Do YOU support the concept of the "Neighborhood Watch"?

[Denninmi]

Personally, I am VERY opposed to the entire concept. We have police. People today are capable of communicating much more easily than in the past, with cell phones, with cordless phones which are close at hand.

When I heard about the Martin murder in Florida, my initial reaction was "why should ANYONE be subject to being WATCHED in the first place?" Do we really need amateurs like Zimmerman running around out there snooping on the populace?

What business is of it these self-styled "protectors" who too often turn into vigilantes to spy on us?

I say let police do their job, and let us live without being spied on, harassed, or worse.

[lsewpershad]

1. Agreed

Always call proper authority.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

28. That's what neighborhood watches are supposed to be about

[rustydog]

69. That is the entire purpose of Neighborhoos Watch...Being aware and calling the authorities

I was a neighborhood watch participant in the late 70's. We were specifically told to observe only. period.
No one should know what is right or wrong on their street than it's occupant. I have no clue who belongs on the 10th street over in this housing project I live in now and wouldn't try to.

Neighorhood watch works great if it is utilized as it was designed.

[CurtEastPoint]

2. The police cannot be everywhere.

They ASK US to watch out for our neighbors and to CALL THEM (do NOT take matters into your own hands) when something's amiss.

[RZM]

5. Exactly

It would be pretty odd to make the argument that neighbors shouldn't be looking out for each other. And the police encourage it because it works out for them too. If police were solely responsible for every neighborhood, they would catch serious flak whenever anything went wrong.

[ellisonz]

3. What Zimmerman was doing is not really what the Neighborhood Watch program is about. n/t

[IndyJones]

53. That's what I think. I've never heard of a Neighborhood Watch doing what he was.

[Bok_Tukalo]

4. Yes

Neighborhood watches, neighborhood gardens, neighborhood parties, all kinds of things neighborhoodie.

[Warpy]

6. Our watch consists of leaving our porch lights on and calling when we see shady characters who look

like they're casing properties, off the sidewalk and onto the lawn, looking into windows, trying doors, etc. We keep our ears open for sounds of breakins. That's about it, neighbors watching out for each other in a bad part of town.

BUT this neighborhood is also the one that drove out drug houses by banging pots and pans outside all night long while people took down the license plate numbers of anyone who stopped there. Being nonviolent nuisances who drove customers away by giving their plate numbers to the cops encouraged the occupants to move elsewhere.

Wannabes packing guns and tooling around in SUVs are the last thing people here want or need, this area sees enough gunfire from battles between cars on the main drag.

[Vincardog]

7. There is nothing wrong with the principals of the neighborhood watch. 1) No weapons. 2) No

confrontation. 3) observe and report.
What is wrong with everyone watching out for their friends and neighbors?

[Shankapotomus]

8. Whadaya mean?

Like peeping Tom's?

[FrodosPet]

9. My dad always taught me "MYOB"

Don't be a hero, just shut up and get the hell out of the way if there IS trouble. We don't need the drama that comes from confrontation or snitching. Stuff is replaceable. Lives (yours and theirs) and freedom are not.

It's the job of the police to protect us.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

24. Sucks.

I would hate to be your neighbor. Glad I live somewhere with a sense of community. The fact that you would sit by and let someone become victimized because you can't be bothered to call the police is pretty selfish.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

29. "Snitching"

So if you see someone breaking into your neighbor's house, you aren't calling the cops?

[FrodosPet]

32. If I do, I will remain anonymous

And refuse to testify. Why should I risk the lives of myself and my family and friends over a property crime? Around here, people ain't playing. And as a "snowflake on a coal pile", I don't have the luxury of invisibility.

I'm sorry if doing what I need to do to survive in a not-so-nice area offends people, but my brother and roommate's safety is more important than other people's opinions.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

34. Would you testify if it was a case of someone being physically assualted and/or killed?

Because those are the ones that really draw the retaliation.

[Hugabear]

35. Please explain what you mean by "snowflake on a coal pile"

What do you mean by that statement? I have a pretty good idea, but just want to make sure I'm interpreting you correctly.

[FrodosPet]

46. I am a caucasian living in a mostly AA area

A neighbor once called me that. I thought it was funny as well as descriptive.

[Hugabear]

58. So you're afraid they would retaliate because they're black

That's what I thought you meant, thanks for clearing it up.

[FrodosPet]

70. No, because criminals don't like snitches

And in this area of the D I am easy to spot.

Do I want to live in a safer neighborhood? Yes. Do I hate my neighbors because they are black? No, I care deeply about them because I want them to live in peace, prosperity, and safety.

Please, think about it: Detroit Police, understaffed, with a history of corruption. They usually don't even send a car on B&Es - you go to the police station to make a report.

THEY are going to protect me if I turn witness on something relatively minor? I don't like it, I wish it wasn't that way. I wish the rich fucks in Grosse Pointe and Bloomfield would fix the mess they created in The City. My reality sucks, but it is the hand I have been dealt. I'm playing it the only way I know how. which is be quiet, be respectful, make friends, but don't get too close, and stay out of people's shit.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

38. Wow so racist and a coward.

"Snowflake in a coal pile" What the fuck?

And how do you know something is "only a property crime"?

[Whisp]

45. snowflake on a coal pile?

wtf is that?

[FrodosPet]

72. Is Detroit the only place white people are called "snowflakes"?

I've been called that for years, so i guess I am immune to it as a pejorative. Maybe they called me that because I am not only white, but a quiet person as opposed to some loud obnoxious a-hole?

If that term offends, I promise not to use it again. Not trying to make enemies here, just trying to share my experience in the hopes that it can lead to a saner, more peaceful and loving world.

[Whisp]

74. no, not offended.

sorry to react like that and thanks for the explaination and civilness

[pintobean]

60. Jury results.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

Pretty sure this person is a troll, we've been overrun with them lately. Also includes racist terms in his post.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Mar 26, 2012, 06:14 PM, and the Jury voted 1-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: The author isn't willing to play 'Stand Your Ground'. That's their privilege.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: The term "snowflake on a coal pile" is offensive and racist. The point the poster was making could have been effectively made without this term. This would have enabled a far better debate on the issue.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Poster is not calling anyone except himself a name.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Union Scribe]

63. Wish I could act shocked. nt

[Snake Alchemist]

44. Yeah, I once saw a woman being raped so I got out there quick.

Didn't want to be all up in their business.

[belcffub]

82. It's the job of the police to protect us.

uummmm... nope... supreme court ruled on that years ago... the police do not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm...

[appleannie1]

10. If it is done correctly there is nothing wrong with it. Every neighborhood has a busybody anyway.

Being part of neighborhood watch just gives them an excuse to call the police if they see something. They are actually trained in what is suspicious and what is not suspicious and in no instance are they supposed to confront the actor. All they are supposed to do is call police and report. They are trained in what information the police will need to do their job better. Simple. What Zimmerman was doing was not being a neighborhood watch, it was being a cop wannabe without the authority. He was on his own and is giving the neighborhood watch program a very bad name.

[grasswire]

13. Oh Lord. Busybodies have ZERO place in my opinion.

What is this? The Soviet Union in the Cold War era?

Live free!

Live free!

Don't let fear make you relinquish liberties.

[grasswire]

11. I am generally opposed to the nanny state and any quasi-official extensions thereof.

And I am opposed to extensive databases of every facet of modern life.

Why?

Because when dissent is criminalized, the *watching* becomes an arm of the despots and their police state.

And it can happen here. It is happening here.

I am on the side of less watching. Less government and commercial intrusion.

Conservatives used to agree with the stance I take.

[Hugabear]

12. If done PROPERLY, there is nothing wrong with the concept

For example, if you see somebody breaking in to a neighbor's house while they are on vacation, that's one thing.

However, it shouldn't be used to intimidate people just for walking around.

[FrodosPet]

20. Don't start no stuff won't BE no stuff!

Hopefully your neighbors have insurance and /or an alarm system. Even if they don't, stuff is just stuff. So why would you subject your family to possible retaliation by getting involved?

Where I am from - you stay quiet, you stay alive. You play hero...you might get a medal to wear in your casket.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

30. Give me a break.

When I was fresh out of school I lived in a sketchy neighborhood and the girl next door, also fresh out of school (first time on her own) was raped in the middle of the night. Maybe someone saw something suspicious, maybe they didn't. But the fact that you would completely ignore this situation to save yourself any trouble is completely disgusting.


And she wasn't "starting no stuff" either. She didn't deserve it, no one does. When we care more about ourselves than those who are weaker or defenseless our society breaks down.

[FrodosPet]

39. How long did you live in that environment?

Perhaps if you spent most of your life there, you might have a different attitude. Or if the neighborhood was beyond sketchy...

Yes it is TERRIBLE what happened to that lady. And that IS a case where I would speak up - rape, assault of a fragile person, murder. And then I would run like hell, out of state, because people have peeps.

But NO! I am NOT going to endanger my loved ones over property crimes.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

40. dumb.

If you see someone breaking and entering how do you know if its a property crime? You don't! You're either spineless or lazy.

[onenote]

64. A girl I was dating was mugged in front of her own apartment in a "sketchy" neighborhood

They smashed her in the face with the butt of a pistol and took her bag. A neighbor (white) heard the commotion and yelled, which is probably the only reason that they didn't stick around to finish her off. Another neighbor (African American) who didn't even know my girlfriend ran out to see what she could do to help and ended up driving her to the hospital.

I'm so glad you didn't live in that neighborhood. (But then again, my guess is that you actually live in your mother's basement).

[Union Scribe]

62. Lol, you talk like a pulp novel character

Not in the good way.

[Raine]

80. Next time they may be breaking into your place since they already did your neighbors and got

away with it and possibly you or a loved one is in there when they break in. Too bad you didn't report them, now possibly you or a loved one is injuried or dead. Looking out for others often means in the end you did yourself a favor.

[slackmaster]

14. I support freedom of association for any lawful purpose

[TorchTheWitch]

15. Yes

As long as it's done properly through the official group where the volunteers are trained and work closely with the local police. Things have been MUCH better in my neighborhood since the Neighborhood Watch was organized.

Zimmerman received no training, no background check, patroled with a weapon and behaved as a vigilante all of which is precisely contrary to the Neighborhood Watch program.

The police CAN'T know of a problem unless someone alerts them to one. The Neighborhood Watch program is designed to get people interested in doing what a good citizen should be doing in the first place - looking out for their fellow neighbors and alerting the police of a problem so the police can handle it.

[RebelOne]

16. I live in a mobile home park,

and there are "Neighborhood Watch" signs posted throughout the park. I do not know who exactly is the neighborhood watch, but we all watch out for one another.

[LanternWaste]

17. I do...

Of course I do. It's simply a group of neighbors, who know the area, know many of the residents, who simply watch for out of the ordinary activity and report it to the local PD, armed with nothing more than cellphones. Anything (anything) beyond that is not sanctioned by the Natl NW Program. We don't snoop-- we actively look for what everyone passively does-- observe anything out of the ordinary.

In the (nationally sanctioned) program I'm a member of, we have been instructed by local LEO to never, ever (never, ever) confront anyone. If a problem arises, we make a phone call and leave.

Although (and this may sound quite ominous to you), in the past five years we've received training in Disaster and Emergency Response

We're not protectors, vigilantes, spies... or worse. Just a community of people looking out for each other.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

18. Yes.

If someone is messing with me or my family and someone witnesses it I would appreciate them doing something about it.
This whole "mind you own business" and "stop snitching" nonsense is ridiculous. If someone is doing something harmless, I don't care.



But if I look out my window and see someone messing with my neighbors car, or looking in the old ladies window down the street, I'm calling the police.

[badtoworse]

19. Yes, the way it is supposed to work.

[WI_DEM]

21. Yes, because on the whole most neighborhood watch programs are effective

and people do let the police handle them rather than pursue themselves.

[obey]

22. If you see something, say something

[Liberal_in_LA]

23. in California, neighborhood watch seems to mean 'keep your eyes open', not form a militia, march

about with gun, funny hat and boots. not challenge people.

[EFerrari]

27. Our neghborhood watch in Sunnyvale didn't have flashlights, let alone guns.

We never had anything like *this* happen in 30 years.

[TheCowsCameHome]

25. Yes.

[goclark]

26. Our "Neigborhood Association" group meets once a month

For all these years , we have great communication.
We meet once a month.

We have a very quiet neighborhood and everyone is friendly .

Once a year the Sheriff's Dept. invites our neighbood to a BBQ at their station.

They address any concerns and always remind us to contact them immediately if there is the slightest problem.

Last year, a house that had been vacant for a while was "rented" to some man that had loud parties and there were beer bottles and trash all over the street.

It took us about 4 months to get them out of here but it worked. Thanks to our close relationship with the Sheriff's Department.

We don't have any " watchers/citizens" that go around the neighborhood with guns.
NEVER.

Los Angeles

[MineralMan]

31. As long as they only "Watch" and report,

Neighborhood Watch groups are fine. They often prevent criminal activity. What happened in Sanford was not typical of Neighborhood Watch organizations. In fact, it was way outside of their parameters.

[Blue_Tires]

33. Funny because up until this incident when I heard "Neighborhood Watch"

I always thought of some little old lady looking out through a big window or sitting on the porch...Those were ALWAYS the people who had the "Neighborhood Watch" stickers and signs

[Blue_In_AK]

36. We don't sit around here watching people,

but we did call the police when it became obvious that the people across the street were dealing (probably) crack. People were showing up at all hours of the day and night in private cars and cabs, and the perps were posting "watchers" on both ends of our street with cell phones to alert if the police were coming. It also seemed as if some prostitution might have been going on. I'm a live and let live kind of person, but it just got ridiculous. I don't think they were ever busted, but they're gone now, and I'm not sorry.

[sinkingfeeling]

37. I agree. Also if the neighborhood watch did any good, why all the break-ins there?

[PoliticAverse]

42. If the police do any good why is there so much crime?... n/t

[Whisp]

41. yay, I sort of do.

but guns shouldn't be involved, ever ever ever.

a few years ago there were some people setting fires in our back lanes.
so we neighbours got together and had a walk watch up for a while - just a group making a bit of noise at odd hours of the night and it did help.

I suppose the jerks just moved on elsewhere tho

[Quantess]

43. Sure.

As with most things, moderation is the key.

[saras]

47. I support it, and note that Florida's FAILED TO STOP ZIMMERMAN MONTHS AGO WHEN THEY SHOULD HAVE.

People with cell phones ARE Neighborhood Watch. Insane racists with weapons, acting solo, against advice from police, are NOT Neighborhood Watch.

When you see someone crawling in your neighbor's window at 1AM, and you have to decide whether it's the teenage kid or an invader, you're being Neighborhood Watch right then and there. That's ALL they're supposed to do - watch and report.

Zimmerman was a thug with a gun, using Neighborhood Watch as an excuse for those who wouldn't accept his racism as an excuse.

A functioning Neigborhood Watch program would have stopped Zimmerman, long before this incident.
A functional "stand your ground" rule would have allowed Martin to shoot Zimmerman or otherwise kill him in self-defense, as soon as he got out of the care and came after him.

The rules aren't the problem. The corruption and racism of the police department are the problem.

[GopperStopper2680]

48. Doubly Agreed

This is the same reason we no longer have government sponsored militias. Just another outdated and no longer needed concept that does more harm in today's modern world than it does good.

[TheKentuckian]

49. Not in an organized fashion, no. Too many wannabe cops and busybodies for the veneer of

an official capacity.

Neighbors should watch out for each other just as they always have, communicate with each other, and report suspicious activity but the groups can go.

[Warren Stupidity]

50. White Citizens Councils?

99.99% of the time that would be the same thing.

[RZM]

65. That's utterly ridiculous

Neighborhood watch exists all over the place, including in neighborhoods that aren't very white.

Next you're gong to say that McGruff the Crime Dog's trench coat 'might as well have been a white sheet.'

[kudzu22]

51. It's Neighborhood Watch, not Neighborhood Confront

No question Zimmerman strayed far from the "Watch" concept. Only he and Trayvon know what happened that night, but I'm fairly sure it wouldn't have happened if he stayed in his car.

[IndyJones]

52. Our neighborhood watch isn't like that at all. Eveyone reports strange stuff to the police

and we've recently hired an outside firm to monitor the area. But the association really just focuses on keeping the properties up and the area looking nice. No one here is toting a gun walking a beat. That's just weird.

[demmiblue]

54. Some people have police... think Devil's Night in the D. n/t

[grasswire]

55. the fine line of fascism

from wikipedia on citizen informants:

The use of citizen informant networks dates at least as far back as the Roman Empire. Delatores (informants) were recruited from all classes of society, including knights, freedmen, slaves, wealthy families, philosophers, literary men, court officials, lawyers, etc. Similar to the TIPS program, it was an "all hands on deck" approach to empire security. Setups were routine, and informants sometimes received a portion of the land of those who they helped destroy.

More recently the fascist dictatorship of Portugal used the International and State Defense Police (PIDE) as the main instrument of political oppression. It consisted of secret police and a vast network of Bufos (plain-clothed citizen informants), who were apparently on every block. Money and a need for recognition (a pat on the back) motivated them. Second only to the Stasi in its thoroughness, the PIDE neutralized all opposition to the dictatorship.

Other countries have used massive citizen informant networks to destroy perceived opposition to dictatorial rule as well. In Czechoslovakia they served the Czechoslovak State Security (StB), and in Poland they worked for the Ministry of Public Security (MBP). The citizen informants of the State Protection Authority (AVH) ensured the survival of the Hungarian dictatorship. Targets were harassed, threatened, confined to mental institutions, tortured, blackmailed, and framed. Even their friends and family were co-opted to persecute them.

Probably the best recent example of citizens Gang Stalking people on behalf of the state is East Germany. In Germany the plain-clothed citizen informants were called IMs (inofizielle mitarbeiter), or "unofficial collaborators." Unofficial means that they unofficially worked for the Ministry of State Security (MfS), also called the Stasi. For her book, Stasiland, Funder interviewed former IMs, targets, Stasi Psychologists, and professors who trained IM recruiters in Spezialdisziplin (the art of recruiting informants). "The IMs," wrote Funder, "were 'inofizielle mitarbeiter' or unofficial collaborators [plain-clothed citizen informants]."

Funder continued, "In the GDR, there was one Stasi officer or informant for every sixty-three people. If part-time informers are included, some estimates have the ratio as high as one informer for every 6.5 citizens." In his book, Stasi: The East German Secret Police, John O. Koehler agreed that when you add in the estimated part-time IMs, "the result is nothing short of monstrous: one informer per 6.5 citizens."

In Russia, the People's Brigades were told, "We have growing problems in our country with enemies of the state. They operate internally, intending to undermine the authority of our government." Sergei Kourdakov tells how he was used to harass enemies of the state in his book, The Persecutor.(*) These specialized groups were referred to as the Voluntary People's Brigade. They were given a "License to harass," and charged with the "Maintenance of Civil Order."

When they sprung up all over Russia they were directed by plain clothed police on orders from Moscow. The citizens were told that they were part of a "special-action squad" and would be given tasks that the regular police couldn't or didn't have time to handle. They wore regular street clothes, and were convinced that they were ordinary citizens aroused into taking action against undesirables. Their leaders informed them that some of the people they'd be harassing were worse than murderers

[Odin2005]

76. GODWIN!!!

[dkf]

56. Our neighborhood watch caught a ring of drug dealers who were targeting the local high school.

I have to admit I didn't even notice the traffic being generated but the house across the street did. When our neighbor called it in the police botched it up and started surveilling her house. Buncha bozos.

Upon being corrected, they did bust the kids who had rented the house so they could get attend and get access to the public high school.

[cynatnite]

57. We have a neighborhood watch program...

We don't have people patrolling the neighborhood. It's mainly neighbors watching out for neighbors and calling the police if necessary. Of course, this is a very quiet neighborhood, too.

I think it's fine as long as there are strict rules that everyone agrees to follow and there are designated individuals who make the call if necessary. No guns. That is not necessary.

[GeorgeGist]

59. I look out for my neighbors ...

and they look out for me.

[onenote]

61. If people are properly trained and follow their training, I have no problem with it.

Unfortunately, that isn't always the case.

[MrSlayer]

66. I don't have a problem with it.

There is a difference between looking out for your neighbors and playing vigilante.

[JDPriestly]

67. I understand Neighborhood Watch to be just meetings

at which neighbors get to know each other and make friends. After the meetings, everyone watches out for each other.

I've never heard of armed patrols associated with our Neighborhood Watch.

[FSogol]

73. That's my experience too. n/t

[TrogL]

68. I've been involved in something similar

We were issued police radios and drove around town in our own vehicles primarily looking for drunk drivers, rapists and pimps. We were trained in proper radio procedure, traffic control (in case we came on an accident), first aid and crowd control (which came in handy during the cleanup after a tornado). We were told in no uncertain terms:

- you are the eyes and ears - use your radio to report problems
- do not approach
- you may follow discretely but break off and go away if it's causing a problem
- NO WEAPONS

[derby378]

71. In the country, neighborhood watch might be all you have

I've run into some neighborhood watch folks before. They've got their eyes on you, but they tend to be quite reasonable. The watchmen told me the only reason they patrol their communities in the first place is because some kids "from town" thought it would be great fun to burglarize one or two of the houses out in the middle of nowhere.

Ideally, you'd like a deputy or a state trooper around at all times, but there are only so many of them, and they can only do so much.

[Odin2005]

75. I would trust a Neighboorhood Watch more than I trust the Piggies in blue.

The police's job is to protect the elites, as is shown by how they are more concerned with assaulting peaceful protestors and nabbing pot smokers than with actual stopping crimes.

[Cleita]

77. I would prefer police.

However, I once lived in a neighborhood that the police hardly ever visited. It was lower working class and mixed racially. After many burglaries, home invasions, car thefts and other criminal actions with the police barely interested in coming and making at least a report, we formed a neighborhood watch. We painted over gang graffiti as fast as it went up and did note people and cars that might be suspicious. We did notify police when that happened and it did have the result of making the police spend more time in our neighborhood patrolling the streets. The crime rate did go down. However, since our police department was stretched thin by budget constraints, it was all we could do and frankly I resented being an unpaid, part time city employee. I would still prefer a well-funded police department of professionals, who have the time to take care of our streets and are well compensated for putting their lives on the line so the rest of us can go about our business in safety.

[Raine]

78. I'm not for snooping but if you see something suspicious you should report it. nt

[Yo_Mama]

79. It's supposed to be observation/reporting, not participatory

Also Zimmerman wasn't patrolling or anything when this incident occurred. He was on an errand.

I do support them as long as they are observation/reporting. Chasing down, no. It seems clear that Zimmerman frightened the boy and caused an incident where there would have been none, but he also violated the rules that LE teaches for these types of programs, it seems.

Like lighting (which has been proven to reduce crime), a reporting program can help police. These really are supposed to be community based reporting programs rather than unofficial cop programs:
https://www.phoenix.edu/colleges_divisions/criminal-justice/articles/2011/02/the-effectiveness-of-neighborhood-watch-programs.html

http://www.campbellcollaboration.org/news_/crime_falls_neighborhood_watch.php

[SATIRical]

81. Be sure not to pick up any litter you see on the ground

After all, there are people to do that, right?

Everyone always expect "someone else" to do things.

[BiggJawn]

83. Yep, call the cops.

They'll be there in around 1/2 an hour or so.

Around here, we're on our own. But that's a fact of life in a small rural community, and I knew that when I moved here.