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jollyreaper2112

(1,941 posts)
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 03:59 PM Feb 2014

Where do your rights end and mine begin?

"The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins."
Zechariah Chafee

I think that's pretty sound in principle. If someone's behavior isn't harming me, it's none of my business. Two homosexuals want to go at it, none of my business unless they're noisy, same applies to heterosexuals. That's reasonable. If they're having sex on the front lawn, that's indecent behavior, same goes for a heterosexual couple or anyone parading around in the buff.

The kicker seems to be imaginary wrongs. I can prove a harm if a neighbor is dumping motor oil in the backyard or burning tires or running a meth lab. There's a code violation if he fills has backyard with livestock or turns his house into a daycare. But imaginary wrongs, that comes down to faith. Blacks in the neighborhood lowering property values, the mere presence of gays threatening to increase incidents of homosexuality among the children, there's no more factual basis to those beliefs than religious dietary laws. Show me the scientific test that indicates this steak came from a kosher-slaughtered cow and that steak came from a halal-slaughtered cow. Ok, with property values there might be a drop due to hysteria, the same as if people stop shopping at a business rumored to be owned by a witch but that's just ignorance.

If your identity, cultural or religious, is predominantly about who you hate, you are fucked. You have nothing to offer the world. The only positive contribution you can make is dying childless and letting your ignorance follow you to the grave.

What I think is being missed here with people in these debates is the question of public and private behavior. Nobody is legislating that you have to like people. If you don't like gay sex, don't fuck someone your same gender you don't believe in divorce, don't have one. If you don't like black people, you don't have to be friends. That's private. But in public you have to suck it up.

The one difference, I think, is between customer and proprietor. You don't have to shop at a given store but if you do, they're obligated to serve.

8 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Where do your rights end and mine begin? (Original Post) jollyreaper2112 Feb 2014 OP
Hear, hear! Arkansas Granny Feb 2014 #1
That part jumped out at me, also. narnian60 Feb 2014 #2
Yeah. Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #3
I usually qualify it as "direct harm" Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #4
well jollyreaper2112 Feb 2014 #5
I'm fortunate to live in a highly secular place where every year 10,000+ people do a naked bike ride Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #8
If your identity, cultural or religious, is predominantly about who you hate, you are fucked. Bluenorthwest Feb 2014 #6
Perfectly stated regarding personal rights, beliefs and the wastefulness of hatred. Thanks. n/t freshwest Feb 2014 #7

Arkansas Granny

(31,522 posts)
1. Hear, hear!
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 04:13 PM
Feb 2014

"If your identity, cultural or religious, is predominantly about who you hate, you are fucked. You have nothing to offer the world."

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
4. I usually qualify it as "direct harm"
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 04:23 PM
Feb 2014

or maybe provable direct harm.

Because otherwise people can say "someone being gay/reading a naughty book/smoking pot in the privacy of their own home makes me mad, and that is harmful to me!", or they'll use some convoluted argument about how society in general is damaged by, say, wearing white after labor day and as such it needs to be punished with the death penalty.

jollyreaper2112

(1,941 posts)
5. well
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 04:53 PM
Feb 2014

That's what I meant by imaginary wrongs.

Some things end up being cultural and are hard to fight. Men with fatty deposits on their chest have moobs that are pretty much like hairy breasts. These can be displayed in public but a woman's breasts cannot. It's stupid but a fight that will take a damn long time in winning. But it's the same sort of idiocy as behind segregation. "I can't prove it with science but I have my faith! Mixing races is bad!"

If I want to get right down to it, I consider religion toxic and think it's abuse to raise kids religiously. But that's not a fight I even want to try to make because what sort of solution wouldn't make for a bigger problem? CPS taking kids away from religious households? I'd be against that. Best I can figure is have freethinking organizations available for kids who survive the upbringing.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
8. I'm fortunate to live in a highly secular place where every year 10,000+ people do a naked bike ride
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 08:04 PM
Feb 2014


At this point in the game I couldn't deal with living in an uptight religious type area.
 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
6. If your identity, cultural or religious, is predominantly about who you hate, you are fucked.
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 04:55 PM
Feb 2014

Best single line on DU in months, distills so much into such a short space.

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