Zimmerman: anything less than 1st degree murder is not acceptable

[Hugabear]

I'm glad to see that somebody is taking a look into George Zimmerman. However, anything less than a first degree murder charge will be unacceptable. Not manslaughter, not 2nd degree murder, not negligent homicide, none of these lesser charges.

Zimmerman murdered Trayvon Martin in cold blood. He told the 911 dispatcher that these "fucking coons" "always get away", and this time he meant to make sure that didn't happen. Despite being told not to, he chased after Martin, and shot him dead.

This racist asshole needs to spend the rest of his life behind bars.

[madaboutharry]

1. Agree. Anything less than 1st degree murder

Would be an affront to all that is decent and just.

[Snake Alchemist]

2. Charged or convicted? nt

[Hugabear]

9. Both. - nt

Nt

[Lint Head]

3. Agree! The innocent teenager will spend the rest of his life dead.

[L0oniX]

4. I guess that everyone has all the evidence they need to convict Zim without a trial.

[peacebird]

6. You do get tiresome. We want him arrested and tried for first degree murder.

Anything less would be a travesty. The Sanford PD has tried to make this case go away, it won't.

[Snake Alchemist]

10. And if he is ruled innocent? nt

[L0oniX]

14. Tisk tisk ...we won't let details get in the way of the mob mentallity.

[peacebird]

22. Again, you do get tiresome. If you are interested in my response it is posted.

[peacebird]

19. Then that is the end of it. Obviously.

[spin]

15. Imagine all the money we can save by replacing our current legal system ...

with the news media. In a matter of days we can throw an individual in jail for years by just reading the reports on a crime in the news and voting in a poll.

No more jury summons!

just in case

[Lost-in-FL]

27. Well, it didn't work for the Casey Anthony case...

[spin]

39. Our legal system is far from perfect ...

but it's far better than allowing the news media to replace it.

[Lost-in-FL]

44. Hell to the 'yes'!

Still better, as the Anthony case proved. You cannot condemn anyone to death without absolute proof. People was disappointed but at least the system did something right even under all the mistakes done on that case. That was a real mess.

[FarPoint]

21. I'm satisfied

It's simple ...Zimmerman hunted his prey successfully. I will always see Zimmerman as an assassin. A trial is only a formality for me.

[onenote]

43. I guess my version of being progressive is different than yours.

Big tent.

[FarPoint]

47. My progressive posture does have limits.

I'm fine with my position.

[Johonny]

57. last time I checked people on internet sites can't convict people

they can just have opinions. I get your opinion a million times over. People if they have an opinion some how don't believe in due process of law. I think that opinion is insane. When the American legal system used internet chat sites for trials I'll worry about people having the ability to form and express opinions about popular topics in the daily news. Until than really cut the holier than though act. You impress no one but yourself.

[Lost-in-FL]

5. I thought the "fu$@&ng c00ns" was debunked.

Further analysis proved it said "fu@&$ng punks".


Am I wrong?


Still, proves 'intent' of course.

[L0oniX]

11. Has that been accepted as evidence in a court of law?

[Lost-in-FL]

13. Nope... at least 'it is being investigated'. nt

[guitar man]

18. In the clip I extracted

from a YouTube video, he says "ficking coons". Whether or not the audio has been altered, I'm not 100% sure.

[Lost-in-FL]

24. I think it was in a TYT video.

Cent said it was 'punks', not the other. Can't find link now.

[vaberella]

48. Cenk never said punks.

Actually that is being debated on TYT. The real question is if it's even there at all. The local Florida news released tape says Coons/punks depending on sound system. On super loud it's coons on regular audio it's punks. The few people who analyzed it online say it's coons. Moving on from there, the police released tapes---you hear nothing of the sort. There is no mumbling under the breath. This was discussed on Lawrence O'Donnell's show with one of the family's lawyers. Until they can clarify who's evidence is real...they will go by the police released tape until further details are confirmed. This is why the FBI is so important in this.

[Lost-in-FL]

51. Got it.

Thanks!

[guitar man]

58. Cenk can say what he wants

If what I found was unaltered, he said it. And I've got the right stuff to hear it with. My post from yesterday

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=450897

[vaberella]

26. You are very wrong. It has NEVER been debunked. n/t

[Lost-in-FL]

37. Regardless of what he said, c--n or punk...

there is still 'intent'. What is important is the statement "...they always get away". So yes, he is persuing this innocent young man, he does not want him to get away... even when told not to.

This is just ONE of the things that must be investigated, and I can't believe he has not been detained yet.

[vaberella]

41. I agree with you fully on that.

I have a problem with the police. I was more shocked to learn that the parents of Trayvon Martin were not notified of their sons death until 3 days later. I want an explanation for that. I find the entire police department culpable of a cover up just for that alone. If the kid had his cell phone it would be easy to identify who he was. And I'm sure the father of the boy would have called the cops when he saw that his son hadn't come home when he just went for snacks before the basketball game. The police are majorly at fault for more than just not arresting Zimmerman.

[Lost-in-FL]

46. WHAT?? Three days??

[vaberella]

50. Yeah, you didn't know. This is what is killing me about this case. It's in a huffpo article.

There is just way too much shit going on and the police are in head deep. But you can find it else where. I will look for the article I read earlier today for you. I was in shock and I could say appalled when I heard that. Can you imagine the tampering that could have been done during that time?

[Lost-in-FL]

54. Incompetence in the police force is nothing new to me living here in FL.

They only care to give tickets to meet monthly quotas. But depriving a father/mother from the news about their son being dead? What did the police do? Hide the corpse?

[USArmyParatrooper]

7. You can't.

You would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt it was premeditated. That would be impossible to prove, and frankly I don't even believe it was.

The best you can possibly hope for is 2nd degree murder.

[L0oniX]

12. All he has to do is say he was in "fear for his life" and then let the court prove he wasn't.

[USArmyParatrooper]

16. The realistic charge would be

voluntary manslaughter.

2nd degree murder would be the most ambitious charge.

1st degree is out if the question.

[arthritisR_US]

17. I agree. He would have to have known when

the boy was going to go to the store, the precise time. They could charge the man with first degree, to placate the masses, but they would have zero chance if getting a conviction, IMO.

[jmowreader]

55. Premeditation doesn't require weeks of forethought

That he got out of the car with his gun after the cops told him not to, in the hands of a good prosecutor (and from the looks of it we'll have to mail one down there) will suffice to prove premeditation. And if he actually said something like "fucking (someone) always get away," Zimmerman is totally screwed.

[USArmyParatrooper]

59. Not even close.

You would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he planned to kill him all along, that it didn't just happen in the heat of the moment.

Him simply having the gun with him, and him expressing frustration that the burglars always get away doesn't even come close to being beyond a reasonable doubt.

[jmowreader]

63. Read this...

http://www.law.fsu.edu/library/flsupct/sc08-744/op-sc08-744.pdf

“Killing with premeditation” is killing after consciously deciding to do so. The decision must be present in the mind at the time of the killing. The law does not fix the exact period of time that must pass between the formation of the premeditated intent to kill and the killing. The period of time must be long enough to allow reflection by the defendant. The premeditated intent to kill must be formed before the killing.

If they can prove he said the thing about "those people always getting away" before he went out and hunted down Trayvon, a jury has evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that there's premeditation. Whether you can get a conviction on it is another thing; you know how lethal Arizona Iced Tea is.

[USArmyParatrooper]

65. No, it's NOT "beyond a reasonable doubt."

Once can express, "Those assholes always get away" without having any intention to kill the person. I don't think there's a DA in the world who would agree with you.

[RZM]

8. Maybe the DU lawyer contingent could weigh in here

But I'll bet first degree would be pretty tough to prove. If he gets charged it will probably be with something less than that. I imagine he would walk pretty easily on a first-degree charge.

Not a lawyer though. Just my armchair opinion.

[alarimer]

20. What I want is for someone to do to him what he did.

But two wrongs don't make a right or whatever.

So yes, murder one, life without parole. But the stupid fucking redneck Florida jurors would probably acquit him anyway.

[slackmaster]

23. What will you do if the grand jury doesn't agree with you?

If you don't "accept" their decision, do you have a contingency plan?

[peacebird]

29. If he is tried and found not guilty then that is the end. We are a nation of laws.

I do want him tried however, because I feel he showed reckless disregard in his actions, chasing after a young man, and when he had that same young man begging for help he shot him.
Trayvon did not deserve to die for this mans cowardice and fear.

[slackmaster]

49. Thanks peacebird. I don't see an action statement in your answer.

I take it you'll do nothing.

Still waiting for a reply from the OP.

[Hugabear]

52. I'll be pissed off.

I was pissed off when the LAPD officers were found not guilty in beating Rodney King. There have been plenty of court decisions and verdicts that have pissed me off. And I suppose I would be highly pissed if Zimmerman gets off lightly as well.

[slackmaster]

56. Thank you.

I plan to accept whatever decision the grand jury delivers unless someone gives me a compelling reason to doubt their competence or their honesty.

[workinclasszero]

25. Agree!

And its a capital murder trial. Racist killer("fuckin coons&quot lose, racist killer gets spike in the arm and takes a dirt nap!

Oh and a federal hate crime charge of course.

We need to start a movement to end these insane "stand your ground" laws which obviously are put in place to make it safe for vigilante killers like Zimmerman to execute any "suspicious looking" blacks they see walking back from the store!

[Stan Smith]

28. He needs to go to prison for life.

Even if by some slight chance it wasn't racially motivated, he had no right to pull that trigger. This is why I wish we could do away with guns, I know that is unrealistic and some people are responsible with guns, but I'm so sick of senseless murders.

[Snake Alchemist]

30. Before the trial or after? nt

[peacebird]

31. Well, clearly one gets prison for life only after a trial, right?

[Snake Alchemist]

34. Some seem ready to get the posse together. nt

[peacebird]

36. And some seem intent on posting strawman arguements on every single thread about Trayvon.

[Snake Alchemist]

40. Wanting evidence to be judged at a trial is a strawman argument? Learn something new every day. nt

[peacebird]

42. Accusing the rest of us of not wanting a trial... Posting repeatedly that we are all bad evil people

When in fact most have been insisting that zimmerman be tried.

[Snake Alchemist]

45. If you can't see the foaming of the mouth, then there is nothing I can do.

Good people can be caught up in a mob. That's why it can be so tragic.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

64. the only foaming at the mouth i see is from you in your desire to accuse good Duers n/t

[Hugabear]

53. Last time I checked, DU wasn't a courtroom

You seem to be confusing this with a jury trial. We have the freedom to make our judgments based on the facts at hand, and those facts point very strongly toward Zimmerman being a murdering punk.

[L0oniX]

38. Mob rules.

I also don't agree with mob mentality.

[Stan Smith]

32. After the trial of course.

I know technically innocent until proven guilty, but from all I have seen it is pretty obvious that he is guilty.

[Snake Alchemist]

33. I think he looks guilty as sin, but I'm going to wait for the trial before calling for sentencing.

nt

[Stan Smith]

35. Since my opinion has no impact on what will happen I feel I can express what I think should happen.

Now if I was on the jury, I would have to be more fair minded.

[cherokeeprogressive]

62. So you can switch your "fair mindedness" on and off like a light switch... is that right?

Makes me wonder whose "peer" you would be in the context of serving on a jury.

[cherokeeprogressive]

61. Statements like yours get people dismissed from juries post haste.

"Technically"? Why don't you find that in the Declaration of Independence, Federalist Papers, or Constitution for me.

For you to have seen something making it "pretty obvious" that he is guilty means you must have been magically hovering over the scene of the crime and witness to things NO ONE ELSE was.

Why don't you tell me what you have "seen" that makes his guilt obvious. For fuck's sake...

[cherokeeprogressive]

60. "He told the 911 dispatcher... this time he meant to make sure that didn't happen."

No he didn't.

Read the Florida Statute regarding capital murder. Then take a deep breath and decide if you think the words you typed are actually pertinent to the discussion, or merely a statement of how angry you are.