This is rape culture

[BainsBane]

and it is very much alive in America and throughout the world.

[Warren Stupidity]

1. That thread in our MRA safe haven. That thread.

I couldn't come up with a response that wasn't just "you have to be fucking kidding me".

[BainsBane]

2. A new thread?

Fuck.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

8. I find it ironic...

That you post a link to an activist who is absolutely begging for people to discuss rape regardless of how uncomfortable it makes people, but immediately use a a "wretch" smiley when people you apparently hate do exactly that.

Bizarre.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[BainsBane]

21. yeah, the difference

Is Clementine Ford seeks to combat rape. Did the point that rape isn't a good thing get by you?

[ConservativeDemocrat]

23. You should quit lying about other DUers

We all understand that you're full of hatred, but claiming that anyone wrote a "pro-rape" thread on the DU simply marks your decent further into self-parody.

There are legitimate reasons to say "don't blame me - blame the rape culture" is not actually an excuse for being a rapist. But it's plainly obvious you're not interested in any sort of discussion.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[BainsBane]

24. I referenced no DUer

But rather the point of the OP. You on the other hand insulted a DUer, me. It's clear you came into this OP looking for a fight with me, so you found one. You couldn't even bother to respond to the poster who read and described the DUers you consider so superior to me. You instead accused me of lying about a thread I never saw or described.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

29. You're denying what you wrote?

1. The topic was your "wretch" icon about a thread in the DU about rape.

2. I stated it was ironic you were doing this since your OP features a woman saying explicitly that rape needs to be discussed

3. You wrong "yeah, the difference Is Clementine Ford seeks to combat rape. Did the point that rape isn't a good thing get by you?"

4. It is undeniable that you are attempting to insinuate that the other DUers, including myself, are pro-rape. You are holding out that "rape isn't a good thing" as a difference.

Your disingenuous sophistry gets you nowhere.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

p.s. For anyone more rational than BainsBane who wants to investigate the complexities of how best to attack the permanent problem of sexual predation, I'd recommend this link to start: https://medium.com/matter/f121382adebb

[BainsBane]

30. What I wrote is clear

and it references no DUers. I am responsible for what I write but not what you think about it. You are not entitled to police thought crimes. I can hardly lie about a DUer when I don't mention a DUer. That you work yourself into a rage over what you think might be in my head is your problem entirely. You didn't even bother to confront the person who linked to or characterized the other thread. Instead, you came straight for me. You couldn't be more transparent. Let's make one thing perfectly clear. You have no right to control what I think. When I see people denounce rape prevention campaigns as "haranguing men," I have every right to form an opinion. That you consider my thought a "lie" is meaningless.

I'd like to know what is this hierarchy of Duers is that is above approach while you accuse me of being a liar and full of hate? Why is it okay for you to directly insult a DUer? What exactly is it that makes me so inferior to those who turn to the American Enterprise Institute in order to deny rape culture?

Clearly you have no idea what the video is about. it is not that people need to talk about rape. It is about rape culture, the very thing the members you consider so superior to me deny exists. You couldn't even bother to watch then video and instead decided the point of this thread was to find someone for you to take your anger out on. The Bennyboy approach to DU is getting old. Find another outlet for your frustrations. I have nothing to do with your life, and it's going to stay that way. You have no basis to assume I am irrational. You are the one who jumped down my throat over a barf icon and can't even bother to watch the video that is the point of this OP. You response has been entirely emotional, hasn't engaged with the content of the OP, insisted that I am "lying about other DUers' for harboring thoughts you don't approve of while simultaneous hurling a slew of insults against me. I see a lot of projection on your part. I really don't care what your reasons for it are, just leave me out of your shit.

All questions posed above are rhetorical. I am not interested in further discussion with someone who has been as consistently rude and insulting as you have toward me.

[seabeyond]

32. ya.

[hrmjustin]

35. .

[ConservativeDemocrat]

41. Did the point about not lying get by you?

This is the question you posed: "Did the point that rape isn't a good thing get by you?"

1. Who is the "you", that you are referencing here?

2. Is that "you" that you referenced a DUer?

3. Do you imagine that, in this context, "it references no DUers" - when you were referencing me - is not a deliberate misstatement of fact on your part (a.k.a a lie?)

4. Do you still feel entitled to evade responsibility for deliberately asking insulting questions through such sophomoric evasions?

5. Do you imagine that after you started posting barf icons, clearly intending this towards other an entire other group of DUers you happen to disagree with on this issue, that you are the injured party who in no way deserved my initial response pointing out that your reaction is precisely the opposite of the position of the woman whose video you recorded?

You are right in one respect. There is no discussion here. This is not a constructive conversation, because you are not a constructive person. Unlike the "mens group" people, I actually agree that there is a "rape" subculture. Just as there is a "drug-user subculture". A "gangsta" subculture. A white-supremacist subculture. And a host of other criminal subcultures which posit that some crimes aren't really so bad. But the fact that you are apparently unable to actually speak to the issues with DUers, and instead fall back on posting insulting icons instead, and then direct insults to people who point it out, speaks volumes about your level of maturity.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[hrmjustin]

42. Seems like your the one who came in to pick a fight,.

[Rex]

44. Come on now, they are a proud member of the ahem

what is that again? Reality Based Community. Must have stumbled their way into the virtual world by mistake.

[Warren Stupidity]

15. Yup.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1114&pid=13536

Rape culture? Just more oppression heaped on top of the downtrodden white male.

[redqueen]

19. Google the thread title, and see who else is celebrating that news release.

Nothing surprising, just more confirmation.

[hrmjustin]

3. K&R!

[hrmjustin]

17. kicking again.

[cui bono]

4. k n r

[niyad]

5. k and r

[Cleita]

6. ...

[CFLDem]

9. No kidding.

[TDale313]

7. K & R

[Maedhros]

10. Excellent presentation. [n/t]

[DeSwiss]

11. K&R!

[jamzrockz]

12. I tend to watch MSNBC lockdown program

and i remember one of the episodes where they brought in a guy that was accused of rape. I think one of the inmates got information about the charge against him and with his first opportunity, he jumped him. He lost several teeth, had tears inside his mouth and only god knows the kind of headache he got from the attack.

The point of this story is that even criminals and rapists in prison think very lowly of men who rape women. You have a better chance of not being attacked if you said you killed a man than saying you raped a woman. This is a better indication of what society thinks of rapist than anything else you can come up with.

[mercuryblues]

13. if that

were entirely true, there would be no such thing as prison rape.

[jamzrockz]

16. You see

this comes from the idea that raping innocent, helpless people is not accepted by society and women and children are considered by most societies to be innocent and helpless while men are not. This is the reason why male rape is somewhat acceptable especially in the prison system where everybody in it is considered to be guilty. This is another reason why some people in society will look the other way when a prostitute is raped because they are not seen by society to be innocent.

[seabeyond]

18. an illusion. once a girl hits puberty free game. the chants to get girls drunk to rape. the blogs

to teach boys how to go about "seducing" to rape against will or... "seduce". rape porn where it is all about presenting rape as real, to get men off.

you live in such a g rated world if you really believe what you posted. and i have just lightly touched on how wrong you are, above with examples.

blurred lines song.

it is all over in society pushing raping our young girls and the men or boys right to rape.

all you are looking at is the stranger climbing thru the window or jumping out from the bushes. and ya... about all men are appalled by that rape. that would be your forced, legitimate, rape rapes. that would also be under 15% of the rapes. over 85% being date rapes or men/boys the victim knows.

[ismnotwasm]

14. Thank you

Wake up and seeing a flame bait thread abut rape is not my idea of a good morning. The airs the smell a bit.

[BainsBane]

22. the Enterprise Institute

now is an acceptable source usage if it serves the greater good of making rape even harder to prosecute.

[ismnotwasm]

25. Apparently so

I don't get it and I'm never gonna get it.

In another thread and another topic there's a sly little derailment comment; so close give giving it an answer which would just stir up the dogs shit smell; didn't.

[FrodosPet]

20. An old TV movie, but a powerful display of rape denial

Crappy video quality, but a very important part of television history.

Seeing this film as a teenager, realizing how many different ways rape destroys lives had a powerful impact in my life. If anyone knows of a better quality version of this, please share.

[RiffRandell]

26. Dupe.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/125540257

[BainsBane]

31. So?

[hrmjustin]

40. Your allowed to have dupes except in LBN.

[JJChambers]

27. Rape culture is as ingrained as white privilege

It will take generations for us to cleanse this scourge from our society.

[BainsBane]

28. especially when people

don't care enough about the Lives of rape victims to do anything about it. All that requires for change is to each of us decide to no Longer perpetuate it: stop blaming victims and excusing assailants; quit consuming and justifying media that objectifies women; hold judges and prosecutors accountable and quit making excuses for allowing it to continue. I would include in that refraining from supporting RW articles trying to get women to stop talking about and fighting against rape culture.

[Warpy]

34. Morre so, since it preceded it.

[Texasgal]

33. K&R

Thank you!

[davidn3600]

36. Even RAINN says this "rape culture" thing is bullcrap...

In 16 pages of recommendations, RAINN urged the task focus to remain focused on the true cause of the problem. “In the last few years, there has been an unfortunate trend towards blaming “rape culture” for the extensive problem of sexual violence on campuses. While it is helpful to point out the systemic barriers to addressing the problem, it is important to not lose sight of a simple fact: Rape is caused not by cultural factors but by the conscious decisions, of a small percentage of the community, to commit a violent crime,” said the letter to the task force from RAINN’s president, Scott Berkowitz, and vice president for public policy, Rebecca O’Connor.

---

RAINN’s recommendations pointed to research that suggests that more than 90% of college rapes are committed by about 3% of college men (reliable research about female perpetrators is harder to come by). Based on that pattern of assaults by repeat offenders, RAINN stressed the importance of treating sexual assaults on campuses as the serious crimes that they are, and ensuring that there are meaningful consequences.

RAINN also stressed the need to de-emphasize colleges’ internal judicial boards. “The FBI, for purposes of its Uniform Crime Reports, has a hierarchy of crimes — a ranking of violent crimes in order of seriousness. Murder, of course, ranks first. Second is rape. It would never occur to anyone to leave the adjudication of a murder in the hands of a school’s internal judicial process. Why, then, is it not only common, but expected, for them to do so when it comes to sexual assault,” the letter asked. “The simple fact is that these internal boards were designed to adjudicate charges like plagiarism, not violent felonies. The crime of rape just does not fit the capabilities of such boards.”

http://www.rainn.org/news-room/rainn-urges-white-house-task-force-to-overhaul-colleges-treatment-of-rape

“The feminist obsession with rape as a symbol of male-female relations is irrational and delusional. From the perspective of the future, this period in America will look like a reign of mass psychosis, like that of the Salem witch trials … The fantastic fetishism of rape by mainstream … feminists has in the end trivialized rape, impugned women’s credibility, and reduced the sympathy we should feel for legitimate victims of violent sexual assault.”
-Camille Paglia

[BainsBane]

37. Tell us what in the video contradicts any of that?

Because no proponent of rape culture claims that rape is caused by anything but rapists. The culture makes rape more difficult to prosecute, blames victims, and defends rapists. The problem with this announcement is it gives cover to those who oppose rape prevention, who consider rape of women to be trivial or unimportant.

RAINN Denounces, Doesn't Understand the Concept of "Rape Culture"

The Rape Abuse & Incest National Network (RAINN) is one of the most active and important organizations in the country fighting sexual violence, so it's quite the head-scratcher to read about it denying the cultural factors that allow sexual predators to evade justice.


In a press release announcing RAINN's recommendations to a White House task force created to fight sexual assault on college campuses, its president, Scott Berkowitz, and vice president for public policy, Rebecca O’Connor, wrote:


In the last few years, there has been an unfortunate trend towards blaming 'rape culture' for the extensive problem of sexual violence on campuses. While it is helpful to point out the systemic barriers to addressing the problem, it is important to not lose sight of a simple fact: Rape is caused not by cultural factors but by the conscious decisions, of a small percentage of the community, to commit a violent crime.



This doesn't make sense. People who use the phrase "rape culture" do not deny that rape is a matter of individuals making the active choice to rape. "Rape culture" is a very useful way to describe the idea that rapists are given a social license to operate by people who make excuses for sexual predators and blame the victims for their own rapes. Instead of recognizing this, or, at the very least, just not bringing it up at all in its memo, RAINN instead bashes a straw man, arguing that the focus on "rape culture" diverts "the focus from the individual at fault, and seemingly mitigates personal responsibility for his or her own actions."


Feminists who coined and spread the phrase "rape culture" are not denying that rapists need to be held personally responsible for their criminal behavior. They are pointing out all the cultural reasons that this doesn't happen: the myth that false accusations are common, the myth that rapists are just confused about consent, and the myth that victims share the blame for drinking too much or otherwise making themselves vulnerable. Only by tackling these cultural problems will we be able to see clearly that rapists know exactly what they're doing and punish them for it. Rape culture doesn't cause the desire to rape, but it allows rapists to rape with the confidence that comes from knowing you're very unlikely to be prosecuted for it. Surely they have Google search at the RAINN offices that could have helped clear this up, but if not, an intern could have called one of the many feminists who speak out regularly about this issue to understand it better before dismissing it publicly.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/03/18/rainn_attacks_the_phrase_rape_culture_in_its_recommendations_to_the_white.html

[davidn3600]

43. Who considers the rape of a woman unimportant?

Who considers the rape of a woman unimportant? Give me an example? The town of Steubenville, Ohio?

Steubenville was more of a problem based on corruption and privilege....not hatred of women. Im willing to bet the Steubenville boys were getting away with all sorts of mischief before they raped that girl. That gave them a feeling of being above the law. And that enabled them to think they can get away with it. And the town wanted them to get away with it because football was more important than anything those boys did. Those boys were given a celebrity status by that town.

Our justice system has a big problem. Justice isn't blind. There is a strong bias in favor of the wealthy and those who have a celebrity status within the society (race too, but wealth and status carry even more weight in a courtroom). Rape is NOT the only crime these folks get away with. Look at that kid down in Texas that drove drunk and killed 4 people. He got probation.

This is why "rape culture" theory I feel misses the big problem. People get off the hook from all sorts of different crimes. Zimmerman got away with murder. OJ got away with murder. Rape isn't the only crime this happens with.

Rape is an individual crime. It's not a society crime. If 97% of college men don't rape women, are you suggesting the 3% that do make up an entire culture upon the rest of society?

[Nye Bevan]

38. Yes, I don't understand why colleges have their own procedures for rape allegations.

Why not just call the police and turn the investigation over to the trained professionals as soon as an allegation is made? If this had been done in the Sandusky case many victims would have been spared.

[seabeyond]

39. It would be the very rape culture that we discuss that allows a campus to not call the police

With a crime of rape and to keep it within the school to deal with internally. Rainn made the point of a rape culture we have got to destroy.