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Oh My, International Laws Violated (Original Post) kpete Mar 2014 OP
UNREC brooklynite Mar 2014 #1
OP is pointing out the hypocrisy of the U.S. rusty fender Mar 2014 #2
Problem is none of those cases make an analogy. treestar Mar 2014 #5
I'm sure that the cartoonist would rusty fender Mar 2014 #8
Even that, we never intended to keep Iraq treestar Mar 2014 #21
We broke it rusty fender Mar 2014 #22
Actually we kinda did. RC Mar 2014 #27
What exactly did we intend to do with it? LisaL Mar 2014 #35
Unrec facts? The US hasn't invaded any countries in recent history? sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #15
OP doesn't give a shit. tridim Mar 2014 #28
Are we still pretending that Crimea was "invaded"? reformist2 Mar 2014 #3
Crimea was invaded. I don't think that is in question. The question may be whether Russians were okaawhatever Mar 2014 #10
This is so silly. I get that this is the Obama Admin's official line, but it's just not true. reformist2 Mar 2014 #12
I am not taking into consideration what Obama's official line is. I'm going by what the A.B.C.'s of okaawhatever Mar 2014 #19
Even those who would like that to be true, are not making that claim. Crimeans voted sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #18
Migration isn't the same thing treestar Mar 2014 #4
Ever since Cro-Magnons supplanted Neanderthals, there has been upheaval and change. randome Mar 2014 #6
Just the truth malaise Mar 2014 #7
thanks kpete Mar 2014 #24
If you follow the logic of Ted Rall Cali_Democrat Mar 2014 #34
Is Obama supposed to give all that back? Whisp Mar 2014 #9
Why isn't it all "stolen from Native Americans". hughee99 Mar 2014 #11
Unrec for history fail. NuclearDem Mar 2014 #13
What do you expect from a fool? ProSense Mar 2014 #33
another example of the far left touching the far right snooper2 Mar 2014 #14
International law which was largely developed post-WWII Spider Jerusalem Mar 2014 #16
America bashing and Obama bashing rolled into one! JaneyVee Mar 2014 #17
The French better not complain either, given what they did in the Norman Conquest. Nye Bevan Mar 2014 #20
Silly. We've become so much better than we were back then. L0oniX Mar 2014 #23
LOoniX kpete Mar 2014 #25
...^ that 840high Mar 2014 #30
Thanks, Obama. tridim Mar 2014 #26
This message was self-deleted by its author Cali_Democrat Mar 2014 #31
Crimea's 'Russian majority' is the result of modern era ethnic cleansing of Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #29
And the Tatars still in Crimea are fearful as to what will happen to them now. Ikonoklast Mar 2014 #36
Ted Rall is a fool ProSense Mar 2014 #32
 

rusty fender

(3,428 posts)
2. OP is pointing out the hypocrisy of the U.S.
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 10:44 AM
Mar 2014

claiming that another country, other than the U.S., has broken international laws. But then, you knew that...

treestar

(82,383 posts)
5. Problem is none of those cases make an analogy.
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 10:53 AM
Mar 2014

We could then go back to the Russians originally settling in Crimea as having "stolen" it.

Nobody is right in these cases. Except to attempt to find a way to live in peace. The US has pretty much done that. And been a home to many migrants, and none of it planned by one central authority.

The Russians in Crimea are more like the Protestants in Northern Ireland. There was a big push to make a foothold there.

 

rusty fender

(3,428 posts)
8. I'm sure that the cartoonist would
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 11:18 AM
Mar 2014

have gotten to our invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan and to all those "coup d'etats" that the CIA conducted in foreign countries, if he hadn't run out of paper...

treestar

(82,383 posts)
21. Even that, we never intended to keep Iraq
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 05:28 PM
Mar 2014

And make it part of the US, so that is not quite analogous either. Iraq was wrong, period, but we weren't going to colonize it.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
15. Unrec facts? The US hasn't invaded any countries in recent history?
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 11:42 AM
Mar 2014

Makes it difficult when the whole world KNOWS the facts, for the US to bring up the subject at all, doesn't it?

And did the Iraqi people get to vote on being invaded?

Or Afghanistan?

okaawhatever

(9,462 posts)
10. Crimea was invaded. I don't think that is in question. The question may be whether Russians were
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 11:27 AM
Mar 2014

truly in harms way prior to the invasion.

okaawhatever

(9,462 posts)
19. I am not taking into consideration what Obama's official line is. I'm going by what the A.B.C.'s of
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 11:52 AM
Mar 2014

military invasions are. Look at almost any small area invasion and this was a by-the-book military invasion. Takeover of airport, taking down comms, so on and so forth. There was absolutely no reason to do those things to protect the ethnic Russian population. The soldiers who did it (including the takeover of the gov't building for the vote to remove the head of parliament) were trained, rehearsed and the op was professionally executed. That is an invasion.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
18. Even those who would like that to be true, are not making that claim. Crimeans voted
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 11:50 AM
Mar 2014

to be part of Russia. That's what happens when you back coups in places that are none of our business. There are unintended consequences. It helps to know the history of the regions we have 'interests' in before jumping into the fray.

With people like McCain calling the shots, there is a good chance there WILL be consequences.

Had they all waited for an election, Crimea would still be part of Ukraine. Makes you wonder why they were all in such a hurry.

I see the IMF moved in fast and plans to do in Ukraine what they've done everywhere else they have gone with their 'loans' which in reality have always turned out to be down payments on those countries' natural resources etc for the 'Global Investors'.

You should be far more worried about the people in Ukraine who are about to see their pensions, their jobs, any social programs they may have, 'cut' so that the working class can be extorted to pay the debts of the Wall St gamblers who made off with their money, still won't be prosecuted, (only place they were was in Iceland). To see the future of Ukraine, look at Greece.

Or Spain, or Ireland or Portugal, Argentina, and so many, many places in Africa. It is not a bright future, well not for ordinary people.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
4. Migration isn't the same thing
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 10:50 AM
Mar 2014

The more I learn of history the more I think it is useless to object to it.

The English and Irish, among others migrated here. But then look at the history of England and Ireland. Earlier, people from Scandinavia and Europe migrated there. Just about every country on earth has people in it who weren't there originally.

Crimea would be the same. We already know that Russians had moved in. Study the area and like other areas, it has waves of migration.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
6. Ever since Cro-Magnons supplanted Neanderthals, there has been upheaval and change.
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 10:56 AM
Mar 2014

That's not to say that atrocities should be part of that change.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Precision and concision. That's the game.[/center][/font][hr]

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
34. If you follow the logic of Ted Rall
Sun Mar 23, 2014, 11:47 AM
Mar 2014

No country is allowed to criticize Putin. The boundaries of nearly every country on Earth have been forged in blood. From the US, to Canada to France to China. I could go on and on.

So essentially nobody is allowed to criticize Putin for his invasion.

This OP is some serious derp.

Just thought I'd let you know.

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
9. Is Obama supposed to give all that back?
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 11:23 AM
Mar 2014

I appreciate the toon and understand it, but what Can be done is no More of That, and I believe the President is in agreement so I do not agree the Obama is the one being hypocritical but the entire nation and it's many leaders before him.

hughee99

(16,113 posts)
11. Why isn't it all "stolen from Native Americans".
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 11:30 AM
Mar 2014

Wasn't the stuff that we stole from Canada, Mexico and Spain just stolen by THEM from Native Americans first?

 

NuclearDem

(16,184 posts)
13. Unrec for history fail.
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 11:32 AM
Mar 2014

With the exception of Iraq and Afghanistan, all the examples here occurred before the agreement by the international community to not tolerate wars of aggression and other war crimes.

Not that I'm okay with manifest destiny at all, but if we're going this far back to scream "hypocrisy", then no major nation on earth can comment on anything another does ever.

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
14. another example of the far left touching the far right
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 11:36 AM
Mar 2014

completing the politcal circle


It's like the stupid always ends up on the bottom

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
16. International law which was largely developed post-WWII
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 11:43 AM
Mar 2014

in response to Germany's war of aggression for territorial expansion and conquest (with the result that post-WWII right of conquest is not recognised as legitimate; this is at the crux of the dispute over the West Bank and Golan Heights, for instance).

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
20. The French better not complain either, given what they did in the Norman Conquest.
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 11:59 AM
Mar 2014

And the Italians need to shut up, obviously, because of what the Holy Roman Empire wrought.

And the British? And the Germans? They better not say anything.

But I will listen to what the chief of the Mashantucket Pequot tribe has to say.

 

L0oniX

(31,493 posts)
23. Silly. We've become so much better than we were back then.
Sun Mar 23, 2014, 10:47 AM
Mar 2014

I mean sheesh ...we have big bombs now.

Response to tridim (Reply #26)

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
29. Crimea's 'Russian majority' is the result of modern era ethnic cleansing of
Sun Mar 23, 2014, 10:59 AM
Mar 2014

the indigenous Tatar people in 1944. They were forced onto boxcars for relocation in Central Asia, hundreds of thousands of them. Their homes and lands were taken by Russians who moved into Crimea after the native Muslims were either dead or removed.
That seems to slip the minds of many who offer commentary. I guess because they were Muslims they don't count? Or was Russia right to relocate them by force in one of the swiftest ethnic depopulations in the history of the world?
'The majority voted to be Russian, sorry' leaves out the bone of the issue.

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
36. And the Tatars still in Crimea are fearful as to what will happen to them now.
Sun Mar 23, 2014, 12:24 PM
Mar 2014

But, no one here gives a crap about their plight, they don't fit in the narrative.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
32. Ted Rall is a fool
Sun Mar 23, 2014, 11:36 AM
Mar 2014

Obama isn't 500 years old.

Putin's Own Historical Injustice

By Michael Bohm

Among Russians, the most common justification for the annexation of Crimea is that the Kremlin is rectifying a historical injustice...Here is Crimea's history in brief: It had been Russian territory since 1783, when Catherine the Great seized it from the Ottoman Empire....in 1954, Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev transferred Crimea to Ukraine as a "gift" to mark the 300th anniversary of Ukraine's union with Russia. But this was a symbolic gesture only, the argument goes....But what about that pesky 1994 Budapest Agreement or the 1997 Treaty of Friendship, both of which were signed by Russia and recognized the territorial integrity of a Ukraine that included Crimea?

<...>

If Putin is committed to reversing all of the historical injustices committed against Russia, why not revoke the Belavezha Accords, signed on Dec. 8, 1991? After all, Yeltsin and the leaders of Ukraine and Belarus had no legal authority to dissolve the Soviet Union...In Tuesday's address, Putin scorned Russia's weakness and inability to defend Crimeans in 1991. "Russia handed over the Crimeans to Ukraine like bags of potatoes," he said. "Russia dropped its head and swallowed the loss … but the people could not come to terms with this historical injustice."

<...>

Putin's provocative position that the Soviet collapse was historically unjust is understandably causing alarm in other Soviet republics. Ukraine is most concerned, of course, but Kazakhstan is also uneasy, where about 30 percent of the population concentrated in Kazakhstan's northern regions on Russia's border are ethnic Russian...What's more, the Kremlin could use the Crimea argument that Kazakhstan is also historically Russian territory. After all, Kazakhstan was a part of the Soviet Union for 70 years. What if Putin wants to rectify the "historical injustice" of having lost Kazakhstan in 1991?...Russia could even go back to the 1918 Treaty of Brest-Litovsk. Like the Belavezha Accords, many believe the treaty was forced upon Russia when the country was weakened by World War I. In accordance with the 1918 treaty, Russia had to give the Baltic states to Germany. And to add insult to injury, the treaty forced Russia to recognize the independence of Ukraine. (The Bolsheviks got their revenge four years later, however, when Red Army seized power and installed a puppet government that "voluntarily" joined the Soviet Union in 1922.)

<...>

Putin could also raise the issue of Alaska. Taking full advantage of Russia's weak financial condition after its disastrous loss in the Crimean War of 1853-56, the U.S. bought Alaska for a mere $7.2 million. Adjusted for inflation, that amounts to only $120 million. If Putin corrects this historical injustice by revoking the original purchase agreement, he would surely have the support of many Russians who believe that Alaska rightfully belongs to Russia...reliance on rectifying supposed historical injustices is a slippery one. Take, for example, Crimea itself. Turkey could turn Russia's argument on its head and say Crimea is historically part of its territory.

So could the Crimean Tatars, who lived in large numbers on the peninsula before Josef Stalin deported them in 1944. Don't they have a right to correct their historical injustices as well?

- more -

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/putins-own-historical-injustice/496553.html

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024697593
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