The slaughter of young African American males continues

[FrodosPet]

Another 17 year old young black child is dead. Granted, he should not have been where he was, but still, he is dead. The gun nuts, of course are cheering. And the police chief of DETROIT, instead of supporting people calling the police like they should, is advocating that we put EVEN MORE guns into Detroit.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140306/METRO01/303060100/Detroit-man-shoots-intruders-killing-one-latest-home-invasion

~ snip ~

“The homeowner was able to retrieve his weapon, and fired hitting one of the burglars,” Johnson said. “He ran away and collapsed in the driveway. The other burglar was able to escape.”

The homeowner heard glass shatter near the rear of his home and found one intruder, believed to be 17 years old, attempting to enter through a window, Johnson said. The resident fired two shots hitting the victim in his chest. The juvenile intruder died.

~ snip ~

If the poor kid was stuck in the window, and the guy had time to retrieve his weapon, then he would have had time to flee, or at worst, hold the kid at gunpoint until the police arrived.

But he-man gun nut has probably been waiting for this opportunity for years.

[Fumesucker]

1. Indeed, and no one on DU seems to care

Other than myself this OP was totally ignored.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024609307

[Bonobo]

2. I missed your OP. Must have sank fast as hell.

I care a lot.

I think the lack of attention it gets really IS the story and really TELLS the story.

[Fumesucker]

4. No, I meant I was the only reply to that OP

Sorry for being unclear.

[Bonobo]

5. Incarceration rates. This needs to be repeated over and over and over.

It is a war. On low-income men and on low-income minority men in particular.

[riderinthestorm]

11. +100000 nt

[30cal]

13. The reason some of those countries have low incarceration rates is because

some of those countries they kill drug dealers, child molesters etc

Some even kill political prisoners.

If you are going to have a chart like that it should be mostly a European one.

[Bonobo]

15. That's absurd.

Which countries would you have me remove?

Do you REALLY believe they are killing so many drug dealers and child molesters that it is affecting the per capita rates to that degree? Be serious.

No. It is exactly as it appears.

[30cal]

18. The governments don't publish those numbers so you can google a chart to post

http://rt.com/news/chinChina does not release statistics of the number of people it executes each year, so the total number of Africans killed for drug trafficking is unknowna-to-execute-more-african-drug-dealers/


This is just China now Rwanda sometimes won't incarcerate criminals for theft.
They just cut their hand or fingers off.

I can find more examples if you need them.

[Bonobo]

19. It would take tens of thousands to significantly affect those numbers.

No country uses their legal system to execute ANYWHERE near those numbers.

[30cal]

21. Like I said they don't publish numbers of state executions like the U.S does

Some cases they just maim the offender and let him go so he's not in prison.

The world is a brutal place when you step outside this country to some 3rd world one.

Hell remember when the police in Brazil were literally hunting children in the slums

[Bonobo]

23. I understand, but in a population of tens of millions, it would require MASSIVE

numbers to alter those per capita rates.

Even accounting for what you say, I do not think you can discount the significance of that chart.

[30cal]

28. Absolutely I don't discount it

What we have as an incarceration rate is an embarrassment .
All I was saying is comparing it to any 3rd country wouldn't be accurate on that list.

[Bonobo]

29. OK, we meet in the middle! Thanks for hanging in there.

So rare to not run into a rude poster.

Well, I guess you haven't been here long enough.

[30cal]

31. That's not me

I enjoyed the exchange.

[proudretiredvet]

37. I did notice that this kid did not knock on the front door.

He used force breaking the window. So now we know that there is a person who is not afraid to use force that is forcing his way into another persons home uninvited. The home owner can not be held responsible for knowing any intent past this point. He can't read minds any more than you can.
He has a right to protect himself and his home, and he did exactly that.

The illegal act, action, is all on the intruders.

I am sensitive to the rights of people but in this situation the homeowners right supersedes the criminals by light years.

[Lost_Count]

3. The secret is to refrain from home invasion...

Play stupid games... Win stupid prizes...

[Bonobo]

7. Does that account for the numbers in post #5? Really?

Or is something else at work?

[proudretiredvet]

42. What does this kids criminal forced entry into a citizens home have to with post #5

And I'll impose the BS rule. If it takes more than two simple sentences to make a valid and clear point then we know it is BS.

[Bonobo]

43. Sorry, I posted in the wrong place on that one. nt

[proudretiredvet]

45. No problem

[dionysus]

6. this probably is not the best example to use to reduce gun violence, just saying....

[X_Digger]

8. But we're told that random home invasions are a myth! Only bad people (drug dealers) get invaded!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4601939

The way I read the account in this case was that the homeowner heard glass breaking, retrieved his firearm to check it out, and found the intruder climbing through the window.

[dionysus]

12. might not be random, they probably cased the joint... still, it seems some would rather he help the

guy out of the window and talk things through...

[X_Digger]

17. Based on the OP, I think you're reading more into the story than the news reports warrant.

If you're going to suppose a 'he-man gun nut' 'waiting for this opportunity for years' based on the details released so far, then it's just as valid for me to suppose a criminal telling the homeowner that once he climbs through the window, he's going to kill him. We also don't know the age or physical health of the homeowner.

Looking at the homes on google street view, seems to be a street of 600-900 sq ft 1940's bungalows. Typical little grandpa and grandma homes around here (though I have no idea what the typical age for a resident of these is in Detroit.) The center house in the picture appears to be 8213 Penrod, which zillow shows a value of about $32k for.

[dionysus]

22. can you expound further on your opinion, because i think we may have misread each others posts, here

I'm not going to jump on a guy shooting someone in the act of breaking into his home....

[X_Digger]

25. I'm saying your exposition seems unwarranted, given the sketchy details.

I can make up a story portraying the homeowner as an 85yo poor disabled african-american widowed retiree on social security, a WWII vet, a UAW union captain for 30 years, married to his high school sweetheart for 55 years before her untimely demise-- facing a 6'5" 250lb youth with bloodshot eyes, drooling mouth, carrying a switchblade in one hand, and a gun in the other...

And it would be just as valid as your 'he-man gun nut' 'waiting for this opportunity for years' story (which is to say not at all, since there is so little detail about the homeowner, the deceased, or the circumstances by which the two met.)


eta: My apologies! I mistook you for the OP! I'll leave the chain here to shame myself into reading closer next time!

[dionysus]

26. ok, gotcha. i never insinuated the home owner was a gun nut, or the guy breaking in was charles

manson, so I'm still at a loss

[X_Digger]

27. Read one up, I edited. My mistake! :) n/t

[dionysus]

35. .

[boomer55]

9. Don't do the crime don't suffer the consequences. N/T

[30cal]

10. Where did it say he was stuck in the window?

[Union Scribe]

14. Wow.

Gun nuts my ass. These are homeowners who know that the police in Detroit can't/won't stop the crimes that keep happening to them. They are under siege. Recently the same thing happened to a woman in her fifties who shot at intruders. Was she a gun nut waiting her whole life to murder someone too, or is that just men?

[30cal]

16. He has to live with this now the rest of his life

It's not an easy thing to do for most people. I bet now he wishes if he could relive the moment he fired into the window sill
and both of them just ran off. His life is going to change for ever now.

I'm not blaming him for what he did but it doesn't sound like a home invasion , just a burglary in the middle of the day where they thought no one was home.

[CANDO]

20. I am by no means a gun humper....

But if I catch an intruder breaking into my home.....all bets are off. You do not violate someone's home and expect them to be nice and fix a meal for you. Doesn't matter if you're Martian....you're going to be met with deadly resistance.

[Mugu]

24. So you’re claiming that one should “flee” if attacked in their own home?!!!!

I don’t think so.

[HappyMe]

30. It's dudes. Who cares!!1

[JJChambers]

32. I will never understand this mindset

This is a homeowner, in his own home, protecting himself from an intruder BREAKING IN. There is no other scenario in which deadly force is more clearly justified.

Instead of taking the time to point out the disparities in incarceration rates (relevance to this topic? are we suggesting home invaders shouldn't be incarcerated?), why don't we talk to our young people and explain to them the very real dangers of a life of crime, and that even if this was "just a daytime burglary" as someone else in the thread put it, that daytime burglaries are WRONG, and come with an incredible risk.

Personal responsibility, folks. It's tragic that the young man chose to commit a crime leading to his own death.

[Ed Suspicious]

34. The mindset is predicated on the ideal of not killing people when you have the chance to avoid it.

A warning shot. A strong yell to leave or suffer the consequences... I don't know. I can't imagine intentionally taking someone's life even if they had bad intentions. Burglary seems short of a situation where I would feel justified in killing somebody unless there were direct advances at me with clear intention of taking my life. Entering my house uninvited is getting there, but it doesn't quite cross that threshold for me.

[JJChambers]

36. Is your family worth that gamble?

The moment an intruder is gaining access to my home, I must assume that intruder means myself, my spouse, or our young children harm. It is my duty to protect them. I will not wait until the last possible moment to stop the threat; I will stop it at the first opportunity which is legal, ethical and tactical.

[dionysus]

38. did you think he could have? if i was washing dishes and some guy burst thru the window trying to

get in... I'd assume an armed intruder ready to kill me, i'd want a weapon at hand.

[proudretiredvet]

44. Warning shots??? Nope

Believe it or not warning shots will usually get you arrested. You can shoot at someone you feel is threatening you in this situation and it is justified but warning shots are usually considered unnecessary, reckless, and dangerous.
If you get out a gun and show it to someone and don't use it because it scares them off it is called brandishing and you can be arrested for that too.

The people who make these laws aren't the brightest.

[JJChambers]

33. Lessons

From the same article:

■ A woman in her 50s on Friday shot and killed a man trying to break into her home in the 22000 block of Grove Street. She heard noises at her rear window and shot the intruder in the chest.

■ On Feb. 22, two home invaders were killed: At 2 a.m., two men broke into a house on the city's southwest side; the homeowner shot both men. A 21-year-old man died and the other man escaped. Earlier at 12:30 a.m., a woman who was surprised by a gunman when she pulled her car into the garage was able to reach for her own gun and fatally shoot the man.

■ In an incident that made national headlines, a woman on Feb. 17 opened fire on three teens who kicked in her door. The alleged intruders, ages 14, 14 and 15, were caught by police, and face home invasion charges.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140306/METRO01/303060100#ixzz2vLOsjjev


Guns are an incredible equalizer. In two of these instances, a woman was able to defend herself from armed MALE intruder(s).

[Skip Intro]

40. Self-defense and self-preservation are hated concepts by some. n/t

[Skip Intro]

39. Don't want to die invading other people's homes?

Don't invade other people's homes.

Sad situation, but I am not for a second going to fault the homeowner, the legal resident of the property, for protecting his home, and possibly life.

I'm sure some here would only be happy if he'd laid down and begged the home invaders not to hurt him him or his family.

Blame the victim all you want, but the perp took his chances when he decided to invade someone elses home. He's the criminal here, not the man defending his home and life.

[HappyMe]

41. If you would have said 'girls'

it would have been waaaay different.

It's fuckin sad, but that is what it is.

I'm a woman. I can't think of a fuckin excuse.........

[mkmyxgxe]

46. There's a very simple solution to this problem.

If you don't want to get shot while sneaking through someone's window, don't sneak through someone's window. No sympathy for this POS.

[Heidi]

47. Kick.

[Nye Bevan]

48. And the prevalence of the "I enjoy home invasions" gene is reduced.

I am pro-gun control but you picked the wrong example here.