Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
Tue Mar 27, 2012, 03:22 AM Mar 2012

Zimmerman injured? I call BS

OK, let's examine the scenario. Let us say Trayvon had managed to injure Zimmerman (man, guess he had steroids in the skittles.) Let's say Zimmerman did get his nose busted, and was bleeding.

Now, anytimes someone is injured at a scene, the police offer to get the ambulance, why?

Because people have bled to death after what seemed like a not so serious injury, and then the loving relatives S-U-E. This is especially true in Florida, where ambulance chasing lawyers grow like weeds, and advertise heavily. This is true even in fender benders. People can refuse, of course.

But, who is to say that should have been Zimmerman's call to make. Even if you plead self defense, you still have to be tiried by a jury, which means that until he at the very least made bail, he was supposed to be in CUSTODY. Usually when someone injured is in custody, they get treated, even if they are handcuffed to the f---ing gourney. They can scream "I don't want no f--Ing doctor" til the cows come home, and the PD will simply make sure they see the doctor, not because they are kind, but to COVER THEIR ASSETS.

Of course,none of this happened, and if it did, it sure as hell was not documented, which means, in that fact alone, the sanford PD violated procedure, and opened themslves up to a lawsuit. There is nothing stopping Zimmerman can sayign he has "headaches" now, and knowing Florida, there would be many lawyers foaming at the mouth to suesaying that this guy is messed up for life because they did not offer him the ambulance.

50 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Zimmerman injured? I call BS (Original Post) DonCoquixote Mar 2012 OP
i said if this had happened they would either be on TV and or showing Pics of his injuries JI7 Mar 2012 #1
I agree.... FarPoint Mar 2012 #2
another agreement rufus dog Mar 2012 #35
Injury is visible on back of George Zimmerman's head in the police video (for about two seconds) Jenab6 Mar 2012 #3
I was an ER nurse,and I call BullSh!T w8liftinglady Mar 2012 #4
Welcome to DU, first. 99Forever Mar 2012 #5
This Catherina Mar 2012 #6
Let's see how long a white supremacist lasts on DU... The Velveteen Ocelot Mar 2012 #13
Disgusting racism Catherina Mar 2012 #15
He's TOSed now. Thank you MIRT Catherina Mar 2012 #26
Good. The Velveteen Ocelot Mar 2012 #27
I was so disgusted, I pm'd Skinner Catherina Mar 2012 #28
Thanks for your work to inform us ornotna Mar 2012 #46
Thank you for handling this as swiftly as you did! Catherina Apr 2012 #49
my bet is about as long as an intelligent poster would rbrnmw Mar 2012 #45
& birther marzipanni Mar 2012 #17
Wow, disturbing. All of that crap reeks to high heaven. PotatoChip Mar 2012 #19
It gets worse on the sites with no restraints Catherina Mar 2012 #25
Very helpful directory link you provide there. Thanks! Lost-in-FL Mar 2012 #29
You're very welcome Catherina Mar 2012 #34
I had no idea you could look someone up on Wiki.. dixiegrrrrl Mar 2012 #31
his comment was reposted on racist sites Catherina Mar 2012 #39
You did some really good research on this person. Thank you. uppityperson Mar 2012 #41
shadow.... enhanced! Sorry, but the rest of the video does not support this conclusion fascisthunter Mar 2012 #7
Please answer this DonCoquixote Mar 2012 #8
Exactly!!!! pipi_k Mar 2012 #21
No, it's not. Iggo Mar 2012 #9
Thank you for your concern. nt Lost-in-FL Mar 2012 #11
Really in 2.5 seconds you could see a wound like that LynneSin Mar 2012 #12
You're lying to yourself. The rest of us aren't buying it. Scuba Mar 2012 #14
Is this you? Gold Metal Flake Mar 2012 #16
I didn't know they allowed patients access to the internet at the asylum. edbermac Mar 2012 #22
So, are you Jenab6 the bigot, or did you somehow think his moniker would give you some cred on DU? siligut Mar 2012 #23
This message was self-deleted by its author LanternWaste Mar 2012 #24
As a former medic nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #30
I've seen it. It's a scratch and does not warrent deadly force... cynatnite Mar 2012 #32
........ Angry Dragon Mar 2012 #33
I think you are talking about the Photoshop-job made by the conservative Daily Caller website Justice4allofus Mar 2012 #36
Nice smack down DUers! Lone_Star_Dem Mar 2012 #37
The "gash" invented by the Daily Caller's silly "enhancement" alcibiades_mystery Mar 2012 #40
LOL. Welcome to Truthville Jenab6 BeHereNow Apr 2012 #50
If Zimmerman was injured on that attack then I'm next month's playboy centerfold LynneSin Mar 2012 #10
Your post is useless without your centerfold pictures. edbermac Mar 2012 #20
One thing I discovered pipi_k Mar 2012 #18
Scalp wounds do bleed like mad. Lone_Star_Dem Mar 2012 #38
Trust me, as a medic I knew, head wound nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #43
A tough little fighter can often beat a much bigger less experienced fighter ... spin Mar 2012 #42
Here is the key DonCoquixote Mar 2012 #44
I was watching a program on CNN tonight where Curtis Sliwa was asked ... spin Mar 2012 #47
Hell yes DonCoquixote Mar 2012 #48

JI7

(89,250 posts)
1. i said if this had happened they would either be on TV and or showing Pics of his injuries
Tue Mar 27, 2012, 03:48 AM
Mar 2012

they are throwing everything out there including going after Trayvon personally .

even if zimmerman dind't want to speak they could have him sit with his shitty ass lawyer with some shitty at reporter who wouldn't ask the tough questions that LAwrence would ask .

any "injuries" i see now i would be suspicious of and guess they were self inflicted or fake.

FarPoint

(12,393 posts)
2. I agree....
Tue Mar 27, 2012, 06:31 AM
Mar 2012

Someone mentioned also yesterday that the EMS would of made note of his injuries...He would of had to sign an ANA to refuse treatment since he did not go to a hospital from the scene. A broken nose and a head injry would garner an ER visit per squad....

More lies!

 

Jenab6

(1 post)
3. Injury is visible on back of George Zimmerman's head in the police video (for about two seconds)
Fri Mar 30, 2012, 09:32 AM
Mar 2012

In the Sanford, Florida, police video where George Zimmerman is handcuffed and being led into the police station, you can see an injury on Zimmerman's head during the two-and-a-half seconds that Zimmerman is standing with his back toward the camera, immediately before Zimmerman is led through a door on the far side of the room.

The injury is a gash that runs from near the top of the back of Zimmerman's head, where his hair is thinnest, downward and slightly to the right. That gash is what the police officer was examining about 20 seconds earlier in the video, just after he had finished searching Zimmerman's clothes.

The hasty and negligent reporting of the media regarding a lack of injuries on Zimmerman's head was false, and the error has served to prejudice potential jurors in any trial that might occur. A simple plausibility check would have told a prudent person that it wasn't at all likely that the police, the paramedics, and the district attorney would all be telling the same lies about Zimmerman having injuries that he didn't have.

I don't think that this error was an honest mistake. I think that the national mainstream media have deliberately spread false news in order to further a political agenda, which is partly aimed at the repeal of the "Stand Your Ground" laws that exist in many states.

w8liftinglady

(23,278 posts)
4. I was an ER nurse,and I call BullSh!T
Fri Mar 30, 2012, 09:43 AM
Mar 2012

Zimmerman had an injury to both the front and the back of his head.Any emt worth a hoot would have stabilized his neck with a collar.An ER doctor would need to see him to rule out the need for stitches.He would have had a CT of the brain to rule out a contrecoup injury,a cspine and skull x-ray,Labs would involve a blood count and an HIV and hepatitis screen(to protect the Police Officers).If he had any kind of broken nose acutely,there would have been definite blood spatter on the front of his shirt(I'm talking at least 100cc).They may even do an Xray of the back and shoulders,since he was thrown to the ground and shout his weapon while on a hard surface(according to him).

He would have immediately had his hands and feet bagged before getting in the police car.The police officers would have been wearing gloves(he was underneath the victim,according to his testimony-so at point blank he would have had both his and the victim's blood on his clothing.He would have required immediate forensics if here was cuffed.

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
5. Welcome to DU, first.
Fri Mar 30, 2012, 09:57 AM
Mar 2012

As to your post. Sounds precisely like the same nonsense put forward by most every rightwing gun freak is trying to sell. Why is that?

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
6. This
Fri Mar 30, 2012, 09:59 AM
Mar 2012
I'm a retired physicist, formerly employed with a defense contractor and, before that, as an officer in the US Air Force. Presently, I live on a small ranch on a forested hillside in the Allegheny Mountains, in Pocahontas County, West Virginia.

I have goats, and I raise apple trees. I used to do some intensive gardening, but that was when I was in Alabama. It's too rocky in these hills to plow much.

I'm an amateur astronomer, trained mathematically to be an astronomer, and I especially like celestial mechanics.

I'm also a White nationalist, a former member of the National Alliance, and a former editor for National Vanguard Books. I quit my job there after my last employer, Dr. William Pierce, died of cancer in 2002, remaining only long enough to complete the publication of the last authorized version of "WHICH WAY WESTERN MAN?"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jenab6


Profile information
About Jenab6

Former physicist. Former USAF officer. Retired.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=282842

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
15. Disgusting racism
Fri Mar 30, 2012, 10:58 AM
Mar 2012
"Although some Blacks can compete with Whites intellectually, they are too few to matter.

That's why the Blacks, and the leftists who support the Blacks, constantly fabricate, endorse and promulgate the myth that Blacks are the intellectual equals of Whites. If Blacks were honestly to recognize racial differences, they'd have to admit that they don't belong among us, that they are here with us only so they can suck up goody, that they oppress Whites more than they are oppressed by Whites."

- Jenab6

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070429185805AASpHQL


as quoted in a Yahoo thread where people were demanding he be banned for racism. Apparently even Yahoo TOSed him because his racist posts there still show up on a google search but Yahoo scrubbed all of them.


It's nasty, nasty stuff. His journal is even nastier.

A collection of material regarding race and racial differences, especially between Blacks and Whites, that I've posted in various places.

[font size=1]The Blacks to which I refer on this page, unless otherwise noted, are US-resident Negroes.[/font]

Races may be compared with metal canisters filled with gas. The net effect of their collective behavior is like the temperature of the canisters. You can measure the temperature of the canisters in order to see whether they are inside a safe-handling temperature range. If you forgo testing the temperature, or if you are informed about the temperature but choose to disregard any "too hot to handle" warnings, then you risk being burned. However, temperature does not predict the speed of any particular molecule in the canister. It only tells you what the RMS average speed is. Likewise, statistics on crime rates, HIV infection rates, IQ scores, and on similarly important subjects, which are broken down by race tells us that Blacks in general are rather nasty, savage, and primitive hominids, even though we realize that there are bound to be a few exceptions. The existence of those few exceptions does not justify or require our going over to the Black "canister" and associating ourselves in such a way that we will be burned.

If the resources needed for raising every person to their highest potential were available, I'd agree on the condition that any public assistance would be granted only if the recipient agreed to irreversible sterilization, since no finite pool of resources can forever satisfy a population of consumers whose numbers grow exponentially. However, resources are tight. And when resources are tight, you should use them to maximize the return per unit of expenditure. Since Whites are generally more intelligent than Blacks are, it makes little sense to divert career opportunities from more qualified Whites to less qualified Blacks. It makes little sense to spend money to educate less intelligent Blacks than to spend the same money on more intelligent Whites, who, compared to the Blacks, can learn more, learn faster, go farther, and return more benefit to society per dollar spent on their educations than the Blacks ever could.

—Jerry Abbott on VNN

http://jenab6.livejournal.com/19669.html



Here's Jenab6 on the racist mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik.
"Shame on those in the non-mainstream right who say what he did was "too extreme." We're at war. There is no such thing as too extreme."

http://jenab6.livejournal.com/23558.html


Anybody who can look at this map, understand what's happening, and still not realize that what the federal government intends to accomplish by allowing this invasion is the genocide of white Americans is stupid.

(map at link)
[font size=1]The (formerly) American Southwest. Notice that most of New Mexico, much of Arizona,
southern California, central California, southern Texas, and western Texas are populated mostly by Mexicans.
They have gained this territory, and we have lost it, regardless of what the maps say."[/font]

Americans have been driven out of a huge patch of what is supposed to be our territory. This Mexican invasion will spread, further and further, until we either put a stop to it, or they put an end to us. You can't evade this war because it has already begun. And we are losing, mostly because we haven't been fighting. It's too late for diplomacy. It's too late for talking. In a hundred years, either the grandchildren of their grandchildren will own this land, or the grandchildren of our grandchildren will. It's one or the other. Which would you rather it be?

Look at the map again! Where the Mexicans have spread, does it seem like there's going to be peaceful coexistence between them and ourselves? Why, no! It appears that where they go, we become convinced that we had better pack our bags and leave for other parts. The "diversity is our strength" blarney is a deception, a trick, to disarm us and make us delay going to our own defense. What happens where there's nowhere else to run to, and we can't put up much of a fight because we don't control enough land and resources anymore?

And, of course, the federal government (i.e., the Jews who bend our politicians to their will) are also inviting the Chinese to the Pacific Northwest, so they can build what will become communist Chinese military bases and staging areas for attacks on white Americans at some future time. This particular military trick is more than 3000 years old. It was used by the Ancient Greeks to win their war against Troy in 1184 BC. It's a trojan horse. No matter what it is at first, this Chinese city will sooner or later become a military base, and it will be used by the Chinese to prosecute a war against Americans.

...

The Jewish Plan to Destroy White People (video)

What is going on is the fruition of a long Jewish plan to get rid of the white race. We've been enemies for thousands of years, and now they finally have reason for thinking that their long war against us might end soon, in their favor. ("Soon" meaning by the end of the 21st century.)

That the events happening now are the result of a Jewish plan explains many apparently otherwise unrelated things. It explains the Mexican invasion. It explains the invitation to the Chinese to build military bases on American soil. It explains the change of immigration laws in the 1960s. It explains the "Civil Rights" movement and the forced racial integration of the public schools. It explains why the Justice Department behaves as if civil rights laws don't protect white people. It explains why the Jews caused two world wars to kill off our most hardy fellow whites during the early 20th century. It explains why our military forces are bogged down in the middle east, when they are desperately needed here. It explains feminism and its economic attack on the natural family structure. It explains why the white man is the lowest element on the social totem pole today, the only kind of human being whom any other kind of human being may mock with impunity.

...
http://jenab6.livejournal.com/?skip=10



Nasty stuff. Hates Blacks, hates Jews, hates Hispanics, hates the Left. WTF is this person doing here other than to further a White Nationalist agenda?

I'm going to take a shower now. Reading that filth was nasty.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,705 posts)
27. Good.
Fri Mar 30, 2012, 12:09 PM
Mar 2012

I was just getting ready to head on over to Help & Meta-Discussion to complain, but someone saved me the trouble. That one was really disturbing.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
28. I was so disgusted, I pm'd Skinner
Fri Mar 30, 2012, 12:21 PM
Mar 2012

he wrote back that MIRT had just gotten to him.

After more detective work, it turns out that person is/was the President of National Vanguard Books http://buildingdemocracy.org/reports/Beyond_a_Dead_Mans_Deeds_color_web.pdf

(relationship was established here http://jenab6.livejournal.com/profile)

Huge 5-1 jury fail, with nasty comments about a trivial alert, on that one. Thank our lucky stars for MIRT.

marzipanni

(6,011 posts)
17. & birther
Fri Mar 30, 2012, 11:19 AM
Mar 2012

Thanks for your detective work, Catherina- I also clicked on the user talk tab:

But these biases are still present, as is shown (for example) by the lack of seriousness in the treatment of the idea that Barack Obama might not have been born in the United States and is not qualified to be the President of the United States. The people who say he isn't a US citizen have a much better case than the Obama article makes it appear. There are not many other reasons that would account for the persistent unavailability of so much of Obama's documents and records and for the misrepresentation of the very small amount of relevant paper he has allowed us to see.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jenab6

PotatoChip

(3,186 posts)
19. Wow, disturbing. All of that crap reeks to high heaven.
Fri Mar 30, 2012, 11:23 AM
Mar 2012

Goodbye Jenab. Go back to your hateful little world.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
25. It gets worse on the sites with no restraints
Fri Mar 30, 2012, 11:58 AM
Mar 2012

There is also a White Nationalist writer who goes by the name Jerry Abbott. He's no relation to the country music singer. According to his website's main page [Jerry's Aryan Battle Page] (http://jabpage.org), his real name is <redacted for DU>, currently residing near Hillsboro, West Virginia, USA, and he has been using the pen name "Jerry Abbott" for about ten years.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:grb9pBxO8UwJ:wiki.verkata.com/en/wiki/Talk:Jerry_Abbott+%22jerry+abbott%22+white+nationalist&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=firefox-a


I googled him and jabpage (which isn't up anymore)

Here was the first result

My website has the White nationalist version of this post, which you can find at...

http://www.jabpage.org/posts/apocalypse.html

That page has links to David Price's page (137) at dieoff.org and to Matt Savinar's "Life After the Oil Crash" website.

I found a satellite photo of North America at night-time that shows the lights of the major cities. These will be the areas were niggers and other subhumans will be most on the prowl for prey -- anything from rats and stray dogs to people. My enlarged satellite image pic says (click the small pick to see it): "Get AWAY from the lights or the Niggers will EAT you!"

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:crwWvhb0d4kJ:www.vnnforum.com/archive/index.php/t-2752.html+jabpage+white+nationalist&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=firefox-a


Dear Jury, that's not me using such a lowlife word but a quote to show how hateful and despicable this racist hater is.

He's even listed in Franklin's Hate Directory under "Jerry's Aryan Battle Page" and "Jerry's Prussian Blue Page".

He's been cut and pasting the post he made about Zimmerman in this thread on several sites this week.

& Birther? It only figures.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
39. his comment was reposted on racist sites
Fri Mar 30, 2012, 09:22 PM
Mar 2012

so I googled, it was google that unearthed his wiki profile as the first link that came up since he was busy posting rightwing lies there and getting pounded, like the lie that Sonia Sotomayor suggested the castration of white men.

One thing then led to another.

uppityperson

(115,677 posts)
41. You did some really good research on this person. Thank you.
Fri Mar 30, 2012, 09:33 PM
Mar 2012

Excellent job. What a jerk that poster is.

 

fascisthunter

(29,381 posts)
7. shadow.... enhanced! Sorry, but the rest of the video does not support this conclusion
Fri Mar 30, 2012, 10:00 AM
Mar 2012

pretty desperate to use only a split second of enhancement on a video to cover for your bigoted buddy.

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
8. Please answer this
Fri Mar 30, 2012, 10:13 AM
Mar 2012

In any case where someone is injured at the scene, the police have to do two things:

One: document the injury
Two: offer to get the person to the hospital, where the injury will be treated and further documented.

A note to two is, if the person is in custody, like someone would be in a shooting (even if they were waiting for a ->Jury<- to decalre it was self defense) they would likely not have a say in two.

Why is this done, for the benefit of George, no. It is to cover the Policeman in case that injury turned out more serious. People can and have died from bumps to the head. Many have thought they were "Ok", only to have a vein pop in the brain overnight. If, let's say George was injured, and he died, the Zimmermans could have filed a nice fat lawsuit against the Sanford PD, and they did not not document that they noticed the injury AND offered to help get it treated, they would be Shark Bait for the lawyers.

The very fact that this simple, standard, documentation, which anyone right out of the academy would know to do, raises suspcion, and proves that at the very least, the Sanford PD did not mind their P's and Q's, which in, and of itself raises suspicion. Documenting your work as every bit as much as part of Police work as the other stuff, which is what separates the wanna bees from the professionals.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
21. Exactly!!!!
Fri Mar 30, 2012, 11:31 AM
Mar 2012

When my second husband got involved in a fight one evening, he got the worst of it. He was brought to the hospital with a broken nose, bad bruising on the face. Lots of blood.

The guy who punched him also claimed injuries (although I didn't see any) and was brought to the hospital by the police.

Anyone claiming to be injured would be checked out.

LynneSin

(95,337 posts)
12. Really in 2.5 seconds you could see a wound like that
Fri Mar 30, 2012, 10:24 AM
Mar 2012

Wow, never thought I would see the day that they would be giving out bionic eyes!!!

edbermac

(15,939 posts)
22. I didn't know they allowed patients access to the internet at the asylum.
Fri Mar 30, 2012, 11:31 AM
Mar 2012

Enjoy your brief stay.

siligut

(12,272 posts)
23. So, are you Jenab6 the bigot, or did you somehow think his moniker would give you some cred on DU?
Fri Mar 30, 2012, 11:47 AM
Mar 2012

Is this just an NRA backed dissemination of disinformation? Are you guys out in force to try to sway public opinion on the Internet?

Response to Jenab6 (Reply #3)

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
30. As a former medic
Fri Mar 30, 2012, 03:49 PM
Mar 2012

I call bullshit.

The injuries he claimed means cervical collar and backboard and trip to the ER to discount a series of issues.

I don't know about you, but I was not born with x-ray vision, nor is that equipment issued to paramedics.

cynatnite

(31,011 posts)
32. I've seen it. It's a scratch and does not warrent deadly force...
Fri Mar 30, 2012, 08:29 PM
Mar 2012

Your argument fails in a major way.

 

Justice4allofus

(72 posts)
36. I think you are talking about the Photoshop-job made by the conservative Daily Caller website
Fri Mar 30, 2012, 09:08 PM
Mar 2012

They increased the contrast on a part of Zimmerman's head in order to make it stand out and look like a possible wound. Are there stitches on the record? A gash without stitches is problematic for your case.

 

alcibiades_mystery

(36,437 posts)
40. The "gash" invented by the Daily Caller's silly "enhancement"
Fri Mar 30, 2012, 09:29 PM
Mar 2012

Which is all diversion anyway. The right wing idiot racists spent two days insisting that Trayvon "Mad Dog" Martin beat poor Georgie Zimmerman within an inch of his life, then when the video comes out they have to fake a "gash" on the back of poor Georgie's head because he's walking around 35 minutes later looking like he just finished a moderately stressful game of Go-Fish with a 6 year-old. These right wing racists, scarmbling for cover once their imbecile story was blown the fuck open by clear videotape, now are actually faking still shots to invent some "gash." The first "gash" not to bleed in the whole history of the human scalp!

Who the fuck are you even kidding. there is no serious head injury, and perhaps no head injury at all. And you can post a million Daily Caller "enhanced" pics and the lame ass CYA "police report." Everyone knows it's bullshit.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
18. One thing I discovered
Fri Mar 30, 2012, 11:22 AM
Mar 2012

after having children was that cuts to the head bleed a LOT.

In the video, if he didn't change clothing (which is up for debate as family members say he did, but a couple of witnesses say he he not), then the back of his jacket should be drenched in blood.

The same goes for his "broken nose". No blood evidence on the front of his shirt.

If he was beaten as badly as he claims he was, he should have had some redness or bruising or blood that would have been very visible on that video.

So his story sounds suspicious at best.

Lone_Star_Dem

(28,158 posts)
38. Scalp wounds do bleed like mad.
Fri Mar 30, 2012, 09:21 PM
Mar 2012

Even a small laceration to the scalp looks serious at first glance do to the excessive bleeding.

spin

(17,493 posts)
42. A tough little fighter can often beat a much bigger less experienced fighter ...
Fri Mar 30, 2012, 10:55 PM
Mar 2012
It isn't the size of the dog in the fight, it is the size of the fight in the dog.

My dad once told me, "In most street or bar fights, the person who lands the first solid punch has the best chance of winning." He knew what he was talking about as he grew up in a tough neighborhood in Pittsburgh in the early 1900s. My father had done some boxing and taught me the basics.

I once had a fight with a much larger bully while in high school. He slapped me and I nailed him in the nose with two quick short left hooks. The fight was over. I don't think I broke his nose but I came damn close. My opponent looked like shit the next day with his swollen nose. I never was bullied again in high school. (This was back in the 60s. If this had happened today both the bully and I would have been thrown out of school for a period of time and he would have probably came looking for me with a gun.)

Once in a jujitsu class, I forgot to tuck my chin when I was thrown on my back. My head slammed hard into the mat. I was dizzy and disoriented for a full minute but I had no visible injury or bleeding. After that, I learned to remember to tuck my chin when thrown. I don't find it hard to believe that if Martin had cold cocked Zimmerman and had him down and was slamming his head into the concrete or dirt, Zimmerman might have felt his life was in danger. I don't think that this is what happened but it's not as inconceivable as what some people would have you believe.

Reports say that Zimmerman was examined and treated by paramedics at the scene. I believe that even if the EMTs suggested that he seek treatment at a hospital, it was within his rights to refuse. If the police had arrested Zimmerman he would have probably had to go to a hospital for treatment to prevent his suing the police or city. If he wasn't arrested, he could refuse to go.

Don't for a second think that I am defending Zimmerman. For the information that I currently have gleaned from the news, I think Zimmerman was a cop wannabe who confronted Martin. If anyone had a right to stand his ground, it was Martin. There is a possibility that Zimmerman flashed or drew his handgun and Martin tried to disarm him with tragic results.

edited for coherency.


DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
44. Here is the key
Fri Mar 30, 2012, 11:31 PM
Mar 2012

Your quote:
"Reports say that Zimmerman was examined and treated by paramedics at the scene. I believe that even if the EMTs suggested that he seek treatment at a hospital, it was within his rights to refuse."

Response:
True, but even so, that refusal would need to be documented. After all, if it is not, there is nothing stopping Zimmerman from developing "headaches" and then saying whatever he wants. Above and beyond any race issue, Florida has a ton of ambulance chasers, and no Police department, especially one near a major city like Orlando, would dare leave that hole open.

Your quote:
" If the police had arrested Zimmerman he would have probably had to go to a hospital for treatment to prevent his suing the police or city. If he wasn't arrested, he could refuse to go. "

And THERE is what most of us are angry about. Somebody, NOT A JURY, made the call to LET ZIMMERMAN GO, despite the fact that HE had the rap sheet. There is a quote from Curtis Sliwa, founder the of Guardian Angels, a vigilante group. His quote was "I would rather be tried by 12 than carried out by six (in other words, a dozen jurors versus six pallbearers.) Fine then, where are the 12 jurors? Anyone who so much as gets into a Drunken "Friday Night Fisticuff" has to at the very least post bail. Their pictures and records are public record. My own county, Hillsborough, aka Tampa, even puts your picture on the Sheriff's website, as well as your court date. Also,keep in mind that while being on bail usually allows you to live your life normally, you are still expected to do certain things, show up to whatever office you are told you, when they tell you to, and do not even think of traveling unless the judge lets you.

Tp put the matter really bluntly, as of this point, there is absolutely nothing that says Zimmerman cannot buy a plane ticket, go to somewhere that has no extradition treaty, and live himself a happy life, where he can get on TV every day and say "Yes, I shot that (racial expletive deleted), and I would do it again!" Sadly, you know there is enough of a peanut gallery where he could live the rest of his life in comfort, maybe even sell books that would probably get sold on sites like Stormfront.

That is unless he never even gets charged, in which case, he might very well be elected into high office by the same state that made a Governor out of Rick Scott, a man that stole Medicare funds from old widows and children.

The point is, the law is being bent here, clearly. That is why we are angry. It should never, ever have gotten to the point we are now in the first place. I understand you are trying to be fair, to avoid being rash, but sometimes, even when you wash all the emotion away, the facts still stand out, and there is nothing that can wash away the fact that Zimmerman was not treated the way most of us would be, much less any Black male if their name happened to be George Zimmerman, and the kid with the skittles and Arizona Ice Tea was a blue-eyed blonde.

spin

(17,493 posts)
47. I was watching a program on CNN tonight where Curtis Sliwa was asked ...
Sat Mar 31, 2012, 03:13 AM
Mar 2012

"What do you think Zimmerman did wrong?"

He replied, "Everything from the time he got up in the morning."

In my opinion (at this time with the information that I have) I feel the investigation of the incident was at the best poorly conducted by a bunch of cops that were racist or could try out for the role of the "Keystone Kops" in a modern movie.



In my opinion I feel there were enough questions about Zimmerman's actions to justify his arrest. In fact some reports say that initially the officers who investigated the situation wanted to arrest Zimmerman and charge him with manslaughter but were overruled by some prosecutor who felt there was not enough evidence to justify the arrest. (Everyday I hear something different and I am ready to just throw my hands up and say, "Fuck This! I can't tell what the hell is the truth and what is not!&quot

I understand that EMTs are required to file a report on treatment that they give an individual and that report, when and if released, should help clear up many questions.

I have a Concealed Carry Permit and live in Florida and I would never consider myself to be a cop let alone a vigilante. I have no training let alone a uniform and a badge that would allow me to confront a suspicious person in my neighborhood.

I live in a racially diverse neighborhood and often see both black and white teenagers walk down my street with hoodies and their pants down revealing their underpants. I have never considered them suspicious in the least. There's one kid that I have called "Captain Underpants" but I never have thought that he posed any threat. I have told my own grandsons who live with me and sometimes let their pants sag, that it's a poor idea to not wear a belt with oversize pants so that you can look cool, because if you get in a fight and someone pulls your pants down around your ankles you not only will look like a fool but you will get your ass kicked.

Now I am hearing reports that Zimmerman had anger management problems which I can believe.

I will tell you how I would react if I was in Trayvon Martin's shoes from the information that I currently have. (I should add that I have had a Florida Concealed Weapons permit for the last fifteen years and 45 years experience in shooting handguns.)

When I am innocently walking down a street I am in Condition Yellow which means that I am alert to my surroundings and the people in it. If I notice someone following me, I would be concerned. I might walk faster and try to lose him. I have my radar out and something seems strange so I attempt to avoid a confrontation. If this individual confronts me in an aggressive manner, I would be on full alert which is called Condition Orange. If the individual flashed his firearm or drew it, I would go to Condition Red. If I honestly felt that he intended to draw his weapon or if it was in his hand and I believed that he intended to shoot me, I would do my best to defend myself. Since I have a carry permit and carry, I would draw my weapon and attempt to stop his attack. If I wasn't carrying my firearm, I would attempt to use what remains of the skills on disarming an attacker that I learned many years ago, fully realizing that I might end up dead if I failed. If the person who is following me is not aggressive and polite when he confronts me, I will answer his questions in a polite manner and both of us will be on our way.

But I am white and my interpretation of the level of aggression of the person who approaches and confronts me might differ considerably from the impression that a person who was black might have. I have never experienced racism and hatred. My heritage does not include a long history of discrimination. I am not a racist and even if the person who is questioning me was black, I wouldn't be concerned. I have many black acquaintances and I have even had black people room in my large home which was once a hotel. Skin color doesn't make any difference to me as what counts is not on the surface but in the heart.

Now I will put myself in Zimmerman's shoes. (I should state that I have no interest in joining a neighborhood watch and if I did I would join an actual neighborhood watch organization which I understand forbids carrying firearms.) Some reports say that Zimmerman was a self appointed Neighborhood Watch Captain which to me means he might have been a vigilante.

If I called a police dispatch operator and was instructed to break off following a suspicious individual, I would do so. Now I hear differing reports on if Zimmerman was in a vehicle when he called or if he was on foot. If I was in my vehicle, I would have simply drove off and hoped that the police would respond to the situation. If I was on foot and Martin attacked me while I was following instructions and was returning to my vehicle, I would do my best to defend myself but because I was unarmed by the rules of the neighborhood watch groups, I would not have be able to shoot him.

As you suggest I am trying to be fair. I refuse to believe that the media should replace our system of justice and replace judges and juries. At this time I don't feel we have all the information that the investigation gathered. Our system has a presumption of innocence unlike the systems in other nations. I value this.

However, from what I currently know, I feel that there should be a far more thorough investigation by an more independent agency than what I understand has been conducted. The results of this investigation should be totally released and in this situation I feel that Zimmerman should be arrested and have to explain his actions to a jury.

If this doesn't happen, I suspect we will see many nonviolent demonstrations and some violent demonstrations as the media has drawn attention to this incident, perhaps deservedly so.





















DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
48. Hell yes
Sat Mar 31, 2012, 04:26 AM
Mar 2012

"In my opinion I feel there were enough questions about Zimmerman's actions to justify his arrest. In fact some reports say that initially the officers who investigated the situation wanted to arrest Zimmerman and charge him with manslaughter but were overruled by some prosecutor who felt there was not enough evidence to justify the arrest"

EXACTLY, they had the fool ON TAPE, being told NOT to follow. The fact he said (racial expletive deleted) adds evidence as to his intent.

"As you suggest I am trying to be fair. I refuse to believe that the media should replace our system of justice and replace judges and juries."

I agree, especially as the Media has proven it can outright rough roughshod over the courts. However, as of right now, we do not need to debate guilt or innocence, we can right now debate why Geroge Zimmerman is not in custody, why he did not even have to post bail. This, in and of itself, is enough for protest.

At the risk of swimming into some deep political waters, we cannot pretend this happened in a vaccum. This is a state that got surprised by the fact many black people voted for Obama, and has been screaming "VOTER FRAUD" at the top of it's lungs as Voter suppression laws get passed. Let's not even get into local talk radio (some of which makes Rush Limbaugh look like Keith Olbermann), or the way Florida Politcos seem to outright flaunt the fact they can run up millions for their pet projects, yet the first people cut off are the poor, especially minorities. The point is, many in Florida can and do feel that they are under siege, and that this latest event it just the cherry on top.

There is also the not unreasonable fear about what Zimmerman's crime may enable or encourage. YOu sir,sound like you are a responsible Florida Gun Owner, however, if you have been to the Gun shows, you have probaly seen a few people who...let's be charitable, give folks like you a really bad name. We are talking people waving the stars and bars, passing out the really odd literature that starts off sounding like something else, but ends up a Nazi or KKK tract. I am sure you dislike these clowns too, but they are there.

It sure does not help that we are having the GOP convention down here, which, even, if there is no incident, will guarantee lots of attention, and straight out tension. There many be idiots who will see Zimmerman's freedom and the Microphones and use that to "put people in their place." I live right next to an area where a Black person was set on fire with gasoline, this is NOT an abstraction to me.

To sum it up, while I do not want to form any lynch mobs, and yes,I want the courts (key word courts) to do their job, I am afraid that this is no longer just about a legal issue. As ugly as it sounds, there are people in this state who are celebrating Tray's death, and who also see it as yet another way to punish the black people that dared put one of theirs in the Oval Office.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Zimmerman injured? I cal...