Is anyone really surprised by this? Really, anyone?

[Lady Freedom Returns]

[Curmudgeoness]

1. That's capitalism, you know.

The best system in the world.....let the taxpayers (meaning the little people) pay for the corporate sins.

Sadly, I am not surprised.

[RKP5637]

26. Capitalism AKA Corporate Welfare! n/t

[hfojvt]

61. I am surpised

and it is NOT capitalism. It is not the way it has always been.

Even Ronald Reagan, according to a column by Mark Shields. One I can no longer find on the internet. Shields told a story about President Reagan being informed that a whole bunch of profitable corporations were NOT paying taxes. And Reagan, to his credit, reacted like an ordinary American would - he was FURIOUS.

And thus he promoted the tax reform of 1986, to close those loopholes.

Although that same reform reduced the top personal rate down to just 28% and also increased the bottom rate.

But somehow, some time, the Republican Party got even WORSE than Reagan, because today's Republicans, rather than being outraged about corporations that don't pay taxes, instead they will fight to the death to make sure those corporations keep their tax exemptions.

Supposedly that has not always been true.

[Curmudgeoness]

62. I still say that it is capitalism.

Well, it is capitalism if it is not held in check....you know, regulated. Pure capitalism is just greed and profit at all costs.

But you are right, it has not always been this way. But that is because of tax laws, making too much profit difficult for companies tax-wise. And also it was due to labor laws, and environmental laws, and anti-trust laws.....all the laws that keep losing ground.

If you read about how business was conducted in the 19th or early 20th Century, you know that capitalism did no good for anyone but the business owners. And they would still love to have unfettered control. Nothing has changed. Think of the times when price fixing was common practice. Or when companies owned everything in town, and no only paid a pittance, but were not even happy with all the profits from their business. They had to have company stores and company houses to take the money back from the employees and add to the profits.

Sorry, but I think that this is capitalism.

[hfojvt]

64. actually that is NOT true either, as Schumpeter points out

Capitalism did a lot of good for the masses in the 19th and twentieth centuries.

Kings and rich people have always lived like kings, but capitalism produced FOR the masses. It was the masses who got the bath tubs and the hot running water, got the electricity, got the televisions, got the automobiles, got the washing machines, got to take trips to see some natural and man-made wonders with national parks, got to buy more food and clothing than they need, got refrigerators, and microwaves, and air conditioners, etc., etc., etc.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023295291

Capitalism does not have to be the way it is now, and, in spite of the song, most people in the past really did not owe their soul to the company store.

[Curmudgeoness]

65. Maybe I am stuck with visions of Sinclair's The Jungle.

Or the stories from my youth from my parents and grandparents about the way it used to be in the early 20th Century. Just like today, there were people who could afford the consumer goods, but too many people were left out. The people who were left out were the ones who were used like they were horses instead of human beings. They were not able to have any luxuries. And most of the working class were left out.

The consumer goods that you mention came after the time I was talking about, a time when unions had been established and conditions were better because the workers forced it on the capitalists. Things improved greatly for workers after WWII. Sure, capitalism did good for the masses by developing things we need to make life better for us. But regulated capitalism gave us the ability to afford these things.

[The Wizard]

2. Bribery doesn't cost

it pays.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Nope, not one bit

[Glorfindel]

4. And Duke Energy is a person under the law, entitled to freedom of speech and of religion

I wonder how I can get out of paying federal income tax. Maybe I should incorporate. Yes, indeed. Gotta love capitalism!

[Jack Rabbit]

8. If Duke is a person . . .

. . . then can we give it a lethal injection for any deaths caused by poisoning the water?

[Glorfindel]

12. Sounds good to me!

[RKP5637]

27. Therefore, an arrest warrant should go out to Duke Energy, directors and the executive echelon. It's

just a collection of people, the corporation is a person, people can be held accountable, hence the corporation and its hucksters.

[CrispyQ]

37. It's going to be interesting to watch the male Supremes twist themselves in knots on the HL case.

How will they justify letting the CEO protect his personal assets from liability but enforce his personal beliefs on his employees?

[Whisp]

5. Not as bad as Welfare Moms!

I have low brow acquaintances that I am slowly getting rid of because I can't stand their words that do say shit like this. I try. I really try to interject some reality of who the real welfare queens are and they are unable to comprehend, because the welfare mom/bum thing is so ingrained and they are unable to come up with the energy to actually Think about it.

[Treant]

6. I'm shocked, I tell you.

Just shocked. Truly. No, this is my shocked face, I just had Botox.

[GeorgeGist]

7. Freedumb works.

[QuestForSense]

22. I wish dumb were free, but it just keeps getting more expensive.

[Terra Alta]

9. where's the outcry from the right?

with their hatred of "welfare queens", well this is the biggest "welfare queen" of them all... after all, aren't corporations people now?

[BlancheSplanchnik]

10. not surprised.

share this one, definitely

[GoCubsGo]

11. And, on top of that...

...The NC Dept. of Environment and Natural Resources just laid off 10% of their water division--the ones who monitor this type of thing.

[AAO]

13. I think I feel, no I need to go!

[Dirty Socialist]

14. Who Spilled The Coal Ash?

When after all, it was you and me.

[stuntcat]

15. And will we do anything about it?

It kills me all we'll let happen.

k,r

[NBachers]

16. And a lot of people in North Carolina support and defend their right to do so you betcha *wink*!

Apologies and sympathy to our North Carolina residents who are appalled and sickened by this continuing atrocity. I know you're not all like that.

[stuntcat]

21. I had to spend Thanksgiving with a N Carolinian who was upset about part of the outer banks being ..

.. upset about part of the outer banks being off limits to fishermen because someone's trying to protect a bird habitat.
Dumb ol' birds! Why protect them, they''' be wiped out and forgotten in a few decades anyway?!

I love NC, some of the BEST people I know are from there, but sadly it's still the South.

[Jesus Malverde]

17. wow...nt

[blkmusclmachine]

18. Savvy!

[ZX86]

19. Yeah but what about that surfer dude using food stamps to buy seafood?

I saw it with my own eyes on Fox News. He just hangs out on the beach all day and has some rock band. That's where the focus should be. Guys who need hair cuts. Inner city types (if you know what I mean). And kids that won't get off my lawn. Job creators like Duke Energy should be left alone.

[ctsnowman]

36. Exactly.

USA USA USA

[Auntie Bush]

20. Instead of taxing corporations to help balance the budget...

We cut food stamps for the poor. It's absolutely unbelievable the Conservatives could possibly believe this is the solution.

[Thinkingabout]

56. EXACTLY

[Elwood P Dowd]

23. Why don't our fearless leaders in the Senate have hearings on this type of shit?

The repukes hold hearings on fake scandals, yet our side lets serious disasters like this continue without a peep.

[Doctor_J]

24. What do you have against job creators?

Can the DoJ impose the corporate death penalty on these psychopaths?

[laundry_queen]

25. It's what they teach in business school.

I saw a video on it in a class a few weeks ago - it was an American 'educational' video and I'm in Canada, so I don't know why the prof showed it, but the main message was, "it's your job to save your corporation tax money! The gov't expects it! It gives us a competitive advantage! In the end more profits help EVERYONE!" Of course our prof did finish it up with, "can you believe that? We can't do that here in Canada, but it's common in the US - they are trying to fix it though..." But still...it was really sickening to watch. Especially the 'more profits are good for everyone!' part. VOMIT.

[Initech]

28. Corporations are the real criminals in society.

And they've managed to set up just the ideal system that not only allows them to get away with their crimes, but they have a willing media and Congress that is allowing them to get away with it. Wouldn't this be considered treason in most countries?

[mountain grammy]

29. Duke Energy, doing their part to destroy our earth as much as any

greedy, carbon spewing, people killing corporation on the planet.

http://www.southernstudies.org/2014/02/institute-index-duke-energy-coal-ash-spill-latest-.html

[dotymed]

39. Aren't they a subsidiary of PG&E? Sickening either way. eom

[NYC_SKP]

42. No, they are not a subsidiary of PG&E. Duke energy is 50% nuclear.

They aren't even operating in the same parts of the country.

[dotymed]

47. Really Skip?

I lived on the OH/IN border until 5 years ago.
PG&E was in Cincinnati ( a friends wife worked there, her Father was very rich as an executive there), and I got my electric bills from Duke energy.
I also helped build nuclear containment facilities outside of Cincinnati for Duke energy and also rebuilt some cooling towers there.
Radiators on stilts, with treated lumber as its frame and curiously the "fins", everything relied on treated lumber for structural integrity.
"Water" continuously flowed on this lumber (above the "pond&quot and it rotted quickly and had to be replaced continuously. Very shoddy design. The exposure shortened my life-span considerably.
I have previously posted about my post exposure experience with the nuclear (insane energy concept) regulatory commission and their
"middle of the night." this incident never happened, die soon, departure.

[NYC_SKP]

48. I dunno, the PG&E I know is in Northern and Central California.

Maybe they have holdings in Ohio, or maybe it's a different PG&E, like Portland General Electric?

I get power from this PG&E which, afaik, is wholly within California:
http://www.pge.com/en/about/company/profile/index.page?

[dotymed]

50. I got interested and googled it.

PG&E is everywhere. the same corporate person..
I thought they were just in Cincinnati..lol

[NYC_SKP]

54. Share your links, please. I'd be interested to see what you found, I found nothing like that.

I didn't find anything when I searched for PG&E + Cincinnati, for example, except for news pages that had multiple stories.

And, nothing here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Gas_and_Electric_Company

[dotymed]

59. Here you go SKP.

https://www.google.com/search?q=PG%26E%2C+Cincinnati%2C+Ohio&sitesearch=

[NYC_SKP]

60. Nope. None of those indicate PG&E presence in Ohio.

If I'm wrong, please tell me which of the results from your Google search indicate that.

One is about a scam going on, here's a comment:

I got one of those emails awhile ago. Mine came from California telling me to appear in court. Due to the fact I'd recently had a bout with Malware, I deleted it without opening it. I have never been in California, ever.http://www.wcpo.com/money/consumer/dont-waste-your-money/beware-court-notice-and-pge-bill-emails

Another is just a page that has multiple articles:

1 of 10 Sumatran rhinos in captivity dies in Ohio ... The Cincinnati Zoo says the death of its only female Sumatran rhino is a blow to a .... PG&E President Tony Earley said the company has made fundamental changes to its ...http://www.wthr.com/story/25094115/pge-federal-criminal-charges-likely-in-gas-blast

Another is that PG&E is working with a Cincinnati software developer:

This year, PG&E is using new software that’s helping the utility forecast its power needs. That tool, which PG&E helped customize with a Cincinnati software developer, uses customers’ SmartMeter data to make the forecasts even more precise.http://www.pgecurrents.com/2013/10/11/smartmeter-data-helping-pge-accurately-forecast-electricity-needs/

[dotymed]

63. The address indicates (shows) the PG&E location

in Cincinnati.

https://www.google.com/search?q=PG%26E+locations+in+Ohio&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US fficial&client=firefox-a&channel=sb#channel=sb&q=PG%26E+locations+in+Ohio&rls=org.mozilla:en-US fficial&start=10

last link from me. It has become uninteresting. No aspersions on you.

[treestar]

53. The thing is though there are lights on in our houses

They have customers.

[mountain grammy]

57. Customers without an affordable option.. I don't get your point.

Does having customers somehow excuse them? I'm not trying to be rude, I just really don't understand what you mean.

[treestar]

58. They are destroying the earth but so do we

We demand their product. And they will have accidents.

The tax write offs probably are for something supposedly environmental friendly. Not saying they are, but we need to know first.

I'm not defending their negligence in the terrible thing they did, but we all need to step up here somehow. We need cleaner energy and the tax write offs likely speak to that - I've seen in the tax forms they are likely for development of alternatives.

[bhikkhu]

30. It looks like that is factually untrue

If you go to the Duke annual report to share holders (independently audited, compliant with SEC reporting rules, etc) the most recent is the current 2013 report: https://www.duke-energy.com/pdfs/Annual-Report-2013.pdf

You have to wade through to page 87 to get to the critical profit and loss statement, where they list "income before taxes", "Income tax expense", and "net income". The sum for income before taxes for the last three years is about $4.2 billion. The sum of the taxes paid for the last three years is about $1.4 billion...which is a fairly healthy rate.

If you look at page 249 of the 10k cited by the Center for Effective Government, it generally concurs with the amount of taxes paid. It can get very complicated, as there are deferred taxes on foreign business where the money hasn't been "repatriated" yet, and there are various credits and deferred credits, but the amount of tax liability is pretty clear.

I would hope that anyone interested in the topic would take a minute to fact check claims like this. If a corporation is actually paying about the correct tax rate, these days that commendable!

[smiley]

35. Thanks for posting this.

There's a lot of knee jerk reactions on this site when it comes to propaganda from our own side. I don't doubt the existence of corporate welfare, but arguments are best made, when made with facts.

[treestar]

55. It also would be different questions regarding their violation of EPA regulations/laws

and complying with tax laws.

The subsidies could be based on something environmentalists supported.

This needs a lot more thought rather than bandwagon-jumping.

[Enthusiast]

31. Duke energy should be seized by the government because of their environmental damage.

This is something we should consider in the future. Besides, fuck those tax subsidies.

[cntrygrl]

32. Nope, not in the least.

[bigwillq]

33. K and R (nt)

[DeSwiss]

34. That's fascism for ya.

- K&R

[David2775]

38. .

I hope they get investigated! That is just wrong.

[NYC_SKP]

40. Blame congress. Don't blame a business for staying competitive. (not that you are)

It's just that I see people hating on businesses large and small taking advantage of loopholes created by not them, but by Congress.

Hell, congresscritters take advantage of them, too!

[IronLionZion]

41. They're job creators!

You just want to get energy from the middle east you hippie! You job killing socialist!

[PatrynXX]

43. oh Al capone would be like super rich

he wouldn't have to kill anyone in todays crooked game

[NorthCarolina]

44. Taxes are for the little people. nt

[mdbl]

45. Isn't that the truth!

These cities and states give huge tax abatements to these greedy corps to move in and create a bunch of little people tax payers. After they have raped the entire area and leave it in a pile of crap, they pick and move somewhere else to do it again.

[Bobbie Jo]

46. K&R

[Berlum]

49. It's good old fashioned Republicon Socialism

As usual - take from the poor and give to your rich cronies.

[lostincalifornia]

51. what! gambling in Casablanca? I am shocked I tell you shocked

[treestar]

52. What were the subsidies for?

They get tax breaks for things, but wouldn't it be something desirable, like alternative energy and such?

[Octafish]

66. Nationalize Big Energy

Like in the old days, you know, public service commissions can over see the public utilities.

First, let's nationalize the banks, though.