General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsJust so I understand what you people are saying, the Obama Administration engineered a Neo-Nazi coup
in Ukraine? Actually PUT Neo-Nazis into control of the Ukrainian governmental apparatus.
And if not the Obama Administration, "The West", or Neo-Cons.... or something, but definitely US Government.
Is THAT what you people are saying? Really?
JI7
(89,264 posts)they need something to distract from what we did in Ukraine
rdharma
(6,057 posts)Have you stopped beating your wife?
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)precise statement of the thesis advanced by many real DUers.
Yes... that the new Ukrainian government is Nazis.
Yes... that the "coup" was orchestrated by neo-cons in the current executive branch with either Obama's direction or tacit consent.
Yes to all of it.
It's real and has been quite a disgusting spectacle.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)Just to pin it down and get them on the record.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)rdharma
(6,057 posts)Because he employs them all the time.
LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)Shows what I know.
JVS
(61,935 posts)positions of power in central Asia. That kind of thing could never happen.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)JVS
(61,935 posts)happened? Are you some kind of conspiracy theorist?
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)and No, I'm not a CT.
I do NOT believe that the Obama Administration put neo-Nazis in charge of Ukraine, for the record. But I've read posts on DU that strongly indicate the contrary and am trying to get such people to explicitly state as much.
JVS
(61,935 posts)Shame on you for even trying to encourage such ridiculous accusations. You make the entire community look awful with your provocation and your posting privileges should be revoked for your irresponsible accusations against the government.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)That doesn't mean it did so in this case
And
Please, alert on me. PLEASE< PRETTY PLEASE!!!!!!!
Your inability to discern who is actually making the charges is charming.
JVS
(61,935 posts)lads at the various intelligence agency alphabet soup institutions?
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)Good... we're getting somewhere.
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)I have no idea what all that is about!
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)That's all it took. Ukrainians are officially the most weak-minded children on earth, I guess.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Turning the protestors into robot zombies?
JVS
(61,935 posts)okaawhatever
(9,462 posts)long term DUers. Clearly they don't advocate the Democratic party platform. Many are socialist or communist and are very supportive of Russia, Venezuela, Cuba and other current/former communist countries.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Goddamn...
Rex
(65,616 posts)Zorra
(27,670 posts)Marr
(20,317 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Best of luck in November without the commies, socialists, Chavistas, Leninists, Marxists, pony-didn't-getters, and Sandersistas!
Marr
(20,317 posts)Do they really think those kinds of remarks pass for left of center, or are they just trying to claim the party as an openly right-wing entity?
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)1. The US government is so massive entire departments can operate outside of Obama's sight to such a degree that they can topple entire governments.
2. Shadow government! Obama is just a figurehead.
Cha
(297,655 posts)were stupidly doing shit like that then it must be true..
Adam051188
(711 posts)killbotfactory
(13,566 posts)And pretty much every significant President since the revolution.
But that's all water under the bridge.
Why Syzygy
(18,928 posts)whether or not the Neo-Nazis were part of the agenda or if they just took advantage of the unrest. But fomenting the coup, yes, the West had a hand in that. Remember, the CIA and Blackwater/whatever they call themselves these days are available to hire, and they are not technically part of the 'government'. There is much evidence to support this view. Additionally, there is testimony from the ground there that this is how it played.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)At least some of you people are willing to put your theories on the table for explicit examination.
Why Syzygy
(18,928 posts)if you need a different label. They are the ones who senselessly bombed Libya, ignoring the UN resolution. Whether or not Americans recognized that for what it was, the rest of the world took notice.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)For reals?
SolutionisSolidarity
(606 posts)coordinating a regime change campaign. That's what the leaked audio of Nuland proved. She demanded that her man Yats was placed in charge of the government following the ouster of their president - and funny enough, that's just what happened. This call took place before the sniper attacks that were the event that "proved" the former president was unfit to govern, by the way.
Whether Obama was aware of such maneuvering or not is an open question. I personally think he wasn't, as this crisis just killed the peace process he's been trying to start, and boosted the Republicans in the process. Obama didn't clean house when he came into office, so it's entirely possible that Bush hangovers are causing trouble without his permission. But he did put Clinton in at SOS, and she's a hawk too. Perhaps the peace process stuff is just sop for the yokels who don't understand how important militarism is to the economy. It's hard to tell in this age whether one is too cynical or not cynical enough.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)The Blackwater connection?
Why Syzygy
(18,928 posts)kwassa
(23,340 posts)Adam051188
(711 posts)not sure though....
kwassa
(23,340 posts)killbotfactory
(13,566 posts)I doubt our very important politicians cared that they were standing shoulder to shoulder with neo nazi's, considering most people in the US aren't familiar with the various political factions in Ukraine.
They were trying to flip Ukraine into the western sphere of influence, and accepted what was essentially an unconstitutional transition of power as if it was legitimate and fair, because the losers were the pro-russian faction. I guess they thought Putin would just grin and bare it.
Everything about this is shady. Welcome to global politics.
TheKentuckian
(25,029 posts)Junkdrawer
(27,993 posts)The Deep State's MO is to create these events and then help force elected officials' hands via media coordination.
I think Obama has been resisting reacting to such "events" as best he can so far.....
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,198 posts)So Yanukovych gets democratically elected in 2010, and in the next four years he does nothing that would warrant mass protests from the Ukrainian people. Because corruption happens everywhere, so just deal with it, okay?
Then a bunch of neo-nazi ultra-nationalists go into Kiev and throw rocks and sticks and bottles and shit, probably because the US or EU or somebody paid them to do so. Because if you want to enact regime change to get your guy into power, paying lots and lots of people money to protest is the most efficient and effective way to do so.
Then the all-powerful failed US Presidential candidate and chronic mumbler John McCain comes in on McCain Force One and stands on a stage, looking slightly constipated. And Victoria Nuland passes out sandwiches, or maybe donuts (pampushky as they are known locally).
Then the neo-Nazi ultra-nationalists go back to throwing rocks and sticks and bottles and shit.
Then some of the neo-Nazi ultranationalists get shot by snipers, but really, they were probably just shooting themselves, so whateves.
Then someone waves a magic wand, God comes out of the machine, and Yanukoyvch is no longer the Ukrainian president and Svoboda is now in charge. Pretty much permanently, because it's not like they've scheduled elections in the upcoming months.
And clearly it's Svoboda who the US/UK/EU/CIA/IMF/NATO wants in charge, because when you think people who outside foreign powers think are the easiest to have their bidding done on their behalf, it's domestic ultranationalists.
Oh, and did I mention that it's the ultranationalist neo-nazis who are now in charge of Ukraine, and not an interim government lead by moderate centrists? Because that's what it is.
Oh, and Russia invades Crimea with its very special force of Not Russian Russian Troops, but that's okay. Not that we like Putin or anything, but back in the day Russia controlled Crimea for its very special Russification/Expelling the Tatars project, so really it's not like it's foreign soil for them. Plus, Ukraine outlawed the speaking of Russian in Ukraine, so there's that, too.
Plus we as Americans are morally prohibited from criticizing Russia's actions because our last idiot of a President also invaded a foreign country on pretextual purposes. And once that is done, there is no way for us to reflect on our past errors and take a different approach from that point forward.
Obviously. Duh.