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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAffordable Health Care - Just Stop.
Can people that live in countries where they have actually never had to worry for a second in their lives about getting health care treatment stop lecturing people that live in US?
I'm serious. I see people from Canada and Australia lecturing people about how good the ACA is when they themselves will never have the problem of being homeless, bankrupt or dead because they can't afford health care.
That shit happens in the US. 40,000 people die per year due to lack of health care. If you live in a country that has either single payer or you have universal health care, don't comment on the American health care system. We get repeatedly screwed by it, and support for Obama does not equal deriding and screaming to high heaven about the fucked up system we live under.
You can support Obama and live in another country. You can criticize the American health care system vociferously if you live under it while still supporting the president. But you can't live under another, far more humane system than we do and tell us how much we should love the bullshit we put up with just because you support Obama.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)Certainly not from me. I sympathize with your situation and I told you that. I wish I could do something, but I can't. That's not lecturing and good luck trying to ban people from other countries speaking about certain subjects.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)It is about realizing that people that don't live under the health care system that we live under do not have a clue about what we face.
It's like lecturing someone on the benefits of walking to somebody that has no legs, or proselytizing the wonders of having a home where you can grow a garden to someone that is homeless.
To be frank, it's cruel. Passing judgment on people because they are frustrated with the health care system JUST BECAUSE Obama passed the ACA, and for no other reason because it doesn't affect you one way or the other, is ludicrous. You don't think most of us would give our eye teeth to have a system like that? Yet we are repeatedly told to STFU because "Obama!".
Whisp
(24,096 posts)That sympathizing with you isn't enough, I got to call Obama a piece of shit used car salesman, then you will be happy?
No sale.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Last edited Wed Mar 19, 2014, 09:31 PM - Edit history (1)
along with a bunch of other people that do not live in the US, but live in countries with universal health care, chiming in on how thankful we should be that the Affordable Insurance Act was passed. What a glorious day it is for people to get health insurance (but fuck them if they need actual health CARE).
It pisses me off to no end to see people that will never in their lives know the agony of choosing between health care to save their lives or the lives of their loved ones sit and pass judgment on those that will.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)That is the post I was replying to. That post is bullshit shit shit and there are plenty of people here that agree with me.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I will not retract that statement, and I am not alone in it. If getting something better means I have to complain about it, I'm going to complain. That's how it works. Nothing changes if people just go "that's the best we can do, and that's the way it is."
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)so I am amazed when I see ANYONE, Americans who can afford it, and people from other countries daring to tell Americans who have to struggle to find ways to stay ALIVE, how lucky they are. But MOST people from Canda and elsewhere do NOT have the gall to make such ridiculous statements.
It isn't the country, its the selfish, arrogant, segment of all populations that have that attitude.
I have friends in Canada eg, who are appalled at what Americans are subjected regarding their HC.
Just wanted to say that those you are talking about don't represent their respective countries, fortunately.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)and they are also appalled by the system under which we live. I'm not talking about folks from other countries, wholesale.
I'm talking about the handful of them that attack anyone and everyone on DU if they have a discouraging word that might be in some way linked to President Obama. It's to the point where it is ridiculous. That's why I made the post - not to slight our foreign brothers and sisters who post here in good faith. I'm talking about the folks that make it their mission to insult, ridicule and belittle those that dare to complain about US policies.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)being on a foreign forum where they are discussing some real problems facing the people there, and telling them to stfu and how lucky they are. I would expect to be kicked off that site frankly. But then I would have not the gall or lack of decency to do that.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)But it's other things, too. We should just STFU about spying. We should just STFU about health care problems in our country. We should just STFU and not discuss legitimate issues we have with our government.
Is this a political forum or not?
I'm rather tired of seeing the same bunch of people that do not live here come in and bash Americans that are discussing issues and seeking solutions to problems in our nation just because "Obama". I have never in my life been so enamored of a politician that I saw them as something other than what they are - human beings. Imperfect, fallible human beings. And it's okay to point out when a policy is fallible.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)issues like the Massive Spying, the constant violations of our rights, and rather than have any intelligent discussion, the minute someone even raises an issue anymore, immediately it's 'Obama'. Everything is about Obama, to THEM. It's simply inconceivable for them, or it's just a tactic, that for most Americans the President whoever it may be, is just not their primary focus in life. Their parents, children, LIVES which imho, are AS IMPORTANT as any president, are their concerns.
I find any kind of adulation creepy and dangerous to democracy. All politicians are to me are the people we gave a job to, because we all can't do it, a job they asked for. When they do it well, let them know, when they don't we most definitely must let them know.
I KNOW you are not the only one with these sentiments, there are LOTS of DUers who are sick and tired of what passes for political discussion here and are not fond of the people, the few, from other countries who have the gall to slam Democrats on this forum in this country for standing up for THIS COUNTRY.
Thanks for saying it and I back you 100%.
Maybe it's time for the admiins to clarify what this forum is supposed to be. Is it meant to be only a cheerleading, online campaign forum, or is it about ISSUES. Because if politics ISN'T about issues, what is it about? A team sport where the country takes second place?
No point wasting time on a forum where people have to walk on eggshells in order to support DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES and a whole lot of people have already made their decisions about that.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Politics is about policies, or at least it should be. Not personalities and "Go Team!".
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)My husband has wored a physically demanding job so we could hold onto health insurancke. I am a cancer survivor who lost my job and could not get insured afterward on my own. I have friends in similar circumstances who are now able to get badly needed health care denied to them before.
I never expected single payer to pass. I view ACA as a starting point on which to build. Until that happens, I remain grateful for the first step and will fight fo gain the steps to follow. Frankly, I consider some who rage so vociferously to be politically naive when it comes to fashioning policy while being faced with strong opposition.
This American supports the progress made thus far and will continue to support progress to come.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)and I'm glad that it has had a positive affect for you.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)their opinions?
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)because I already essentially stated my assessment and my future intentions.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Never mind, no one in this democracy needs permission to voice their opinions on policies, you, me or anyone else. But lately here on DU it appears some don't seem to understand that.
This legislation will work for some, it won't work for a whole lot of others. All of the reasons for this were expressed BEFORE it passed. We lost on all the important issues. Mainly the one thing that would have helped so many people, the PO and just because it passed doesn't mean people who were opposed to any bill without a PO, suddenly changed their minds.
I'm happy for any person who benefits from the bill. Not so happy for all those who will not.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)as the end game and organize based upon an agreed set of principles and goals to work together instead of sniping into the intertubes. Insisting that someone agree with you all of the time is counterproductive. We all need to work together. I have an issue or two that I don't exactly agree with you on but that doesn't mean that we are far removed on what we want for the nation. It is a valuable resource to be sble to entertain other points of view.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Wow. Fascinating. That is the hue and cry that was raised in this thread when I pleaded for more politeness. I was telling people what they "needed to think".
Nope, no hypocrisy there.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)are way off base. Third, try something besides stirring the honeypot for a change. Lastly, I am just as entitled to express an opinion as you and I was not telling anyone to stop thinking in the manner in which you are implying. I was suggesting an alternative view to be entertained by anyone who wishes to. Sabrina and I were having a civil discussion. Now tell me more about this politeness of which you speak because you certainly are not demonstrating it now.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Can you explain what you mean by that, because the usage of that terminology has been historically different.
I'm being polite and asking you what you mean instead of leaping to conclusions. It's what people typically do when attempting to hear what people mean.
Furthermore, I figured since this is a message board, I could post a message and ask a question and offer comments on other people's comments since that seems to be (incorrectly) what many people have gathered from my post.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)I don't think the tone or tenor of the comment you made that I responded to was polite, nor did it reflect that you had actually read my post to Sabrina with any thought or comprehension. Instead, you elected to jump on my case for something that I did not say. This is a message board and you can ask or say anything you want. Perhaps it would help if you read your commments for tone before you hit the post button.
Now that you've toned it down a bit, please consider how you sound to others. I'm just sick of being constantly slammed and seeing others denigrated for trying to express an opinion. I rarely aggressively stand up for myself, but I am doing so now. When someone does not agree with you on all points, it is okay. It is not the end of the world and that does not make the person a mortal enemy.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)worked on together. I don't know anyone who was under the illusion that we could get Single Payer right off the bat. But most of us DID think a PO was more than possible and we were encouraged to think that. I don't want to go back and re-argue all that happened, it's done and no use talking about it all over again. But it was a chance in a lifetime to move closer to a humane HC system at least comparable to what other developed nations take for granted.
The sense of disappointment was real. Trying to slap down people who put so much work and effort, time and energy into supporting those we thought had the power to get it done, won't help unite people. At least acknowledging that they had every right to feel betrayed and used would be a gesture to help begin to reorganize and then perhaps, instead of attacking anyone who is being honest about their feelings, explain to them how the ACA could be a stepping stone towards Single Payer.
But what happens is, no one dares to question without risking all out attacks, so many just keep it to themselves. Perhaps that caused the impression that they had 'come around' and it's a surprise to find out that they had not.
This issue is way, way beyond politics. It isn't about Obama, or any individual politician, it's about people's lives and I can't THINK of a more important issue than that.
Anyhow, thanks for your civil comment, that is how people should discuss this issue and perhaps both sides could find agreement on certain points and then get past any sense of anger that they are not being heard.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)...that he or she should be happy to settle for Far Less than YOU take for granted every day
IS kinda pompous....
doan cha think?
It might not be so bad,
except that it IS a Matter of Life & Death for us,
not so much for you.
You have No Skin in this game.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)...who have expressed their dissatisfaction with the protection of the Private For Profit Health Insurance Industry that was designed into the ACA by the Centrist "3rd Way" Democrats?
Really?
I had no idea that you weren't an American citizen OR a Democrat,
and had none of your skin or your children's skin in this game until the post above,
but that does explain your...... "detachment".
Whisp
(24,096 posts)i give a flying shit of your judgement of me.
ConservativeDemocrat
(2,720 posts)It's not worth it. They're simply here to vomit all over Democrats, both those in the party and the party electeds. They really belong in revleft.com, but like most trolls, crave attention, so come to the D.U. to spew their hatred.
You'd do much better getting involved in your local community Democratic parties and campaigns.
- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community
Marr
(20,317 posts)If you get free healthcare in your country, maybe you should just refrain from lecturing people don't have anything like that about how grateful they ought to be.
ConservativeDemocrat
(2,720 posts)"Completely lying their extremist asses off about what other people are 'lecturing'."
Good catch. Thanks for the reminder.
- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)HILARIOUS!!!!!!!!!!
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Uh, are you actually saying that the US health care system is a ridiculous and extremist topic for American citizens to discuss?
Who is eager to shut down conversation now? *point of my post
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Stop telling us how thankful we should be.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)People who live in foreign countries are NOT Democrats.
They don't vote for Democrats.
They don't GOTV for Democrats.
They don't walk their neighborhoods for Democrats.
They don't have to live with the consequences of Republican-Lite Policy.
THEY are the ones coming to DU to "vomit" on loyal Democrats who actually DO the above things.
It's bizarre.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)[font size=3]"You'd do much better getting involved in your local community Democratic parties and campaigns."[/font]
Ahhh....we ARE talking about people who do NOT live in the United States.
They do NOT have "local community Democratic parties and campaigns".
Please tell us more about this "Reality Based Community" in which you claim to live,
where the local Democratic Party has an office and campaigns in AUSTRALIA.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)quakerboy
(13,921 posts)Its pretty clear that you couldn't give two shits about those of us here in the states, so why anyone would expect you to care about our judgement of anything, I dont understand.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)Response to Whisp (Reply #176)
HangOnKids This message was self-deleted by its author.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Obama advocates don't even live here. I'm glad they support the President, but it's kind of silly when they criticize people that actually live under the government of the US and have to contend with our ridiculous "health care" system about how lucky we should feel to have the ACA.
At least I have a point when I criticize policies that have been put into place, because I vote here and they affect me. When you live in another country and bash people that DO live here and are affected by decisions made because they don't support President Obama's every move, it's rather ludicrous.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)that some of his strongest advocates that don't even live here aren't really here for political discussion of any sort.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I'm not sure what their purpose is.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)I also disagree with.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I edited my post accordingly. I think we both have interesting suspicions as to why they are ready and willing to back anything the government supports.
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)This thread has been very illuminating, to say the least. It gives a whole new level to the gall it takes to insist we not criticize our leaders.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)And I've had enough of it, to be honest. If it hadn't been shoved repeatedly in my face to the point where I couldn't just grin and bear it, I never would have made this post.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Many are aware of how our health care system functions, especially those on DU who are knowledgeable about the subject.
Now you want to take shots at foreigners who post on DU?
It would be wise for us to take advice from people who live in countries with properly functioning health care systems, yet you want to attack them.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
This post is extremely xenophobic.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)and calling me xenophobic because I point out the disconnect between people that have universal health care and people in the US ... well, good luck. I love my brothers and sisters around the world just as much as those in the US. I just don't think I'm qualified to tell them what policies they should or should not support in their own countries. I certainly don't think I'm qualified to talk about issues in their health care system because ours in the US sucks ass.
I certainly don't think I'm qualified to discuss them simply on the basis of love for one of their politicians. And that's what 90% of this is. It's great because "Obama". It's awful because it is "anti-Obama" or slights him in some way.
That's not productive. Hero worship doesn't get things done.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)WTF? You don't know what kind of insurance I have.
You're also trying justify your xenophobia to me by referring to certain folks as hero worshipers.
I don't even know why I'm replying to you.
What a waste of time.
Andy823
(11,495 posts)What we have now is a foundation to build on, a real universal health care system. I think that getting ideas on how to do that, from those who have such a system already, could be very helpful.
While the ACA may not be perfect it has helped million get a chance to actually get medical help that they may need now or in the future. If we can get congress to act on fixing the things we think need to be fixed, it will help build on the foundation we now have. You can't build an in entire universal health care system over night, it will take time, and a congress that will work with the president, and with future presidents to make the needed changes.
Most of what I see these days from those who are mad at the president seem to be directing their anger in the wrong places. They need to complain to their representatives in congress, they need to talk with their state insurance commissioners and they need to tell their insurance providers how they about their issues. The only way we can change things is through congress, the president can not change things all on his own. Until we get rid of the republicans who are fighting the ACA tooth and nail to prevent the people from getting the health care they need, we can not make things change.
If we can make some gains in congress this year, and again in 2016, along with a democrat in the WH who will continue to build on what we have now, things will change, it's just going to take time.
arthritisR_US
(7,292 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)I'd call this a foundation for universal health care.
The ACA makes it easier for states to setup single payer systems:
http://www.occupydemocrats.com/vermont-makes-promise-people-video/
Bettie
(16,126 posts)What we have with the ACA is a start.
It isn't what I wanted to see, not even close, but it still moves us in the right direction.
And, to be clear, I am a US citizen, living in the US, though we get health ins. through my husband's work at this time (which may negate my being allowed to have an opinion on this).
I would love to see single payer and I feel that the Dems (including the president) had no backbone on the issue and gave in too quickly.
However, we cannot change that which has already happened, so we have the ACA, now we need to work to make it better, to make it work for more of us.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)It IS a giant LEAP toward the Privatization of access to Health Care in America.
By LAW, every American citizen is required to BUY Health "Insurance" from For Profit Corporations.
We are going to be STUCK with this for a LONG time.
Our Public Treasury has NOW been opened to these vultures to the tune of about $100BILLION dollars/year.
That makes the $4 Billion/year going to the Oil Corps look like chump change.
.
.
but what the hell,
Wall Street got their Trillion Dollars,
why not another TRILLION for their incestuous 1st Cousin...The Health Insurance Industry.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)in their Red state? What about those false criticisms....what are you going to say about that?
ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)Medicaid expansion wouldn't have helped.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)guilty conscience?
AND please explain this ridiculous statement....
ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)you said something to me in another thread asking me if I was from a red state and I replied it was a purple state. Expanded Medicaid wouldn't help me...our income is too high.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)even see the hypocrisy!
Number23
(24,544 posts)ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)(or doesn't work) are two entirely different things.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)malokvale77
(4,879 posts)But, because Obama, STFU. That is what they are saying. WTF. And why the hell do they even care? They have what we don't.
But you know they are just dying to get here, LOL.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Because "Obama". You are not allowed to criticize any damn thing that happens in the US while Obama is President.
Marr
(20,317 posts)Every bit as obnoxious.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)I expect a link for this 'casual dismissal' - which is fucking bullshit because I haven't for one second felt 'casual' about someone worried about their health and their family's health.
What you interpreted as a dismissal is probably some snark reponse to a post that sounded like it came from a Repug still pulling that lever to repeal ACA for the 49th time.
but go ahead an accuse me of, o I don't know, ... how about Beastiality? That sounds good. Don't have to link or anything, just say it, go on.
lordy.
Marr
(20,317 posts)You've been all over ACA threads for years now, attacking critics. Are you really going to pretend that isn't the case?
I'm not going to waste ten seconds giving you a link to something you've posted a thousand times.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)I get in the mix, sure. Why the hell shouldn't I when I see all that misinformation and distortion that the repugs use, get used Here of all places.
So many LIES proven false over the years - but the team still has their fingers crossed that one of those lies will become the accepted as truth. The Cat Food commission frenzy is a dead story so the team is agitated. Agitating for the next meal of that kind of capnip that had many in ecstatic climaxes at the idea that Obama would starve old people and Like It!. good lawd.
Marr
(20,317 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)I was about finished with you as well.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)You've done a great job pointing out the hyperbole and the crap.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)The very people I refer to are *RIGHT* there, bashing that person, bashing their character, deriding them, etc.
The damn surveillance posts tell you that.
bluestate10
(10,942 posts)our system instead of swinging at Canadians and others that are lucky enough to be citizens of their countries?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)People that don't deal with a system, but tell others that the new system is just great because "Obama" and they don't live under it don't have any skin in the game.
It isn't grounded in the reality that far too many Americans face.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)I'm very sceptical that any system based around people relying on private healthcare insurance for their healthcare, rather than some form of state funding, can produce decent outcomes.
Skittles
(153,193 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)as long as it is all about profit, we are screwed.
Skittles
(153,193 posts)zeemike
(18,998 posts)I think we should create something new out of something old...simply by lowering the age for Medicare to 25 and allow anyone who wants to to buy into it...problem solved for several problems...the younger people in Medicare would make it more solvent and it would provide a competitor to the insurance industry...which I would guess piss them off.
Let the ACA stand on it's own, if it fails it failles but provide an alternative for people if we can't have single payer for all.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Let's create something new, and lowering Medicare to 25 would be an excellent start.
Rilgin
(787 posts)This is the right answer IMO. We need to replace our current hodge podge private profit driven health care system in its entirety (ACA included) with a modern system.
Those of us unhappy with Obama believe that is what 2009 represented, our best chance in a generation to modernize our health care system. Instead, this opportunity was squandered and given away in private meetings with Big Pharma and Big Hospitals and Big Insurance and a proven wrong theory of carrot driven bi-partisanship. I wonder what would have happened if Obama had chosen the other path of directly mobilizing public sentiment (at that time he could have brought a million people to the Mall) to directly and publicly fight these entities and the congressional lackeys who would have fought for the status quo. We have some who assert as "fact" rather than "opinion" that it would have been impossible to get more than the ACA. This is clearly true with some congress critters but I really wonder what a real political fight would have given us. Again, some of us had the same opinion at the time that it was a "fact" that no matter what he did the concept of bi-partisan action was a pipedream.
Last a metaphor.
Those who constantly provide an opinion (again not fact as supporters sometimes assert) that the ACA (institutionalizing insurance companies) is a step in the right direction in getting to single player (getting rid of Insurance Companies) is like someone in the middle of the Country who wants to get to Canada (chosen deliberately) saying the best way to get there is to first drive towards Texas (chosen deliberately) but pointing out to the rest of us who are unhappy that they are driving slower than the right wing uncle in the back seat wants to.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)It just won't be, and if that's what you meant, I agree completely.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)broken system for one reason or the other.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)from the ground up.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Skidmore
(37,364 posts)We get out of our system what we put into it. People sitting on votes are not contributing to any type of meaningful system any more than those who would seek to buy legislators. It is up to us to repair the system and to make certain it works. You are entirely out of line with the accusation.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)What people are you referring to, Skidmore?
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)Sitting out this election will not get us any closer to doing the work of the nation. And that happened.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Because that looks like what you are doing.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)I'm pointing to a problem on the left. I don't plan on dealing with another Teabagger congress or Ron Paul in the WH just because people refuse to look forward and build something new. I think too many become mired in this constant negativity and the drumbeat drowns out the constructive dialogue and the building of consensus.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I wasn't cheerful enough to suit you, so I'm going to stay home and not vote. Yep, because everyone on a political forum is disinterested enough in politics that they don't vote.
I'm assuming that people that regularly attend a forum on caring for eggplants don't have an eggplant garden and have no intentions of having an eggplant garden. Because, you know, people are like that. They hang out in places where they don't have any interest. I haven't hung out at the eggplant forum recently since I have no desire to grow or eat one, but I'll get right on that.
myrna minx
(22,772 posts)*That* happened. Not the urban myth that liberals sat out the 2010 election.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)When a Democrat loses, it is because of the "left". When a Democrat wins, it is in spite of the "left". That's the narrative, as though that would motivate the shit out of voters.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)because they were not willing to work within a party for change?
myrna minx
(22,772 posts)Everyone is always looking to unlock the mind of the squishy middle "moderate independent" voter.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)I'm not for a moment suggesting that a decent healthcare system is achievable in the USA, merely that no variation on your current theme will be much good.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)that you got insulted right along with the supposition the poster made?
It's truly uplifting to be called ignorant simply because you disagree with someone. /s
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)I think we need single payer. We will continue to toot along, this will only delay that. I said as much when the ACA was passed. Why we should have. Vermont might be what forces the country, like it happened in Canada. Truth be told, that be the State of California where we had single payer pass twice and was not allowed to go forth by the Guvernator.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)You know, those who want to focus on what's wrong with our system so that the problems can be fixed.
Meanwhile they enjoy better, often much better systems than we do.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)the utter destruction of it.....you don't even see that do you? You just just claimed that its about "fixing it" when the post JUST said they were against the ACA from the outset (but you diminished that by calling it "not happy"...disingenuous to say the least.)
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)But in response, it needs to be destroyed and replaced with single payer. No for profit insurance to over-ride the patients best interest.
I understand where you are coming from. So many Americans aren't from there.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)and HOW is it twisting his words when YOU just proved my point! You are doing the EXACT same thing....how disingenuous of you too!
Not to mention missing the forest for the trees. You might as well have expected Sparkle ponies too....because what you want is unrealistic. It was NEVER going to happen. If it was so easy why aren't certain states JUMPING at the chance to create their own Single Payer systems one by one just like Canada did (not to mention this very OP would expect the Canadian to just STFU about that). There is NOTHING in the ACA that prevents them from doing so...in fact they are encouraged to....if it was so simple...wouldn't those states do it right now?
Lets not forget that just "destroying the current system" outright would be very very harmful to those who for some is the very very first chance at affordable Healthcare? Apparently 5 million and counting think there might be something to this thing....
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)You are delusional. 5 million people, really? That's the size of one and a half of two large municipalities. Yay!
What about the rest of us? Do we not count? How many people do think live in this country?
It's not "affordable healthcare" (wait til they need healthcare). It's "not so affordable insurance" that covers little.
Most of the people that benefited already had insurance. They just get it cheaper now. The rest of us are still screwed.
i am one of those that will be penalized because I can not afford the premiums for insurance that will not cover anything that my county healthcare system does not already cover (my tax dollars pay for this).
I'm not into Sparkle ponies. I do however believe the wealthiest nation on the planet can well afford to take care of it's citizens.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)hahahahaha!!!!
How about Mammograms Pap Smears and Colonoscopies? Is that nothing? How about birth control coverage? Still "nothing". How about no pre-existing conditions? (nothing?) How about covering breast feeding equipment? How about not charging women twice as much as men for Health Insurance? Still nothing?
MALARKEY!
This is a BFD....just like Joe Biden said...AND so did Alan Grayson, and Bernie Sanders and Dennis Kucinich for that matter....But I guess YOU know better than all of them right?
Lars39
(26,116 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Lars39
(26,116 posts)It's one of those problems that need to be fixed pronto.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)they ALL had to be improved over time...it took Canada 20 yrs.....ooops will I be told to STFU now?
Lars39
(26,116 posts)malokvale77
(4,879 posts)It's mandated for profit insurance. There is a difference. It helps a few and hurts many.
riverbendviewgal
(4,253 posts)obama looked good in 2008 and 2009 but now looking south... I don't think so.. He just has a different colour coat on.
He might be not as dumb as W BUT he has the same bankers, wall street stock guys and elite pulling his strings.
very sad
Aerows
(39,961 posts)is equated with "destroying his Presidency!11!"
Can we fucking criticize something in this country without it being viewed as an attack on the Obama presidency?
There is hero worship, but then there is losing all sense in an attempt to "protect" him, as though he ever needed their help to stand on his own two feet.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)criticizing the president--which by the way I have--and calling him a piece of shit along with the big FU.
Do I think there are problems with ACA..absofuckinlutely. I think we should have universal healthcare.
I don't need to protect the president he has the Secret Service for that. I will however speak up when I think something over the top.
I'm sick of any positive thing said about Obama, any time someone speaks up and points out when something is wrong they're called hero worshippers, apologists, lock steppers, good germans and so on.
Can we just have discussions without all the labels?
FYI that rant has gone viral. It's on every right wing site and they're laughing their asses off at us. I'd be a bit more concerned with right wing assholes now lecturing us.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)*anywhere* that the President is a piece of shit. Please point to me where I said that. I refuse to accept guilt or guilt by association for something I have never, and never would say.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)reading your comments up thread (post 7) it appeared you were talking about that thread. I was not trying to do guilt by association; my apologies if you thought I was.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)because that was exactly what you were doing?
"I apologize if you were offended" isn't an apology at all.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)I misunderstood and I'm sorry.
underthematrix
(5,811 posts)the President's policies. My problem is with the level of immaturity of some of the arguments. It seems as if some folks here expect more from the President than they would ever expect from their parents. While other people speak in black and white terms as if the world really works that way. The arguments just seems very immature. Most of the time, I do not challenge the arguments because it would like speaking into the vacuum that is FOX HATE NEWS. Waste of time.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Yes, exactly. It's not sophisticated "criticism."
BuelahWitch
(9,083 posts)Leader of the Free World and all that, with an exceptional education and experience in government, which my mother did not have.
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)not really. That made me laugh. I'm thinking, my mother, with her lack of higher education, could do a pretty good job as president. She kept 8 freakin' heathens in line.
But seriously, we do expect a bit more from our President.
Thanks, you made my day. I think I can sleep sound now.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Change just a few words in your post and that could have been written about many others here.
Cha
(297,655 posts)and whine about him when you know nothing of what he's done for my country.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
I just felt it was time to discuss something that hasn't been discussed.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)I'm serious. I see people from Canada and Australia lecturing people about how good the ACA is when they themselves will never have the problem of being homeless, bankrupt or dead because they can't afford health care.
<...>
You can support Obama and live in another country. You can criticize the American health care system vociferously if you live under it while still supporting the president. But you can't live under another, far more humane system than we do and tell us how much we should love the bullshit we put up with just because you support Obama.
...also apply to the people in other countries who don't "support Obama" and are telling us how shitty Obamacare is, and that we should hate it? Should they also shut up?
I mean, those people have no "skin in the game" and a lot of Americans are glad that Obamacare made improvements in the right direction.
treestar
(82,383 posts)and was a step forward considering THIS country's politics.
Canadians, Australians and others can understand that.
how you got removed from my ignore list is truly a question for the ages, but I will be sure and rectify it posthaste.
Response to Aerows (Original post)
Post removed
Aerows
(39,961 posts)But shit happens to everybody.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)Still think it is funny?
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)You should see the reply right below mine.
That one had me in stitches.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)NOT!
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)I love to point out the obvious, so glad you agree.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)But I see you're very interested in my opinions. You even decided to ask me if I still thought a post was funny after it was hidden.
All I wrote was "hahahaha" and you were so very interested in my thoughts.
I'm actually quite flattered.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)Just playin'. Don't flatter yourself. Big thinker!
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)Ever heard of this thing called a rhetorical question? Done playin' Cali-Dem you have just bored me to bed. Not buying your late night bait. I'm sure your Mom thinks you are cute though.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)You set that one up like a 10-year-old pitcher.
Wham.
Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #218)
HangOnKids This message was self-deleted by its author.
treestar
(82,383 posts)WTF was so bad about it?
myrna minx
(22,772 posts)had to undergo painful treatment to avoid the possibility of contracting rabies. Apparently this is a source if mean spirited hilarity for some very cruel people. Worse hide ever? If we had any civility here, it would have been a 6-0 hide, but ridiculing people with medical debt is a sport for some. Disgusting.
treestar
(82,383 posts)I didn't.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)QC
(26,371 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)Stick to the issues and the point.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)when it directly impacts me and I get readily ridiculed, personally.
treestar
(82,383 posts)might be the answer.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)on politics and our lives?
I'll make a note of that. It is okay to ridicule people because treestar said that nobody should express an opinion or a life experience here.
treestar
(82,383 posts)It allows people to figure out who you are, sometimes. And you are open to the fact you can't prove it.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Carpe diem!
Aerows
(39,961 posts)is that I want to discuss ISSUES. That may include criticizing politicians and policies. It's this idea that every criticism of a politician should be taken as a personal attack and responded to with swift vengeance on a person that DARES to discuss an issue is what I my post is about.
I fixed the problem with treestar. I put her on ignore. She's free to say whatever she likes about me, because she is no longer a part of my interaction in the DU community. I really don't like ignoring people, but at some point, for your own sanity, you just have to.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Tempted to finish it off with the rest.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)but figured I would wait until this morning, That's a MIRT member too.
QC
(26,371 posts)have served as mods in the old days and as hosts and MIRT members more recently.
In fact, that particular member had to step down as host because he was using the position to further his longtime stalking campaign against another member.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)When you look at their postings it seems odd that it's allowed to continue.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)makes fun of me, and usually because I've disagreed with them on a tangential issue. Anything to get a blow in, I guess.
I'm made of stronger stuff, but it is kind of awful when you get piled on.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)What does happen to folks that pet wild animals and then have NO healthcare at all because SOME Americans think Obama is a "piece of shit used car salesman"?
JI7
(89,264 posts)and how great it was in Ukraine until someone came along with cookies.
Number23
(24,544 posts)for a while. But I have never ONCE seen one comment towards the non-Americans here that are as critical of the president as s/he is.
Apparently, she and her friends think that if someone leaves the U.S. (for work, for public duty, for military service, to travel the world etc.) then they don't have the right to say anything POSITIVE about the country or its government.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I could see how this touches a nerve.
Number23
(24,544 posts)You just keep showing everyone here how Ugly Americans get noticed on DU
I told you I hit a nerve.
Number23
(24,544 posts)even more nonsensical than usual. Sounds like it's somebody's night night time.
And FYI, whatever algorithm, spreadsheet or piece of your hiney that you're using to determine poster's nationalities needs an upgrade.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)where you state you are from Australia, but I really don't feel like it. Everyone else can do the research for themselves, anyway. You don't really matter enough for me to go to the trouble.
BTW - I'm putting you on ignore. Something I should have done long ago.
Number23
(24,544 posts)ONE. Uno.
You don't really matter enough for me to go to the trouble.
You know, I'd say the exact same thing if I was spewing stuff out of my hindquarters that everyone knew was bullshit too.
Edit: Just noticed your comment "BTW - I'm putting you on ignore. Something I should have done long ago."
which my previous comment to you is in absolutely perfect response to as well.
"You know, I'd say the exact same thing if I was spewing stuff out of my hindquarters that everyone knew was bullshit too."
Buh bye, now
Puglover
(16,380 posts)Maybe you meant something else?
Yeah yeah I know.
How DARE I respond to you.
i'm a stalker.
No I am not putting you on ignore.
Maybe I an save us some time here.
I know there is another one out there, too, because that isn't even the one I remember.
It's laughable. They make comments about THEMSELVES and then wonder why it sticks in people's memories. Like I said, though, I really don't care enough about that poster to go to the trouble of finding her other posts where she stated she was an Australian.
Spazito
(50,454 posts)There ARE Americans living outside the U.S. for any number of reasons and I believe Number23 is one. Seeing as she has been locked out of this thread from a rather benign post, I felt it would be fair for me to raise this for her.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)She's also posted before that she is an Australian. I didn't bother to look it up, because everyone already knows she is in Australia. I have barely exchanged a word with that poster and know that much.
She got locked out of the thread because she resorted to making personal attacks on people and went too far this time. I certainly didn't alert on it, because I put her on ignore so that I didn't have to see it.
Spazito
(50,454 posts)and she has NOT stated she is Australian. Please feel free to post her saying she is Australian as I must have missed it OR you are mistaken.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Read it, or don't.
There are others. Again, believe what someone posts about themselves or don't. No skin off my nose.
Spazito
(50,454 posts)Do you really think someone who is an Australian would say this:
" Maybe I've been Down Under for too long"
or would that be from someone who has moved there and has lived there for a time?
Puglover's link actually adds to the credibility of the poster he's trying to discredit, imo.
Puglover
(16,380 posts)Have voted to hide that post. I don't alert either.
It's a fine point. However she was insulting, demeaning and nasty to another DUer. I live in Ecuador. So I know what it means to be American and live abroad.
I realize she and you are simpatico. That's great. But IMHO she asked (no begged I believe) for it.
Spazito
(50,454 posts)my point was about your link assuming it stated the poster was Australian where it did not.
Puglover
(16,380 posts)Once again. She lives in AU and if her post is to be believed she benefits from AU healthcare because she is married to an Australian. Good for her.
Spazito
(50,454 posts)which was incorrect. Now you want to change it to 'lives in AU' instead.
I guess I can take that change as an 'oops, I was wrong' re the poster being Australian.
Link for posterity, just in case you need it given your error:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8277644&mesg_id=8278178
I can't even follow your er uh logic.
Nighty night.
Spazito
(50,454 posts)Nighty night, enjoy the link I provided, I know I am!
Spazito
(50,454 posts)but I do appreciate your acknowledgment of your attempt to deflect, assuming the link is about deflection. I hope you can sleep well now you understand your error.
Violet_Crumble
(35,977 posts)Living in Australia doesn't mean someone's an Australian. Americans live in Australia. Unless they have dual nationality they're not Australian. Not that there's anything wrong with being Australian despite the attempts by the OP to make out they have no right to an opinion. Even though the OP sits there and acts as though they have a right to lecture about our health care. Coz anyone who thinks we don't ever have to worry doesn't know what they're talking about. I can send them the shock medical bill I got the other week and they can take care of it
Aerows
(39,961 posts)attempting to tell you that you have no right to an opinion.
I was saying that if you have universal health care, you shouldn't be bashing folks that don't have that benefit. I have reasons for that opinion. I didn't drag it out of my ass. I don't want our Australian and Canadian brethren and sisters to go away at ALL.
What I got pissed about was people in countries with universal health care bashing on people that criticize "functions" of the ACA. You are welcome to support the US, you are welcome to support Obama. Just please don't beat up those of us that are finding the ACA to be less than stellar.
Please read my post again. It is not a criticism of the fine DUers in other countries. It is a criticism of those that repeatedly excoriate, chastise and demean people critical of the ACA (for reasons that have nothing to do with political affiliation) while having a superior health care system that they are afforded.
Violet_Crumble
(35,977 posts)Thanks for explaining
Puglover
(16,380 posts)you were fairly civil.
I do not understand why the OP's point is being so wildly misinterpreted. Well I do understand why but that is another matter.
I understand living Australia does not make one Australian. I live in Ecuador and I am not Ecuadorian. Yet.
No there is absolutely nothing wrong with either being an Australian or an American living in Australia and offering up opinions on this board. The OP has said this repeatedly in this thread. Or Canadian or any other nationality.
What the heartburn is with is posters that live under another system and are not subject to the ACA swinging around this board in thread after thread excoriating people that live with the ACA. Tossing out pejoratives and being snide rather then discussing the subject and sharing their experiences in a civil manner. And those posters are out there. And people are over it.
I don't know how to be more clear.
Violet_Crumble
(35,977 posts)Though it wasn't as fairly civil as mine
What I objected to was seeing an American who lives in Australia being treated as though she has no right to have an opinion or talk with any experience about the US health system. In that sort of case, someone like that would know far more than for example someone like me, who originally thought this ACA thing was going to be like Medicare here where everyone is covered, though Medicare certainly doesn't cover everything. Now I know it's more the equivalent of our private health insurance system, but from the looks of it, more expensive for most people. But I hope that from what's a pretty lacklustre start, eventually Americans will end up with a health care system similar to other Western countries and join the rest of us in the First World
Puglover
(16,380 posts)vastly more civil.
We have absolutely no disagreement here.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)23 is an American, no "gotcha moment" here.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)She isn't and has repeatedly mentioned she is an Australian.
Puglover brought up just one post that explains how I know this. I remember at least one or two others where she says that she is.
I realize that you wish to bolster the creds of one of your friends, and that is understandable, but you are barking up the wrong tree here.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)this is really lame....
She could also be Australian by parents but born in the U.S.....meaning "ethnically Australian" while being American by birth...
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)She lives in Australia, but she is an American.
With that, I'm walking away from this ugly witch hunt. This line of attack is petty beyond belief, so you all can just trade your self-righteous, congratulatory sneers among yourselves.
Edited to add:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8277644&mesg_id=8278178
*If you had any integrity, you would apologize for the epic ass-showing here.
Puglover
(16,380 posts)Laughing but not sneering.
Have a good night.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)what a shame that it comes down to this kind of grade 2 stuff, eh?
I am embarassed for some of these folks.
Response to Aerows (Reply #125)
Bobbie Jo This message was self-deleted by its author.
Violet_Crumble
(35,977 posts)I'm replying coz I noticed number23 can't reply anymore. She has never mentioned that she's an Australian. She's mentioned that she's currently living in Australia. Living here doesn't automatically make someone an Australian just like the Australians at DU who live in America aren't Americans. From what I understand she's an American living in Australia. If she's a permanent resident or has a relationship with an Australian citizen, she's entitled to a Medicare card. But why do you think an American who's currently living in another country has no right to talk about the US healthcare system? They've got every bit as much a right as you do.
btw, I'm Australian, and while I haven't had much to say about this ACA thing apart from asking a few questions, I'll say whatever I want to say about it and I don't care if you agree with me or not. And yr free to talk about our healthcare system and rather than telling you to not talk about it, I'll correct you on what you get wrong. And here's the first bit that you got wrong in yr OP. While our healthcare system is heads and shoulders above that of the US, it's a two tier system where quite a few things like laser surgery and MRI's aren't covered by Medicare unless yr an inpatient. So, believe me. We don't live in a nirvana where no-one ever has to worry for a second about getting health care treatment...
Puglover
(16,380 posts)up BobbieJo?
Always a pleasure. I mean that.
It is more then obvious 23 is an American. However unless things have changed she lives in AU. And married to an Aussie. I believe that would make her eligible for AU healthcare.
Which was the point no matter the efforts at deflection.
Response to Number23 (Reply #102)
Marr This message was self-deleted by its author.
Dorian Gray
(13,501 posts)really. They can react and critique as they see fit. And people from other countries can analyze our health care system. Many of those people have spent time here. They've lived our system.
While I think the ACA has much room for improvement, it's not above criticism. Nor is Obama. So, essentially I agree with your position. But restricting other people from commenting because of where they live? I don't think that's cool.
Lars39
(26,116 posts)QC
(26,371 posts)and rather than discuss French politics calmly and rationally, I spent all my time shouting at the people there demanding that they STFU right now because I have some strange celeb crush on François Hollande.
That would be seen as quintessential Ugly American behavior, and rightly so (not to mention more than a little bit weird).
Lars39
(26,116 posts)pêche à la traîne
Aerows
(39,961 posts)in this entire thread. I can list several of the usual suspects and quite a few of them aren't even from or in this country.
I do not understand it when people harass and bait people that are affected by a policy and express concerns when they don't live under those policies. It's strange.
QC
(26,371 posts)Leave him alone!!!
Aerows
(39,961 posts)What I said was essentially stop scolding people for criticizing the ACA, especially if you live in a country with universal health care. The ACA is not above criticism, and neither is Obama. Some people, who don't even vote here or live under this system go ballistic because it is somehow seen as slighting President Obama.
As an American citizen, I really don't want to be harassed because I point out the flaws of our health care system by people that have a far better one.
That's it in a nutshell.
I didn't know that 23 was not even an American Citizen of a member of the Democratic Party.
Sure seems like a lot of BOGGERS don't even live here.
Maybe they should add a disclaimer to the bottom of their posts.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Yet they go medieval on you if you so much as breathe a word of criticism directed at our government or the policies that are being advanced. Please, chime in and say what you love about the US and our President, that's great. Just don't make it a mission to harass anyone and everyone that has legitimate concerns about the government we live under, because, you know, we are the ones living here under said policies.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)Actually, it took 3 seconds.
First HIT on the site search:
Posted by Number23 in General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010)
Tue Mar 31st 2009, 07:28 PM
[font size=3]"I (currently) live in Australia ...."[/font]
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Number23/15
Marr
(20,317 posts)Is *every* obnoxious finger wagger just completely unaffected by this legislation, or what?
This explains a lot.
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)This has been very eye-opening.
Lars39
(26,116 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)It's the same crowd in the spying threads, the ACA threads and anything that is remotely critical of policy in the US.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Did the US not do what you wanted them to do in your country? Why are you allowed to blame the US for something but not complain about a policy that is a US policy?
I don't get that. I don't understand why I can't criticize anything the US government does, but you can.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)... That the ACA passed? Cause I am.
My 17 year old niece had cancer at 2. Had been excluded from coverage for most of her life. Is now covered for the kidney stones that were never covered before.
Mom's donut hole has closed.
Nephews in early 20s covered.
Which personal experiences are allowed as reasons to like the ACA, and yet want more?
Or must we all be screaming "fuck Obama"??
JI7
(89,264 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)"piece of shit car salesman"....or else I guess...
greatauntoftriplets
(175,750 posts)JI7
(89,264 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)or is this another attempt to make me feel guilty for saying something I didn't say?
I'm tired of that tactic. And that is all it is - a tactic to shut someone up because you disagree with the content of their post.
Feel free to attack what I said, but don't put words in my mouth that weren't there.
JI7
(89,264 posts)I didn't comment on those in other countries discussing US policies. I commented on people in countries with universal health care that never have to worry about health care financially ruining them or killing them because they can't afford it explaining how great the ACA is.
There is a difference. When you explain how great shoes are to a person with no feet, you are pretty much being a bone head. I know that is a nuanced analogy, but many don't seem to be able to grasp that.
JI7
(89,264 posts)That's exactly what I said in my post. I mentioned the Koch brothers repeatedly and said that no one in any other country can ever discuss US politics, ever. Yep, that is exactly what I said.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)again and again...never seeing the irony.... never understanding why it is hilarious. The reason is because you are JUST as hyperbolic as EVERY single person that has appeared in the Koch Ads.....and EVERY single one has been full of shit....NOT one could back up what they were saying about the ACA...but everyone is just supposed to take your opinion of it as fact....Nevermind that 5 million newly insured beg to differ with you and are glad for some RELIEF! Even if it is NOT as good as YOU hoped for...
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Every single one that says JUST what you are saying here...has been shown to be talking smack....EVERY.SINGLE.ONE!
Whisp
(24,096 posts)Me and all those other nasty dumb furiners.
From your own keyboard:
If you live in a country that has either single payer or you have universal health care, don't comment on the American health care system.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)no one gets to tell you that when they disagree with YOU but YOU expect THEM to STFU when YOU disagree...
Makes perfect sense
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Or they wouldn't gloat so at how badly we are getting screwed compared to their systems.
And I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)You are suggesting it's a nah nah nah, I got mine and fuck you.
I see none of that - granted I don't read every post but in all the fairly wide reading here I do do, never once Gloating.
Shameful for you to shove that into the conversation.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)You have it so much better and yet you tell us to eat our peas and furthermore that we should be thankful for them.
That is what's disgraceful.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)but I'll let you think I am so you tire yourself out.
JI7
(89,264 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)In fact, we all call each other Gloaty around here in Canader.
Response to Whisp (Reply #61)
HangOnKids This message was self-deleted by its author.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)so you have twisted it into gloating....there is NO evidence to support this claim what so ever. In fact most Americans disagree with you about the ACA!
adirondacker
(2,921 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)adirondacker
(2,921 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Some folks from other countries ARE spanking Americans for not being sufficiently grateful about the ACA. I see it. Its obvious.
Lars39
(26,116 posts)It is obvious, isn't it.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)and no amount of derision will make me see five.
Lars39
(26,116 posts)Loved that episode.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I loved it
TheKentuckian
(25,029 posts)Especially since the promise is not an easy life but rather a craw full of peas is the promised reward for saying you are "seeing it another way" than first inclined.
It is funny how some of the fiercest will have no peas to swallow while others are in the "upwardly mobile" set and also actually come out ahead under the setup than they would under universal care because it is far, far less expensive for the wealthy and upper crust. Fee for services is designed to set up just so.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)they can post offensive things about you and to you so that you blow up and get yourself locked out of your own thread. There were stringent efforts right here on this one. I didn't take the bait, though, because I know where it is all coming from.
If it involves criticizing any little thing the President does, you either get a heaping helping of derision, scoffing and mocking, or attempts to bait you so that you get a hide. Because really, they don't want to discuss these things. They just want to shut conversations down.
Why go on a discussion board if your only goal is to derail, disrupt and distract people from ... having a discussion?
LuvNewcastle
(16,856 posts)people from other countries about their internal politics.
It's one thing for people in other countries to have an opinion about our foreign policy because that affects them too, but they don't know all the ins and outs of our domestic issues. I don't care how much one might read about other countries and their way of life, it's quite a different thing to be in the middle of it and experience it first hand.
I'm not saying people in foreign countries should shut up, I just think they should always keep in mind that there is a lot that they don't know about the situation.
And one more thing, I agree that a lot of DUers stand for things they should deplore just because they think that it hurts the President for them to do otherwise. Do they have any real principles or do they just stand for whatever is the most expedient? When I see people doing that time after time, I tune out everything else they say because I've lost respect for them. I'm sure plenty of others do the same.
So to all these people who always stand with Obama and the Democratic Party, right or wrong, I'll just say that their strategy isn't working. In fact, it's having the opposite effect.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I never would have made this post if it hadn't been repeatedly shoved in my face.
gcomeau
(5,764 posts)...who has lived in the US for 13 years? (a.k.a. me)
Yeah, the US system still sucks compared to Canada. But the ACA was, undoubtedly, an improvement. Did it solve everyone's problems? No. Did it mitigate A LOT OF PEOPLE'S PROBLEMS? Yes. That simply isn't open to rational argument.
And given that there was effectively zero chance whatsoever of getting anything better through (has everyone just blocked out the memory of how much effort had to be put in to overcome Senate filibuster even for THIS????) getting all pissed at Obama for doing what could be done is stupid.
Andy823
(11,495 posts)We now have something to build on where as before the ACA we only what the insurance companies want to give us, which was high premiums, and companies that could, and would, refuse car for pre-existing conditions, raise rates every year, put limits on how much we could get from them, and in many cases people who lost everything they had because their bills were completely covered by their policy.
It's not perfect by a long way, but it's a hell of lot better than what so many had before the ACA.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Unicorns eating lucky four leaf clovers in our front yards....
The President is no magician!!!
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)suddenly on THIS issue people outside the country should STFU? How funny is that....
By the way...I am IN this country and I support the President AND the ACA...are you going to tell me to STFU now too?
JI7
(89,264 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)a Democratic forum a "piece of shit car salesman"? I find there are some right here on DU that seem to be auditioning for the next Koch bros extravaganza!
JI7
(89,264 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Cha
(297,655 posts)jtuck004
(15,882 posts)ErikJ
(6,335 posts)Last edited Wed Mar 19, 2014, 10:21 PM - Edit history (1)
Problems with ACA
--Still EMPLOYER based health care.
--Still FOR-PROFIT private sector based whose profits make the whole system mopre expensive
---Way too complex.
---Too expensive for drugs which are exempt from Obamacare regs.
NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)In any case, all I'm going to say is that despite how bad it might be up here at times (and its pretty damn sweet in comparison), the people of Canada would have a full out riot (worse than what happened over tuition increases) if the ACA was force on them--no matter how charasmatic the turd polisher was.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)And yet plenty of Canadians, Aussies and others come into threads and piss all over anyone that criticizes the ACA. Not because they know anything about it or will ever have to live under it. They are upset because "Obama". That's it.
Hell, they didn't even vote for him (I did, twice) yet want to take Americans who did to task for criticizing anything that happens under his administration.
That's inane. Anyone that wants to live under the health care system that we do, and wants to champion President Obama no matter what should seize the tiger by the tail and COME LIVE HERE and experience the glories of the ACA for themselves.
Not a damn one of them would.
treestar
(82,383 posts)you are the one pissing on others about Obama and the fact you can't stand anyone supporting him or the ACA, and it doesn't matter what country they live in now.
No, it is not about some crush on Obama, but an opinion that the ACA was the best we could get and that it's a move forward and that dissing it overmuch does not help with the soft middle of voters out there, and thus is counterproductive to moving forward to a system like Canada's.
With so many voters worried about "government health care" you are pissing on this way and expecting then the voters will react by electing people to enact a system involving even more government? that is not going to work. You think you can scold the right and the middle into giving you a Canadian system? Any Canadian or Australian is qualified to opine on what might lead to enactment of such a system and to possibly disagree that your apparent method for getting it is going to work.
Maybe you have some proof that whining produced the Canadian and Australian systems? Stomping feet and electing Tories to spite the Labor Party for not doing it fast enough? Is that how it came about?
Cha
(297,655 posts)who wouldn't have had it before. Glad you have such wonderful health care system in Canada.. too bad you're so bitter about what we have.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)because we Americans get to fucking pay for insurance? OMFG That fucking explains everything
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)It was done one province at a time....thank you very much. There is NOTHING in the ACA that prevents individual stated from creating their own Single payer system (Canadian style) one state by one state. In fact the ACA encourages them to do so....
bvar22
(39,909 posts)the first step was NOT requiring every citizen to BUY Health Insurance from For Profit Corporations,
and Subsidizing those For Profit Corporations with $100BILLION per year of taxpayer money.
THAT is not a step toward a Publicly Owned/Government Administered National Health Care Plan.
It IS a giant leap toward the Privatization of For Profit access to Health Care in America.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)and like I said...NO state is preempted FROM making their own Single Payer system......None have completed that thus far. If it was sooooo easy...Vermont would have done it already. But in the meantime we should just keep things JUST the way they were right? We shouldn't do ACA to help folks NOW...is THIS what you mean? No stop gap measures....just wait for the states to create their own Single Payer...that makes perfect sense doesn't it?
treestar
(82,383 posts)And we might then be educated on how it comes about. Instead of scolding them for having an opinion, it would seem we could learn from them, in a case where we want what they have.
I guess some Prime Minister waived it into being, as they expect Obama to.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)apparently what they really want is a Tyrant not a actual President!
LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)I think we can all agree that the ACA fell short of what we should have. But that window for working state by state to make a real change is pretty sweet. Some Republican governors have decided to make that much more difficult by blocking the changes provided in the ACA already, but I think the dominoes will fall eventually. If we decide to make a start. Vermont is way ahead of the pack on this. We have some catching up to do.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)A well polished turd is still a turd.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)there is nothing stopping them and in fact they are encouraged too....
BUT instead you propose we kept the "unpolished turd" while we wait for that to happen right?
Oh and 5 million people who FINALLY have healthcare think something stinks but its not the ACA!
pansypoo53219
(20,995 posts)YES. amerika is so fucking stupid on this allowing itself to be brainwashed. obama GOT THE !ST TOE IN THE DOOR. this is only the 1st step. social secuirty took many years to get where it is. NO, it is NOT PERFECT. but shit. THIS IS AMERIKA. SOMETHING ACTUALLY ADVANCED. inch by inch, step by step. HELP IT GET BETTER.
Andy823
(11,495 posts)Is it perfect? NO
Does it need fixing in areas? YES
Is it better that what we had before? HELL YES!
If you are not happy may I suggest you write your members of congress, and that you do all you can to get rid of the brain dead republican tea party clowns that would let millions DIE every year so insurance companies can make huge profits, and who will do all they can to make that happen if they get in office!
What we have now is something that we can build on, and that's what we need to do, keep on building on what we have till we get a universal system.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)gulliver
(13,195 posts)It's completely silly.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)One has to be creative to keep the divisiveness alive.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Spazito
(50,454 posts)so I do KNOW what it is like to not be able to go to the doctor because my parents couldn't afford it, couldn't have needed surgery until I was eleven because my parents couldn't afford it. You seem to think universal healthcare was born at the same time Canada became Canada, that Canadians didn't have to deal with insurance companies whose policies were out of reach for many financially.
Universal healthcare didn't come into being until 1967 and protection from being 'extra-billed' didn't come into being until 1977. It was done incrementally and NOT all at once.
It seems to me your anger is more about DUers living in other countries supporting Obama than their comments about ACA. I would trade you our Prime Minister for your President in a heartbeat so I guess I should now STFU but, nope, not going to do that.
ACA isn't universal healthcare but neither was ours in the beginning, it took more than 20 years to get where we are today, I only hope you don't have to wait over 20 years from now. I am now going to break your dictate and give my foreign opinion on ACA, it's not great but it beats NO insurance, it beats being denied coverage because of pre-existing conditions.
Response to Spazito (Reply #103)
Post removed
Spazito
(50,454 posts)I did consider letting this nonsense OP pass me by but, damn, it was full of misinformation, hypocrisy and vitriol, I decided to at least add some facts to counter some of it, probably to no avail, lol.
Number23
(24,544 posts)as he should have been. Now, some are burning calories acting as though the thoughts/opinions of non-Americans don't mean anything.
I want to hear from MORE people, not less. Hell, the fact that DU is so insulated is one of the reasons the quality of discourse has become so miserable. Instead of telling non-Americans to shut up, I wish there was MORE diversity here, not less unlike some. This place could benefit tremendously from having less loud shrill fringers and more people from all walks of life in all countries.
I remember we had a couple of posters that said they were from Africa. Haven't seen hide nor hair of them in years, not that I blame them. Many Hispanic, Asian and black AMERICANS no longer post here. And some apparently want the bubble even tighter.
Spazito
(50,454 posts)Having been a member for more than 11 years, I am saddened to see how it has gone from a place where one could be sure to find facts, lively debate and and one supportive of electing Democrats and working against Republicans to a place where all too many threads are vitriolic diatribes against a Democratic President while saying nary a word against the Republicans who are the ones more to blame for what remains undone.
JustAnotherGen
(31,886 posts)arthritisR_US
(7,292 posts)Like yourself, I would trade Harper in a heartbeat for Obama! People are often ignorant of the evolution of our health care system so thanks for the reminder
Spazito
(50,454 posts)The evolution of our system is not unlike what is happening now in the U.S. and I think it's important to have that known. The Insurance companies here tried to stop it's evolution as did the Conservatives, the fight was vicious and long. Tommy Douglas isn't our greatest hero for no reason, that's for sure!
arthritisR_US
(7,292 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)Some people just can't accept that the system we have in Canada can't happen in 4 or 8 years. As you said, it was a long and brutal struggle with interference from doctors and paid stooges in the industry that profited greatly from human misery, very much like we hear from the idiot repugs against Obamacare. Same greedy shits with the same greedy stories looking out for themselves and not caring about the health of the population.
It's truly disturbing that a portion of this generation is so used to 'take out', something fast and cheap. I want it Now because I Said so. And they have their assasination daggers out toward someone's back who is truly trying to make the important first steps toward single payer.
Madness!
and sadness.
Spazito
(50,454 posts)most pivotal change, regardless of country, happens over time, in increments and healthcare is a good example of that, both in Canada and the U.S.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)It seems to me your anger is more about DUers living in other countries supporting Obama than their comments about ACA. I would trade you our Prime Minister for your President in a heartbeat so I guess I should now STFU but, nope, not going to do that
Its swinging in the wind.....
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)so I recc'd
idendoit
(505 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)I was in my 20's.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)But I am by birth, and I've never lived anywhere else so potentially maybe just listen to your fellow Americans?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I stated that you didn't live in the US?
Thanks.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)I suspect they aren't a US citizen. No one that isn't a US citizen would understand the bullshit and financial pressure even minor shit costs here. They can go to the doctor for anything. We can't even go to the doctor if we are about to drop dead without it costing a fucking fortune.
I'll elect to die first.
They wonder why we are such a militant bloodthirsty nation? It's because if we get even slightly ill or injured we are destroyed financially.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I said I "suspected". I didn't say I knew.
You can condemn me if you like, but the point remains that our health care system sucks and those that don't deal with it don't have the right to point fingers and tongue-lash those that do for being critical of it.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)I'd love to see single payer happen tomorrow trust me.
And again I'm frustrated by the bill you are forced to pay, and sorry this has happened to you.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I appreciate you saying that.
demwing
(16,916 posts)any damned thing they want to say?
I'd rather have a system where a few stupid (IMO) ideas get listened to by a few serious people, than a system where a few serious people reserve right of approval over all of our ideas.
But the people that actually LIVE under the system should be allowed to discuss it without being scolded by people that have never lived under that system.
That's the whole point of the post. I got fed up with people who will never use the ACA telling everyone how spiffy it is. Like they know. Like it affects them. It doesn't.
You have to have a lot of gall to tell people that are faced with very difficult health care decisions that you will never face that their opinion is a pile of crap. That was my entire point.
treestar
(82,383 posts)And it could be helpful, as they have enacted that system. As stated above, it was gradual in Canada.
We all have to hear opposing views even if we have personal problems. They don't have problems with medical bills, does that mean they have to disapprove of the ACA just because? They don't have to agree with you.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)Think about it. It's a very small handful of people doing that. The vast majority of people who are in other countries that post here are being supportive of our plight.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I appreciate the post.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)Motives always come out and become clear.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)I think it is exceptionally smug for someone with universal healthcare to tell someone without it that they should be thankful. Reminds me of the 1% telling poor people they should be thankful that they aren't poor in a third world country because in North America they are rich in comparison.
I also didn't take your post as a 'Foreigners can't post anything about America!' post. TBH, I never understood why some Canadians are such Obama fans here on DU. I mean, I can see liking the guy but it's weird to see so many people so invested in him when they don't even live in the US and aren't citizens. I have no issues with commenting on American policies though, and I don't think I need to butt out. I also don't see a problem with someone commenting on the ACA...but I do get what you mean about 'lecturing'. I've seen that here too...I may have even been sanctimonious a time or 2 about other topics, but I don't understand why one must put down those who are struggling. I get that from my rich mother all the time...I'm a single mom of 4, in school full time, and I get to hear her talk about how hard she worked, how lazy I am and how I should be thankful that I'm not homeless because my ex pays me child support. She refuses to help me out in any meaningful way, because I might 'take it for granted'. This pontificating about the ACA reminds me of how my mother treats me.
Okay, I'm beginning to ramble, but just wanted to let you know that some Canadians get what you are saying. I think you guys deserve much, much better than the ACA.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I didn't mean that you guys shouldn't comment, it's just the smug, excoriating tone that is a problem when people in the US express concerns with our healthcare system.
It's very frustrating to see someone that has the advantage of a superior health care system put other posters down because they dare to criticize it. I'd be griping about it no matter who was president, and I have every right to do so. Electing President Obama didn't automatically make every concern I've ever had about the way the US is run go away, and it's ridiculous when people get offended on his behalf because someone brings up a problem.
Puglover
(16,380 posts)Nice to have an adult in the room. Sorry about your Mom. Those relationships are often complicated.
LostOne4Ever
(9,290 posts)If you disagree with me shut up. If you agree with me carry on.
Im seeing no attempt to squalsh discussion here. Nope none at all.
BTW:
Born, raised, and live in the USA.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)and most everyone knows it. Read my post again. Supporting President Obama and the US is fantastic. We all appreciate it. The Democratic party appreciates it, I'm sure.
The problem comes when saying that a policy sucks and people that don't even live under that policy jump in and lecture the poster or worse, belittle them.
I love my country. I also have issues with things my government does. I will speak up about them regardless of who is President. I will speak up about them even if it looks unkindly on Democrats, Republicans or anybody of any political stripe.
What I'm not going to do is go onto a forum in Canada and bash Canadians or go to a forum in Australia and bash Australians for criticizing a government policy. What is the point of doing that?
Share your opinions, sure. Just don't relentlessly hound people sharing THEIR opinions of the government they live under because they have justified criticisms of those policies.
LostOne4Ever
(9,290 posts)It does not matter ones nationality, politics, religion, or anything.
And just because someone does not live under said policy does not mean that they don't have family or friends who do, and that they too may have a vested interest in seeing the policy succeed or fail.
While they may not live under the policy themselves does not mean they might not have something meaninful to add to the discussion. Ultimately, the more information we can get, confirm, and analyze the better the conclusion we can make.
I have never lived in or around Germany, but If I saw someone making sexist and disparaging remarks about their Prime minister that I knew were not true (though I know next to nothing about her) I would speak up. Wouldn't you?
This is doubly true for someone who I feel is helping people.
If this was solely about civility, then I apologize and agree. We should all treat each other as we would want to be treated. But again, no reason to limit that to foreigners, it holds true for everyone. For those born here and abroad, for those who agree and disagree.
That said, and again I apologize if this was SOLELY about civility, the way you focus in on those who criticizing others for criticizing the president really makes it look like you are trying to silence only one specific group while allowing others who agree with you to have a free pass.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)whatsoever. It is about people that can't find it within themselves to be civil because of some misguided idea that criticizing a political policy is automatically criticism of a politician and taken as personal criticism. I'm sure you have seen the posts directed at me already in this thread. Personal attacks.
I gave up, though. I just put those folks on ignore, and I am not worried about it anymore. I hate doing that, but in the end, for my own sanity, I had to do so.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)and now very busy buying up your government, your Media, and your political parties.
You may have already noticed the increasing calls for austerity, balanced budgets, cutting government spending, lowering taxes (on the RICH). While you are laughing at us, you ARE losing your own countries.
YOU risk waking up one morning to find that your Party is implementing a "Market Based Solution"
to solve your "out of control Health Care Costs".
You had better get active and protect what you have,
because if you don't start riding the backs of your "representatives",
watching them like hawks,
and hitting the streets every time they step out of line
you will soon have your very own version the ObamaCare Market Based "Solution"
that transfers your Middle Class Wealth to your RICH Corporate Owners.
Then, you can come here and tell us how wonderful it is,
and actually know what you are talking about.
Seriously, they are BUYING your government and your Political Party as we speak.
Right Now.
And the plan for YOU is the same as the plan for US.
It will happen fast, and come from people you "trust".
It may already be too late to stop it.
It CAN and WILL happen to YOU too.
...and THIS is the attitude and political strategy that will help it happen:
"I don't think Obama is going to cut Social Security.
I can't be sure, but either way he's got my vote.
The other guys really suck.
Who's with me?"
If you don't STAND for something,
you will FALL for anything.
[font color=firebrick][center]"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone [/font][/center] [center] [/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]
mattclearing
(10,091 posts)The ACA is a major improvement. The pre-existing condition assurance alone is a major improvement.
I remember what it was like living in the American non-health care system.
I wouldn't try to tell you that the ACA is great. It lowers premiums for some at the expense of higher premiums for others, and it's not anywhere near as good as our single-payer system here.
That said, you don't get to tell me what I can talk about. I'm an American citizen and have been on DU for nearly ten years. I'll say what I want about the American non-health care system and anything else I want. If you don't like it, I'm cool with that.
Lars39
(26,116 posts)And I sincerely thank you for that.
mattclearing
(10,091 posts)Thanks for noticing.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)That was never the point. The point is that those who aren't affected in the slightest by US policies don't have the right to harass, scold, belittle and mock those who ARE.
That's pretty damn simple. The biggest offenders aren't people that are affected by those policies.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)Can't you see how ridiculous this sounds?
I was hoping you would delete this mess...
Lars39
(26,116 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)Insulting, maybe.
Lars39
(26,116 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)Lars39
(26,116 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)It is because at some point, hypocrisy needs to be pointed out. If you live in a country with universal health care, but then turn right around and bash, mock and belittle people who are struggling under the US health care system for complaining, you are using a double standard. What is okay for thee, is not okay for me, and I shouldn't gripe.
I live under US policy, for God's sake, and I will criticize it when it is necessary. Full stop. I participate as a voter. I pay taxes here.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)as individuals?
I mock the people that complain endlessly about what a fucking bastard Obama is and how he should do this and not do that and he shoulda woulda coulda if he wasn't a lazy wall street ass kissing assasinnator of the elderly and weak. And those that can't figure out how to take care of their own responsibilities instead just barf out that Obama is a piece of shit used car salesman. Yeh, there's lots of deserved mocking for that type - the Koch Bros. commercial type.
But whatever dude, I'm done. I don't know why and what you are up to, but I'm done with it.
Lars39
(26,116 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)That wasn't condescending in the slightest, was it?
polly7
(20,582 posts)I can't imagine the reaction an American or any non-Canadian would be on a Canadian site telling us we needed to privatize our health-care system to make a bunch of insurers in the middle rich, or praising Harper if he'd let it happen. I would FREAK the * out, as I'm sure any other Canadian would. Your OP doesn't come across at all as telling anyone to shut up .. more of an appeal to empathize a bit and show some understanding - much more polite than if the shoe were on the other foot, believe me.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)a plea for understanding. The rancor I've gotten from people in this thread stuns me.
I can't believe it.
mattclearing
(10,091 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)is pointing out hypocrisy. Everyone can get shoved over the breaking point. I got shoved over it when people with universal health care in their country repeatedly told people what they couldn't say. We couldn't say we weren't happy with the ACA. We couldn't say anything negative about US policy because it might affect Obama.
That door very much swings both ways. The only reason I voiced this complaint is because far too many of us have been told what WE cannot say without harassment, ridicule and mockery.
Democracyinkind
(4,015 posts)... I totally get where you are coming from. Most of the personal stories that I encounter on DU are simply incomprehensible to me. So I really understand the fury and anger, even if I find some of it wildly misdirected.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)when a raccoon bit me.
That isn't rational, reasonable or anywhere near feasible. It bit me because someone was feeding it, and I admit that I did, too initially, but then an entire pack of them got aggressive. I was reading on my laptop outside and it bit the hell out of my hand.
I guess you can blame me, but I don't know why $18,000 is suitable for about an hour in the ER I *WALKED* into and *WALKED* out of, and then got shots that took up about 5 minutes of time a piece.
It was a damn accident. I admit my culpability in it initially for thinking they were cute. When they got extremely aggressive, I didn't want anything to do with them.
I made a mistake. I'll be the first one to admit it, but it hurts when people continuously ridicule me about it, and now it's an $18,000 that I have no idea how I'm going to pay.
Democracyinkind
(4,015 posts)I have never seen a "medical bill" in my life except for when I pay my dental hygienist, if you disregard the few times that I had minor issues while living in the US. The concept of paying a doctor or hospital is completely foreign to me.
And the fact that some callous asshole ridiculed your situation in this very thread... There's some really fucking lousy people on DU.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)because I criticized our health care system.
I know, I don't know how they arrived at that leap of logic either, except that maybe I'm not supposed to say anything about the US government and the politics in the US because we have a black President. Oh, and that person doesn't even reside in the US.
Such is life.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)Lars39
(26,116 posts)myrna minx
(22,772 posts)This is rather nasty.
Lars39
(26,116 posts)myrna minx
(22,772 posts)for being bitten by a raccoon and to be ridiculed for not only what happened to you, but for the fact you're not grateful enough to not be covered? Yes, from a previous thread, the OP has said she's on the hook for $18,000 in bills to cover an animal bite. Is that ok? Would that happen where you live? Would you trade places?
Mocking and ridiculing people who are hurting because of the crazy healthcare costs in this country is just cruel, especially if one doesn't have to face the same crippling costs and to imply she's a teabagging racist from the photo you posted is just horrible. This isn't the DU I signed onto in 2002
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Thank you for speaking up. I've been ridiculed every damn time I talk about the 18,000 hospital bill and have gotten everything from the implication that I'm a piece of shit to I should have just died.
I try to stay out of it, but it is painful when people you think you know on a forum, a community you are part of, go out of their way to harass you.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)It was you with this OP that is harassing people. According to you I can't have an opinion on topics you decide I can't have one on because I'm not Murkin born. That is, unless I berate the President and the ACA well enough to your liking, then I am sure I would be 'allowed'.
I never said anything negative about your plight or your bill and I never harassed you about your medical problems but I am not going to just walk backwards out of the room with a whimper when you pound at me, for being Canadian, for fucks sake. I said more than once how sorry I was for what you are going through and now you are going to switch it 180 degress and make it sound like I am making sport of your suffering. What the Fuck?
Oh, and one more thing. Number23 is really an American, living in Australia. But you accused her of lying about that. How freaking creepy is That? Look back on this thread and you will see your fine work in full display.
Good lord!
P.S. Don't PM me anymore or I will copy/paste them for all to see.
Lars39
(26,116 posts)But how you act....how you treat people. Being obnoxious to people every day here is just not acceptable.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)Where have you been reading?
Lars39
(26,116 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)and imply that I dislike "the Kenyan President" you have no need to worry about me ever PM'ing you again.
That is a disgusting personal attack that you should be ashamed of.
It says a whole lot more about you that you post that than it does about me, and the fact that I have tried to reach out to you and was greeted with such an insult. Believe what you want Whisp.
That was an ugly personal attack on my character, and I have never been anything but nice and friendly to you.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)it was to do with xenophobia - which you express here quite heftily - and not racism but whatever. shoot me.
bye.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)That is categorically below you.
Bernie2016
(28 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)Look at the insults hurled, the mockery and the derision levied against anyone that dares speak a word against the ACA. Look at the actions of people in threads that aren't US citizens, chastising them for speaking out about a policy they don't like.
Then see some of those very folks complain when I say they shouldn't speak of it; When they themselves are doing the loudest hollering that we shut up. It's a disgrace in this community. I care for all of the people on DU, but I certainly don't agree with the actions of a few recently.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4699556
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Accusing a poster of being racist because they disagree with US government policy. Should people stop talking about policy altogether if it falls on the side of disagreeing with the President?
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Mar 20, 2014, 10:54 PM, and the Jury voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Had to read through a lot of crap to get to this point. This is over the top... point could have been made without resorting to losing your mind.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Childish taunt. Intended to shit stir.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Poster is responding to the OP's xenophobia. Nope won't hide.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I'm guessing he's responding to someone who clearly HATES President Obama.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: We are better than this. Disagreement is a GOOD thing. Stop trying to stifle it with false accusations.
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)or a birth certificate searcher.
Everyone on this site that has ever encountered me, including Whisp, knows that is bullshit.
I do take exception to rumors of my belonging to a faction that can't spell, though.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)throwing out the baby with the bathwater has been particularly brilliant, particularly when the odds of anyone else doing any better than the one in power are nil.
Which brings me to this: We can want to whine all we wish (as if it were going to do a damned bit of good, which it doesn't - all it does is help the Repukes) that's the problem of whoever wishes to whine, but the whining itself, if it aids the enemy, and sounds quite like that of the enemy, you can betcha it's not going to help one iota.
When all is said and done, it is right wingers and right wing propaganda that has brought this country to its knees. It is the cause of this country's suffering. A majority of this country agreed with their propaganda for too many decades, and still a huge percentage of them agrees with their propaganda.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)But I'll be standing right beside you on the left.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)has done before, is merely a path of destruction.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I'm probably to the left of you, but it doesn't matter. I'll stand shoulder to shoulder with anyone that is on the left and wants to improve our nation.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)with you. I'm far from perfect. I merely wholeheartedly detest injustice.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)we have to have a set of successful tactics. Crushing the only resistance (even if it's a piss-poor resistance), only opens the door WIDE to Republicans, and instead of being helpful, that's simply helping the enemy. I'd like solutions that work, and solutions that work attack the evil at its most evil source - the #1 most fabulous lackeys, Repukes. Do that, and everything else will fall into line.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I like President Obama, but he isn't a panacea for every fouled up system in our government. You are absolutely welcome to praise him, critique him, and I'm sure he can handle both.
When you start bashing the people that live under US policies because they expressly criticize those policies ... That is a different ball of wax.
Mocking, making fun of people and generally being condescending because someone lives under a different health care system than you do (and one you don't understand) while bashing them because you support President Obama doesn't do you or President Obama any favors. I'm pretty sure that if President Obama had the choice of people that support him, or the people that deride, degrade, mock and make fun of people that have valid criticisms about his administration, I think he would pick the former.
If you believe in Obama whatsoever, you wouldn't be in this thread accusing long term DU'ers of being racists, teabaggers and birthers just because they disagree with a certain policy the President has put into place. You wouldn't harass and make fun of good Democratic Party members that always show up at the voting booth and continually tell them they are out-dated and unrealistic.
LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)I really am flabbergasted by the medical bill you've been saddled with. I don't have personal experience with negotiating bills down. Maybe someone here does.
I did find this about.com article. Maybe it will point to a way to start. Please refresh my memory. Why did your insurance deny coverage?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I'll have to dig the denial letter up again. It's ridiculous that you pay for health insurance, but then when you need actual health CARE you get denied.
That is what pisses me off so badly.
LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)I know how frustrating this is. (spitting nails frustrating) I have had experience with getting insurance companies to cover previously denied medical bills. It is possible to do. Don't give up too soon, okay?
And I forgot to include the link I was talking about in my first post.
http://frugalliving.about.com/od/beautyhealthcare/a/How-To-Negotiate-Your-Medical-Bills.htm
Puglover
(16,380 posts)Rabies Vaccination???????
You get it. You die. Period. Unbelievable.
I got bit by a stray dog (my fault) in Ecuador. I had to go through them a year ago. Never saw a bill.