Matters related to Ukraine have nothing to do with either democracy

[malaise]

or the people of the Ukraine. This is about one thing - the same thing they kill for non-stop - OfuggingIL.

[DetlefK]

1. Off course. "They". Now everything is clear.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

2. Um. No.

The Russians have their own oil as does the West.

[cr8tvlde]

3. Glad we're above that slimy approach...killing other folks for their mineral rights/oil/natural gas.

(sarcasm, just in case)

[jeff47]

4. What oil?

Ukraine doesn't have oil. That's why Russia could blackmail them into turning away from the EU before this whole mess started.

[magical thyme]

5. what you call blackmail some people call offering them a much better deal.

The EU offered them austerity and via the IMF, a small amount of money, in order to destroy them in the same way they've destroyed Greece and other countries, in order to control them.

Russia offered them reduced costs of heating oil and far more money, in order to control them.

[jeff47]

7. So Ukrainians are morons then?

The EU deal was much more popular - that's why the old government had to quickly give a ton of concessions to the opposition to try and stay in power. It worked for a while, until the old government started cracking down. At which point the press showed up.

[magical thyme]

8. our propaganda says the EU deal was more popular. Russian propaganda says theirs was.

and DU's resident in Kiev says from their perspective, Russia's deal is more popular.

[jeff47]

9. And yet, history still exists despite what people say.

The old government turned away from the EU deal, and towards the Russian deal.

The old government suddenly handed over a ton of concessions to the opposition after doing so.

Those happened regardless of what people say. There's no reason for the old government to have handed over those concessions unless the EU deal was actually popular.

[NuclearDem]

6. If Ukraine had any substantial amount of oil or natural gas

this whole situation probably wouldn't have erupted. The whole thing was about a trade deal with Russia for its natural gas.