Does Stepian, Wildstein or Kelly have ANY documented evidence against Christie?

[CTyankee]

A NJ republican legislator was on Kornacki's show this a.m. claiming the committee had ALL of CC's emails and phone messages (personal and professional) and found nothing incriminating. Does this mean that even if the 3 aides have something more than what has already been revealed, if CC didn't answer them he could claim he never GOT them in the first place. Plus, we don't know what those photos taken last Sept. 11 mean...they could be talking sports or lunch (as suggested by the legislator).

If this is the case, then prosecution of CC is pretty much dead and his "investigation" is the end of it. And I think Kelly will get the worst of it. CC's handpicked "investigators" knew exactly what it was doing by zeroing in on her. Despite the cries of many Dems and women, the "official" word will be that she was a spurned woman who hysterically took out her anger by closing access lanes to the GWB, as insane as that sounds. There are still people who believe that women do such crazy shit when their lovers jilt them. And she isn't even a sympathetic person to begin with. There will be a lot of "she'll get what she deserved" from both Republicans and Dems.

I fear that what that repub legislator said was depressingly right...Christie has his mojo back...

[Squinch]

1. And because that is a narrative that a certain type of person likes, it might work.

I so hope she had a brain in her head and kept some kind of documentation to prove this wasn't her idea. She doesn't seem that bright, though.

[jehop61]

2. You know nothing about the woman

And you further the narrative about her being a silly jilted woman. There were at least 4 or 5 men we know were involved. Do you believe they were stupid too?

[CTyankee]

6. You have missed my point which was that there are plenty of people who believe shit about

women who get jilted. I don't believe it and I didn't say it, Christie's investigators did. I'm just saying they said that because they knew some people will believe it, as nonsensical as it is. As a woman, I'm not falling for it, but that committee must have thought others WOULD...that is all I am saying. It is sexist and rotten to the core, total bullshit, but I think we are seeing what we are up against with Christie and his apologists. He is a dangerous, vile creature who deserves to be in prison. But he seems to be winning this thing and I am just as depressed as you or anyone else here is.

[Squinch]

16. You have misread my meaning. There are people who will jump at the chance to believe

that this is all about a silly jilted woman, because there are people who love the idea of a silly jilted woman. There are those who are using the love of that idea to distract attention from what actually happened, namely a concerted effort to intimidate by a large group of people.

My point is that it is moronic to believe this narrative of the jilted woman.

[Laxman]

19. They Will, But...

you're point is well taken, it is moronic to believe that narrative. Kelly was part of this group of young republican operatives who all were starstruck with themselves. (some still are) Its akin to hot shot Wall Street types. They think they are the smartest people in the room. And it made them arrogant bullies- just like their boss. They were impossible to deal with because there is only their way. Its the arrogance and the hubris and the "I'll show you" attitude that they bring to all of their dealings that led to the GWB. Kelly wasn't unstable-she was the same type of jack ass as the rest of the bunch. It did her in. All that remains is how many people she'll take down with her.

[Squinch]

22. Yes. And she was the one who was unlucky (or dumb) enough to allow her email to get out.

But the whole team seems like they have the personality of the Wicked Witch's (Christie's) flying monkeys.

[CTyankee]

3. If she was a "true believer" then I think you are right. Such people, men or women,

often surround powerful people mainly BECAUSE they don't have the capacity to be wary. CC must have chosen her knowing this about her. If so, she has probably now learned a bitter lesson but too little, too late unless she's got more than her word against his.

My parents had an old saying: "if you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas."

[Squinch]

17. Her participation in the scheme in the first place doesn't say good things about her.

And I agree. Those not-good things were probably her appeal to Christie.

Still, I feel badly for her. Right now she's the only one under the bus. I hope she has something on him.

[CTyankee]

28. I hope so, too. He's a helluva lot worse than she is.

But I hope she is "sadder but wiser" now.

[spanone]

4. 'the committee' who is the committee? this is shitting in the jury pool

this isn't near the end of this story.

the trumped up 'investigation' didn't talk to the primary people involved and no one was under oath.

i'll wait for the fed investigation.

[CTyankee]

9. But what if there are NO incriminating notes, messages, etc?

It would be just like Christie to carefully leave no trail at all so he can say he never heard it, saw it, etc. WHATEVER the 3 aides say they told him. That's my point.

[spanone]

11. if kelly & wildstein testify the order came from the christie, i suspect that could nail him.

i want to see kelly get immunity and sing like a bird.

[CTyankee]

13. But they can say what they want and it will be spun by Christie that they were just trying to save

their asses...without some hard evidence to the contrary I think that is precisely what Christie will do.

[spanone]

14. well, if they lie under oath, they face jail time. i don't think you can spin the fed investigators

[CTyankee]

29. I don't think they'll lie. I fear they don't have the hard evidence they need...

[Spazito]

26. LOL!

[Squinch]

30. Snork!

[CTyankee]

34. But then what would be their motive to act this way?

It does not make a lot of sense.

[randr]

5. Christie has no mojo

He is a pathological liar and is only playing tough to keep the Republican National Committee from losing their faith in him.
He has no future in New Jersey, and he knows it. His only hope of political survival is to continue swimming to the promise land of Presidential politics. Once their he will be enshrined in the most privileged county club on the planet.
Like a good Republican he threw the woman under the bus.

[CTyankee]

10. I agree with you on CC being a pathological liar but "that" is his mojo, right there.

It's what he DOES. As long as he gets away with it, we have Chris Christie around to deal with.

[Avalux]

7. It might appear that way...

remember that the 'investigation' was paid for by Christie; no telling what evidence they actually found vs. what has been presented.

Foolish people will believe the outcome of this biased investigation. The US AG office is conducting their own investigation with Kelly as their key witness, so there's that.

A question to be considered given the premise that Christie was not aware:

How could a governor be so isolated that he had no clue what his closest people were doing?

[CTyankee]

12. My question as well. We answer with "well, if he didn't know, he should have known, therefore

he was an incompetent governor." But he's now polling 41-46 against HRC. Of course, that is just one poll and I hope it is wrong. And I agree that this was Christie's handpicked committee, altho he did NOT pay for it, the NJ taxpayers did (which galls me no end).

I also await with hope the AG's investigation, but my point is that unless the 3 aides have something incriminating against Christie, what else have we got?

[Bjorn Against]

8. While I suspect Christie was careful enough to not put his name in an e-mail...

I also expect there is documented evidence out there that will prove this internal report false, and once that comes out Christie will be in really hot water for spending a million in taxpayer dollars for an investigation that was completely wrong in its findings. I think this report will damage Christie in the long run as investigations are still going and when those other investigations contradict Christie's he is going to have a lot of explaining to do.

[LiberalFighter]

21. I agree.

In the age of computers and cell phones there is too much floating around to hide. Most people don't understand the intricacies of electronic communication. The key component is that when email is sent it starts out with 2 copies. The sender and the recipient. And if there is a conversation they likely will use the reply method keeping a more detailed trail. Even if it were to involve phone conversations without text the connections can be made when time stamps can be matched between the caller and person called.

All of the tracks can't be covered or deleted.

[Jim__]

15. Wildstein claims to have spoken to Christie about this on Sept 11.

We don't know whether or not Kelly spoke with Christie about it. If both Kelly and Wildstein claim to have spoken to him about it, their stories may be more credible than his denial.

But, say, there is no compelling criminal case against Christie. Christie still appointed the people that he now denigrates as unreliable to positions with a lot of power. That alone should be sufficient to take away any mojo that Christie ever had. Cristie's most compelling defense is incompetence - not exactly a qualification to be president.

There is also the use of the Port Authority for the personal enrichment of another of Christie's appointees, Samson, and the false testimony of Baroni.

Christie may not be charged with a crime, but he's unquestionably splattered with mud of his appointees.

[CTyankee]

35. So far, it is the best thing we have against Christie.

That, and the fact that he claims he didn't know about the lane closures when it was very much in the news. Wouldn't a reasonable governor say to his aides "Get to the bottom of this ASAP!" But Christie claims he didn't know about it. That does strain credulity. BUT, that said, how does that play in Iowa where people perhaps didn't know about the lane closures. We knew about it here in the NE but perhaps it didn't make it into the papers or TV in places like Iowa...

[Jim__]

38. How it plays in Iowa will be up to his opponents.

His record in New Jersey now is one of rampant corruption and bullying. The feds are also investigating his handling of Sandy money, and at the very least, there is the appearance of corruption.

If he runs, I expect his primary opponents to bury him under his atrocious record as governor.

[CTyankee]

39. my husband said the same thing to me this morning...

he think the far right wing will hate his guts so much they'll do him in. I told him I thought that Christie had already thought that through and he will come out totally in favor of all their wacky ideas and just say he had to be more "moderate" because he was running in New Jersey. Yup, he'll throw the whole state of NJ under the bus and say he just didn't mean it when he was so "tolerant" and that he really is a caveman just like the far RW is...he knows that if he runs for president he won't win New Jersey's votes....

[Laxman]

18. This Is About So Much More....

than the GW Bridge. It's Hoboken and Sandy money and Samson. Also, just because there are no e-mails or texts (that we know about) doesn't mean there wasn't involvement of Christie's inner circle. There's an operational firewall around the governor designed to protect him from direct incrimination. Bridget Kelly was part of that. Forget the legislative committee. It's the U.S. Attorney that counts. Christie is playing a particular hand right now that involves blaming it all on Wildstein & Kelly. Very risky. Neither Kelly or Wildstein came up with this "prank" on their own. One slip up and the GWB gets to the Governor's office and becomes a part of the greater pattern of abusive behavior. Then he has an "honest services" problem with the feds.

[Squinch]

24. I think the Leutenant Governor's conversation with the mayor of Hoboken

proves your point. That arm-twisting was carefully orchestrated to be deniable and non-attributable to Christie.

[CTyankee]

33. Yeah, what the real investigators get out of her will be key...

she might be the downfall of Christie...

[LiberalFighter]

23. It would be easier to hide information 20 years ago.

And there wouldn't be as much.

But now when people rely on electronic devices.?

[CTyankee]

31. ah, my point is that maybe Christie DIDN'T rely on electronic devices.

He could very well have communicated with Kelly and Wildstein in person behind closed doors with no witnesses to corroborate their story. And I am sure he made sure that his office was not bugged.

[LiberalFighter]

42. It is easier to slip up than to have all your ducks in a row.

Also, he doesn't have to be the person that does it face to face. If enough can confirm the standard operation used in his office along with tying him as to where he was that would be a start.

[LiberalFighter]

25. A rebuttal to that NJ legislator.

Would be that the investigators only investigated where they knew it wouldn't open up a can of worms.

[CTyankee]

32. Oh, she knew that and the rest of Kornacki's panel knew that.

She was obviously sent out to test the waters on a liberal MSNBC show and IMO she did a pretty good job, although I don't believe a word of what she said and neither did any of the other panelists. Maybe the video of that segment is on his show's website.

[Gin]

27. His judgement has been tarnished.....all of his closest aids were fired or resigned....he will never

Withstand the scrutiny of a WH run No matter what they may or may not have against him.

His mojo is false bravado and will be his downfall. IMHO

[tularetom]

36. The question is what do you want the outcome to be?

Do you want to see him go to jail? I agree that lacking a paper trail, that may not happen. But if what you want is that he have no future in national politics, I think that is pretty much a slam dunk at this point. Nobody is buying his lame ass "investigation" and he'll be tainted with the stink of Bridgegate for the rest of his political life.

He may become a commentator on fox news but he won't ever be POTUS. Frankly I doubt he could be elected governor again in NJ.

[CTyankee]

37. I want him politically "dead." But there's that recent poll that has him

only 5 points down from HRC as a potential presidential candidate. That's too close for me.

Of course, that is just one poll, but I was shocked as hell to see it. If what you say is true, he should be polling at least 20 points down from her.

And the further we get from all this stuff, the more likely amnesia will set in, or at least that what Christie hopes. I hope you are right. That's why the further investigations are so important, to keep playing this thing out further and keep reminding people of what this guy is all about.

[Botany]

40. Baroni told Stepian of the shut down as it was happening

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024680873

[rocktivity]

43. Would YOU have done this leaving a trail pointing at you?

Last edited Sat Mar 29, 2014, 07:31 PM - Edit history (2)

CC's masterminding the entire thing, right down to rigging the ethics committee and arranging for the air pollution monitors to be turned off, sounds a LOT saner!

The LACK of evidence can be considered, too.


rocktivity

[CTyankee]

44. that is true, too. I wonder what the prosecutors will make of that...

[rufus dog]

45. Preemptive strike

Have you considered that they are trying to get in front of the story

[CTyankee]

46. Yes, I think that is exactly what they are trying to do.

The whole story of Kelly as some sort of crazy woman scorned is a perfect example. As I have said before on this thread, they know it is a "sell-able meme" for their base and they probably hope it will go further into the electorate. Well, good luck with that...