily, what's wrong with a treat now and again?

[upaloopa]

109. You eat your stuff I'll eat mine.

I don't give a shit what you eat

[nomorenomore08]

125. +1

There are better things to be concerned about than other people's food choices.

[lostincalifornia]

133. Exactly

[Cali_Democrat]

8. Humans are omnivores by nature. It's an evolution thing. The human body needs meat. nt

[yellowcanine]

40. Eh. Not quite - omnivores, yes. Meat (at least red meat), not so much.

It was more Gatherer-Hunters than the other way around. The gathering may have included insects, bird eggs, snails, and the occasional small mammal or bird but actual red meat in quantity was generally more of a party thing when the hunters brought a kill home, which could be quite infrequent. They had few good ways to keep it so it was basically party time and everyone gorged themselves silly and washed it down with their favorite home brew. Except in a few places such as Arctic regions, hunting and eating of the kill was more of a social thing than a dietary requirement.

Vegetarians do fine without meat. Beans and other legumes combined with a grain will provide enough protein for good health. If people are eating balanced diets in moderation and getting enough exercise whether they have meat in their diet or not ls not much of a factor. The story is an April Fool's joke.

[Art_from_Ark]

100. Never trust a story of this nature

that is dated April 1.

[nomorenomore08]

127. We are omnivores by nature, but we can survive without meat (or other animal products).

I don't choose that for myself, and I wouldn't say that a vegetarian or vegan diet is nutritionally optimal for all humans - there's just too much variation from person to person - but the idea that we need meat is an oversimplification at best.

Natalie Merchant, for instance, had to eat meat during her pregnancy for nutritional reasons, but went back to vegetarianism afterwards. It's simply a personal choice, and no more unhealthy than many other choices people make.

[BainsBane]

9. I find this difficult to believe

and I am no vegetarian.

[Maedhros]

61. My understanding has always been that vegetarianism (and especially veganism)

requires some real effort with regard to making sure one gets enough protein, such as making sure one's diet includes sufficient legumes.

If one is casually vegetarian there are certainly immediate benefits - lower cholesterol, for one - but there can be some hidden detriments.

[kestrel91316]

83. Most Americans eat WAAAAYYYY too much protein. It's easy to get enough protein in a vegetarian

diet.

You show me an American vegetarian with kwashiorkor and we can have a little more discussion.

[Maedhros]

86. I'm not knocking vegetarianism, just wondering aloud (so to speak). [n/t]

[DebJ]

94. I had a friend in high school whose epileptic episodes were triggered because she wasn't getting

the right proteins / B vitamins in her diet. Her Dad took her through a meat-packing/slaughtering plant when she was 10 and she found it difficult to eat meat after that, and I suppose her Mom didn't know how (or even that she should) to find a way to balance her diet. I found out about her condition when I worked at a Baskin-Robbins with her. I went to the backroom and watched in horror as several other employees stepped over her prone body as if she was a box or some other inanimate object. They said "You'll get used to it". (Her epileptic fits left her completely still, in fact, she appeared dead.)

We became really close friends later, and she explained that every time she stopped eating meat, her episodes would start again.

My Dad has been vegetarian for most, but not all of his life. His cholesterol is hideous.... found out in his 70s he'd apparently had some form of hepatitis in his very much younger years and his liver was the problem. Also, the man down's peanut butter by the gallon.

[dionysus]

138. not an expert on siezures, but after my kitteh has them, he is paralyzed for several minutes after

he has one, too. might be the same with humans. people stepping over her body is just.. inhumane...

[DebJ]

147. To be fair, they still had work that needed to be done and she was very close to a doorway

between the front and back of the house. Her father had been called. But the cavalier air
as they walked over her was what struck me as out of place............... years later I had
someone working for me who had a seizure or two on the job, and it was handled completely
differently. In the first instance, everyone was a teenager, but somehow that seems to me
something more prone to creating melodrama than apathy. Cognitive dissonance for me.

[darkangel218]

11. Less healthy than carnivores?

I have yet to see a human entirely carnivore.

Maybe you meant omnivore?

[Aerows]

17. I'm a dedicated omnivore

I love vegetables, and tasty meats

[darkangel218]

23. Me two, Aerows!

Humans are omnivorous, we need proteins!! Tofu is not gonna do it for me, ever.

[Aerows]

50. OMG, da

The girlfriend that was a vegan I referred to later in the thread made some sort of thing that was, and I shit you not, "pork chops" made out of some sort of a box dinner with barbecue sauce and peanut butter.

Yes, that was actually made for dinner for me. I gamely tried it, and to this day wonder why in the heck I thought it was going to be edible.

[suffragette]

78. I so get this

I enjoy pâté and I enjoy nuts. But one time I tried a nut 'pâté' at a vegetarian restaurant and I did not enjoy that. I should have had the grilled veggies. I like those as much as I like meat or fish. I just don't like the faux meat concoctions.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

12. 25+ year vegetarian here.

Yes, I have a lot of allergies, have long before I became a vegetarian. Two of the things I am most allergic to? Red meat and dairy products.

[Aerows]

15. I had a girlfriend that was a vegan

and she was basically skin and bone. I'm an omnivore, and if it weren't for dairy products, I'd probably wither away to nothing. I'm 5'3 and 105 lbs, and can still shop in the little girls department at 41.

She was one of the most unhealthy human beings I've ever met. She was advised *strongly* by a doctor to start consuming dairy products and meat lest her muscles shrink even more than they had. She went whack-a-doodle-do and moved to LA, so I have no idea if she ever took the physician's advice.

[DebJ]

95. My parents belong to a religion wherein some segments of it push the vegan diet really hard.

As in, you are going to burn in hell if you eat meat, or eggs, or drink milk.
They gave my parents (who are vegetarian, but not vegan) a video with two living skeletons promoting the 'healthy' vegan diet. I mean, I've seen Zombies that looked healthier. It was actually painful to look at these people.

One pastor really pushed this issue so hard, he would stop by my parents' house to berate my mother and be sure she knew she was going to hell.... on a regular basis, he did this. Plus he would do that at services every week.

I finally told her to ask him why Jesus fed the multitudes with fish. Don't know if she ever did, but thank God that crackpot left her church. (And the formal church doctrine does not insist on vegetarian, much less vegan).

I will never forget the sight of those two stick creatures on video. It was positively painful. Reminded me of the Ethiopian children some decades ago.

[Yo_Mama]

116. You can eat an unhealthy vegetarian diet or be genetically unable to handle plant oils well.

The optimal diet varies between individuals. Some people have genes that will let them get high lipids or even worse from plants (sterol absorption).
http://www.bostonheartdiagnostics.com/science_portfolio_cholesterol_balance_test.php

http://atvb.ahajournals.org/content/23/8/1314.full

When treating patients individually, the results of the traditional cholesterol lowering regime (low sat. fat intake and exercise) vary. There is a group that correlates well with family histories strongly positive for arthritis, heart disease and diabetes. This group will experience raised lipid levels if you put them on a traditional lipid-lowering regime. To actually lower their lipids, you have to do the reverse. A lot of them have mutations that make them poor utilizers of Vitamin B, and they appear to have a range of mutations that affect their starving metabolism and produce extensive vasoconstriction when they are eating a "sparse" diet. Their livers then start manufacturing triglycerides and their serum cholesterol and triglyceride levels rise.

It is not simple, and the genetic variations are extensive enough that the right diet is not the same for everyone. Some will reverse metabolic syndrome only with high protein diets and extensive vitamin and mineral supplementation. They can be healthy, but they can't eat like vegetarians and be healthy.

There is an underdiagnosed disorder called variously sitosterolemia or phytosterolemia in which certain people have gene mutations that cause them not to be able to eliminate plant sterols:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sitosterolemia

The extreme form is obvious, but the less extreme form is not. For these people, a diet high in plant oils causes real problems:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_xanthoma_variants_associated_with_hyperlipoproteinemia_subtypes

These people get hyperlipidemia from plant oils followed by chunks of fats deposited in various areas, including tendons. The major treatment is a low-plant food diet plus Zetia (ezetimibe). This reverses the cause. There seem to be a lot of people with a milder form of this, and for them standard dietary prescriptions are actively harmful and a vegetarian diet is slow suicide.

[Aerows]

117. I plain don't feel well

if I don't eat some meat. I love vegetables, but too many carbs and I feel like crap. Add in the fact that I am prone to anemia, and the vegetarian or vegan lifestyle does not suit me AT ALL.

[Yo_Mama]

120. Oh, yeah. Anemia.

That's another one.

I don't know why people think that everyone's alike - they are NOT. People should eat the right diet - for THEMSELVES.

[Aerows]

124. Exactly my thought

if a diet suits you, you feel healthy and enjoy it, what does it matter if you eat meat, drink milk or eat vegetables (or whatever you eat that makes you feel good). I eat a lot of salads, beans and rice, drink a lot of milk, and yes, I eat meat and refuse to apologize for it. I'm trying to grow some of my own vegetables from heirloom seeds, so I don't need to be schooled on "organic eating".

[dionysus]

139. i am a meat eater as well, but FYI, vegetables like brocolli have tons of iron. if you know what

you're doing, you can get enough minerals and protein out of vegetables and legumes.

too boring of a diet for me though.

[nationalize the fed]

16. How much money does a study cost?

Randy Alvarez interviews 72 year old Vegan Mimi Kirk. She has been voted the hottest vegan over 50 alive! She is a raw food author and is motivating everyone she meets.

[DebJ]

96. Do you have a picture of her in short sleeves? n/t

[sufrommich]

18. What a carnivore may look like.....

[mnhtnbb]

19. The question obviously is how long someone has been a vegetarian and the motivation for it.

We have a friend who turned to a plant based diet entirely--after her husband
was diagnosed with esophageal cancer. But she's 60 years old and although
she'll say she doesn't eat meat, she did for most of her life.

[Warpy]

21. Oh, BALLS! Here we go again.

Sorry folks but a real medical study of Seventh Day Adventists (pious veg heads who think cheating at McD's will send them to hell) showed them with much lower levels of a lot of the deadly diseases of the cardiovascular system, the main killers out there.

Interviewing people about how they feel just doesn't compare, sad to say.

In addition, some of them are going to be like Clinton, already ill when they changed their diets.

Junk food vegetarians who live on packaged crap with no regard to nutrition are going to be in wretched health just like people who are heavy meat eaters. Healthy vegetarians like the Seventh Day Adventist folks who keep an eye on nutrition are likely to be healthier.

Moderation is key: Eat food, mostly plants, and not too much.

[Bluenorthwest]

33. Only about 35% of Adventists are vegetarian, but almost none smoke or

drink. So there's that.

[LeftyMom]

92. A lot of diet studies account for that by comparing veg. Adventists against Mormons.

That way they mostly eliminate the lifestyle factors.

[KT2000]

25. it appears the vegetarian diet

described in this article is ripe for causing inflammation - high in carbs and low in fats.
I don't know if all vegetarians go that route though.
Meat may not be the culprit here.

[whatchamacallit]

42. True

That's a common pitfall for some vegans/vegetarians. I avoid most processed foods, wheat and sugar too.

[frazzled]

62. A lot of vegetarians I've known don't really eat that many vegetables

Especially the younger ones. They may grow into better habits over time. My daughter has been a vegetarian since she was a child, and as a teenager we used to call her the "pizza-terian." Fortunately, she's a much more rounded diet now.

But I'm sometimes surprised at vegetarians I know who honestly don't even seem to like vegetables much (I adore them and eat them in abundance, even though I also eat meat in moderate quantities). You can't live off of pasta dishes for very long.

[dionysus]

140. yep. i've known a few cheese-atarians

[mattclearing]

114. Not to mention the fact that it's limited to Austria.

If the writer has to go all the way to Austria to find the answer they're looking for, and even then find no real detailed analysis, maybe truth isn't really the goal.

[LTX]

148. "All the way to Austria"?

The study was done by the Medical University of Graz in Austria. Consequently, it did not study people from Northeast Friendsville, Ohio (even though Northeast Friendsville is, as we all know, the actual center of the universe).

I'm willing to bet that people in Austria don't think of themselves as (x) miles away from civilization.

[mattclearing]

149. The OP article is from Atlanta. n/t

[LTX]

151. And here's the same study reported by the Times of India

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/science/Vegetarians-are-less-healthy-and-have-a-lower-quality-of-life-than-meat-eaters-scientists-say/articleshow/33225827.cms

I went all the way to the inter-tubes to find it.

[pipoman]

153. How is that different

Than the volume of articles about the US posted from the UK? Or the posting of studies from other countries that make the wire and end up in US press?

[mattclearing]

156. I don't object to distance reporting in general.

My point was that 13% of Anericans reportedly identify as vegetarian, but this study, which is presumably limited to Austrians eating Austrian food in Austria, is being reported without any apparent skepticism by a CBS outlet in Atlanta.

At least the article from India above raised the possibility that the study was meat industry propaganda, prompting one of the researchers to note that further study is needed. That's science. The article in the OP is basically fodder for confirmation bias.

[JI7]

26. there are lots of unhealthy foods vegetarians can eat like pasta, bread, sugar

they probably eat a lot of pasta and sweets and fried foods.

just because one is vegetarian doesn't mean they are eating healthy .

[RebelOne]

41. I am vegetarian and never eat fried foods

though I do love pasta. I love ice cream, but I buy the sugar-free Kroger brand. And if I do eat candy, I will only buy sugar-free. Reese's has a sugar-free version of the peanut butter cups that I love.

[pipoman]

154. I tend to believe in the possibility

That sugar substitutes are worse for non - diabetics than sugar in moderation.

[RebelOne]

171. I think you are wrong.

Type II diabetes runs in my mother's side and everyone had it when they reached their 6os and 70s. My sister is 66 now and has it. I have been avoiding sugar for a long time now. I had a blood test in February for a pre-op examination before my cataract surgery. My sugar was normal and I am 75 years old.

[pnwmom]

28. I think if this is true it may be because some vegetarians

don't eat as well as they should. They take a typical American diet and eliminate the meat -- without making an effort to balance the amino acids so they get enough protein, and without making sure they're getting enough iron and other elements that are easier to get if you eat meat.

I believe vegetarians can be as healthy as anyone else, but only if they do more than simply eliminate meat and fish from their diets. They have to make sure they're eating enough nuts, beans, etc. -- not just grains, fruits, and veggies.

[upaloopa]

57. Not really.

Last edited Fri Apr 4, 2014, 11:10 AM - Edit history (1)

You can get all the protein and iron you need with a vegetarian diet.
You wonder what cows eat?
Take a piece of chicken and put it in the ground. Put a tomato in the ground. Come in a while and see what you have. Tomatoes have life force dead meat doesn't.

[pnwmom]

68. What did I say that wasn't correct? I agree that you can get what you need from

a vegetarian diet. But only a GOOD vegetarian diet that includes all the amino acids -- not just those from grains and veggies. You need to eat things like nuts, beans, and tofu to balance the amino acids that come from grains.

And you need to make sure you're getting enough iron, b-12 and any other vitamins or minerals that aren't as easy to get in a vegetarian or vegan diet. It's all do-able, but it's not as simple as just eliminating meat and fish from a typical American diet.

[DebJ]

97. That's difficult if you are diabetic and a tall person with a large frame who requires

a lot of protein. I'm married to one. No, he's not vegetarian. I'd lose my mind if he was.
Or he would be eating 24/7. No way the tofu is going down that esophagus. Or any other manufactured
nastiness.

[pipoman]

155. Cattle have a completely different physiology

Than humans. Humans would wither and die on a cows diet.

[doxydad]

29. I knew it.

Betcha that's why I got these teeth, to tear apart meat. Pass the ribs.

[yellowcanine]

34. Really guys? Did no one look at the date on the article???????

News
Study: Vegetarians Less Healthy, Lower Quality Of Life Than Meat-Eaters
April 1, 2014 3:23 PM

[leftstreet]

37. LOL

good catch

[RebelOne]

44. Ditto. n/t

[snooper2]

112. not really LOL, just because it's April 1st doesn't mean you can't print an article

April 1st fail

[former9thward]

63. The study was published in February.

It is an actual study not a April Fools Joke.

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0088278&representation=PDF

[Glassunion]

35. Do vegitarians/vegans consume more GMO produce than the average omnivore?

[magical thyme]

36. There's lies, there's damn lies, and then there's statistics...

You cannot possibly draw any health conclusions from this survey. As other's have mentioned:

* nothing shows whether people were drawn to vegetarian diet due to existing illnesses
* nothing really compares their overall diets: were they ovo-lacto, vegan, macrobiotic, etc. Is there a subcategory that fared substantially worse, pulling there #s down.
* the only other data mentioned, beyond smoking and drinking, was vaccinations, which the vegetarian group had more people not getting.

Correlation does not equal causation.

[RebelOne]

38. That report is a bunch of bulls**t.

I am 75 years old and have been a vegetarian for over 16 years. My only problem is high blood pressure and it is genetic. Also diabetes is genetic in my family. But I just had some blood work taken and my sugar is normal.

[Peregrine Took]

39. I'm 70, I jog 25 miles a week and have been a veg since 1995. n/t

[countryjake]

43. Take extinction off your plate...

Eat less meat. Save more wildlife.

http://www.takeextinctionoffyourplate.com/

If being a vegetarian means that I am being more Earth-friendly, perhaps raising the quality of life of some endangered species or increasing the health of damaged, threatened habitats and reducing the need for health care that inevitably results from the severe effects of land, air, and water pollution, than that's just a little bit that I can do to try to help this planet survive.

It's a sacrifice I am more than willing to make.

[yellowcanine]

167. "If being a vegetarian means that I am being more Earth-friendly..."

Not necessarily. As with many things, it depends. Do you eat processed vegetarian foods, for example - veggie burgers? This study says you might as well eat a pork chop in terms of greenhouse gases.

http://eatdrinkbetter.com/2010/07/26/processed-vegetarian-foods-no-more-eco-friendly-than-meat/

Then there is the fact that people cannot digest cellulose so they cannot eat certain plants - grass for example. Yet a good portion of the earth's surface is grasslands and growing crops on the grasslands may not very environmentally friendly. There is a case to be made for inclusion of some animal agriculture in sustainable agricultural systems. Pretty good discussion here:

http://www.permaculture.co.uk/articles/meat-eating-vs-vegetarian-or-vegan-diets
http://www.chicagotribune.com/health/sns-rt-us-health-plant-dietbre917125-20130208,0,5875128.story

The happy medium may be a lactoovovegetarian diet.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/78/3/660S.full

But of course there is still the question of old animals and bull calves in a dairy system which could be utilized for meat with little additional environmental impact.

The take home message is that it is not a simple question.

[Avalux]

45. Ummm....this reads like vegetarians are a complete mess.

As if I'm going to start eating animals because a "cross-sectional" study says I'd be healthier. Can't imagine how though; I'm in fantastic health and have no complaints.

[dilby]

46. Just a note but a person can eat nothing but Junk Food and be a Vegetarian.

And a person can take their diet seriously and eat a healthy diet and be a vegetarian and be healthier than their cheeseburger eating omnivore counterpart. All diets can be healthy but it's up to the individual to take into consideration the products they consume, if you live off snickers bars, potato chips and been burritos yeah you are no better than someone who eats chicken nuggets and corn dogs.

[oldandhappy]

47. All of our bodies are different.

I have noticed things changing for me. Was a veg for 20 years and was tired all the time. Changed, and with a little meat, my body is stronger. Still eat lots and lots of veggies. And am glad to have a broad range of choices. And I have friends who are horrified at the thot of meat. No problem. We need to be aware of what works for each of us.

[leeroysphitz]

48. Omnivores FTW!

[dionysus]

49. that's odd. i did a research paper in college, and most heart disease and many types of cancers are

linked to eating a lot of meat(esp colon cancer).

when Asian countries began adopting the western style diet of a lot of red meat, their rates of heart disease skyrocketed.

FYI I say this as a meat eater.

[gulliver]

51. I'm vegetarian, but my microbiome isn't.

I don't eat hamburgers for myself.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

52. I think we are supposed to be omnivores. Maybe we shouldn't have so much fast food though nt

[upaloopa]

53. What does that mean?

Where is the great rule maker that tells us what we are supposed to be?
You choose for yourself and check out the results. You want to eat meat do so. Live with what ever the outcome is. I chose not to and live with the outcome which for me is not what this study says.

[dionysus]

141. i think because we have a combination of teeth for tearing (meat) and grinding (vegetable)

doesn't mean you *can't* be a vegetarian, we've just evolved as an omnivore species.

incisors and canine teeth (common for carnivore animals) for meat, molars for vegetables (like cows chewing grass).

[upaloopa]

158. I have never bought into that reasoning.

Maybe we are further evolving to the point we don't use those pointy teeth. Makes as much sense.

[dionysus]

163. i'm fine with whatever dietary choices people make for themselves.

I'd be a vegetarian myself if my love of steak and seafood wasn't so strong.

but I could never go vegan and give up milk and cheese.

[upaloopa]

165. Me too I don't tell people how or what to eat.

Friends and family do make comments on how I eat and I am use to it.
I have a small selection of things I eat. I am fine with that and I am generally more healthy than people who question what I eat.
I'd like to say "I'm not the one with clogged veins or I not the one with diabetes of I'm not the one who is grossly over weight" even though that describes the people who question my diet.

[Champion Jack]

55. Remember, nowhere ever in the history of mankind has .....

...anyone tried to make meat taste like Tofu..

[Nye Bevan]

56. Wow. My mother was correct. "Eat your meat!" (nt)

[Tom Rinaldo]

58. This may be a cheap shot but...

I suspect I would get ill also if I had to eat Austrian food without meat in it every meal. If their cuisine is anything like German food you have to take a lot of personal initiative to have any type of balanced vegetarian diet, especially one worth eating.

[Vattel]

59. Austrian vegetarians are huge consumers of pornography. So be careful what you feed an Austrian.

The authors of the study concede that poor health might be responsible for people adopting a vegetarian diet. This study doesn't show that a vegetarian diet is less healthy.

[MADem]

60. The first vegetarian I ever knew (and this was in the sixties) ended up in the hospital with

severe malnutrition. He ate all these nuts and seeds and veggies, but none of that "lacto-ovo-pisces" stuff...very hard core.

He's pushing seventy now and he eats meat. After he almost died he figured it wasn't for him.

[Number23]

77. I haven't known many veggies but every one of them I knew STAYED sick

One girl I knew had chronic lung and yeast infections. I mean she was sick ALL OF THE TIME. But she was tiny and a size 2 so you got the impression that she was going to stay a veggie because being small was far more important to her than anything else.

And one guy I knew that was a veggie pretty much was the same way. ALWAYS sick. A couple of his friends tried to slip him a pork chop as a joke/wake up call. He was not amused.

[NuclearDem]

64. I'll stick with my vegan diet.

Vegetarians and vegans can be unhealthy too if they eat the wrong things.

[RebelOne]

74. Ditto. I'll stick with my vegetarian diet. n/t

[dionysus]

142. i don't know how you can do wihout dairy\cheese man, i applaud you.

[NuclearDem]

159. Unsweetened almond milk and rice-based cheese substitutes.

I can't even taste the difference anymore.

[dionysus]

164. i thought almond milk was pretty tasty when i tried it. my vegan friend said the hardest part was

finding a decent cheese substitute.

[kwassa]

65. A single study means nothing. Nothing at all.

What is the weight of the total scientific evidence?

[idendoit]

66. Did you read the Medical University of Graz study?

From the intro: "Therefore the aim of this study was to investigate health differences between different dietary habit groups among Austrian adults." How many vegan Austrians in the audience? If so, how are you feeling?

[randome]

69. All things in moderation, including moderation.

Regimented extremes are usually not, on balance, for the good. Strict vegetarianism versus strict meat lovers: you're both wrong, IMO.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[flvegan]

71. LOL

I skipped to Page 6 of the PLos One study. The "potential limitations" is a good read.

1320 whole people in a country that has admittedly "rather sparse" research on nutrition.

Again, LOL. USA media does it wrong again.

[former9thward]

72. 1320 is very good statistically in a population of 8 million.

Most polls are less than that in this country of 315 million. Or do you discount polls when the results are something you don't like?

[flvegan]

73. To make a statement in absolution like that?

It's shit.

Nothing to do with the results and if I like them or not. Don't be so quick to be emotional about it.

[former9thward]

76. Emotional?

Hardly. You are the one is wound as tight as a drum.

[flvegan]

134. Not really, and with a grasp of the English language no less.

[dionysus]

143. no, you're clearly pissed off bad, insulting people like that.

i'll go nibble some cold cuts in your honor

[snooper2]

113. If you find the article making you angry, a big lobster tail can fix that!

( it says so in the article )

[yellowcanine]

168. Not necessarily; Depends on how the 1320 were selected.

This was a cross-sectional study, meaning there was no control of why people were vegetarians, for example. The authors admit that they cannot say whether people in the study were unhealthy because they are vegetarians or are vegetarians because they are unhealthy. In other words, many of the vegetarians in the study may have started out as meat eaters and switched to being vegetarian because they thought it might help deal with their health problems. This is a huge potential source of bias because healthy meat eaters are not likely to become vegetarians for health reasons.

[former9thward]

169. You are right but ...

the poster I was replying to seemed to be attacking the small number of 1320. I was just pointing out most polls use a similar number to determine attitudes of 300+ million people. I eat meat and eat vegetables so I have no dog in the fight. Most vegetarians I have known seemed to me to have health issues but maybe that is some psychological bias on my part.

[SoCalDem]

75. Humans are omnivores..Variety is the solution to health..n/t

[CFLDem]

80. We always knew the truth

but I doubt the religious adherents will listen.

[flamingdem]

82. I noticed that vegetarians are not aware they need more calcium

and often are very up on the latest bad thing for you, they HATE milk, but for some reason think cheese is okay...? Many good things have come out of vegetarianism but it's a bit more of an ideology than a truly logical, healthful way to eat.

[Flying Squirrel]

99. I'm a vegetarian and I drink milk.

You must be thinking of vegans? But they wouldn't be eating cheese either, so... I'm not sure where you're getting that vegetarians hate milk. Some of them might, but certainly not all.

[RebelOne]

118. I am vegetarian and eat dairy products.

It is vegans that do not consume any animal products. I love cheese, ice cream and milk. My reasoning is that at least the animal did not have to die for dairy products.

[a la izquierda]

85. I'll stick with my vegan diet.

We're all going to die of something.

[mucifer]

87. To quote Isaac Bashevis Singer a Yiddish writer and vegetarian

"I am not a vegetarian for my health, I am a vegetarian for the health of the chickens."

[yellowcanine]

170. Well, that is a fun quote but is an unborn chicken a healthy chicken?

Because if no one is eating chickens there won't be much demand for raising chickens. And if we are going to turn the chickens loose into the woods the foxes would eat them. Still, it is a nice sound bite.

[Marrah_G]

89. I think either diet choice is fine

Whether or not someone is healthy depends on the food choices they are making. You can have people on either side making awful choices or great choices. Perhaps the issue comes when people choose a vegetarian diet without putting in the time to educate themselves to make sure they have a balanced diet. And maybe people chose vegetarian diets because of those initial health problems rather then the diet creating those health problems.

[fujiyama]

90. I think there are too many variables to consider

to make a conclusive argument as to whether a vegetarian diet is healthier or less healthy one that includes meat.

Vegetarian is also a broad term. If you're vegetarian and eating mostly processed foods, very starchy foods, and poorer quality foods overall, then yes, your diet is certainly less healthy than an omnivore eating a more balanced diet consisting of lean meats, fish, and veggies as well. French fries are technically vegetarian, but I wouldn't consider it part of a healthy, balanced diet.

All my grandparents were vegetarian and lived past 80. My great grand-mother lived past 100 on a vegetarian diet. But I have plenty of other family members that are diabetic. Then again, those of South Asian ethnicity are genetically predisposed to some of these things. My personal guess is that many of the strains of wheat over the last half century aren't nearly as easily digestible and I don't think we have a full understanding of the effects GMOs may have on the body (I'm not a conspiracy theorist about, I just think the testing has been inadequate).

[DebJ]

98. Yes, the answer is a balanced diet, whether that be vegetarian or omnivore. n/t

[JoeyT]

91. You can be a vegetarian while eating nothing but Mountain Dew and Snickers. n/t

[SheilaT]

102. Humans evolved as omnivores

who cooked their food.

I also think that a huge problem is that many people eat a lot of crap. They consume various pre-packaged junk of many kinds.

Me, I happily eat meat and lots of other stuff, but I mostly prepare much of my own food. Okay, so I don't grow the wheat that I then grind into flour, and I don't raise the chickens that lay the eggs, but I do a veggie stir-fry to go along with the teriyaki pork chops I grill, and I make my own pizza, and sometimes I use the bread machine to bake my own bread, although not recently.

I also notice that the vast majority of people consume sugar water of some kind -- meaning soft drinks that are either sugared or artificially sweetened, and I wonder if any diet studies account for that.

There are so many things like that there are so ubiquitous that I wonder if they are actually controlled for in these sorts of studies.

How many of you ever have cake or brownies not made from a mix? I bake those from scratch and bring them to work to share as I live alone, and it's honestly embarrassing to me how much I'm praised for my baking. It is so clear that so many have NEVER had anything not from a mix that I wonder about how much these things ultimately affect health.

[dionysus]

144. teriyaki pork chops ... now i am starving..

[littlewolf]

103. I am about to tell a joke ... so please do not get offended by it.

Vegetarian - old Indian word meaning bad hunter.
this ends my joke.

[Niceguy1]

104. sounds about right

Last edited Fri Apr 4, 2014, 09:45 AM - Edit history (1)

I have a family member that lives the vegetarian lifestyle, correctly I might add.

The only time she has a good healthy skin tone is when
she manages to eat some meat.

The human body is designed to eat meat, too. Sure you can get all of the major nutrients elsewhere, but not the micro nutrients..and not in the correct porportions found in meat that facilitates optimal aborbtion and utilization in the body.

[rusty fender]

105. I've been a vegetarian for 36 years

I'm pretty healthy. I eat everything that omnivores eat except meat, fish, and fowl. I don't begrudge anyone eating what works for them.

[justiceischeap]

106. I've been veg since I was 16 (give or take some meat eating in between)

And I'm overweight and have high cholesterol (probably because I smoke). I'm not constantly at the doctor, and even though I smoke, people can't believe I'm actually 43. I recently had my heart tested (stress test) and all was good. For someone who has smoked since the age of 11 or 12, my lungs are clear. So, I'm the antithesis to this "study." Oh, and I DO suffer from moderate depression but that started long before I went vegetarian. Also, I visit the doctor sparingly. It took me months while I was sick with bronchitis to finally go to the doctor. It took me close to a year to finally go to a doctor (an ER visit forced it) for my gall bladder.

Also, people are prone to familial health issues no matter their diet. I'm prone to the following diseases in my family:

Cancer, heart disease, Parkinsons, high cholesterol, diabetes, high blood pressure (though mine runs on the low scale), depression, migraines. These were all in my family tree before going veg. I wonder if the study took that into consideration and how that factors into their results.

[Dorian Gray]

107. I think it's time

for my pork belly wrapped in bacon friend in duck fat dinner!

Obviously, this would depend on the diet. Any meat eater or vegetarian who eats a highly processed food diet will be unhealthy. Anybody who eats a well balanced diet with protein, healthy fats, and loads of fruits and veggies with high fiber grain? Probably will be healthier.

[IronLionZion]

108. Not if you eat a bunch of doughnuts and fries

meat isn't the problem.

I think anyone would benefit from a balanced diverse diet of natural whole foods with lots of nutrients, and less calories and fat and sugar and processed junk.

I like meat, and veggies, and fruits, and whole grains, and chocolate.

[dionysus]

145. i hear chocolate, as well as being tasty, has loads of antioxidants, which are supposed to be good.

[RawFoodGuy]

115. http://www.theveganrd.com/2014/04/are-vegetarians-less-healthy-than-meat-eaters.html

"new research in ... the journal PLoS One. The study compared self-reported health among 1,320 subjects who were divided into groups according to the type of diet they consumed. Although the media jumped all over it, there has been plenty of more thoughtful discussion among nutrition experts about the shortcomings of this research.
... Here are some of the problems that have been noted.

* It’s a cross-sectional study. That means it looked at habits and disease rates at one point in time. We don’t know how long any of the subjects were following their diet or why. Many people who go vegetarian do so because they are experiencing health problems.
* The meat-eaters in this study... were divided into three groups according to whether they ate lots of fruits and vegetables and whether they were high or low meat consumers. Vegans, vegetarians and pesco-vegetarians, on the other hand, were all lumped into one group. So we get a little bit of insight about what type of diet the omnivores were eating, but none at all about the diverse habits among vegetarians.
* The subjects were simply asked what dietary group they belonged to, and they were not given any clear guidelines about this. That is, they could simply declare themselves to be meat-eaters who eat a lot of fruits and vegetables. Since there was no actual dietary assessment, there was no way to know what these subjects were really eating.

... Paul Appleby, who is the senior statistician for the EPIC-Oxford study and who knows everything in the world about study design, commented that it was possible that vegetarians were being compared to subjects who were a few years younger ...

.... this was actually their second study on the health of vegetarians. Their first study came to completely different conclusions. That research gathered data .... found better self-reported health among the vegetarians as well as the omnivores who ate lots of fruits and vegetables. In fact, they concluded that public health measures are needed to reduce the health risks associated with “carnivorous” diets.

The study that found poorer health among vegetarians used a subset of the same study population. The subset was predominantly female and nearly half of them were under the age of 30. We can’t extrapolate these findings to the vegetarian population at large.

Finally, while the media like to jump all over provocative studies, no single study provides definitive answers about diet and health. When we look at the research as a whole, it seems pretty clear that people who eat plant-based diets, including vegetarians and vegans, have some health advantages regarding chronic disease. At the very least, we seem to have lower risks for hypertension and diabetes. And as long as we are eating a well-balanced diet, there is no reason to believe that vegetarians are at a disadvantage."

[pink-o]

119. There are few people around who've been vegetarian continuously longer than I

I became veggie in1977, at 22. I have not eaten anything alive--beef, pork, chicken or fish--since then.

I can't comment on anyone else's diet, but since I've had so many years to tweak my own, I can only say this article is crap. Yes, we've evolved as omnivores, but if you wanna use the caveman concept to validate the mutated animals we eat today, that isn't gonna fly. The factory farms, the antibiotics and hormones, the genetic inbreeding to bring out profitable traits--well our ancestors never encountered that in their hunting-gathering. And yes, I know veggies have been changed as well, but being simpler life-forms it's easier to find those without chemicals.

I don't think one can use me as an example for a large study, but I have no health issues. No high blood pressure no cholesterol or diabetes, I'm 6'1" and weigh 150 (I'm a woman, so don't freak out). I have no bone density problems, no aches or pains or arthritis or ANY problems that a 59 year old might encounter. My energy level is exactly the same as it's been for the last 40 years.

I can put my great health down to good genetics (which I also have) but I really believe my diet has been a huge contributor. All I can say is, it works for me!

[nomorenomore08]

121. You can get all the nutrients you need from a vegetarian or vegan diet, but it often requires more

careful meal planning, and some people do end up needing supplements (usually B-12).

I'm an "omni" but I've cut my red meat consumption to once a week or less, and I eat a good number of vegetarian meals. Better for me and better for the environment as well.

[MillennialDem]

126. Duh we're designed to be omnivores. And low fat meat is very very healthy

[lostincalifornia]

128. What a bullshit study. How about vegetarians who are active, who don't load up on carbs, and drink

Diet sodas. How about the studies that have shown a vegetarian diet reduces a risk of prostate and other cancers. How about people who consume red meat are more prone to cancers and other diseases.

How about hereditary considerations, are they factored in.

The problem isn't cholesterol or fats, it is the right type of fats and cholesterol, Hdl verses LDL

It is inflammation and a whole list of other factors including consumption of excessive sugars

and I will bet that anyone no matter whether omnivore or vegetarian, who reduces carb intake, sugar consumption, and increase in exercise will be more healthy

Wonder which industry was behind this study.

[dionysus]

146. i know.. heart disease and cancers like colon cancer don't happen to vegetarians much.

[veganlush]

135. all but 0.2% of the "vegetarians" in the study

ate fish, milk , eggs, cheese etc! Bogus study

[stillwaiting]

157. +1 LMAO. nt

[CreekDog]

152. well i guess you don't want to discuss the topic

[rrneck]

160. If you want to get the greatest benefits from eating meat

chase it down with a pointed stick before you prepare it for dinner.

[Beacool]

161. I'm an omnivore, but I'm not sure that I buy their conclusions.

In my many travels I have observed people eat all sorts of food items. Aside from moderation, I think that the key to a healthy lifestyle is eating foods that are not overly processed and loaded with chemicals.

For example, I travel to Argentina quite often. They are arguably the #1 beef producers of the world. Their cattle graze in huge savannas called pampas. They have been raising "free range" cattle for centuries. They don't inject their beef with hormones and feed them a high grain diet. The result is healthier cattle and delicious tasting beef. Although people have somewhat cut down on their beef consumption, they still eat more of it than in other countries. They are not keeling over at a faster rate than those who eat less beef.

Have you ever noticed that in many countries food tastes more flavorful? Meaning, chicken tastes more like chicken should, ditto for vegetables and fruits. It's the way they are raised and grown. We put so much crap into animals and our fertilizers. I think that is what's affecting our health.

[ladyVet]

172. I agree: less processing and chemicals is best.

Whatever path one chooses, being balanced and avoiding chemicals/hormones/pesticides is best.

I was advised many years ago to be a vegetarian (I was maybe five pounds overweight, but was in the military and had a very strict range), tried it and finally lost enough weight to hit my physical maximum. Years later, I got fat and tried again, and managed to stick with it for a year. During that year, I gained sixty pounds and started feeling the effects of arthritis, tendonitis, carpal tunnel syndrome and bursitis.

Now I'm going back to low-carbing. It works for me; the first time, I felt great physically and mentally. I'm looking forward to that, when I get my carbs low enough.

I cook most everything from scratch, and avoid processed foods, chemicals and other nasty stuff as much as humanly possible. I've reduced the amount of corn my family eats. We like lots of veggies!

Like with most things, not everything works for everyone. Do what you feel is best for yourself, and let the rest of the world do the same.

[AcertainLiz]

162. Well, we're naturally omnivores

So thus it's obviously the better diet.