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malaise

(269,022 posts)
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 06:27 AM Mar 2014

So the Egyptian Court sentenced over 500 Muslim Brotherhood supporters to death

Never forget that the Muslim Brotherhood are the democratically elected government of Egypt and the West never supports coups.

This is 'effin' madness.

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So the Egyptian Court sentenced over 500 Muslim Brotherhood supporters to death (Original Post) malaise Mar 2014 OP
oh now, just Democracy in action... reddread Mar 2014 #1
I think America needs a time out in a big corner....it IS madness. nt snappyturtle Mar 2014 #2
Who are the good guys and the bad guys? FrodosPet Mar 2014 #30
Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius FarCenter Mar 2014 #37
"Kill them all for the Lord knoweth them that are His” (2 Tim. ii. 19) snappyturtle Mar 2014 #39
That's why we must look at each issue, JimDandy Mar 2014 #58
Our whole policy is to keep the peace in the region and make it safe for Israel. Jesus Malverde Mar 2014 #62
Where are the people who supported the seizure of power by these fascistic generals? another_liberal Mar 2014 #3
The Nation magazine just put out a good article go west young man Mar 2014 #7
Thanks for this malaise Mar 2014 #13
Thanks for all the info go west Jesus Malverde Mar 2014 #24
Your welcome... go west young man Mar 2014 #40
Facts kills these neocons. Jesus Malverde Mar 2014 #41
I'm no fan of McCain, but... Scootaloo Mar 2014 #56
duh Jesus Malverde Mar 2014 #60
Calling those who support the Junta, one two three... Scootaloo Mar 2014 #4
It barely counts, though. JoeyT Mar 2014 #9
While 500 dead Muslim Brotherhood is an excellent start, I hardly have the right to take bows. ieoeja Mar 2014 #44
Oh, i'm sorry ieoeja! Scootaloo Mar 2014 #46
Haha. Snark is so appropriate sometimes. n/t JimDandy Mar 2014 #50
Oh my, that is embarrassing LittleBlue Mar 2014 #55
Damn!!! malaise Mar 2014 #69
Something is wrong about this. Enthusiast Mar 2014 #5
they just want to commemorate My Lai reddread Mar 2014 #6
Precisely malaise Mar 2014 #12
It appears the knee jerk reaction of Americans, including far too many DU folk, Fred Sanders Mar 2014 #8
Indeed. Jesus Malverde Mar 2014 #16
id work those marks a little reddread Mar 2014 #17
Recommend. Jefferson23 Mar 2014 #10
LBN thread for details: muriel_volestrangler Mar 2014 #11
Hitler was democratically elected too, but I suppose we can invoke Godwin, since Hitler just wanted Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #14
And George Bush was not malaise Mar 2014 #15
Eternally Spring time for "He's a Hitler" reddread Mar 2014 #18
Bush left office at his constitutionally appointed time Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #19
Bush did not win the 2000 elections malaise Mar 2014 #21
Which, while true, has nothing to do with what I wrote. Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #31
and his policies remained in place reddread Mar 2014 #29
Just substitute BFEE for MB... freebrew Mar 2014 #33
Which is so mystifying and disheartening. Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #38
I think you misconstrue peoples intentions.... go west young man Mar 2014 #43
Cutting off Egypts gas supply to Israel probably did it. Jesus Malverde Mar 2014 #63
Breathlessly wrong. Fred Sanders Mar 2014 #23
In other words Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #28
Oh, that's great... Scootaloo Mar 2014 #47
Hitler actually lost the presidential election of 1932 Art_from_Ark Mar 2014 #89
The Muslim brotherhood is fundamentalist movement Jesus Malverde Mar 2014 #20
^this Marrah_G Mar 2014 #22
Morsi was a moderate who renounced his MB membership and did not attempt Fred Sanders Mar 2014 #26
Fuck Morsi and his supporters...everywhere. malaise Mar 2014 #25
If your asking me to defend and be upset over a bunch of femalegenital mutilating religious fanatics Jesus Malverde Mar 2014 #32
Bwaaaaaaaaaah - your breath-taking arrogance is amazing malaise Mar 2014 #34
I guess secular democratic institutions are frightening to some. Jesus Malverde Mar 2014 #35
Like which ones malaise Mar 2014 #36
It's a conundrum. How can you have a democratic system CJCRANE Mar 2014 #51
I think it is a conundrum by in a different way... Jesus Malverde Mar 2014 #61
They were not jihadist. CJCRANE Mar 2014 #64
people who think mass executions are ok G_j Mar 2014 #83
The Saudis are against the MB. CJCRANE Mar 2014 #49
Which of the 529 people sentenced to death are "femalegenital mutilating religious fanatics"? Scootaloo Mar 2014 #52
I'm all for building up civil institutions and transition to secular democratic institutions Jesus Malverde Mar 2014 #65
What happens when "secular" and "democratic" are opposed to one another? Donald Ian Rankin Mar 2014 #66
If thats what it takes to protect secular institutions, religious minorities, women and gay rights. Jesus Malverde Mar 2014 #67
So you advocate mass murder of Tea Party supporters? Scootaloo Mar 2014 #70
If they took over the house, senate and the white house Jesus Malverde Mar 2014 #72
What about if they simply voted for the politicians? Scootaloo Mar 2014 #74
In which case I suggest you stop using the word "democratic" Donald Ian Rankin Mar 2014 #75
Through murder of political opposition and imprisonment of journalists on death sentence charges? Scootaloo Mar 2014 #68
Not really Jesus Malverde Mar 2014 #71
Stop exploiting minorities to cover your bloodthirst, please Scootaloo Mar 2014 #73
Two day trial, no defence evidence your version of justice? Fred Sanders Mar 2014 #27
One person, one vote, one time. grahamhgreen Mar 2014 #78
Yeah, that was a joke of a kangaroo court sentence... Blue_Tires Mar 2014 #42
Can we say genocide? WhiteTara Mar 2014 #45
This isn't genocide Scootaloo Mar 2014 #57
The United Nations, US, EU and Amnesty International have condemned this malaise Mar 2014 #86
That's awful. JimDandy Mar 2014 #48
Once again, we see why we have no business meddling MineralMan Mar 2014 #53
+1,000 malaise Mar 2014 #54
Egypt's wonderful, peaceful revolution was hijacked. So sad to watch, they lost 800 innocent lives sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #59
Apparently over 700 more will be sentenced Tuesday. dipsydoodle Mar 2014 #76
Horrific and yes, it should be. n/t Jefferson23 Mar 2014 #77
Tuesday 25th - Egypt puts Muslim Brotherhood leader, 682 others on trial. dipsydoodle Mar 2014 #85
Thanks malaise for starting this thread. From Real News Network: Jefferson23 Mar 2014 #79
This malaise Mar 2014 #80
I know, I read some of the responses..a lot of ignorance on the situation has been posted, sad. Jefferson23 Mar 2014 #81
Glad to see that malaise Mar 2014 #82
Oh yea..that's been made clear. n/t Jefferson23 Mar 2014 #84
U.N. says mass Egyptian death sentences contravene international law dipsydoodle Mar 2014 #87
US and EU as well malaise Mar 2014 #88

FrodosPet

(5,169 posts)
30. Who are the good guys and the bad guys?
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 09:26 AM
Mar 2014

The Muslim Brotherhood was originally elected. So we should support them.

But they are religious fundamentalists - we cannot support another Sharia state.

But over 500 are going to be executed, mainly for their political views. So we should support them.

But those political views are largely the opposite of progressive views - veiled women, execution of gays...

IIRC, the U.S. was supporting the MB. But now it is accused of supporting the coup.

Can someone please help me understand who we should be supporting over there, and why?

snappyturtle

(14,656 posts)
39. "Kill them all for the Lord knoweth them that are His” (2 Tim. ii. 19)
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 10:39 AM
Mar 2014

I'd like to think human beings had evolved more over the last eight hundred years but....
I guess not.

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
58. That's why we must look at each issue,
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 05:07 PM
Mar 2014

instead of mindlessly supporting a country/party/person all of the time, because situations are nuanced. The same applies here in the US even with our own party and president.

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
62. Our whole policy is to keep the peace in the region and make it safe for Israel.
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 06:20 PM
Mar 2014

If that means supporting a brutal dictatorship in Egypt we have done that and will continue to do that.

Egypt is a huge country that could explode into a giant mess if granted the ability to chart their own course.

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
3. Where are the people who supported the seizure of power by these fascistic generals?
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 06:52 AM
Mar 2014

This is what you can get, my friends, when you support the violent overthrow of democratically elected governments: officially-sanctioned mass murder as a means of controlling political opposition.

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
24. Thanks for all the info go west
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 09:13 AM
Mar 2014

And your other OP's, slaying neocons isn't easy, but we've seen it, they can be forced to retreat and call off their offensives.

Every day they are weaker and not gaining strength.

 

go west young man

(4,856 posts)
40. Your welcome...
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 11:27 AM
Mar 2014

it's obviously a tough debate here at DU. In my mind the "enemy" that's the biggest danger to the current United States is the one calling the shots behind the scenes. The one Bill Moyers recently did a full expose' on. The MIC, the "Think Tanks' (talk about a play on words) and the Neocons who push their agenda all over the globe.

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
41. Facts kills these neocons.
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 11:40 AM
Mar 2014

Just trash these fuckers when they trout out mccain and the rest of the neocon lemmings.

McCain will NEVER live down his conjugal visit with Jihadist in Syria. His legacy is complete.



Loser can't even hold a town hall without being heckled by his own constituents for his Jihadi love.

We could all smell the coffee when we saw McCain in Ukraine . He's a red alert for death, destruction and right wing extremism.

If there is pain and suffering anywhere in the world, McCain is not far behind collecting tears of unfathomable sorrow to feed his empty soul.

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
60. duh
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 06:12 PM
Mar 2014

It's his legacy.

Here is the picture with the terrorists, The allegation they were a kidnapping gang



The woman who is veiled so she doesn't spook these fanatics is that fraud who was exposed.

Kerry and McCain’s favorite Syria ‘expert’ fired for faking credentials

PS this ones shooped too.




 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
4. Calling those who support the Junta, one two three...
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 06:53 AM
Mar 2014

You're out there, guys. You know I can't call you out by name, and you were all so proud of yourselves for supporting the "liberation" of Egypt from its democratically elected government. Why not come out and take a bow, folks?

JoeyT

(6,785 posts)
9. It barely counts, though.
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 08:11 AM
Mar 2014

It was over so fast they didn't even have time to start thinking up nicknames for people that were opposed to it. Everyone knows a coup isn't real unless you get to call people Muslim Brotherhoodistas for a few weeks.

 

ieoeja

(9,748 posts)
44. While 500 dead Muslim Brotherhood is an excellent start, I hardly have the right to take bows.
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 12:26 PM
Mar 2014

All we did was cheer from the sidelines.


 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
46. Oh, i'm sorry ieoeja!
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 02:05 PM
Mar 2014

But since you have gone back and deleted every single comment you've made on the subject, I'm afraid I have to disqualify you from the awards show! However, you're not going home empty-handed.

Since, judging from replies to your vanished posts, you are an advocate of mass murder who - rather laughably - believes israel is under occupation by Arab armies, we have just the consolation prize for you.

A lifetime subscription to the Daniel Pipes Book of the month Club!



Perhaps next time, you'll have the intellectual courage to stand by your own opinion. Until then, happy reading!

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
55. Oh my, that is embarrassing
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 03:30 PM
Mar 2014

Going back and deleting everything he's said on the subject... wow.

DU is a marvel sometimes. He probably thought people on here were so stupid they wouldn't notice dozens of deleted posts.

malaise

(269,022 posts)
12. Precisely
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 08:31 AM
Mar 2014

and at the same time when we're calling out the democratically elected Venezuelan government when Western financed anti-government protesters are being attacked by government forced - and of course don't forget Ukraine...you can kill the police as long as you're on the 'right' side.

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
8. It appears the knee jerk reaction of Americans, including far too many DU folk,
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 07:50 AM
Mar 2014

is to blindly support any manner of "protestors" without giving it much thought at all.


Witness the support of the protests in Ukraine, Thailand, Venezuela, Egypt all against the democratically elected governments in each.

Democratic "underground" indeed.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
14. Hitler was democratically elected too, but I suppose we can invoke Godwin, since Hitler just wanted
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 08:42 AM
Mar 2014

to seize the government, rule the world and kill Jews.

Oh, wait. That pretty much describes the Muslim Brotherhood as well.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
19. Bush left office at his constitutionally appointed time
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 08:57 AM
Mar 2014

Meanwhile, the MB rewrote the Egyptian constitution at its whimsy to keep itself in power. It then set out on a foreign policy of seeking out other Islamist factions to spread its malignant brand as well as rekindle war with Israel.

In other words, there is no functional difference between them and the Nazis, including the fact both were democratically elected.

Being democratically elected doesn't mean squat if the faction elected uses the election to subsequently destroy democracy for everyone else through power grabbing and aggressive war -- which the MB certainly worked towards. Democratic elections only matter if the government uses its mandate to promote democratic reforms.

The MB was nothing more than terror supporting thugs who couldn't even run the country competently once they were in power so even the people turned against them.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
38. Which is so mystifying and disheartening.
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 10:02 AM
Mar 2014

That people who rightfully oppose the BFEE and fascism in America would so wildly applaud it elsewhere in the world as if it were any less of a threat to humanity and its dignity.

 

go west young man

(4,856 posts)
43. I think you misconstrue peoples intentions....
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 11:49 AM
Mar 2014

some of us understand that sometimes it's better to stick with what you currently have in certain countries than to quickly jump on the next best thing that suits the neocons agenda. Look at Iraq...the hardcore left warned you...look at Libya....we also warned you....the hard left has pointed the finger at Saudi Arabia saying there goes your rights abusers, there goes your 9/11 attackers, there goes your instigators for unrest in other countries....yet not a peep from our "Deep State" on that one.

There is far too much simplistic cheerleading when it comes to these issues and some of us may feel that it's actually counter productive for human rights when your country backs one despot over another and then topples the one that doesn't suit their needs and replaces them with one that is far more nefarious.

Putin, for example, is not a perfect leader...but for Russia he has cut crime in half and grown their economy...lifting many people out of poverty and maybe unbeknowingly laying the groundwork for future freedom. Many on this side of the pond seem to miss the point that some countries aren't on the same wavelength as posters here at DU when it comes to equal rights. I wish it was so but it takes critical thinking to understand Russia can actually spiral backwards and human rights can suffer more greatly under a different leader.

As it goes with Ukraine at this point...the party that toppled the government has released this video.


It speaks very loudly about what you can end up with. All the cheerleading and Putipants pics will be quite useless if Russia had a similar platform to the one in the video. My gut tells me that many of these noncritical thinkers would be wishing for Putin to be back in charge...especially as we would never want partys like this to have access to nuclear weapons.

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
23. Breathlessly wrong.
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 09:13 AM
Mar 2014

Federal elections were held in Germany on 5 March 1933. The Nazis registered a large increase in votes, again emerging as the largest party by far. Nevertheless they failed to obtain an absolute majority (despite the massive suppression against Communist and Social Democratic politicians) in their own right, needing the votes of their coalition partner, the DNVP German National People's Party, or "Black-White-Red-Struggle-Front," for a working majority. Due to the success in the poll, party leader Adolf Hitler – Chancellor since 30 January – was able to pass the Enabling Act on 23 March, which effectively made Hitler dictator of Germany. As a result, while three more elections (with only a Nazi party list) were held in the Nazi era, this was the last multi-party election held in Germany before the end of World War II and the formation of the German Bundestag in 1949, and the last for the whole country before reunification in 1990.

Incumbent President Paul von Hindenburg was 84 years old and in poor health. Never enthusiastic about the presidency (or public office in general), Hindenburg had planned to stand down after his first term. However, the prospect of Adolf Hitler being elected President of Germany persuaded the reluctant incumbent to seek a second term.

Despite becoming a German citizen (and thus eligible for public office) only on 25 February 1932, Hitler hoped to use the presidency to overturn the Weimar constitution and establish a dictatorship. In the 1925 election Hindenburg had been the candidate of the political right and had been strenuously opposed by much of the moderate left and political center. However, in 1932, this part of the political spectrum decided to unite with the moderate right in supporting Hindenburg to prevent Hitler's election. The support of the moderate Weimar coalition was also encouraged by the fact that, contrary to fears expressed at the time of his election in 1925, Hindenburg had not used his office to subvert the constitution, as Hitler now aimed to do.
Although Hitler lost the presidential election of 1932, he succeeded Hindenburg as head of state only two years later, when Hindenburg died in 1934. After the president's death Hitler abolished the office entirely, and replaced it with the new position of Führer und Reichskanzler ("Leader and Reich Chancellor&quot , cementing his dictatorship.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
28. In other words
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 09:25 AM
Mar 2014

Hitler attained power by constitutional means then immediately used that power to countermand the very processes that gave him that power.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
47. Oh, that's great...
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 02:09 PM
Mar 2014

"You know who else was elected? ...HITLER!"

...except Hitler was never elected

Rule the world, huh?


Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
89. Hitler actually lost the presidential election of 1932
Tue Mar 25, 2014, 09:48 AM
Mar 2014

He was *appointed* Chancellor of Germany by the guy who won the election, Paul von Hindenburg. So no, Hitler was not democratically elected.

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
20. The Muslim brotherhood is fundamentalist movement
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 09:00 AM
Mar 2014

They don't support a secular plural society, they want to enslave women and are religious fanatics.

They are akin to the worst Iranian mullahs or the jihadist we kill in Iraq and Afghanistan. Egyptian civil society will be better after they excise this anti democratic cancer.

We need to focus on supporting secular progressive governments in the middle east, not fanatics bent on taking us back to the middle ages. Proponents of female circumcision.

They should be grateful they were given the benefits of a trial by a civil society. Something their own movement would deny others.

Maybe DU missed the hundreds killed by these religious fanatics, you reap what you sow.

Fuck Morsi and his supporters...everywhere.

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
26. Morsi was a moderate who renounced his MB membership and did not attempt
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 09:16 AM
Mar 2014

Kangaroo Court death sentences.

There is that, and not liking a democratically elected government is not an excuse for hating it.

malaise

(269,022 posts)
25. Fuck Morsi and his supporters...everywhere.
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 09:14 AM
Mar 2014

How many hundreds were killed by Mubarak?

Do you support killing over 500 people - does that settle your version of the score?

At what point does the killing stop?

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
32. If your asking me to defend and be upset over a bunch of femalegenital mutilating religious fanatics
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 09:27 AM
Mar 2014

You've replied to the wrong post. I support rolling back sharia, killing violent jihadist and supporting PLURAL GOVERNMENTS that support SECULAR societies.

I'd take it further and go after their paymasters in Saudi, Bahrain and Qatar. Drones are wasted while radicals like bandar bush run amuck.

There are people in Egypt who long for a secular life free from religious fanatics or the military dictatorship. Those are my people and I stand in solidarity with them.

Fuck Morsi, the Muslim brotherhood and their supporters EVERYWHERE.

malaise

(269,022 posts)
34. Bwaaaaaaaaaah - your breath-taking arrogance is amazing
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 09:30 AM
Mar 2014

I assume the notion of sovereign states only apply to a select few global bullies.

You frighten me - this poor planet.

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
51. It's a conundrum. How can you have a democratic system
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 02:21 PM
Mar 2014

based on overturning an elected president and disenfranchising at least a quarter of the population?

Would you agree with disenfranchising the Tea Party base of the GOP? They are a religion based party.

FWIW I'm all for encouraging the formation of secular liberal democracies but we haven't done that since the end of WWII with Germany and Japan. It's difficult to do that when one major party - the GOP - is against liberal democracy and is pushing a theocratic system.


Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
61. I think it is a conundrum by in a different way...
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 06:17 PM
Mar 2014

What do you do with political groups that are elected democratically and whose actions are to dismantle that same democracy.

That happened in the 90's in algeria and led to years of counter insurgency by the military against the Jihadist.

The same was happing in Egypt.

Fundamentalist Jihadist are not compatible with democracy as their legal authority is not the secular state but the magic book as interpreted by a bunch of loony wizards.

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
64. They were not jihadist.
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 06:33 PM
Mar 2014

They were and are the largest political and social group in Egypt.

The military made the mistake of allowing elections before other political parties had time to form. So obviously the MB with their almost century of organizing were in a position to take advantage of the situation.

In fact, the way that Morsi was deposed wasn't the main problem, it was the extreme violence of the crackdown on the Pro-Morsi protesters. That crackdown was much worse than even the recent Mubarak crackdowns.

It's a mess anyway.

The Tea Party are a bunch of loony wizards but they still get a say in America. You have to think very carefully before you disenfranchise a whole section of the population.





G_j

(40,367 posts)
83. people who think mass executions are ok
Tue Mar 25, 2014, 08:37 AM
Mar 2014

are very scary! I don 't feel at all comfortable with that here.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
52. Which of the 529 people sentenced to death are "femalegenital mutilating religious fanatics"?
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 02:24 PM
Mar 2014

Which of the thousand killed by the junta in Cairo a few months ago?

How many of the journalists locked away under charges of treason and terrorism? Which by the way, carry death sentences as well.

Please don't try to argue that you're for a pluralist, secular democracy, while you're rallying for a military junta that seized power in a violent coup.

While you're at it, keep the phrase "human rights" out of your mouth, while you're cheering for mass slaughter of Egyptians. Since you're backing up a brutal putsch that is set on eliminating the rightful government through mass murder, and throws reporters in jail under death penalty charges for reporting it, you really don't get to talk about human rights. You're obviously not interested.

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
65. I'm all for building up civil institutions and transition to secular democratic institutions
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 06:39 PM
Mar 2014

That respect the rights of religious minorities and don't claim to get their authority from a holy book.

I'm not supporting sending Egypt back to the middle ages of religious fundamentalism.

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)
66. What happens when "secular" and "democratic" are opposed to one another?
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 06:49 PM
Mar 2014

What happens when, as in Egypt, the majority vote in a reasonably free and not immensely unfair election for a religious party?

Is a military coup, overthrowing democracy but retaining secular rule, justifiable?

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
67. If thats what it takes to protect secular institutions, religious minorities, women and gay rights.
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 06:54 PM
Mar 2014

I'll take the dictatorship over the alternative.

It's akin to the tea party winning the house, senate, and white house. Then stating a program to re-write the constitution that brought them to power, banning abortion and making Christianity the law of the land. Setting gangs out to harass and kill jews, and other religious minorities.

Thats what this is all about.

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
72. If they took over the house, senate and the white house
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 07:30 PM
Mar 2014

and started to re-write the constitution to make Christianity the official religion, ban abortion, gay marriage, repeal the civil rights act and the ACA because it says so in the old fucking testament.

I'm going to beg the military to restore the secular democracy and destroy those illegitimate thugs.

If legally elected generalisimo Cruz ends up in a cage in a show trial after it's all over I'll enjoy the show. You reap what you sow.

If they were elected and did not do any of the above - obviously not.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
74. What about if they simply voted for the politicians?
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 07:36 PM
Mar 2014

What if they might oppose the Tea party nuts - but still rally against the military overthrowing the government? What if htye're just journalists reporting on the crackdown?

because THOSE are the people Egypt is killing, in addition to elected party members and the appratus - many of whom, let us note, are no more "guilty" of anything than anyone else - and for those who are, they deserve actual trials, not two-day, no-evidence, death sentence shenannigans.

THOSE are the people whose destruction you are cheering

"Muslim Brotherhood supporters"

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)
75. In which case I suggest you stop using the word "democratic"
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 08:10 PM
Mar 2014

And just say that you support "secular" institutions, democratic or not, rather than using "democratic" to make your views sound more reasonable.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
68. Through murder of political opposition and imprisonment of journalists on death sentence charges?
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 07:07 PM
Mar 2014

Your "vision" of secular democracy is something vastly more unnerving and despicable than any of the cockamamie bullshit the Muslim Brotherhood had going on.

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
71. Not really
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 07:19 PM
Mar 2014

I think the point is if any religious group takes power, then re-writes the constitution (AKA the rules that brought them to power)

Doing that in a way that threatens women, religious minorities, and others who deserve the protection of the state they are no longer legitimate.

You need to play be the rules in a democratic society. The Muslim Brotherhood re-wrote the rules according to their holy book.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
73. Stop exploiting minorities to cover your bloodthirst, please
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 07:33 PM
Mar 2014

You are looking at a situation where half a thousand people have been sentenced to death for supporting a political party. By a military junta that seized power in a bloody coup. That then targeted unarmed peaceful demonstrators, slaughtering over a thousand of them. Where journalists who report on the situation are imprisoned, tortured, and tried, also with death sentences looming.

This is not being done to protect "women, religious minorities, and gays," and it's fucking shameful that you keep trying to hide behind those people in your defense of slaughtering people - unless you're going to tell me the putsch makes sure everyone it's killed is male, straight, and Muslim, of course?

You don't get to exploit these people to provide shelter for your advocacy of brutality against other people. Right now the junta in Egypt is murdering human beings and all you've got in defense of your support for that is the same mush-mouthed, false-consern platitudes I could get out of the EDL any fucking day of the week.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
42. Yeah, that was a joke of a kangaroo court sentence...
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 11:43 AM
Mar 2014

Having said that, the Muslim Brotherhood haven't exactly been Boy Scouts the past few years...

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
57. This isn't genocide
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 04:17 PM
Mar 2014

It's an attempt at mass murder for certain. But no, not genocide. Nor is it ethnic cleansing. I suppose that wholesale eradication of a political group could fall under the looser rubric of "democide" however... But at the current scale, it's just mass murder.

malaise

(269,022 posts)
86. The United Nations, US, EU and Amnesty International have condemned this
Tue Mar 25, 2014, 09:09 AM
Mar 2014

Another 700 will have similar sham trials today. Not one defendant even has a lawyer - unprecedented.

This is absolute bullshit - we need global condemnation for this madness.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/03/25/uk-egypt-brotherhood-idUKBREA2O0FA20140325
<snip>
The United Nations human rights office said on Tuesday the mass death sentences contravened international law, and voiced concern for others facing the same charges. [ID:nL5N0MM29B] The European Union and the United States also criticised the ruling.

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/europe/10481-egypt-more-than-500-sentenced-to-death-in-grotesque-ruling
Egypt: More than 500 sentenced to death in 'grotesque' ruling

Today's mass death sentences handed down by an Egyptian court are a grotesque example of the shortcomings and the selective nature of Egypt's justice system, Amnesty International said.

According to state media reports, in a single hearing this morning, the Minya Criminal Court sentenced 529 supporters of former President Mohamed Morsi to be executed for their alleged role in violence following his ousting in July last year.

"This is injustice writ large and these death sentences must be quashed. Imposing death sentences of this magnitude in a single case makes Egypt surpass most other countries' use of capital punishment in a year," said Hassiba Hadj Sahraoui, Deputy Middle East and North Africa Programme Director at Amnesty International.

"This is the largest single batch of simultaneous death sentences we've seen in recent years, not just in Egypt but anywhere in the world.

"Egypt's courts are quick to punish Mohamed Morsi's supporters but ignore gross human rights violations by the security forces. While thousands of Morsi's supporters languish in jail, there has not been an adequate investigation into the deaths of hundreds of protesters. Just one police officer is facing a prison sentence, for the deaths of 37 detainees.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
53. Once again, we see why we have no business meddling
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 02:37 PM
Mar 2014

in the affairs of nations in the Middle East. We don't understand the area and often misconstrue things that happen there. Whenever revolutionary changes of government occur, they end badly for at least one group. Egypt must figure its own future out for itself, I'm afraid. Whether DU or the State Department gets involved in supporting one side or another in such situations, it makes no difference. Nations have to determine their own path.

Sadly, that often leads to terrible things happening. Our opinions and efforts won't change that, I'm afraid.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
59. Egypt's wonderful, peaceful revolution was hijacked. So sad to watch, they lost 800 innocent lives
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 05:55 PM
Mar 2014

to transform the dictatorship into a democracy. But democracy in Egypt wasn't tolerable, for now, to those who have vested interests in keeping it under the control of the military.

I guess these are latest allies ...

I wonder what the world would look like if the Western Powers supported Democratic Governments rather than dictatorships.

It's hard to even read about Egypt now.

dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
76. Apparently over 700 more will be sentenced Tuesday.
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 08:23 PM
Mar 2014

taking the total to c.1250.

What should be front page news isn't

dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
85. Tuesday 25th - Egypt puts Muslim Brotherhood leader, 682 others on trial.
Tue Mar 25, 2014, 08:48 AM
Mar 2014

(Reuters) - The leader of Egypt's outlawed Muslim Brotherhood and 682 others went on trial on Tuesday on charges including murder, their lawyer said, a day after more than 500 supporters of deposed Islamist president Mohamed Mursi were sentenced to death.

Brotherhood Supreme Guide Mohamed Badie, 70, and the others were being tried in the same court in Minya Province that condemned 529 members of the Islamist group to death, in what rights groups said was the biggest mass death sentence handed out in Egypt's modern history.

The United Nations human rights office said on Tuesday the mass death sentences contravened international law, and voiced concern for others facing the same charges. [ID:nL5N0MM29B] The European Union and the United States also criticised the ruling.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/03/25/uk-egypt-brotherhood-idUKBREA2O0FA20140325

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
79. Thanks malaise for starting this thread. From Real News Network:
Tue Mar 25, 2014, 08:20 AM
Mar 2014

Over 500 Muslim Brotherhood Members Get Death Penalty Ahead of Egyptian Presidential Election

Journalist Mohamed El Meshad explains how public opinion is divided over ruling especially ahead of Egypt's April 1st presidential

March 25, 14

Bio

Mohamed Elmeshad is an independent journalist based in Cairo and former reporter for Al-Masry Al-Youm's Egypt Independent. He graduated in 2006 with a B.S. in Economics and a Minor in Journalism from the George Washington University. He worked in Benin as a Peace Corps Volunteer between 2006-2008 where he focused on Small Enterprise Development and other educational projects. This was followed by two years as a Corporate Analyst at a Private Equity firm in Bahrain.

Transcript: snip* DESVARIEUX: So, Mohamed, tell us about the court ruling and how you think it will affect the political climate in Egypt.

ELMESHAD: Well, the court ruling is--I mean, simply it's the largest sort of mass ruling of, you know, mass conviction for murder, which entails execution, in the modern history of Egypt. I mean, it happened over--apparently, it happened over just two court sessions, where the first one was very short. The second one is where they gave the ruling. Of course, for 528 or 545 total people on trial, I mean, it's impossible for them to have [incompr.] gone through complete due process.

What we know so far is that these people, they may or may not have been involved in some altercations with police at Matay Police Station in Minya, where one officer was killed. And because of that, they were all convicted of murder, and 528 of them were given death sentences.

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=11637

malaise

(269,022 posts)
80. This
Tue Mar 25, 2014, 08:28 AM
Mar 2014
ELMESHAD: Well, the court ruling is--I mean, simply it's the largest sort of mass ruling of, you know, mass conviction for murder, which entails execution, in the modern history of Egypt. I mean, it happened over--apparently, it happened over just two court sessions, where the first one was very short. The second one is where they gave the ruling. Of course, for 528 or 545 total people on trial, I mean, it's impossible for them to have gone through complete due process.


And there are people on DU defending this sham trial - my way or hte highway has tkan on new meaning.

Freedom and democracy my ass!!!

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
81. I know, I read some of the responses..a lot of ignorance on the situation has been posted, sad.
Tue Mar 25, 2014, 08:35 AM
Mar 2014

US response:

snip*The United States was “deeply concerned, and I would say actually pretty shocked,” about the mass death sentences, said Marie Harf, a State Department spokeswoman. “It defies logic” and “certainly does not seem possible that a fair review of evidence and testimony, consistent with international standards,” could have been conducted over a two-day period, she said.

Harf said that the United States was raising its concerns with the Egyptian government but that “it’s an important relationship [that we] don’t want to completely cut off.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/egypt-sentences-529-to-death/2014/03/24/a4f95692-6992-461e-aaf1-9bc84908a429_story.html

dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
87. U.N. says mass Egyptian death sentences contravene international law
Tue Mar 25, 2014, 09:30 AM
Mar 2014

(Reuters) - The United Nations human rights office said on Tuesday an Egyptian court's decision to sentence 529 members of the Muslim Brotherhood to death contravened international law, and voiced concern for thousands of others facing the same charges.

Rights campaigners and lawyers described Monday's ruling as the biggest mass death penalty handed out in Egypt's modern history.

The Muslim Brotherhood's leader and 682 others went on trial on Tuesday in the same court.

"The mass imposition of the death penalty after a trial rife with procedural irregularities is in breach of international human rights law," U.N. human rights spokesman Rupert Colville said at a news briefing in Geneva.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/03/25/uk-egypt-brotherhood-courts-un-idUKBREA2O0P320140325

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