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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums“There will be another attack”: Rand Paul ally takes heat over Snowden at CPAC
"All the NSA has to do is watch all the calls made from CPAC, and the IRS would have their audit schedules"JOSH EIDELSON
An ex-governor and an attorney behind Rand Pauls NSA lawsuit clashed passionately and sometimes personally on a CPAC main stage panel devoted to privacy and national security.
Edward Snowden is a traitor and a coward who chose to flee in order to make common cause with a Stalinist thug, and substantially weakened this country against the direct enemies of this country, charged former congressman and Virginia Gov. Jim Gilmore.
In a democracy, the people have the right to know what their government is doing, because we get to decide what their policy is going to be, countered Reagan administration attorney Bruce Fein, who helped draft Pauls lawsuit. Fein argued that Snowdens courage had put U.S. senators who have greater constitutional protections to disclose information to shame. He accused Gilmore of ignoring the more rampant lawlessness of the U.S. government.
Both Gilmore and Fein drew cheers from the ballrooms crowd, though Feins stance appeared to have more supporters. Asked by moderator John Solomon of the Washington Times whether they believed the programs revealed by Edward Snowden were making them safer, only about a dozen raised their hands prompting Solomon to ask Fein whether he needed Dick Cheney to come back and set the crowd straight. Gilmores claim that I understand better than anybody what the Fourth Amendment really means drew a loud, You lie! from at least one attendee.
Gilmore repeatedly referenced his experience serving as Virginias governor during the 9/11 attacks, and warned the crowd, I have to tell you that there will be another attack on the United States. There simply will be.
more
http://www.salon.com/2014/03/07/%E2%80%9Cthere_will_be_another_attack%E2%80%9D_rand_paul_ally_takes_heat_over_snowden_at_cpac/
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Is a testament to the libertarian/conservative divide within the gop on a traditionally republican article of faith ... national security. Prior to the "paul revolution" in 2008, there wouldn't have even been this discussion. But libertarians have worked hard to gain a seat at the gop table.
And since 2010, they have been pushing for a seat at the Democratic table, as well ... and I suspect there will be similar results.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)burrowing into both parties.
They have effective changed the framing from Democrat versus Republican to liberal/progressive versus conservative. (Review this site and watch the timing of the shift in self-identified political descriptors ... look a at the shift in stated deal-breaking political priorities.)
I suspect, by 2020, they will have siphoned off enough followers to mount a legitimate 3rd political party.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Democrats, liberals and progressives not getting sucked in?
I can honestly understand frustrations causing us to seek; but the libertarian fantasy is not the place to go.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)I said I think it will happen if we don't get our domestic house in order, and soon.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)will make liberals, Democrats and progressives less so? Isn't it just as likely that Democrats, liberals and progressives could temper some of the non-reality based ideas that Libertarians have? I'm not by any means leaping to become a Libertarian because they have a lot of really dumb ideas. I'm just wondering how everyone is convinced that liberals and progressives would swallow the "let everybody starve" and "we don't need to pay for a fire department" lines.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Rarely do joiners change the larger group, but over time. It's taken the libertarians 10+ years to gain sway in the gop which they have more in common with.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)think liberals, progressives and Democrats will get on board with "let everybody starve", "we don't need to pay for roads and fire fighters" and "we don't need environmental or financial regulations"?
So noted. I don't believe that for a second.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I thought I said joiners have very little influence in the established groups agenda, initially.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)started a rethink on that issue.
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)"In a democracy, the people have the right to know what their government is doing, because we get to decide what their policy is going to be, countered Reagan administration attorney Bruce Fein..."
is hilarious.