I Would Think Twice About Going To The Shoot To Kill State

[TheMastersNemesis]

I would think twice about going to Florida which is the shoot to kill state. When any idiot can carry a gun and can shoot to kill because of the stand your ground law, something is terribly wrong. And we know in our heart the Zimmerman will walk free and nothing will be done. The authorities have made up their mind. They are refusing to do anything.

Zimmerman will walk because the police conspired to cover a cold blooded premeditated murder of a child. The racist bigoted excrement in that community are just as responsible. There is NO forensic evident to the crime. The police told Zimmerman to go home and they would take care of it. And take care of it they did.

That corrupt racist bigoted attitude that lives in the hearts of the police department endangers anyone who goes to Florida. Can you honestly say in your heart that you could trust any policeman in Florida when there is so much hate. You can be white and all you have to do is have the wrong sign or be in the wrong party. You don't just have to have the wrong color of skin.

Florida is a cesspool of hate run by Republicans. Republicans are haters, bigots, racists and every sort of evil. Why spend a dime in that state. I am sorry for Democrats who have to live in such a sludge pit.

[Lifelong Protester]

1. No offense to any Floridians

or Arizonans on this board, but the idea of going to either of those states freaks me out. Don't count on my tourist dollars anytime soon.

And you who live there, be SAFE!!

[southernyankeebelle]

2. I have already put a self imposed boycot of the states of FL, AZ, VA and SC

I will not spend any money in those states.

[Politicalboi]

3. Aren't there many states with this law?

I seem to recall the map behind Rachel in yellow the states that have this law, and it's about 15 or more. I know it's not here in Ca. YET!

[Ecumenist]

7. Don't worry, PoliticalBoi, They'llNEVER be able to pass these atrocity

here, trust me.

[MrSlayer]

4. That's why I only go to Disney.

You are physically in Florida but it's not really Florida. None of those crazy gun laws apply there. I would never go into real world Florida.

[JohnnyRingo]

5. To imagine I came of age in the relatively peaceful time of Kent State.

I don't recall any hippies carrying sidearms back then, and the era has generally been described as "violent". At least no one wanted to pretend to be a cop.

[Johnny Rico]

6. 1970 was peaceful? Really?

The intentional homicide rate in the US in 1970 was 7.9 per 100,000.

The rate in 2011? 4.8 per 100,000...and there are a lot more guns in private hands now.

[JohnnyRingo]

8. I live near Youngstown

I'd be terrified to go to places where we used to see concerts back then. Even the West side of nearby Warren is a rust belt war zone now, and they call the North end where I used to drink "Area 51".

Of course, those NRA statistics don't lie do they?

Unless of course they cherry pick one statistic and assume people only use guns for successfully completed murders. Fortunately, not every gun related violent crime ends in a homocide:



Source: US Bureau of Justice Statistics

[Johnny Rico]

9. NRA statistics? I was using FBI numbers.

[JohnnyRingo]

14. Regardless, overall gun violence has indeed increased since the '70s

The reason the "homocide rate" hasn't gone up at the same rate as violent crime is because of the great strides we've made in the last 40 years in emergency services. Back in 1970 a gunshot victim would likely be given a ride to the hospital in the back of a Cadillac station wagon that passed as an ambulance in those days. The attendee was usually an RN who would do her best to staunch the bleeding during the hellride race to the ER.

Now of course, an ambulance is a rolling emergency room staffed by highly trained EMTs who often stabilize the patient at the scene, resulting in much higher survival rates. The rate of murders in that chart doesn't mean fewer people are getting shot, it just means more gunshot victims make it to court to testify against the shooter.

Gun advocates often cherry pick stats that they think makes their case that more guns equals a safer America. The overall rate of violent crimes involving guns says otherwise, but they conveniently leave that larger picture out of the equation.

Personally, I'm not an anti-gun advocate. I'm an owner myself, but I don't fall for pro-gun propaganda that would put a 9mm in anyone's hand with a checkbook.

[Johnny Rico]

16. Your point about emergency services is well taken. But...

overall gun violence has indeed increased since the '70s

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States#Crime_over_time

This doesn't show numbers for 1970 or 2011, but it does show the violent crime rate/100,000 as:

1971: 396.0
2010: 403.6

Virtually the same.

And in 1979 it had increased to 548.9. Don't these numbers show that the '70s were, overall, somewhat more violent than today?

I will take better medical care into account in future arguments. It's a quite valid point.

[X_Digger]

12. Did you miss 'rate' in the previous statement?!?

And I like your 'source'-- your own photobucket account.

Here's another link for you-

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/glance/tables/firearmnonfataltab.cfm

[JohnnyRingo]

13. First of all, that chart comes straight from govt sources.

I put the picture file in my Photobucket acct so I can post it here. You know that's how it's done, don't you?

The reason the "homocide rate" hasn't gone up at the same rate as violent crime is because of the great strides we've made in the last 40 years in emergency services. Back in 1970 a gunshot victim would likely be given a ride to the hospital in the back of a Cadillac station wagon that passed as an ambulance in those days. The attendee was a nurse who would do her best to staunch the bleeding until arrival at the ER.

Now of course, an ambulance is a rolling emergency room staffed by highly trained EMTs who often stabilize the patient at the scene, resulting in much higher survival rates. The rate of murders in that chart doesn't mean fewer people are getting shot, it just means more gunshot victims make it to court to testify.

The NRA often cherry picks stats that they think makes their case that more guns equals a safer America. The overall rate of violent crimes involving guns says otherwise, but they leave that out.

Personally, I'm not an anti-gun advocate. I'm an owner myself, but I don't fall for NRA propaganda.

On edit:
The chart you cite in your link conveniently begins in 1993 during the height of the crack epidemic and indicates a decline to the current year. This is also shown in the chart I supplied, but suggests more the effect of anti-drug education and prosecution than increases in gun ownership. The overall result since 1970 is a maked increase in violent crimes.

[X_Digger]

15. That chart by itself is meaningless.

That graph has no notations, no way to know what's being measured. It might as well be a stick figure for all the validity that would show.

If you're going to copy from wikipedia, at least have the nerve to admit to it..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Violent_Crime_Rates_in_the_United_States.svg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States
[div class='excerpt']The year 2010 was overall the safest year in almost forty years. The recent overall decrease has reflected upon all significant types of crime, with all violent and property crimes having decreased and reached an all-time low. The homicide rate in particular has decreased 51% between its record high point in 1991 and 2010.

From 2000-2008, the homicide rate stagnated.{8} While the homicide rate decreased continuously between 1991 and 2000 from 9.8 homicides per 100,000 persons to 5.5 per 100,000, it remained at 5.4-5.7 until 2009, when it dipped down to 5.0, and continued to drop in 2010 to 4.8.

Despite the recent stagnation of the homicide rate, however, property and violent crimes overall have continued to decrease, though at a considerably slower pace than in the 1990s.{8} Overall, the crime rate in the U.S. was the same in 2009 as in 1968, with the homicide rate being roughly the same as in 1964. Violent crime overall, however, is still at the same level as in 1973, despite having decreased steadily since 1991.{9}

We're back to homicide rates not seen since before 1965, violent crime is at it's lowest since before 1973, and property crime rate is at it's lowest since before 1969!!!!

http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=daaSearch/Crime/State/StateCrime.cfm

[font face='courier']
Year....Homicide Rate.....Violent Crime Rate.....Property Crime Rate
--------------------------------------------------------------------
2010..............4.8..................403.6...................2,941
1965..............5.1...............................................
1973...................................417.4........................
1969...........................................................3,351[/font]

Go look at the stats for yourself, don't take my word for it. LOL!!

[JohnnyRingo]

21. You win! You win, don't shoot!

Hahahaha

[cleanhippie]

22. Too late, he already blasted you with his double-barrel fact gun.

It shoots cold, hard facts, and facts will get ya every time.

[badtoworse]

10. I'm going tarpon fishing down there in a few weeks...

and have been visiting friends and vacationing there for more than 30 years. I'm not the slightest bit worried.

[SwampG8r]

11. if you lack the intrepidity to be here

then by all means stay away
its not a place for the more genteel so you would only slow us down and get in our way
so i agree please stay away from florida it will eat the lesser of humanity in one pass

[Edweird]

17. Then don't come to Florida.

[flvegan]

18. Good, thanks.

In other completely unrelated news, we have more than enough complete morons here in Florida.

Back to the OP, thanks again.

[Homer Wells]

19. I am so eternally thankful

that I left that place 35 years ago. (Although the Tampa bay area was, and is, a very beautiful place)!

[librechik]

20. 24 states have Shoot to Kill laws now thanks to ALEC, the NRA and Wal Mart

http://www.propublica.org/article/the-23-states-that-have-sweeping-self-defense-laws-just-like-floridas


Alabama

Arizona

Georgia

Idaho

Illinois (The law does not include a duty to retreat, which courts have interpreted as a right to expansive self-defense.)

Indiana

Kansas

Kentucky

Louisiana

Michigan

Mississippi

Montana

Nevada

New Hampshire

North Carolina

Oklahoma

Oregon (Also does not include a duty to retreat.)

South Carolina

South Dakota

Tennessee

Texas

Utah

Washington (Also does not include a duty to retreat.)

West Virginia

Sources: Legal Community Against Violence; National District Attorney’s Association; Association of Prosecuting Attorneys.