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IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 11:30 AM Mar 2014

Justice was Served - I was excused from Jury Duty for Cause.

Ever had an "in your face, put your money where your mouth is" karma moment? I had one on Thursday.

I was summoned for Jury Duty at my local Circuit Court.

I am not a stranger to the building -- we were Plaintiffs in a civil case against our bank not that long ago -- but this was the first time I had been there as a potential juror.

Truthfully, I was summoned in December, but I was able to defer until March. Things have been crazy-busy at work, and I ended up canceling seven different meetings to go; because you are supposed to "call after five" I wasn't even sure I would need to report, in which case I planned to go to work (no work = no pay) and actually "get stuff done" with the meetings canceled. Other than losing a day's wages, I felt good about the situation - civic duty, you know. Proud to be an American, etc. Besides, what were the odds I would be selected? Maybe I would be released early, but too late to go to work; my fantasy of a guilt free, kids in school/husband at work couple of hours involved maybe getting a "mani-pedi" and possibly lunch with my mom.

I was "Juror #003" and our pool had about a hundred people or so. Orientation was good, and warned that if we were "called but not selected" we were to return to the jury room because we might be offered for another case. The women running the show were polite, courteous, and sincere - "just being here sometimes encourages settlement in cases, so rest assured you are really helping!" Within five minutes of orientation being complete, approximately 40 numbers were called and since my number wasn't one of them, I jokingly cheered "Go, Team Justice!" as they traipsed from the room before sitting down with a nice book - woo hoo! time to Read Without Interruption! -- because seriously, what were the odds the rest of us would be needed?

In hindsight, this attitude probably summoned the fates of "Oh, Really - is THAT what you think?"

Five minutes later, "all remaining jurors" were called to check-out. We were going to "Courtroom 2B" and the judge's clerk recommended we use the restroom beforehand, because we would spend the rest of the morning there. Fortunately, I listened to this advice, as did most of the women, which meant we waited for a bit in the hallway.

I was in a good mood. I don't "do bored" well, and this was looking like it would be interesting. The clerk noticed, and we did a small social chit-chat: "You seem happy." "I am - civic duty!" "It's good to have a happy juror." She was dressed in heels, with an awesome skirt/long blouse combo, and frankly, she looked amazing. I wondered if anyone would notice my "black-and-white" theme: black pants, white shirt, black jacket. It was supposed to be a "subtle" statement about my views on law-and-order stuff. We made the walk to the courtroom and I joked that it was like being in line at a well known amusement park.

These are the mundane details of the morning. I share them to explain my mood. It was good - I was going to "help" in the cause of justice, which I believe in, and since I only had to be there for one day unless I was seated, at which point it was going to be two-to-four days, honestly, it was inconvenient (lots of work waiting, and losing a day's wages) but still something I was proud to be participating in - I Believe In Justice.

My mood lasted until the Judge read the charges.

The case involved a 14-year old girl who had been sexually assaulted at knife point during a home invasion.

Boom. This was real. Instant mood change. Instant somber.

The details of the charge, which were NOT the evidence, were painful to hear. I found myself thinking, "I can't do this!" and wishing for a nice murder trial instead, which seemed ridiculous and absurd. I lectured myself on holding it together, and listening. Could I be excused because I knew any of the witnesses? Drat - no. But one of us raised her hand, and said she thought the name of one of the Witnesses (for the Defense, I think) was someone she went to high school with; the judge asked if they were close, and she replied no, so she ended up staying. Fourteen of us were called to sit, and I breathed a prayer of relief because my number wasn't one of them.

The Judge asked them questions, and instructed the rest of us to pay attention to save time later. Had we ever served on a jury before? What type of case? What was the outcome? The attorneys later added "were you the foreman?" but the most important question was, "will that experience impact your ability to be fair and impartial here?" The second round had to do with "being a member of or related to law enforcement or judiciary" with the same "will this affect your ability to be fair and impartial?" The judge's final question was "is there anything else that might impact your ability to be fair and impartial" and wish washy was unacceptable. Could you put things aside, presume innocence, and evaluate evidence? Being charged, she repeated, was NOT evidence.

No one wanted to be there. Everyone answered with scrupulous honesty. We could see the defendant, and this was NOT a television show. It was real. Oh, God. It. Was. Real.

The juror in Chair #11 was the first to crack. When the judge asked the "any reason" question, she raised her hand, and in a shaking voice explained that her niece had been the a victim of molestation, and she wasn't sure she could be impartial. The judge pushed the issue - "you realize this isn't the same situation, don't you?" - but didn't release her. Later I understood that it was because, unless it was blatant, the judge waited for the attorneys to challenge jurors, and was probably keeping some kind of mental score about it. "Cause" was unlimited, but "peremptories" were not.

Then the lawyers started questioning - the Prosecutor always started with, "Tell us a little bit about yourself." The follow ups were about your marital status, whether you had children, what you did for a living. Then he asked tough questions: would you be able to listen to the testimony of a fourteen year old, who probably wouldn't be polished and perfect, who would be uncomfortable speaking in public, especially about a terrible situation such as this, and believe her? Could we wrap our heads around the fact there wasn't likely to be any witnesses, or video tapes, or anything to corroborate her story, except her testimony?

The Defense attorney apologized for moving slow - he had put himself in the middle of a dog fight the night before, and I instantly kind of liked him for that. He focused on "being accused does not make one guilty," and asked if we could put our natural sympathy for the victim aside to evaluate the evidence. He also brought up the subject of pornography - we were going to be shown graphic sexual images; did everyone understand that viewing pornography did not mean someone was automatically a criminal? Truthfully, he was a little funny with the question, and being rational adults, there were chuckles, which broke some of the tension.

The Defense attorney also told us he wasn't going to argue over whether the victim had been assaulted; the defense was that it wasn't his client who did it. This seemed a reasonable position, and I think some of us breathed easier because of it - at least I did.

The challenges started: the woman with the molested niece was excused. Anybody with a relative in law enforcement was excused. Anybody who worked with law enforcement was excused. A social worker, a surgeon a pregnant woman, and a woman who had just taken the bar exam were excused. As soon as a chair was emptied, the clerk called a number, and the process started over again.

The man who had shared the table with me during orientation flat out stated he could not be impartial because both his wife and daughter had been raped on separate occasions. Another woman started crying because she herself was a rape victim, and the perpetrator had never been caught. One man told how he had awoken to discover his thirteen year old sister being molested, and knew he couldn't do it. A new citizen whose English wasn't great was excused because he was having trouble following the proceedings. Two college students were released - one had exams over the next two days, while the other had non-refundable plane tickets to the Bahamas for Spring Break, which started on Monday for her. Living in Michigan, we all chuckled - it has been a long cold winter, and the thought of warm weather and sunny beaches made us smile.

As the jury pool got smaller, the judge became harder, especially for cause. The man who worked with a Catholic priest who was "relocated" in 2002 was an issue for her. The Jehovah's Witness who told her he didn't believe he could be fair about the issue of pornography due to his religious beliefs was a fight, and the man who told her he didn't feel as a Christian he could judge another man at this level without violating his religious beliefs had to be "peremptoried" because she wasn't budging: he had said "I don't think so" which wasn't a definite no.

One man was excused because his father had been a murder victim during a home invasion, and he flat out told the judge he couldn't be fair or impartial in the matter. The new citizen from Nigeria, where such things aren't talked about even though they happen, was excused on a peremptory.

There were two "funny" ones - the first was the woman who thought she might know one of the witnesses. She ended up battling the judge over the situation, and was excused when it came out that the reason they weren't friends was because they hated each other's guts due to the fact they both had the same "baby daddy" which had happened while they were both in high school. The other woman was a psychologist, specializing in sexual assault victims (1/3 of her practice) who had appeared in previous cases as an expert witness for the Prosecutor's office; bonus boot - her sister is a US District Attorney.

Our numbers got smaller and smaller; there were only three of us left in the pool when my number came up. I took over seat #5.

I remembered the questions. I had previously served on a jury for a drunk driver. I wasn't the foreman, and we found her guilty. I did not believe this would impact my ability to be fair and impartial.

My father, now deceased, had worked in law enforcement for thirty years focused mainly on property theft. I did not believe this would impact my ability to be fair and impartial.

My third "yes" to the judge was on the question of pornography. No one else had parsed it, but I had had a lot of time to think about it. If they showed me "regular pornography", I would not have a problem, but if they showed me child or rape pornography, especially in this type of case, I was going to find him guilty of anything they put in front of me so he could go to jail as a menace to society.

I said this in a very calm tone, and there was a moment I can only describe as slightly stunned silence. "You do realize those are not the charges?" asked the judge. "Yes," I replied. "But I don't know what kind of pornography you are going to show us, and if it is child or rape pornography, I will be voting guilty."

"Okay then," she replied, and turned me over to the attorneys for questioning.

"Please tell us about yourself," the Prosecutor said in a very nice way. He still managed to sound sincere despite the fact I was probably the 58th person he had said that too.

I had debated whether or not to lie. I decided against it. The man was entitled to know who the people on his jury were, and I would respect the process.

"I am married. I have two young children. I work in IT at one of the automotive companies, and I spent multiple years in therapy dealing with effects of being a survivor of child sexual assault. The person was never prosecuted."

I had to repeat it. Maybe my voice had shaken too much when I said it? Maybe the together looking middle aged woman speaking calmly about being an IT professional was hard to picture as a victim of such a thing. He apologized...

"I'm sorry, but who was the victim? Was it you?"

"Yes," I answered. (Oh, God, this is on the record, and I am saying it out loud in front of a room full of strangers.) "I have also been counting them up while I have been waiting, and I am personally acquainted with between twenty and twenty-five women who are also survivors of child sexual assault, but only two of the have had the perpetrators prosecuted, so I am curious as to what will constitute sufficient evidence. Nevertheless, I believe I am well versed in identifying the affect of victims. I have been thinking about whether or not I can be fair about this, as the Defense Attorney has asked, and I believe I can be fair and impartial since he will not be arguing whether or not she was assaulted. However, I need to specify that when it comes to evaluating the evidence, if she points and says HE DID IT, that will be good enough for me and I will be voting guilty."

If you read the title of this post, you know how the story almost ends. Not surprisingly, the Prosecutor didn't mind my staying, but the Defense had me released for cause. I was thanked for my service, and left the courtroom. Before I did, I looked briefly at my fellow jurors - people who could be trusted to fairly judge a situation that truthfully I could not, and whispered, "sorry" and "good luck" to them.

It was over...but not quite.

On the left hand side of the courtroom through this process had been sitting several people who appeared to be family members. We had no idea if they were there for the victim or the defendant. About an hour before my turn in seat #5 an older gentleman who appeared to be in his late sixties had left the courtroom for what I presume was a bathroom break; when he returned, he was instructed that he had to wait outside. He was standing by the window by the door when I came out, and he asked me if I was "the last" juror. "I was the last one excused," I told him. (I think he could hear what was going on, but I don't know for sure.) "There were two alternates left."

"That man," he said. "He's my son, and he just turned 41 years old the other day. 41 years old, and he's facing life in prison because this is his third strike."

"I'm sorry," I said to him, because what else could I say?

"His third strike," the man repeated. "He's my oldest boy. I have nine children, and he just turned 41 the other day. He went to prison for six years, and then for eight years, and I told him to stay away from trouble, but..."

He was obviously grief stricken. "Has he been making...bad life choices?" I asked gently.

He looked relieved at the euphemism. "Yes," he said.

"I'm sorry," I repeated, and gave him a hug. He hugged back.

I went back to the jury room. They released me. It was 1:00 p.m. and I will receive a check for $25 for my services. I did not return to work. I went to lunch by myself and then I got a haircut.

There is a section on the jury questionnaire that asks if you have ever been involved in a criminal or civil court case. I had diligently checked "plaintiff" in the civil section. I think, if it had been a murder trial, or a drug trial, or even a simple assault case, I would have been a good juror - fair, impartial, open minded. I wonder if I should have lied, or been "less forthcoming" about my past. Was my stance on pornography enough to get me removed? Did I "taint" the pool by specifying that child or rape porn was "different" than "regular" porn? Would I have trusted the "other woman" if she provided a clichéd defense that the defendant was with her when the victim said he was assaulting her? Would they have told us he was up on his "third strike"?

I don't know. I simply have to trust the fourteen people who could judge fairly when I could not, and hope the nightmare thought of a 14-year old girl waking up to a stranger in her room with a knife at her throat goes away soon.

Go, Team Justice.

70 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Justice was Served - I was excused from Jury Duty for Cause. (Original Post) IdaBriggs Mar 2014 OP
Wow. Ida, this is an amazing post. I am sorry for your experience, but I am Squinch Mar 2014 #1
This message was self-deleted by its author yeoman6987 Mar 2014 #28
You're responding to the wrong person. Repost this to Ida. I agree with you 100%. Squinch Mar 2014 #29
Thank you. How do I do that? yeoman6987 Mar 2014 #34
No, not at all. I think the easiest way would be to copy and paste what you wrote to me as a Squinch Mar 2014 #35
Thank you so much! yeoman6987 Mar 2014 #39
At the bottom right corner of any post, you will see a link: Reply to this post. politicat Mar 2014 #40
I believe telling the truth is the only ethical choice. MineralMan Mar 2014 #2
Great post, thanks for sharing. Agschmid Mar 2014 #3
Very powerful and thought-provoking post. Tanuki Mar 2014 #4
I show up whenever I am called, LWolf Mar 2014 #5
Eloquent posting... I've never experienced (thankfully) what you have.. hlthe2b Mar 2014 #6
I believe you did the right thing. Thank you for sharing your story. Scuba Mar 2014 #7
It's rare that I read a post this lengthy word-for-word. Worst Username Ever Mar 2014 #8
Thank you for posting this. SheilaT Mar 2014 #9
Yes! many of the problems we see in cases stems from the fact that too many avoid serving 7962 Mar 2014 #20
Kicked, rec'd, and bookmarked. NuclearDem Mar 2014 #10
Yes, it is. mimi85 Mar 2014 #42
That's intense. Thank you for your post. Rozlee Mar 2014 #11
Beautifully written, Ida Small Accumulates Mar 2014 #12
wow just wow ... a few things to say littlewolf Mar 2014 #13
Very well written. Veilex Mar 2014 #14
thank you for this very eloquent post fizzgig Mar 2014 #15
Thank you for writing about this day. Ilsa Mar 2014 #16
Well written, thanks for posting....I read every word....good story! Let us know the outcome when Gin Mar 2014 #17
I got jury duty coming up next month Rosa Luxemburg Mar 2014 #18
Is this something you should be sharing online? Vashta Nerada Mar 2014 #19
Why not? We dont even know where this was. 7962 Mar 2014 #21
She admitted it was in Michigan. Vashta Nerada Mar 2014 #23
So what? It was a truthful post and she wasn't bound by any promise of confidentiality. n/t pnwmom Mar 2014 #36
Yes it is. Half-Century Man Mar 2014 #27
Having just completed jury service myself, yes, she can share it online. ScreamingMeemie Mar 2014 #31
She didn't even serve and most trials areopen to the public, including jury selection. morningfog Mar 2014 #48
An amazing post malaise Mar 2014 #22
Interesting story Egnever Mar 2014 #24
K&R hardly seems adequate for your eloquence Little_Wing Mar 2014 #25
Thank you for this. So MANY potential jurors had been touched by rape and abuse... Hekate Mar 2014 #26
That was what struck me too. KitSileya Mar 2014 #33
Hello and thank you for your participation in our legal system JJChambers Mar 2014 #30
This is an impressive account. Thank you for posting it here, IdaBriggs. calimary Mar 2014 #32
Holy Crap yeoman6987 Mar 2014 #37
Great Post! n/t Paka Mar 2014 #38
Excellent post IdaBriggs! asjr Mar 2014 #41
The system worked Gman Mar 2014 #43
We'll probably never know if it worked or not, which is scary. Donald Ian Rankin Mar 2014 #62
Wow, quite a story you have. Or recital. Story makes it sound false and I know it isn't. tavalon Mar 2014 #44
Thank you for the post locks Mar 2014 #45
I'm with you on this. rgbecker Mar 2014 #65
Wow, great memory. nt Logical Mar 2014 #46
Is this the story of this creep? Logical Mar 2014 #47
Yes. I looked him up today (after I made this post) when someone asked for follow up. IdaBriggs Mar 2014 #49
Great post! nt Logical Mar 2014 #50
You did the right thing in telling the truth. Curmudgeoness Mar 2014 #51
I send peace and love to you. peace13 Mar 2014 #52
That is good to be honest about one's limitations of bias. Everyone has them Douglas Carpenter Mar 2014 #53
By telling your story "on the record," you performed a public service. JDPriestly Mar 2014 #54
Thank you for sharing. TxDemChem Mar 2014 #55
K&R.... JohnnyRingo Mar 2014 #56
Go, Team Justice Wash. state Desk Jet Mar 2014 #57
I've been summoned for jury duty May 12-16. catbyte Mar 2014 #58
Thank you. n/t Judi Lynn Mar 2014 #59
As a lawyer is is always frustrating when it is time to pick a jury. Dustlawyer Mar 2014 #60
Personally, I'd want all liars off my jury, so good riddance. rgbecker Mar 2014 #64
I agree, I don't want anyone with an agenda. I see to many RW jurors who try not Dustlawyer Mar 2014 #67
I really dread jury duty PasadenaTrudy Mar 2014 #68
What's the difference between a "cause" and a "peremptory"? N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Mar 2014 #61
Cause is done by a judge, peremptory is done by an attorney. former9thward Mar 2014 #69
Beautifully written account. cate94 Mar 2014 #63
Good read! Vinnie From Indy Mar 2014 #66
UPDATE: Thank You for the Kind Words!!! IdaBriggs Mar 2014 #70

Squinch

(50,955 posts)
1. Wow. Ida, this is an amazing post. I am sorry for your experience, but I am
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 11:36 AM
Mar 2014

so happy for your insight.

Response to Squinch (Reply #1)

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
34. Thank you. How do I do that?
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 05:38 PM
Mar 2014

I have never been able to figure out how to reply to another person. Stupid newbies….I know.

Squinch

(50,955 posts)
35. No, not at all. I think the easiest way would be to copy and paste what you wrote to me as a
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 05:42 PM
Mar 2014

response to the OP, so that way it gets to Ida. Then you can just self delete what you wrote to me.

I am guessing she might have seen your comment already, but this would get it to show as a response on her "my posts" page.

politicat

(9,808 posts)
40. At the bottom right corner of any post, you will see a link: Reply to this post.
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 05:50 PM
Mar 2014

That's the one you click to reply. On the main post, it will be just above the comments in the grey box.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Look down.

Tanuki

(14,919 posts)
4. Very powerful and thought-provoking post.
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 11:51 AM
Mar 2014

Would you mind updating us at the end of the trial to let us know the verdict? I'm assuming it will be covered in your local media. Even his dad knows he is guilty, so I hope he is sent away where he can't damage anyone else. I am so sorry for his 14-year-old victim, and all of his other victims. I am also sorry for your own experiences that you have been so brave to share. You have healed admirably.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
5. I show up whenever I am called,
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 12:20 PM
Mar 2014

although I always delay the service until summer so that my students and I don't suffer the disruption. I'm never on a jury. I never even get to the point that they call me out of the waiting room as a potential.

I'm willing to serve. I'd probably never be picked, though. If a lawyer said, "Tell us a little about yourself," my response would be something along the lines of "I am a very firm supporter of the right to privacy."

I don't think I'd answer personal questions. Examining my personal life in a courtroom when I haven't been accused of a crime feels like a violation of my privacy.

hlthe2b

(102,297 posts)
6. Eloquent posting... I've never experienced (thankfully) what you have..
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 12:21 PM
Mar 2014

But, I admire you for speaking honestly and doing your 'damndest' to be fair. I am touched by your compassion towards the father of the accused.

I actually think you may well have been MORE fair than many on the jury--just for who you apparently ARE.

But, I'm glad for you, that you don't have to endure this trial. What we do to rape victims is atrocious--how much of society views rape in general, is equally so. THings HAVE to change.

Worst Username Ever

(6,618 posts)
8. It's rare that I read a post this lengthy word-for-word.
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 12:28 PM
Mar 2014

But this one was enthralling. Thank you for taking the time to write it and for sharing your experiences.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
9. Thank you for posting this.
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 12:45 PM
Mar 2014

Jury duty is incredibly important, and far too many people don't get that and are totally unwilling to serve. You were completely honest, the right thing to do.

I personally know a couple, both college educated, she a retired college professor who have never registered to vote for fear they'd have to serve on a jury.

Me, I've always been willing and somewhat eager to be on a jury, and it's never happened. Once, and only once have I been summoned for duty, and was eventually excused because I had non-refundable plane tickets for a family (husband and kids) vacation due to start in two days.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
20. Yes! many of the problems we see in cases stems from the fact that too many avoid serving
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 02:32 PM
Mar 2014

They should use drivers license records too. That would make a bigger pool.

mimi85

(1,805 posts)
42. Yes, it is.
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 07:35 PM
Mar 2014

I'm such a sap, I got tears thinking of how many people's lives were affected by this - including the OP's.

Rozlee

(2,529 posts)
11. That's intense. Thank you for your post.
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 12:52 PM
Mar 2014

I was only summoned once that it got far enough to make it to interviewing. The other two times, I was either deployed or, more recently, caring for my husband with Alzheimer's. They were trying this guy for arson of some derelict buildings. I got up to go to the bathroom a few times since I'd been drinking a Big Gulp before I went in and one of the questioners asked me snappishly if I had problems with my bladder. Not really, I told him self-consciously. Just getting up there, I guess. He looked at me suspiciously and I found myself inexplicably excused.

Small Accumulates

(149 posts)
12. Beautifully written, Ida
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 12:57 PM
Mar 2014

So much sorrow in this business of being human. Thank you for sharing this profound experience with us.

littlewolf

(3,813 posts)
13. wow just wow ... a few things to say
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 01:01 PM
Mar 2014

1. I am so very sorry for your experiences. I am sorry they
were never charged or tried.

2. this is an amazing post, you are a very strong person, and yes honesty is the best way.

3. I hope this poor 14 year old girl is able to get the help needed to get through this.

4. I hope whoever did this is punished.

5. I have never had to sit in a jury, I have been called several times
but always excused. I was working for DOC (dept. of corrections)
and once I knew the defendant. every time I was excused.
since I have left DOC and now work as a security contractor I wonder how that will work.

thank you for posting this and for your stand in court, you are very brave.

 

Veilex

(1,555 posts)
14. Very well written.
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 01:19 PM
Mar 2014

Have you considered being a professional writer?
You have a solid grasp for details.
I could easily see myself reading a novel written in this style.

fizzgig

(24,146 posts)
15. thank you for this very eloquent post
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 01:41 PM
Mar 2014

that must have been a very difficult experience for you, sounds like your handled it with grace and courage.

i made it to voir dire the one time i was called, also a sexual assault on a child case.

i was 19 and it was the first week of my sophomore year. the other college kids asked for peremptory excusals and i'm pretty sure the judge denied those requests. my line of thinking was that it is my civic duty to put effort into it and, given the size of the jury pool, i figured the odds of being seated were low enough.

i was caught off guard when they called me to the box, but i was not going to lie just to be excused. i told them it would be an inconvenience to miss school, but that would not affect my impartiality. they asked me if i thought the police were always right and i had to stifle a giggle. what ultimately got me excused was my mom. she was working toward her bachelor's in social work at the time and did a lot of work with abused children.

could i have judged the defendant fairly? i don't know that i can say one way or another now any better than i could back then.

Ilsa

(61,695 posts)
16. Thank you for writing about this day.
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 01:49 PM
Mar 2014

I've often wondered if I could be impartial if called for such a case.

Gin

(7,212 posts)
17. Well written, thanks for posting....I read every word....good story! Let us know the outcome when
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 01:51 PM
Mar 2014

It Hits the papers....

Gin

ScreamingMeemie

(68,918 posts)
31. Having just completed jury service myself, yes, she can share it online.
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 04:23 PM
Mar 2014

No names are mentioned, and she was released from the jury.

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
24. Interesting story
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 02:44 PM
Mar 2014

I have only been called once and at the time needed to be excused for medical reasons. I have always wanted to be called again.

Little_Wing

(417 posts)
25. K&R hardly seems adequate for your eloquence
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 02:45 PM
Mar 2014

Despite having been eligible for jury duty since 1970, when I first registered to vote, I've never even made it past the "calling in see if you are required to attend" stage, and have only gotten a notice four times. Four times. What odds are those?

I've always wished to have the juror's experience. Yet I know that if called I'd be morally required to be as scrupulously honest in assessing my capacity to be completely impartial as you were. Wouldn't the "system" be ill-served by anything else? I'm endlessly fascinated by those who do get the chance to serve. Were they truly honest or capable of opaque self-deception? Who has been convicted honestly and conversely who has been freed wrongly? Does it balance out somehow?

Your compassion for the father brought tears to my eyes. So many questions, so many unknowns, so much humanity stumbling through the complications of our brief time here.

Thanks so much, Ida. Team Justice, indeed.

Hekate

(90,714 posts)
26. Thank you for this. So MANY potential jurors had been touched by rape and abuse...
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 02:46 PM
Mar 2014

.... and so MANY of your friends and acquaintances. I think I'm the first person in this discussion to make note of that.

It's a pervasive and sick thread running through our society, isn't it?

KitSileya

(4,035 posts)
33. That was what struck me too.
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 05:30 PM
Mar 2014

As I read, I had the exact same thought as you. So many being excused because they themselves, or someone(s) near to them had been raped or molested. And so many of those predators that hadn't been found/convicted. And they say that rape culture doesn't exist.

 

JJChambers

(1,115 posts)
30. Hello and thank you for your participation in our legal system
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 04:12 PM
Mar 2014

I must regret to inform you that I stopped reading here:

The case involved a 14-year old girl who had been sexually assaulted at knife point during a home invasion.

Boom. This was real. Instant mood change. Instant somber.


Why? Well, I just recently learned on DU that there is no such thing as a home invasion. They're just made up stories by pro-gun rights activists used to scare the American public.

/sarcasm off

Well done. Much love for you.

calimary

(81,323 posts)
32. This is an impressive account. Thank you for posting it here, IdaBriggs.
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 04:49 PM
Mar 2014

Impressive and instructive to read. Striking as well. Thank you for being so open and candid about it all. I go to jury duty whenever I'm called because it just seems like the civic-minded thing to do. I never beg off, but I was eliminated from the jury once in a felony drunk driving case because as a reporter (at the time), I'd covered quite a few of these and had seen how awful the ramifications had been, and I sincerely wasn't sure I could be impartial.

One other thing that I found VERY illuminating - the defense attorney during this preliminary procedure asked all of us potential jurors which magazines we read or subscribe to. He disqualified me after I'd reported that I read "Vogue," "Harpers Bazaar," "Time," "Newsweek," "MS" and the "Utne Reader." I think the mention of "MS" magazine suggested to him things about me that would lead him to believe I'd favor the prosecution. I just thought that was incredibly interesting and instructive - gauging what kind of juror you'd be by the kinds of magazines you read.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
37. Holy Crap
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 05:46 PM
Mar 2014

You had me devouring the story. You are incredible in description and flow. You DEFINITELY should consider writing for a living. I felt like I was reading a good book. I am not kidding. Extremely well done.




Ida, wow. It took me forever to figure out how to get to you even though a thoughtful DUer helped me at least get to the basics….I am exhausted now. However, I am sincere in my above post to you.

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)
62. We'll probably never know if it worked or not, which is scary.
Sun Mar 23, 2014, 08:41 AM
Mar 2014

Even if all the best possible practices are followed, if an innocent man is convicted or a guilty man is acquitted, the system has still failed. And both of those almost certainly happen fairly regularly.

Conversely, if I walk down a line of people accused of crimes, sentencing or releasing them by dice roll, and miraculously get the right answers, and miraculously get all the right answers, the system has worked (although I hasten to add I'm not advocating this...)


All that we can say is that it sounds as though procedures which will fail less often than anything else were followed. But we'll probably never know for sure if the guy on trial was really guilty, and hence we won't know if justice was done or not.

Which worries me. I'd like to live in a society where I could be confident that 1) if someone commits a crime against me, they'll be punished, and 2) if I don't commit crimes, I won't be punished. But, without a surveillance camera in every room of every house, we just have to take our chances and hope.

tavalon

(27,985 posts)
44. Wow, quite a story you have. Or recital. Story makes it sound false and I know it isn't.
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 10:09 PM
Mar 2014

I would have been quaking in my boots, but I could have served on that jury.

I have been excused from three other juries because they were drug related. Since I believe that no drug should be illegal or criminalized, yeah, you read that right, and because I am scrupulously truthful and quite able to explain my position, though few agree, I've been booted three times. They knew I would find not guilty. Now, do I have a problem with the things people do to get the money for their drugs? Sure. I can hear a case about robbery r/t getting money for drugs. But if the defendant is there because they got caught with any illegal substance, I will find for the defendant. I love serving on juries - I'm all about the civic duty. I never lied and I never got to hear a single case. But they did examine my POV closely since many just try to get off of jury duty. I had no problem explaining in detail why I believed and continue to believe as I do.

Yours though. Wow, that's hard. I'm very blessed to never have been sexually assaulted. I know that makes me about as rare as a unicorn but I've had my trials and tribulations, just not that one, thank the gods.

locks

(2,012 posts)
45. Thank you for the post
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 10:12 PM
Mar 2014

I have very, very strong opinions about jury selection and questions asked. In the highly publicized cases potential jurors must answer hundreds of personal questions, any one of which can be reason to be stricken. This makes the whole justice system a farce. I believe there should be only one question and that is: do you swear that you will listen carefully to all evidence presented and try to judge this case according to the law and judge's orders? This is what we owe our peers, neighbors, and country, and that is all.

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
49. Yes. I looked him up today (after I made this post) when someone asked for follow up.
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 10:26 PM
Mar 2014

That was the accused. There was another story about him being denied bail: http://www.theoaklandpress.com/general-news/20131206/deputies-man-with-long-criminal-record-charged-with-sex-assault-on-pontiac-teen

Now I wonder if "the other baby momma" was the aunt? I didn't hear the evidence, just the accusation.

This has obviously been haunting me for the last couple of days. Truthfully, I am stunned by the kind words and positive response this post has been generating - I expected it to drop quickly because it was so long...

I've been reading every word people have been saying. Thank you, everyone!

Seriously, thank you!

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
51. You did the right thing in telling the truth.
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 10:35 PM
Mar 2014

Think of how you would feel if, after sitting through the trial and determining this defendant was guilty, he would get off because someone found out about your experiences. I don't know how that could happen, but you never know.

Also, in answer to your question about whether the jury would know that this was a third strike, they would never know. The jury cannot know anything about prior charges. I sat on a jury for a drunk driving charge, and after we were done with the trial and had rendered a verdict, the judge came in to talk to us. He thanked us for our service, and he also gave us more info, like that this was the defendant's 16th DUI arrest. But we could only make a decision on this particular instance. Kinda sucked if you ask me, but I guess it is more fair.

 

peace13

(11,076 posts)
52. I send peace and love to you.
Sun Mar 23, 2014, 12:01 AM
Mar 2014

You were an important part of this young woman's story. I hope that justice is done. You were strong and brave and did the right thing! This brings tears.

Douglas Carpenter

(20,226 posts)
53. That is good to be honest about one's limitations of bias. Everyone has them
Sun Mar 23, 2014, 01:05 AM
Mar 2014

Last edited Sun Mar 23, 2014, 03:55 AM - Edit history (1)

I do recall the case that was brought to attention in the 2003 Oscar nominated film "Capturing the Friedman's" in which Mr. Arnold Friedman, an award winning Long Island high school teacher and his son were convicted of child molestation in 1986. There no question that Mr. Friedman did possess a large amount of illegal nude photography from the Netherlands of children. But as we look at the details of how the prosecution handled the case and their methods of interrogation - it appears that though Mr. Friedman was undeniably guilty in the child pornography charges - But the far more serious charges of molestation and child sexual assault are doubtful.

It is possible to be guilty of one serious offense and not the other. If one recognizes that they may have trouble remaining unbiased in any criminal case - it is doing the right thing and the honorable thing to step aside. You should be commended for doing that.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
54. By telling your story "on the record," you performed a public service.
Sun Mar 23, 2014, 01:30 AM
Mar 2014

There are still some calcified brains out there that don't grasp the fact that child molestation really happens and that when it does it leaves the young victim emotionally scarred for life.

For many victims, being sexually abused as a child is a life sentence.

Thanks for educating every person in the courtroom about the repercussions of child molestation. And thanks for reminding us on DU that child molestation is not about sex. It's about harming a child.

TxDemChem

(1,918 posts)
55. Thank you for sharing.
Sun Mar 23, 2014, 01:33 AM
Mar 2014

I think your honest answers were extremely important and appropriate. I'm amazed at how many victims there are of sexual assault. I used to think we were a small minority, but this has really opened my eyes. I don't know that I could have been impartial in such a case, but it does break your heart at the prospect of a child being raped.
The next time I am called for jury duty, I will keep you in mind an answer honestly. I would hate for my bias to doom an innocent person to prison.

Dustlawyer

(10,495 posts)
60. As a lawyer is is always frustrating when it is time to pick a jury.
Sun Mar 23, 2014, 08:10 AM
Mar 2014

Too many people will lie to get out of doing their duty. It seems so wrong that when there is something as serious as a rape trial to have potential jurors lying to either get out of jury duty, or more insidious, to get on the jury because they have their own agenda. People's lives are at stake and others cannot be bothered because they don't want to sit and listen for a few days. You did exactly the right thing, thank you for participating!

Dustlawyer

(10,495 posts)
67. I agree, I don't want anyone with an agenda. I see to many RW jurors who try not
Sun Mar 23, 2014, 11:24 AM
Mar 2014

to say anything during Voir Dire and then get back in the jury room and do anything to prevent an award. We take civil injury cases on a contingent fee, meaning we pay all case expenses which we don't get back if we lose. We also get $0, so we try to take only legitimate cases. If we start working a case and determine that it is too weak we hand the file back to the client and they are free to try and hire someone else. There is not an epidemic of frivolous cases because we would go broke. All of the tort reform has people believing that most cases they will serve on as a juror are frivolous and victims get victimized again.
Jury duty is very important and I am glad that this lady treated it the way she should. I thank her for her service!

PasadenaTrudy

(3,998 posts)
68. I really dread jury duty
Sun Mar 23, 2014, 11:42 AM
Mar 2014

I'm an extreme introvert, I have CFS, fibromyalgia, depression, emotional fragility. I have a hard time just going out for groceries let alone the downtown L.A. criminal courts bldg. I just get so nervous on the panel phase, when the judge and attorneys ask questions. I just don't think I'd be a good juror. Needless to say, I've always been excused. Last time it was because I had recently lost two family members and I was crying. Hard for me to go and I seem to get a yearly summons....I may see if I can get an excuse from my psychiatrist next time.

former9thward

(32,028 posts)
69. Cause is done by a judge, peremptory is done by an attorney.
Sun Mar 23, 2014, 12:01 PM
Mar 2014

In short in Peremptory attorneys on both sides of the case can excuse jurors without stating a reason by means of a peremptory challenge. They are limited in the number of strikes they have and will use them only on the jurors they feel most likely to hurt their case. The idea behind the peremptory challenge is that both sides contribute to the final makeup of the jury.

With For Cause the judge excuses potential jurors. The judge is not limited in the number of jurors removed for cause. Attorneys can request that a judge remove a juror for cause or a judge can do it on his or her own motion. Basically the judge is saying that because of the bias of the juror, the juror can't be relied on to give a fair verdict.

cate94

(2,811 posts)
63. Beautifully written account.
Sun Mar 23, 2014, 09:01 AM
Mar 2014

This was such a moving account of your day!

Thank you for sharing. Thank you for caring about doing your civic duty. Thank you for being so honest about your life.

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
70. UPDATE: Thank You for the Kind Words!!!
Mon Mar 24, 2014, 10:28 AM
Mar 2014

I wrote the piece, truthfully expecting it to drop like a stone due to the length, while struggling to put the entire incident in perspective. I was shocked and flattered at the compliments on my writing style, and honored to have made it to the Greatest Page, especially when there were so many other wonderful posts during the same period.

I will be scouring the local news for the end of this story, and promise to update DU when it happens. In the meantime, if you are interested, if you click on this story "Appeals Court Ends Brief Period of Marriage Equality in Michigan" http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/03/22/same_sex_couples_start_getting_married_in_michigan.html and scroll down to the third photo entitled "The line of gay couples waiting to apply for marriage licenses at the Oakland County Clerk's office." you can see the building I was inside - I was on the second floor on Thursday, while these folks were on the first Saturday morning.

I also have to add that it was an amazing and important experience, and I was honored to be a part of our justice system, even if it was only as an excused-for-cause juror. Back in early February I had posted a little hissy-fit about people who don't believe victims, and ended up putting a score of people "on hide"; I hope this helped explain my reaction, for which I will *NOT* apologize.

Yes, I have biases, including issues with child-and-rape pornography. I'm good with that.

Thank you for being here, DU. I really appreciated that I had a safe place to share this experience.

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