Got Money? You are a Capitalist

[RobertEarl]

Last edited Sat Mar 8, 2014, 09:17 AM - Edit history (1)

Capital means: Money. Look. It. Up.

So if you have capital you are being capitalist.

You are participating in the financial system called capitalism.

Hey, it's not a sin, so don't get your knickers in a twist. It's just the way it is the the US and 90% of the world. In that other 10% they have no money = no capital. They are not capitalist because they have no capital. You have capital? You are a capitalist.

See, wasn't that easy?

Our problem is: How do we control the capitalists who take advantage of the capitalist system.

Well, I've been locked out of my thread because I was rude. 50% of the replies here were just plain rude, and I get juried. Way to go DU.

[reformist2]

1. That's just stupid.

[PowerToThePeople]

2. Not by choice, by need of survival within the current system... eom

[RobertEarl]

7. Right. We have no choice

We were born into it. The country's economic system is based on capitalism.

[PowerToThePeople]

11. When I was a child

We played dodge ball in PE. Some kids played nicely and even would try to help others that were not as good as them. Some would keep hitting the slower kids over and over and over, to the point of tears. In our current system, the bully wins the game and is held up as an example for all of us to admire. The "play it nice" kids lose.

[Fumesucker]

3. Not quite, a capitalist is someone who makes money by having money

If you make money by selling your labor to someone else then you are not a capitalist.

[RobertEarl]

9. If you trade labor for capital

And then you trade someone else for their labor using that capital, what does that make you?

A Capitalist.

The richest capitalists are those who make capital from capital. Then when it is taxed it is called a capital gain tax.

[FrodosPet]

18. Do you have to be rich to be a capitalist?

What really is a capitalist?

Is it an individual who has an ownership interest, based on monetary investment, in one or more profit-seeking enterprises? And that these enterprises might be microscopic, only earning dozens or hundreds of dollars a year, or they might be enormous - complex global entities worth hundreds of billions of dollars?

Like it or not, some people may be capitalists, and not even realize it. If you are in a pension, most likely that pension participates in some type of commercial investment. Your pension, and ultimately YOU, are making money from someone else's labor. Are you a participant in your company's ESOP? Boom - your money is, at least theoretically, making you money.

As we see, there are big capitalists and little capitalists, and a whole hell of a lot more of them than some people would like to believe.

[Adrahil]

59. If you have a 401K, you're very likely a capitalist. NT

[LeftyMom]

4. Moronic word redefinition is usually a bad starting place for an argument.

Let's just say you're not exactly bucking that particular trend.

[LisaLynne]

34. But sometimes it's the only way someone can make an argument. nt

[MFrohike]

5. I'm confused

Is this lazy sarcasm?

[Marr]

6. Got a pencil? You're a writer.

Except, you're not. Because that's not what "writer" really means.

[LisaLynne]

35. ...

[zappaman]

8. You got your ass handed to you in an earlier thread you started

Which showed you had no idea what you were talking about, so you start another?
Too funny!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024619059

[hobbit709]

31. As good a political theorist as a scientist.

[elleng]

10. Regulation.

Ask Teddy Roosevelt.

One of his first notable acts as president was to deliver a 20,000-word address to Congress[76] asking it to curb the power of large corporations (called "trusts&quot . He also spoke in support of organized labor to the further chagrin of big business, but to their delight he endorsed the gold standard, protective tariffs and lower taxes.[77] For his aggressive use of United States antitrust law he became known as the "trust-buster." He brought 40 antitrust suits, and broke up such major combinations as the largest railroad and Standard Oil, the largest oil company.
In May 1902, anthracite coal miners went on strike, threatening a national energy shortage. After threatening the coal operators with intervention by federal troops, Roosevelt won their agreement to an arbitration of the dispute by a commission which succeeded in stopping the strike, dropping prices and retiring furnaces; the accord with J.P. Morgan resulted in the workers getting more pay for fewer hours, but with no union recognition.[78][79]
Roosevelt answered public anger over bad conditions in the food industry by pushing Congress to pass the Meat Inspection Act of 1906 and The Pure Food and Drug Act. The Meat Inspection Act of 1906 banned misleading labels and preservatives that contained harmful chemicals. The Pure Food and Drug Act banned food and drugs that are impure or falsely labeled from being made, sold, and shipped. Roosevelt was also served as honorary president of the school health organization American School Hygiene Association from 1907 to 1908, and in 1909 he convened the first White House Conference on the Care of Dependent Children.[80]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Roosevelt#Domestic_policies

[RobertEarl]

12. What a great man

He is also responsible for our National Parks.

He saw that capitalism must be regulated, and your post answered the question of what can we do about controlling the capitalists who take advantage of the system.

In order for us to make progress on today's problems, we first need to be aware of how each of us is involved. It does seem to be a giant first step to just have people realize that nearly all of us are capitalist, being that we use capital day in and day out. Buying property with a loan is using the capitalist system. Earning a paycheck is being in the capitalist system.

Capitalism has become such a dirty word we see people running from it with their hair on fire, and that strikes me as kinda dumb. Hence my threads; hoping to inform and educate.

[elleng]

13. Quite right. Thanks.

And, fwiw, Jimmy Carter was among the first to advocate 'deregulation.'

[RobertEarl]

15. Carter did, indeed

It was so long ago I don't remember all the particulars, but I do remember he deregulated the airlines. Seems the airlines could not compete and new companies could not get in the game. Now we have many choices and cheaper air fares. So that worked out well.

Also, I recall he wanted garbage trucks to reduce noise levels. So that was a regulation that would have benefited many.

[elleng]

16. a quick refresher on airline deregulation.

'Alfred E. Kahn, former chair of the Civil Aeronautics Board and the Council on Wage and Price Stability, adviser to President Jimmy Carter on inflation, and widely regarded as one of the world's leading scholars and influential figures in public utility regulation who helped create free markets in the air, rail and trucking industries, died of cancer at his home at Kendal at Ithaca in Ithaca, N.Y., Dec. 27. He was 93.'

http://news.cornell.edu/stories/2010/12/alfred-kahn-father-airline-deregulation-dies-93

I don't recall garbage trucks, but he was into 'economic' deregulation, not, I think, public health/safety matters.

[Adam051188]

14. i think i'm confused about something

well i have money, a little, so i'm a capitalist

i live in a community, does that make me a communist?

i'm social with people i'm around, i guess i'm also a socialist?

what would make you a libertarian by the same course of logic?

i live in a democratic republic, so am i a democrat or a republican?

[RobertEarl]

17. Capitalism is merely an economic system

It is not an exclusive system, meaning every economic transaction does not have to be made with capital. There are many other kinds of economy transactions. Bartering would be one. Bartering means not using capital.

Families make many transactions without using capital.

I have always claimed that our road system is a socialist transaction. The roads were built with capital, but you don't have to use capital to use roads.

[Maedhros]

19. There are three keys to success under Capitalism:

1. Capital
2. Capital
3. Capital

And "Capital" ain't the pocket change they let YOU have....

[RobertEarl]

22. Eh?

Penny stocks.

Borrowing for a car loan is being involved in the capitalist system. We all do it. Nothing to be ashamed of.

[tkmorris]

24. Dude, you're just wrong

Various people have tried to explain why, I won't repeat their efforts.

I own a bible. I am NOT a Christian. Do you understand why?

[RobertEarl]

25. I'm wrong but you can't say why?

That's weird.

Your money is defined as capital. It's the definition of capital: money. There are these really neat books, called dictionaries. You may have one around? There are even some online dictionary websites. Check out the definition of the word capital. You can bet I did.

[Maedhros]

29. At this point, you're just embarrassing yourself.

There's intractable, and then there's INTRACTABLE.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. I guess those middle age bankers were capitalists.

Or for that matter Romans.

Oy

[rug]

21. This is the same mindset that calls a person who owns one share of stock a factory owner.

When I give a homeless person a quarter I must be making him a capitalist.

[RobertEarl]

23. No. It is merely a definition

And we are all players in the capitalist financial system when we use capital and not just good looks to trade.

I used to do some trading on my good looks in days gone by. No capital involved there. Just affection and desire.

Capital can't buy you love. But it can buy you a hamburger.

[LooseWilly]

58. Actually, it is merely a fatuous, borderline idiotic definition....

By your idiotic definition: money is capital(ism)...

* If I buy a hat with some money, I'm a capitalist.
** But, if I pick some oranges from a tree beside the street and trade those for a hat, I'm NOT a capitalist?
*** But... if I use some money to buy a bag of oranges, and then trade half of them for a hat... I'm only a capitalist when I buy the oranges... while the trade of a commodity (some oranges) acquired with money, for the hat... is suddenly NOT capitalism?

Dude, your definition is spurious and incoherent.


Money is not capital. Money is a tool for commerce. It is a commodity wildcard, like a one-eyed jack, which can substitute itself for whatever party B of a trade would like to obtain in the barter between A and B, where party A would like some concrete commodity (for some purpose).

Capital is something that can be used to produce something which can be then traded in order to realize a profit. The key point here is that capital must be productive.

I will leave this lesson at this point... since you haven't shown any capacity to process information, there doesn't seem to be much point in wasting keystrokes.

[ErikJ]

26. Capitalist is a guy with enough money to loan it out and make a profit.

[ZombieHorde]

27. That is not what the word "capitalist" means.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/capitalist?show=0&t=1394267240

cap·i·tal·ist
noun \-ist\

: a person who has a lot of money, property, etc., and who uses those things to produce more money

: a person who believes that capitalism is the best kind of economic system

I am not sure why you made this thread, but you may wish to consult a dictionary before making any more definition threads.

[RobertEarl]

43. Did you even read what you wrote?

You wrote:

"a person who believes that capitalism is the best kind of economic system"

Well, if you have taken money for your labor and not a bag of rocks, then you would think that taking capital is a good economic system. Duh!!

You obviously can copy and paste but your comments make one wonder if you understand any of it.

[PowerToThePeople]

53. WTF?! I think a basic logic course at your local CC is in order.

Well, if you have taken money for your labor and not a bag of rocks, then you would think that taking capital is a good economic system. Duh!!

Well, if you have labored for a plantation owner as a slave, then you would think that slavery is a good system. Duh!!

Please enlighten me with another method a person can use to currently survive in this country without using the US dollar?

[ZombieHorde]

64. That is a pretty creative interpretation of the definition.

Unfortunately for you, it is false. Communist countries use currency. Children with no opinion on the matter use currency. No one is going to buy that definition. Pun totally intended.

[KansDem]

28. Got money and empathy? Then you are a socialist.

Yeah, I've got some money, but I'd rather my taxes went to helping people than bailing out banksters and giving them bonuses...

[Ichingcarpenter]

30. So if you have capital you are being capitalist.

So if you have sex you are being sexist

. So if you have race you are being racist.

[Spider Jerusalem]

32. Nope

capitalists are those who have money sufficient for investment with the aim of realising profit. Capital is not "money". Capital is money used to make more money. Wages, dividends and interest are not capital.

[RobertEarl]

33. I am gobsmacked

No wonder this country is so screwed. People can't even conceive the simple Truth because, well, I guess they just don't want to.

A fucking dollar is fucking capital. Look. It. UP. It's in the fucking dictionary.

There are times you wonder... is it worth it to try and discuss things with people. Times like these with the replies in this thread say: fuck no.

To the young people out there, all I can say is adults have failed you. We have destroyed the environment, we are leaving you in great debt, and we don't even fucking know what the fuck we are doing. We don't even know what capital is!!

So glad I am an old man and won't have to live with this crap much longer. Youngster, I am sorry. I tried, but you can see what you are up against. Good luck.

[Hissyspit]

36. "A fucking dollar is fucking capital."

Yeah, but capitalism is something else.

You're just wrong, dude.

[RobertEarl]

37. It is something else?

But for the life of you you don't know what the fuck it is?

Cuz if you did you spell it the fuck out, wouldn't you?

[Hissyspit]

38. You can start with this:

-ism

[RobertEarl]

40. That's it? All you can spell out is -"ism"?

Gobsmacked, again.

Take capital out of capitalism and that's all you have. An -ism.

[TheKentuckian]

48. Why are you stubbornly insisting that any all economic systems that use a form of currency

are capitalist and then further that if you have even have currency that you are a capitalist.

People are telling you but because you have landed on what you think is a clever point so you refuse to "get it" that possession of an object does not describe what you actually do with it and it does not dictate the feedback from the action taken.

Having a piano does not make one a pianist because being a pianist requires one to not only use the piano in some fashion or another but to use it to produce music and it is similar with capital and capitalism which requires one to actually invest said capital with the intent and at least plausible expectation of generating return on investment solely by providing the currency.

One can literally have a billion dollars but if that money is not used to fund profit seeking investment then they are not a capitalist but a person who has a net worth of a dollar but made it off a stock dividend is (or at least can be said to have engaged in capitalism).

Having money is not capitalism.

Spending money is not capitalism.

Saving money is not capitalism.

Using money and only money to make money is capitalism and I want to say that even that isn't enough to actually get there because I believe that there must also be a systematic preference to earnings made by an investor over the labor involved in earning money. One cannot be a capitalist on their own other than philosophically because they alone cannot give greater value to their financial investment than the labor required to produce the return.

[Starry Messenger]

51. It's spectacular in its wrongness.

[Spider Jerusalem]

47. From the dictionary, since you don't have one:

Capital - n².

3. A capital stock or fund. a. Commerce. The stock of a company, corporation, or individual with which they enter into business and on which profits or dividends are calculated; in a joint-stock company, it consists of the total sum of the contributions of the shareholders. Also, the general body of capitalists or employers of labour, esp. with regard to its political interests and claims. b. Pol. Econ. The accumulated wealth of an individual, company, or community, used as a fund for carrying on fresh production; wealth in any form used to help in producing more wealth.

From the dictionary again:

capitalism - n. an economic, political, and social system in which property, business, and industry are privately owned, directed towards making the greatest possible profits for successful organizations and people.

Capital, in the sense of "capitalism", is money used as investment in the means of production or labour. Capitalists are those whose capital is invested in commerce with the end of making the maximum profit. A wage-earner is not a capitalist.

[fishwax]

39. Interact with other people? (Socially?) You're a socialist.

[fishwax]

41. also: money =! capital n/t

[NightWatcher]

44. Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken

[Earth_First]

45. A dollar is currency.

Pooling currency and investing it into the creation goods and services is capital.

Turning a profit on the back of exploited labor is Capitalism.

Pretty simple.

[Bluenorthwest]

46. I have a few old Soviet Ruble and Kopek coins with

hammer and sickle and Lenin and everything. Is that money also capital? Made by communists?
I think you are confused.

[JanMichael]

49. oh my goodness. a capitalist owns the means of production not just coins.

The little tiny people that serve them have money but not the means.

Money is just a tool for the petit wannabees and lumpen proles to fight over.

[Starry Messenger]

52. Hahahahaha.

And you told me in the other thread that I should delete *my* post and then started this new pile based on that. smh indeed!

This just made my whole morning.

Labor Theory of Value. Look. It. Up.

[madville]

54. What's the point?

I use gas in my car but don't like the environmental aspects of it.

I eat meat but don't care for factory farming.

I use money but don't support predatory capitalism or excessive greed.

I have a retirement fund where my employer matches my contributions (up to 5% of my salary). That money makes more money depending how I spread it around among bonds, stocks, etc. Is that capitalistic? Sure. Are there excesses and abuses in that system? Absolutely.

[Vashta Nerada]

55. Poor argument.

[JaneyVee]

56. Having money doesn't make you a capitalist, but

It does mean you participate in capitalism.

[zappaman]

57. Well, this thread sure went well, eh?

[NuclearDem]

60. Again with this? You're not getting any more right.

At least it's not timetraveling radioactive starfish money.

[zappaman]

62. "At least it's not timetraveling radioactive starfish money."

[Starry Messenger]

63. Now he's telling me in his other thread that I'm a DU embarrassment.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4630125

This has got to be satire, or low-rent trolling.

[L0oniX]

61. Don't have a passport? You are a prisoner.

[kdmorris]

65. So, if we have sex, we are sexist... got it :rolleyes: n/t