Police: Zimmerman says Trayvon decked him with one blow then began hammering his head(!!!)

[Are_grits_groceries]

Last edited Mon Mar 26, 2012, 01:26 PM - Edit history (1)

With a single punch, Trayvon Martin decked the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who eventually shot and killed the unarmed 17-year-old, then Trayvon climbed on top of George Zimmerman and slammed his head into the sidewalk several times, leaving him bloody and battered, authorities have revealed to the Orlando Sentinel.

That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say.
<snip>
In his version of events, he had turned around and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from behind, the two exchanged words then Trayvon punched him in the nose, sending him to the ground, and began beating him.
<snip>
He was visiting his father's fiancée, who lived there. He had been suspended from school in Miami after being found with an empty marijuana baggie. Miami schools have a zero-tolerance policy for drug possession.
<snip>
MUCH MORE:
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_arizona-iced-tea-suv-unarmed-black-teenager

Never heard the marijuana claim before.
A very different story.....
And a self-serving one. Surprised? NOT!

[liberalmuse]

1. Something smells rotten.

Zimmerman looks like a really big guy, so it's hard to believe this rather slender kid was able to overpower him - possible, but not likely. And if someone waived a gun at me, I'd probably do the same - adrenalaine rush and all. How was Martin supposed to know who he was? Sounds like he was fighting for his life if this is indeed what happened. The fact that Zimmerman approached him after being told directly not to by the 911 dispatcher would work against him in a saner state and fairer justice system. I smell bullsh*t.

[Snake Alchemist]

20. A couple of things. Zimmerman did not look like the peak of physical fitness and a punch to the

face is a punch to the face.

Also, are we sure the gun was out prior to the physical altercation?

[mac56]

23. Relevance?

[Snake Alchemist]

24. Saying that someone is bigger than someone does not lesson the impact of a punch to the face.

If I hit a 200lb woman in the face, her weight would not lessen the blow.

[jenmito]

31. If Zimmerman hadn't kept following Trayvon and then gotten out of his car to confront him,

there wouldn't have been any confrontation/fight. And how strange that the original police report had no mention of any fight/injuries to Zimmerman. Also, if Zimmerman WAS so hurt, why didn't the police call an ambulance? Trayvon isn't alive to tell the story of what happened, but we DO have the 911 tape which sure seems to implicate Zimmerman.

[Snake Alchemist]

33. Getting out of a car does not entitle you to hit anyone. Please read the police report before

making comments.

http://sanfordfl.gov/investigation/trayvon_martin.html

[jenmito]

59. Getting out of the car after 911 told him to stop following Trevon means Zimmerman was the aggressor

who was looking to not let Treyvon "get away." Zimmerman whispered "these a**holes always get away" AND called Treyvon a "f'ing coon." The police covered up for Zimmerman. They just let him go! Even a COP is taken off duty after shooting someone. The tape is the only thing we have to go by. If Zimmerman hadn't followed Trayvon, he'd still be alive and Zimmerman wouldn't have to be in hiding. But he was itching to not let "another one" get away.

[Snake Alchemist]

60. Sorry, stepping out of a car regardless of the circumstances does not entitle anyone to hit you.

A lot of that is in dispute. Now if Zimmerman touched him in any way first then it is a whole different story.

[jenmito]

65. He stepped out of the car to confront Trayvon. Trayvon told his girlfriend someone was following

him. That someone was Zimmerman who was on a mission to not let another "one" get away. He previously called 911 over 40 times for trivial reasons. He finally did what he'd been wanting to do for a long time judging by his phone calls.

Once Zimmerman got out of the car and asked Treyvon what he was doing there and Trayvon asked why the guy was following him, I doubt Zimmerman just turned away and left, and then Trayvon attacked Zimmerman. Makes no sense. Sounds like a cover-up story to me.

[Snake Alchemist]

67. "I doubt Zimmerman just turned away and left"

Please call ABC and let them know your analysis. I have no idea what happened, but more keeps coming out.

[jenmito]

77. His 911 call PROVES he was following Trayvon and wouldn't stop even after 911 told him to,

and he said he would. He didn't. He KEPT following him and he eventually got out of the car since the car couldn't go into the development where Trayvon was walking. Who pursued whom??? Zimmerman was the aggressor. "More keeps coming out" from Zimmerman's friends who are alive and able to try to save him from jail.

[Snake Alchemist]

78. Once again, just because you follow someone does not give them the right to hit you. EVER.

Doesn't matter the reason. Now if Z landed a hand on T in ANY way then that is an entirely different matter.

[jenmito]

80. Really? So then why did 911 tell Zimmerman not to keep following him? Could it be because they

KNOW Zimmerman and his RECORD of aggression? And his record of calling 911 obsessively? And his comments about Black teens? TRAYVON had the right to stand HIS ground if he was scared by this guy following him, getting out of his car and following him further, and questioning him.

[Snake Alchemist]

81. Or it could be for his own safety.

Now what is his record of aggression?

[jenmito]

90. Given his record, I doubt it. Here ya go:

Zimmerman had a previous charge in 2005 of "resisting arrest with violence and battery on an officer"[33] while interfering with the arrest of a friend. He subsequently entered a pretrial diversion program, which is not considered a conviction on his criminal record.[34] Zimmerman had previously been accused of domestic violence by an ex-fiancee (Veronica Zuazo), who had filed for a restraining order against him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin

[Snake Alchemist]

92. Charges dropped.

Those Duke Lacrosse players have a record of rape too.

[jenmito]

96. He went to a "diversion program." He did that to avoid criminal charges:

A diversion program in the criminal justice system is a form of sentencing[1] and such programs are often run by a police department, court, a district attorney's office, or outside agency designed to enable offenders of criminal law to avoid criminal charges and a criminal record.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversion_program

This is NOT comparable to the Duke Lacrosse case.

[Snake Alchemist]

97. I see nothing about Zimmerman and a diversion program.

So you're saying that if he took the diversion program then he was guilty? Does every settlement admit guilt?

[jenmito]

98. Read my "Here ya go" post. I quoted it there. n/t

[Snake Alchemist]

100. My wife did a "prayer for judgment" on a traffic ticket that was completely unjust.

It was easier and less costly than trying to fight it. Is she also guilty?

[jenmito]

104. OK-you just lost the argument. n/t

[Snake Alchemist]

105. "which is not considered a conviction on his criminal record"

Except for by you?

[jenmito]

107. Did you read the whole explanation of a diversion program?:

A diversion program in the criminal justice system is a form of sentencing[1] and such programs are often run by a police department, court, a district attorney's office, or outside agency designed to enable offenders of criminal law to avoid criminal charges and a criminal record.[2] The purposes of diversion are generally thought to include relief to the courts, police department and probation office, better outcomes compared to direct involvement of the court system, and an opportunity for the offender to avoid prosecution by completing various requirements for the program.[3] These requirements may include:

Education aimed at preventing future offenses by the offender
Restitution to victims of the offense
Completion of community service hours
Avoiding situations for a specified period in the future that may lead to committing another such offense (such as contact with certain people)[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversion_program

[Snake Alchemist]

109. And? Same as settling. nt

[jenmito]

110. Settling for what reason? Because he did nothing wrong? n/t

[Snake Alchemist]

112. Because it's harder, more expensive, etc to try and fight it. nt

[jenmito]

114. Was he innocent of the charge? Or did he go through the Diversion Program as an alternative to

having a criminal charge and a criminal record?

[Snake Alchemist]

115. No clue. You never know. nt

[jenmito]

116. YOU never know. I DO know because I read why he went through the program. Did Trayvon

ever have to go through this program?

[Snake Alchemist]

117. So if you were an employer and someone went through some sort of program rather than fighting a

charge (traffic, drug, etc.) you would not hire them because it doesn't matter what their record says?

[jenmito]

123. Yup. Going through that program was not something the Duke Lacrosse guys had to do, was it?

Since you're comparing them...

[Snake Alchemist]

124. Not sure there is a program for rape charges. nt

[jenmito]

129. A diversion program in the criminal justice system is a form of sentencing[1]. n/t

[Snake Alchemist]

131. So every company that settles out of court admits guilt?

LOL.

[jenmito]

133. I edited my post to: "A diversion program in the criminal justice system is a form of sentencing[1]"

[joeybee12]

154. Settling is used in civil cases where damages are assesd...

This is more considered a plea bargain...nice try though...you are way out of your league on this.

[Snake Alchemist]

155. So not guilty on criminal history, but guilty in your mind? nt

[Aerows]

152. I see that

false equivalency hasn't gone out of style.

[LiberalFighter]

183. If she wasn't guilty she wouldn't need to pray.

She was praying for a better outcome than what would normally occur.

[blm]

86. Nope - kids are TAUGHT To fight when they're approached by adult strangers.

You might teach your kid to accept whatever a stranger has in mind but, most are taught otherwise.

[Snake Alchemist]

89. I have mine carry a knife and stab anyone in a 20 foot radius. nt

[eustus]

99. Zimmerman was probably doing more than just following.

We know from the 911 tapes that he was uttering profanities under his breath ("assholes! fuckin' coons!&quot , and that that he was determined to detain Trayvon ("they always get away...&quot . Zimmerman may have come running up the sidewalk behind Trayvon brandishing a weapon and muttering profanities at him. Under this scenario, what was Trayvon supposed to do? Turn and run and get shot in the back? No. Trayvon reasonably feared for his life and may have thrown a haymaker in an attempt to disarm Zimmerman, and then jumped on him in an attempt to get the gun.

[Snake Alchemist]

102. I heard he was probably using the dark arts. nt

[DonCoquixote]

160. and if you brandish a GUN?

A gun Zimmerman was NOT supposed to carry under nightborhood watch guidelines?

[Snake Alchemist]

168. Then all bets are off. nt

[nanabugg]

157. So, you can only "stand your ground" with guns and not fists? Wasn't Trayvon standing

his ground if this guy pursued him? Didn't Trayvon have the right to stand his ground because he was afraid of the lumbering white guy following him in a car?

[jenmito]

158. You sure can! Your argument isn't with ME. It's with the poster I was replying to.

Some people are claiming that Trayvon ran after Zimmerman, jumped on him, knocked him down, and beat him up. I just don't believe that for one second. Trayvon WAS the one who had the right to stand his ground-not Zimmerman, who was pursuing Trayvon.

[sudopod]

66. Just stop.

Jesus.

[Snake Alchemist]

69. Sorry, to get in the way of the posse.

Burn the witch!

[sudopod]

71. You're a big damn hero. nt

[HangOnKids]

153. He's A Big Damn Something

Hero isn't exactly the word I would select.

[jwirr]

146. Even someone who has obviously been stalking him? The question here is who was threatening

whom? Trayvon was being followed. Also why did Zimmerman suddenly abandon the chase and turn around to go the other way? There are more questions about this now than ever. Also where are is the evidence of these injuries he say he has? His story needs proof.

[blm]

68. WRONG Snake - EVERY responsible parent and law enforcement instructors urge kids at an early age

that when they are approached by an adult stranger who comes too close for no good reason they are to scream, punch and kick at them to enable them to have a chance to run and get away.

[Snake Alchemist]

72. ROFL. How close? Same thing happened to my wife. Some guy was always lurking around her apartment.

Seemed to always be outside and close to her so I broke his face. Turns out it was just the old man from next door walking his beagle. My wife and I still laugh about it. I think he died from a hospital infection after that.

[blm]

83. Kids are taught that whether you like it or not, Snake. How close did Zimmerman get?

And why did he get close to the kid? How did the kid force Zimmerman out of his car to assault him? Gee.....just can't find any logic in the excuses for Zimmerman.

[Snake Alchemist]

91. You tell me. "How close did Zimmerman get?"

Let's say 30 feet since we have NO idea.

[CatWoman]

119. do you realize just how foolish you look?

[Snake Alchemist]

121. Probably as foolish as the initial defenders of the Duke Lacrosse players. nt

[CatWoman]

134. and I see you keep bringing up Duke

which makes you look even MORE ridiculous, IMO.

[Snake Alchemist]

137. So be it. nt

[Wind Dancer]

164. Why would I believe the police report?

[X_Digger]

36. Actually, the police report mentions injuries, but it's only a partial report..

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin%20Lakes%20Shooting%20Initial%20Report.pdf

(Notice it mentions a bloody nose and back of head, treated on scene by Sanford Fire Rescue.)

And that depends on whether or not you trust the PD.

But yeah, it still falls on Zimmerman. If anything Martin had a right to defend himself if Zimmerman grabbed him, or tried to (illegally) detain him.

[Rex]

163. Well you already have your mind made up...

you tell us...

[Snake Alchemist]

169. Yes, asking questions indicates a made up mind.

Burn the witch!

[RBInMaine]

185. Here is what we DO know:

Zimmerman has prior arrests for violence/threatening related incidents. He had a restraining order taken out against him. Sure, maybe he went to a diversion program to avoid a conviction, but this is a PATTERN with this guy. He was constantly out ALONE looking for "suspicious" people. I have heard the 911 tapes. He PROFILED Trayvon. Classic racial PROFILING. He was armed. He called the cops and has a long history of constantly calling 911 and doing this "patrolling", almost in an obsessive fashion. When he decided to pursue Trayvon he had referred to Trayvon as one of those "assholes that always get away." He also said "fucking coon" under his breath as he began to pursue Trayvon, and that is CLEAR from the tape.

He may have technically had a right to follow Trayvon, but it was BAD judgement. Very, very SHITTY judgement. He pursued him with a mindset that Trayvon was "suspicious" and that this "fucking asshole coon" was "not going to get away." He obviously confronted Trayvon. A struggle then transpired. Zimmerman was not injured enough to need immediate medical attention. After the incident a witness asked Zimmerman what happened. He wasn't screaming for help. He wasn't distraught. He wasn't acting like he just struggled for his life. He calmly, almost dismissively, just said "call the cops". "Just call the cops." He didn't yell that the kid tried to kill him.

So you tell me, who aggravated this? Who was the aggressor here? Trayvon Martin was going home with Skittles and iced tea. He was 17. He was unarmed. From all I hear, he was tall but not heavy. He was 17. The 28 year old Zimmerman was the much older legal adult in this situation, and significantly heavier guy than Trayvon was.

What the facts tell me is that Zimmerman is a power-hungry trigger-happy control freak cop-wannabe with racist attitudes who decided to become aggressive and was obsessed with catching someone, not "letting them get away", and that he was determined to do just that: confront Trayvon and not "let him get away." He went into the confrontation already angry, aggressive, and with racist attitudes, AND with a desire to make a name for himself as someone who caught a "suspicious asshole fucking coon" that he was not going to "let get away." Zimmerman needs to be charged. I am willing to bet anything he STARTED the physical confrontation. This guy needs a manslaughter charge at the very least.

[Snake Alchemist]

186. That is what really scares me. That is a mix of innuendo, conjectiure and just guessing.

Wanting to wait for an investigation now makes you another "enemy".

[RBInMaine]

190. Blind yourself to the FACTS all you want and defend this guy's ROTTEN thinking and judgement all you

want, and keep TROLLING all you want, but the FACTS of what this guy SAID and how he SAID it and what he DID are just that, FACTS. Sure there should be an investigation and a thorough one (unlike what the local cops did), but there is MUCH we already know. And we as intelligent people can certainly draw reasoned conclusions from those FACTS. That is why we have brains. To use them. I have listened to all the 911 tapes repeatedly and interviews from key witnesses. And with 14 years as a COP myself I think I have the standing to draw some intelligent conclusions from these FACTS.

[Snake Alchemist]

195. Just because you type FACTS in all caps do not make them so.

I'll wait for more info.

[RBInMaine]

191. It is a lllllllllong list of indisputable FACTS with well-reasoned conclusions drawn from them.

Don't agree? Then give me your account of the FACTS that you know, and then, if you have ANY intelligence and COMMON SENSE FROM REAL LIFE EXPERIENCE, tell me what you conclude from all that we already know. Or do you not have the ability to reason? Or are you just plain naive and don't know anything about people and their mindsets based on their very own words and actions?

[Initech]

27. Yeah I definitely call bullshit on this.

There's no way in hell a guy as big as Zimmerman would take a punch from Martin and fall to the ground easily - and this is coming from a guy who's something of an MMA fan and knows a thing or two about fighting. This iz a rather lame attempt to drum up sympathy if you ask me.

[guitar man]

145. When I was 17

I weighed about 145 and could knock a lot of full grown men flat of their ass. If I was being stalked and pursued by a creepy guy like Zimmerman I may have finally picked a place to stand my ground and done just that.

The fact remains that Zimmerman was out there chasing down this young man who had done nothing wrong, with no official position or authority to do so.

[elleng]

2. A cool kid who could well defend himself

except against a bully with a gun who follows and shoots him in the back.

[lacrew]

9. Shot in the back?

That's a first for me...where is that reported?

[mac56]

21. Witnesses reported that Trayvon was lying face down.

You decide.

[lacrew]

32. That means very little.

It actually corroborates Zimmerman's story that Martin was on top of him.

I'd prefer not to deal in guesswork...because entirely too much of that has surrounded this case.

[mac56]

37. That corroborates nothing, in fact makes no sense.

But you've already solved the case. We can all go home now.

[sabrina 1]

63. Press reports say he was shot in the chest. Someone on DU yesterday told me that

that would not mean he could not have ended up lying face down. Just adding the available information according to the press. Also, Zimmerman was out of his car for the entire time during and after his call to the police according to reports. When he hung up the phone, it took only 3 or 4 minutes before the fatal shooting. The cops arrived one minute later. The whole tragedy would not have occurred had he followed the instructions of the Dispatcher and gotten back into his truck. He had only to wait 5 minutes for the police to arrive. Instead, he chose to keep following Trayvon.

[lacrew]

127. No....

Others seem to have 'solved' the case....and most of them with very little information.

Refusing to make the unsubstantiated nexus between face down and shot in back does not make me an amateur crime solver.

However, those who make assumed connections like 'he was shot in the back' should stick to their day jobs.

Facts. Thats all anyone should be talking about. All these guesses and rumors are stupid.

I'm not the one making this a 'I've watched too much CSI clownshow'. When the autopsy comes out, we'll know for sure, where he was shot. Before that - any claim he was shot in the back is incredibly irresponsible. Period. No matter how dismissive of me you try to be.

[Johnson20]

144. Thank God, a voice of reason. What

has happened to critical thinking here on DU?

[MrBig]

156. +1

With all of the detectives on this website, I'm surprised any crime remains an unsolved mystery.

[elleng]

174. Martin was on top of him, it appears,

when they were fighting with one-another, around the corner from where the deadly shot was fired. (Hear neighbor's interview.)

[X_Digger]

42. With a 9mm? It's possible.

Many police departments don't use 9mm because it doesn't have enough power to stop an attacker quickly.

Lots of folks are used to seeing the hollywood version of a gunfight where a shot picks someone up and throws them backward through a plate glass window.

If that were true, Newton's third law would mean that the shooter would *also* be thrown into the air, in the *opposite* direction.

[lacrew]

136. 9 mm can stop a man

I worked with somebody who retired from the Air Force. Near the end of his career, he was part of the committee that oversaw the selection of a new service pistol - to replace the .45.

I will always remember the story, because of the interesting criteria. It was an era when we were still flying spy missions over the arctic and the Soviet Union. The concern/criteria was that the pistol would have to have enough energy to stop a polar bear (downed pilot scenario)

And, they chose a 9 mm Beretta.

[X_Digger]

138. Can? Sure. It's also about shot placement.

A 9mm would also give you quicker follow-up shots (generally). I'd think that'd be especially important when dealing with wildlife.

It's just that a lot of folks get their gun / shooting / wounding knowledge from TV and the movies. That's also how you end up with 'shoot if out of his hand', 'the sound of a shotgun racking will scare away burglars' (nevermind that you were either running empty or just wasted a shell, and you just give away your position), etc.

And that's not really a bad thing overall- I think we'd all wish that fewer folks knew what it was like to shoot someone or be shot. Just don't try to carry that TV knowledge into a real discussion, ya know?

[itsrobert]

147. The Berreta replaced the .38

Retired Air Force cop/ 26 years of service.

[lacrew]

159. Understood...but the .45 was also considered

They went with the 9mm because:

a. It could stop the polar bear
b. NATO approved of the 9mm for compatibility reasons

BTW, my friend was an SP...probably 1968ish to 1988ish, named **** Kennedy.

[itsrobert]

165. yes the .45 was considered

The .45 was in limited use in the Air Force.

[obamanut2012]

184. 9mm is considered a defensive round

[elleng]

172. Don't know if its 'reported' any where,

but interview w neighbor/witness, under whose window Trayvon lay, stated he was face down. (Posted here yesterday.)

[slackmaster]

51. The wound on Trayvon's back may be an exit wound. Typical 9 mm ammo has an over-penetration issue.

A fully jacketed 9 mm bullet fired from a handgun is likely to go all the way through a target without expanding sufficiently to stop. That reduces the overall damage to the person who is shot, and reduces the likelihood of effectively stopping the person.

[elleng]

173. He lay face down, according to neighbor

under whose window he succumbed. (Video of interview at DU yesterday.)

[Robb]

3. Pot? Well, good thing someone shot him, then!

Do I need the sarcasm smilie?

[Rex]

48. This is getting ridiculous, now the kid had drugs AND

evidently is a melee master!!!

What next?

He was chasing Zimmermans car and throwing skittles!?!

Can't wait to see what the FBI finds out.

[mac56]

4. If he became bloody and battered

are there corroborating records from an ER visit? Isn't that standard operating procedure? Woudn't a neighborhood watch captain know that?

This stinks to high heaven.

[lacrew]

11. The police report

It states that he was treated for bleeding from the head, by paramedics. No mention, however, of the broken nose.

[mac56]

13. okay

[onenote]

26. Actually, the police report says he was bleeding from the back of the head and from the nose

Not that Zimmerman having been injured exculpates him. There is still the question of who initiated the altercation.

[TorchTheWitch]

125. We know who initiated the altercation - Zimmerman

It's all right there on his own 911 call and in his own words - he chased Martin down and confronted him even though he was told not to. Even if Martin did get into a physical fight with Zimmerman and was the one who started that it still doesn't matter because Florida's Stand Your Ground law ALLOWS him to defend himself from an aggressor. There is no question whatsoever that it was Zimmerman who was the aggressor. None.

It doesn't MATTER if Martin was the one to strike the first blow, the law ALLOWS him to because he reasonably feared for his safety, and according to both Zimmerman's 911 call and Martin's girlfriend that was on the phone with him at the time Martin DID first attempt to retreat even though the law says he didn't have to. It was only when Zimmerman caught up with him that words were exchanged and a physical altercation came about.

The police had a duty to thoroughly investigate the incident which they did not. The Stand Your Ground law does not erase any duty of the police to thoroughly investigate. And the police should also have already known that the Stand Your Ground law did not apply to Zimmerman because they already knew from his 911 call that HE was the aggressor. That all by itself should have made them leary of Zimmerman's story and prompted them to investigate extra thoroughly. Instead, DESPITE their knowing that it was Zimmerman who was the aggressor they took his story at face value and not only didn't investigate thoroughly but attempted to investigate in such a way as to prove Zimmerman innocent of any wrongdoing.

[Javaman]

150. +1 nt

[dkf]

171. It doesn't matter who threw the first blow? I thought that is all that matters in terms of the law.

Am I off base here?

[LynneSin]

5. I'm sure when Zimmerman confronted him and tackled him that Martin defended himself....

I mean it's not a fair fight. Zimmerman looks to have about 75-100lbs on Martin; however, Zimmerman also has that gun but hell, perhaps there is a danger I'm not aware of with Skittles candy.

But at that point I would say if Martin did hit Zimmerman like the witness said then technically isn't Martin also doing a 'Stand Your Ground' which is doing everything in his power to survive this attack?

[X_Digger]

44. Yup, that blows Zimmerman's defense if he tried to detain or tackled Martin. n/t

[WI_DEM]

6. Now where did the pot story suddenly come from? before it was tardies

[librechik]

7. an empty plastic bag is not evidence of MJ, even if true

they are clearly desperate

[Ganja Ninja]

29. That and he tested negative for drugs. n/t

[eustus]

57. We don't know that he tested negative for drugs.

The autopsy results are not back yet.

[CatWoman]

176. well just dig him up and string his corpse up then

[Life Long Dem]

8. Where was the body found in relation to the beating?

Was the shot wound in the back?

[WI_DEM]

12. good question--

if Trayvon was banging Zimmerman's head into the cement as is claimed and Zimmerman pulled out his gun and shot him point blank it should be pretty evident. Also, isn't there a 911 call with somebody in background (I'm thinking Trayvon) pleading for their life???

[Life Long Dem]

17. Right.

If Trayvon's body lay a distance from where the head banging beating took place, then this can show Trayvon was walking away from the fight and was shot.

[Quixote1818]

34. The lady witnesses say the fight was three houses down then Zimmerman followed him

then he was shot in her back yard after they heard a boy crying for help. Even Zimmerman says he broke free and then shot Trayvon.

[Life Long Dem]

47. If that's what happen then that doesn't sound like self defense.

The location of the fight and where the boy lay dead will tell a lot.

[Hugabear]

10. I'm calling bullshit on this.

I'm very suspect of some of these "witnesses" - how many of these are simply trying to protect one of their own? They've had long enough to get together and corroborate their stories.

[lacrew]

18. http://sanfordfl.gov/investigation/trayvon_martin.html

That link has the initial police reports, as well as audio from the 911 calls.

This is information, from just minutes after the event.

Some of it is contradictory; and, it certainly leaves alot of unanswered questions...but it is information that came out before any chance of corroboration.

[zbdent]

28. why didn't they try to keep the situation from escalating???

[Comrade Grumpy]

14. Nice work, Orlando Sentinel! Now we know Trayvon was a crazed marijuana addict.

That explains everything! From the article:

Trayvon was visiting his father's fiancée, who lived there. He had been suspended from school in Miami after being found with an empty marijuana baggie. Miami schools have a zero-tolerance policy for drug possession.

Zimmerman called police and reported a suspicious person, describing Trayvon as black, acting strangely and perhaps on drugs.

---------

Nice juxtaposition. Very impressive. Must be a graduate of the Goebbels School of Journalism.

[yesphan]

19. I guess my kitchen

cabinet is full of empty marijuana baggies. The grocery store has an aisle dedicated to empty marijuana baggies.
Yep, this story stinks.

[Hugabear]

49. You are clearly unaware of the difference between regular baggies and marijuana baggies

If a black person is holding it, it's a marijuana baggie.

If a white person is holding it, it's just a baggie.

[yesphan]

95. They should put a warning lable on the damn box.

[ellisonz]

106. Not saying the story is true...

...but most head shops carry special baggies with designs and patterns in various sizes, although not ziploc size.

[Blue_Tires]

46. I'm pretty disappointed to read that from the OS

The reporter's "spin" is a little too hard, and I'm surprised the editor went ahead with this...I'm also surprised they ran with clearly 'secondhand' leaked info from Zimmerman's police statement without clearly saying so...Either print his entire statement verbatim or hold off...

[Blue_Tires]

15. That's Zimmerman's "official" story

I'm guessing his statement he gave to police that night has been leaked to the Sentinel...I'd like confirmation of it, though, and I want to read his FULL statement, not just cherry-picked details

The "...and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses" throwaway line just means: "witnesses all say they heard sounds of a scuffle and a gunshot"

[Cali_Democrat]

16. The witness saw the scuffle

I don't think the witness says that he saw Trayvon attack Zimmerman from behind.

[Quixote1818]

40. He didn't and the other witnesses just said they were wresteling on the ground.

It doesn't sound like the one witness watched very long. He went up stairs to call 911 and when he looked out again everything was over.

[freshwest]

22. OMG, the all powerful black man argument. Magical powers, the force is with them, you know.

Martin was kind and responding in kind.

If this testosterone driven thug had closed in on a woman, she'd might have kicked him where it did the most good.

In that case, he would not have drawn his gun.

How would this story have read, if it was a woman he'd gone after?

People really should behave themselves.

[Mr Dixon]

25. SMH

Substitute weed for PCP and you have a common Police explanation, Complete BS.

[Quixote1818]

30. The witnesses the police ignored said the fist fight was well over

and Zimmerman followed Martin to her back yard, three houses down in the directon of HIS OWN house where the boy was heard crying for help and then was shot. When you throw rocks at a hornets nest and get stung you don't have the right to burn down the whole nest.

[uponit7771]

56. +1

[bullwinkle428]

35. I love how the RW narrative has turned this kid into the second coming of Chuck Norris.

[uponit7771]

58. +1

[bpj62]

38. Autopsy

If Treyvon Martin really beat the crap out of George Zimmerman then his hands should have been bloodied and scratched up. he would also have DNA from Zimmerman under his fingernails. Has the formal autopsy been released yet. I know they ran a tox screen on Martin. The more information that comes out the more it seems that the Sanford Police Department completely botched up the crime scene as well as the witness reports.

[slackmaster]

39. Trayvon was killed on a Sunday. The suspension, regardless of the reason for it, is a red herring.

[Ganja Ninja]

41. So according to the Sanford Police in this article.

If you go out and pick a fight with someone and find yourself on the losing end you can pull out a gun and shoot them even when their unarmed.

Somehow I don't think that's how the law works.

If two guys in a bar get into a fight and one of them is armed with a gun and shoots the unarmed guy is he then innocent as long as he was losing the fight? I don't think so.

[uponit7771]

45. +1, that's the SYG law in full effect

[X_Digger]

54. Actually the law covers such a situation..

[div class='excerpt']776.041 Use of force by aggressor.

The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or

(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:

(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or

(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

aka, if you picked a fight in a bar, were getting you're ass kicked and then clearly tried to disengage, but your co-combatant kept pummeling you- then you could use self-defense.

[Xyzse]

79. So Basically

Any punk chicken hawk could start up a fight, get beat down and expect to be able to shoot during the heat of the moment citing that they are too much of a p--sy and can't handle what they started.

If that is the case, Martin's fault is that he didn't kill Zimmerman when he had the chance. That law needs to be amended. I understand the need to be able to stand one's ground but this is inexcusable.

[X_Digger]

93. No, getting into a fist fight shouldn't be fatal, is the way I read it.

You don't get to chase down the chicken hawk and continue to beat on him if he stops.

Most states have laws similar to this, regardless of 'stand your ground' or 'castle doctrine'.

[Xyzse]

108. Agreed on this count however...

It doesn't seem that on this count the Z guy to run either.

Even if he was legally qualified to confront or follow the guy, in doing so he is not standing his ground, he pursued. As per mentioned, Martin's fault was that he was not fast enough to take out Z before he got shot. He arguably WAS defending himself from a stalker.

Whomever survives can cite being on the "Defensive".

Note also that there are fists considered dangerous weapons. Fist fights can be fatal.

[X_Digger]

118. Agreed.

A lot will hinge on whether or not evidence shows Zimmerman confronting / detaining / tackling / striking Martin.

I'd think that is the point where his defense falls apart.

Agreed on the fists part- there's a concept called 'disparity of force' -- a 250lb man swinging at a 100lb retiree would likely be considered use of deadly force. Or if there were 3 against 1, etc.

[Xyzse]

120. That is actually all I am waiting for

It could go either way, I just think they need to clarify that law. Too much possibility of misuse.

[Rex]

43. So now Trayvon had drugs at school and is a melee master...

The cops wanted so badly to find drugs in Trayvons body...funny how they didn't test the guy that murdered the kid. Well not funny, this is the nastiest coverup I've ever seen. And for the record, they found no drugs and the official reason he was suspended from school was NOT from having an 'empty pot bag' (they call those ziplock bags and are used to carry sandwiches too...what a surprise).

I am beginning to wonder if the entire PD does not need to be replaced. I cannot wait to hear what the FBI turns up.

[Aerows]

50. I would have fought back

against someone that followed me in a car, got out of it, then pursued me further. I would have assumed I was about to get robbed, raped or killed.

Why are the rules suddenly different here? If Trayvon was a white female, would there be a different situation?

[slackmaster]

52. My inclination would be to run like hell

[Are_grits_groceries]

55. If I'm being followed by an unknown male at night

and I don't know him, all bets are off. If I was minding my own business, it would be very scarey. I would try to hurt him and hurt him badly if necessary.
He thought Trayvon was up to no good, but he was just as sinister snd much more lethal.

[Snake Alchemist]

61. Happened to me and my wife. Guy looked really suspicious always lurking around so I broke his

face. Turns out it was just an old man walking his dog. My wife and I still laugh about it.

[mac56]

70. - - -

You laugh about this? And you brag about this?

[Snake Alchemist]

74. It was a funny story. I think he died of MRSA contracted while he was in the hospital.

Can't be too careful though.

[mac56]

76. There are no words.

[leftynyc]

82. Never occured to you to call the police?

Not that I believe one word you write is the truth.

[Snake Alchemist]

87. Occurred so quickly. Guy seemed to be following us and looked suspicious.

He went down like a sack of dirt.

You never have the right to hit anyone for following you or getting out of a car.

[mac56]

94. Keep posting.

Seriously, don't stop.

[Rex]

162. Zimmerman got out of his car and became the aggressor in the situation

but you know all this already.

[Snake Alchemist]

170. Getting out of your car does not make you an aggressor.

Sorry, you do not give someone a right to hit you when you exit a vehicle. nt

[leftynyc]

189. My sympathies to your wife

You're fooling nobody with your made up story and it must be hard for your wife to married to someone so unbelievably lame.

[mac56]

88. +1

[Bluerthanblue]

111. not the same- your wife, I'm assumint is an adult, and she wasn't being

followed by a man in a PU truck who demanded to know who she was.

If she was a 17yr old, in that neighborhood and she'd responded by fighting Zimmerman the way Trayvon is alleged to have done, I would support her just as I do Trayvon. And if she'd been shot dead, and the Zimmerman was not facing charges as a result, I'd hope you'd be demanding a trial as well.

You punched the guy out. Defending your wife. Who defended Trayvon? Who was, like it or not, a child. He couldn't have legally had a concealed weapon at age 17. Zimmerman could and did.

If he hadn't carried his gun into this situation, I doubt very much that most people would ever know Trayvon Martin or George Zimmerman existed.

[Snake Alchemist]

113. Once again, you do not have the right to lay a hand on ANYONE unless they lay hand on you or are

pointing a weapon at you. Asking who you are does not give you that right.

[Bluerthanblue]

139. we don't know whether Zimmerman touched Martin

or whether his gun was in his hand or still in his pants.

We do know that Trayvon felt threatened, and that Zimmerman was pursuing him. He admitted it on the 911 call.

If Trayvon had run, don't try and tell me people wouldn't be saying that it proved he had something to hide.

He was a 17yr old black male being pursued by a man 10yrs his senior driving a truck, and possibly displaying a gun. Zimmerman didn't identify himself as an authority figure- he didn't show a badge, or explain his agressive behaviour.

Unfortunately we can't get Trayvon's side of the story.

[Snake Alchemist]

140. No we do not. Those are good questions. nt

[Lizzie Poppet]

141. That depends very much on your jurisdiction.

In many, there is abundant case law supporting the right to use force against someone posing a clear, imminent threat.

Which makes perfect sense. For example, I'm quite small (5'3", 111lbs). If I'm confronted by a 6', 200lb male and I'm expected to wait for him to grab or punch me before I use force in my defense, then I've already lost. And I hope it goes without saying that I would violate without a second thought any law that told me that's what I had to do.

Yes, this does create a situation in which it might well be a case of "survivor tells the story." But what reasonable, ethical alternative to that is there?

Oh, and yes, in the above scenario, I might very well try to run away...but only if I thought I could outsprint the assailant.

[Snake Alchemist]

142. What if your 5'3" ex-girlfriend was following you (5'11" 180lb) and your current girfriend? nt

[irisblue]

132. snake a serious question from me

because i can only read your typed resposnes, i cannot see your facial features, hear your vocal tones, or see your body language. i cannot hear/see the sarcasm that woul belie the typed response here. i can only read your typed words. please tell me, because i amy limited to those typed responses that you did not break facial bones of an elderly neighbor who was walking his dog; that you and your wife do not find humor in the death, in hospital of an eldery man from an infection caused by facial fractures. and i am asking with out any irony and in a neutral voice of curosity

[Snake Alchemist]

135. No, of course not.

I was just pointing out that you do not have the right to physically assault someone that is following you. I did once have an ex-girlfriend follow me in college briefly, but her face is intact too.

[mac56]

177. So you made up that whole story?

Seriously?

[Snake Alchemist]

178. i thought it was over-the-top enough to be recognized as such. nt

[mac56]

180. Not over the top. Pathetic.

[Snake Alchemist]

181. I once saved the Queen with my time machine too. nt

[mac56]

182. Hope you're enjoying yourself.

Making shit up while dragging Trayvon's name and reputation through the slime.

When you have to make shit up to prove your point, you already lost the debate.

EPIC FAIL

[ThomThom]

149. you should be arrested and sued for damages

you would be wise to keep this to yourself

[Aerows]

151. You should be ashamed of yourself

Making light of people defending themselves.

[aptal]

75. Yeah, it wouldn't be in the news.

[stopbush]

53. This is all about muddying the waters and casting aspersions on Trayvon.

Zimmerman & the cops thought they were in the clear when the lone aspersion was "well he was a black kid (ie: so what did you expect?)." They thought that was all they needed to say.

But the public didn't buy it, so they've gone to Plan B, which is piling on with further aspersions that play into the racist view of black kids. It doesn't matter if any of it is true. The racists/haters will latch onto the negative "facts" until the cows come home, no matter how often and thoroughly those "facts" are debunked.

They're looking to create a gray area that will be bolstered when it's announced that Zimmerman won't be prosecuted due to Florida's SYG law.

[Snake Alchemist]

62. Same way they muddied the waters in the Duke lacrosse case. nt

[Wind Dancer]

166. Apples and oranges.

But you knew that already!

[Snake Alchemist]

167. Considering no one knows the full facts of this case including you and me we cannot know what type

of fruit we are dealing with.

[Rex]

64. And since the victim is dead and cannot verbally defend himself

expect it to get a lot worse. There will be no arrest of Zimmerman...not unless the FBI does it. It has become pathetically apparent that the local PD will do ANYTHING to protect Zimmerman and themselves too. Maybe the PD needs a new staff.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

143. that second part of your post kind of reminded me of this scene

"

" frameborder="0"

I would have added the scene straight after with all the different 'bad' news and how people started scoffing at the news, but couldn't find it.

[LanternWaste]

84. Strange that.. what with all the practice fighting he'd already had.

Seems that Zimmerman obviously didn't learn much of the fine art of pugilism from his felony assault on a police officer and his two domestic violence charges

Strange that.. what with all the practice fighting he'd already had.

[Drunken Irishman]

85. Good. I would've done the same if some asshole was stalking me...

Martin was only defending himself from a raving loon. Turns out, Martin probably should've done more than just deck him. Maybe if he would've shot Zimmerman, he'd be alive today.

[spanone]

101. last man alive tells the story....shitty, shitty law.

[gkhouston]

103. Wow, that's a pretty big pile of bullshit. Still not quite enough to cover their asses. n/t

[WI_DEM]

122. So Zimmerman stalks the kid and he defends himself and Tr ayvon is the bad guy?

[workinclasszero]

126. BS!

The only proof we have about this case shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that Zimmerman was the aggressor from the beginning of this execution until the moment he was standing over the dead body of Trayvon!

I not taking the word of a racist killer on anything that for damn sure! He murdered a boy armed with ice tea and skittles!

CASE CLOSED!

[barbtries]

128. show me the pictures

of his injuries. maybe a copy of the ER bill? never heard anything about an ambulance for the shooter. give me a break. i don't believe this for a minute.

[Iggo]

148. Agreed. Pics or it didn't happen. (n/t)

[craigmatic]

130. I knew it zimmerman was butthurt because he got his ass kicked and pulled out a gun after it was

over. This is such a punk move.

[Cass]

161. If his head was "slammed" into the sidewalk several times, he would have needed to be checked out at

the hospital. The article says he was seen by paramedics at the scene and got medical care the next day. I am not buying this head slamming claim.

[DeltaLitProf]

175. Best point of the entire thread!

This is why the story told by Zimmerman's supporters just doesn't add up.

[mac56]

179. +1

[donheld]

187. You'd think he'd be afraid to say that

He let a skinny little guy beat him down? If it doesn't make sense it isn't true.

[DonCoquixote]

188. OK,here is why I call BS

Let us say that Mr. Zimmerman was indeed injured. Any compotent PD knows that if you do not offer to have the person taken to the ambulance, you are opening the door for a nice fat lawsuit. Let's say Z was indeed injured, if he died that night, the police could be SUED. That is why it is standard procedure to offer people injured medical care..

[X_Digger]

192. If you believe the police report, he was treated at the scene by SFRescue

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin%20Lakes%20Shooting%20Initial%20Report.pdf

But after being treated at the scene, he was taken to the police station for questioning.

[fascisthunter]

193. then he pulled out his super-duper ray gun..

... and zapped Zimmerman in the area his balls were supposed to be.

[Devil_Fish]

194. and under the "Stand your ground" law was compleatly justified in trying to protect himself from a

racist stalker.

[treestar]

196. If his head had been pounded several times

Then how could he still shoot. How could he pull the gun out and shoot? And not miss?