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hootinholler

(26,449 posts)
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 10:15 PM Feb 2014

It's a little sad, really.

The fabled DU of yore created a wonderful catalog of the events surrounding Valeri Plame. Coloquially known here as The Plame Threads.

Here we have all that has yet been revealed by Snowden and rather than creating a resource that we can all reference regarding WTF is going on in our intelligence community, we are wallowing in finger pointing witch hunts for who is the paid troll.

Here is my challenge DU. Let's create a one stop shop to help decode what the programs are, and what they do.

One resource is the EFF timeline.

I don't know anyone that has all the programs mentioned in one place, that would be a good starting point.

51 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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It's a little sad, really. (Original Post) hootinholler Feb 2014 OP
That EFF timeline is very useful. Thanks. (nt) enough Feb 2014 #1
We are trying in the Progressive Group. rhett o rick Feb 2014 #2
It's up now as a "PMRG" Resource Reference...hopefully folks will remember to check KoKo Feb 2014 #22
I shorten it to Progressive Group, but you are correct. rhett o rick Feb 2014 #45
Ty for the link! n/t 1awake Feb 2014 #38
I certainly remember the 'Plame threads' and the accusing posters... alittlelark Feb 2014 #3
Whoa... That's Weird... I Just Posted This: WillyT Feb 2014 #4
That time line thing is interesting. zeemike Feb 2014 #5
Recommended. Pass it on!!! NYC_SKP Feb 2014 #6
It's now in the PMRG for Resource! KoKo Feb 2014 #21
You are brave. oldandhappy Feb 2014 #7
There is a fine line between being brave hootinholler Feb 2014 #16
Huge K&R woo me with science Feb 2014 #8
Those were classic threads; back in the day when all of us considered corporate state corruption Zorra Feb 2014 #9
I agree Pretzel_Warrior Feb 2014 #10
Really? That's a surprise! n/t sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #12
Of course. If done factually, it will likely show things you'd rather not acknowledge. ConservativeDemocrat Feb 2014 #13
Lol! sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #14
Didn't her husband come to DU to ask us to back them up, or am I imagining things? sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #11
Not that I'm aware of hootinholler Feb 2014 #17
I seem to remember that, too, Sabrina 1. He wrote a post as I recall... KoKo Feb 2014 #23
I think he did Koko it was an OP but not sure if he participated in the comments. Maybe someone who sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #34
I just looked at the EFF timeline, that is excellent. So where are the Congressional investigations sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #15
DU2 used to have a Research Archive Octafish Feb 2014 #18
Well...there's a DU Group here trying..... KoKo Feb 2014 #24
Thank you, KoKo! Octafish Feb 2014 #33
Indeed...I remember when we all wanted Scooter Libby's head for leaking. Maybe he should have msanthrope Feb 2014 #19
since when does a "whistle blower" act to punish a specific individual G_j Feb 2014 #26
What? You think Scooter and Armitage were only trying to punish Plame? You forget they msanthrope Feb 2014 #31
Exactly. I made ProSense Feb 2014 #27
I remember when Sybel Edmonds was trusted and respected here. Whisp Feb 2014 #30
Glenn's book comes out on March 25th...I am sure he will insist that all negative reviews are the msanthrope Feb 2014 #32
Scooter Libby is equal to an Ellsberg, Manning, Snowden? Well now I understand completely where you sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #35
If that is what you think I think, I know from experience that you will not be persuaded.... msanthrope Feb 2014 #37
Were there charges filed against that American citizen? I can't judge anyone unless I see the sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #39
I think you should start an OP about your favorite "non-violent cleric." Perhaps you could include msanthrope Feb 2014 #40
Speeches and sermons warrant the Death Penalty without charges, trial and/or conviction? Really? sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #41
Sabrina--I think you should totally start an OP for the purposes of exonerating msanthrope Feb 2014 #42
Did I misunderstand you regarding a President having the right to order the sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #43
Sabrina, I really think DU would benefit from an OP from you about your msanthrope Feb 2014 #44
So, there were no charges? I assume you would not try to avoid posting them if there were. sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #46
I think you should make an OP, and present your legal analysis. I am looking msanthrope Feb 2014 #48
Thanks for your legal analysis. I like to be clear on where people stand on this issues. sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #49
WOW. I think this might just go beyond the normal authoritarian schtick we get around here. hootinholler Feb 2014 #50
Behind the Curtain: Booz Allen Hamilton and its Owner, The Carlyle Group Octafish Feb 2014 #20
Oh Yeah...the Tentacles of the NSA Enterprise & the Other Survellance Groups KoKo Feb 2014 #29
Thanks Octafish for reminding us of what has become of our government now privatized to unethical, sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #36
I'm with you! Cali_Democrat Feb 2014 #25
Very useful, it's good to see information presented that way. KittyWampus Feb 2014 #28
The timeline forgot this series from 2010, which is where I'd suggest everyone start Blue_Tires Feb 2014 #47
Good info Blue JustAnotherGen Feb 2014 #51
 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
45. I shorten it to Progressive Group, but you are correct.
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 03:36 PM
Feb 2014

And thanks for all the effort in the group.

alittlelark

(18,890 posts)
3. I certainly remember the 'Plame threads' and the accusing posters...
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 11:39 PM
Feb 2014

... those saying she was a traitor etc....

We used to have far more 'research threads' than we do now. Now it seems to be 'cult of personality' chimpanzee 'poo throwing' contests.

Perhaps directed in that direction by a well financed directorate....

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
5. That time line thing is interesting.
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 12:20 AM
Feb 2014

It really helps put the whole thing togather....book marked it for later viewing.

hootinholler

(26,449 posts)
16. There is a fine line between being brave
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 08:47 AM
Feb 2014

And not giving a shit anymore.

Freedom's just another word...

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
9. Those were classic threads; back in the day when all of us considered corporate state corruption
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 12:51 AM
Feb 2014

to be a very wrong and terrible thing.

ConservativeDemocrat

(2,720 posts)
13. Of course. If done factually, it will likely show things you'd rather not acknowledge.
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 01:28 AM
Feb 2014

Starting with the fact that domestic surveillance had been already been curtailed under Speaker Pelosi.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
11. Didn't her husband come to DU to ask us to back them up, or am I imagining things?
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 12:58 AM
Feb 2014

Thanks for this thread, hootnholler.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
34. I think he did Koko it was an OP but not sure if he participated in the comments. Maybe someone who
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 01:13 PM
Feb 2014

is good at researching could find it .....

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
15. I just looked at the EFF timeline, that is excellent. So where are the Congressional investigations
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 01:50 AM
Feb 2014

into these crimes against the American people? I know there were a few hearings, some weak acknowledgement of wrongdoing, lies from Clapper with no consequences, but this is a HUGE crime against our Constitution and yet, there appears to be nothing but silence from those who swore to 'defend and protect the US Constitution against ALL enemies, both foreign and DOMESTIC'. Seems to me we have more enemies domestically than foreign.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
18. DU2 used to have a Research Archive
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 10:35 AM
Feb 2014

Perhaps the unconstitutional, illegal, immoral, unnecessary and largely-for-blackmail domestic spy operation can lead to its re-establishment.

Thanks for another great thread and proposal, Hoot! Very much appreciate your observations regarding the, uh, change on what DU was and is and could be, again.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
24. Well...there's a DU Group here trying.....
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 11:28 AM
Feb 2014

DU is so large now that its hard to get concentration on any one topic the way we used to be able to do, though.

"Progressive Media Resources Group"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1269

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
19. Indeed...I remember when we all wanted Scooter Libby's head for leaking. Maybe he should have
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 10:46 AM
Feb 2014

claimed "whistleblower" status.

G_j

(40,367 posts)
26. since when does a "whistle blower" act to punish a specific individual
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 11:34 AM
Feb 2014

for contradicting the said "whistle blower's" lie?

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
31. What? You think Scooter and Armitage were only trying to punish Plame? You forget they
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 11:54 AM
Feb 2014

targeted Plame, her husband, their children, Brewster Jennings (and the people working there), and the programs Plame was working on, covertly---

No one would describe details of her overseas activities, which remain classified, or her last job within the CPD -- other than to say that her work included dealing with personnel as well as issues related to weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and Iran.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/15/AR2007031502448_2.html


Her name was released not just because of her husband's work in Niger, but because of her work on WMD in Iraq and Iran....and just who would benefit from removing people from the CIA who could attest to the actual state of WMDs in Iraq and Iran? Remember how Cheney wanted to go to war in Iran, too? How better than to eliminate the people who wouldn't give him the intelligence he wanted?

You really think this was just about Plame? Cheney, et al, targeted an intelligence project they didn't like, to further their own agenda. Sound familiar?

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
27. Exactly. I made
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 11:37 AM
Feb 2014

"I remember when we all wanted Scooter Libby's head for leaking. Maybe he should have claimed 'whistleblower' status."

...a similiar when people were hyping that hack from Fox Noise.

Reporter Says He First Learned of C.I.A. Operative From Rove
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022850304

The hypocrisy is thick, but it doesn't prevent some from trying to distort to claim that others had a different position under Bush.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024562807#post181

During Plame, leaking was treason. Now, it's heroic. Forget that others can see where Snowden went off the rails (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024202440)

“What Mr. Snowden did is treason, was high crimes, and there is nothing in what we say that justifies what he did,” said Richard Clarke, a former White House counter-terrorism advisor and current ABC News contributor. “Whether or not this panel would have been created anyway, I don’t know, but I don’t think anything that I’ve learned justifies the treasonous acts of Mr. Snowden.”

From the beginning, it was clear that Snowden broke the law (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023439290). There was a point where even Snowden supporters accepted that he knew he broke the law. Snowden said it himself.

Fleeing the country and releasing state secrets did not help his case.

His actions since then have only made the situation worse.

Whistleblowers have been making that point, some in subtle ways.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023236549

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023035550

Of course, this is dimissed because they're also critical of the NSA. It's as if some think that you can't be against NSA overreach (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023002358) unless you support Snowden.

What's that line thrown out whenever Greenwald is criticized: Were you against Clarke when he went after Bush? Were you for Scooter Libby when he leaked Plame's identity?





 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
30. I remember when Sybel Edmonds was trusted and respected here.
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 11:49 AM
Feb 2014

She was regarded as a Hero by the vast majority here.
Now, not so much as she thinks GG is a scammer.

Checkbook Journalism & Leaking to the Highest Bidders
Sibel Edmonds | December 8, 2013
http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2013/12/08/checkbook-journalism-leaking-to-the-highest-bidders/

Imagine a major government whistleblower who leaks his evidence and obtained documents to the highest bidders in the mainstream media and mega corporations. Does that sound awful, disgraceful and despicable? Okay. Now, imagine a pseudo journalist who obtains over 50,000 documents from a government whistleblower, and then takes some of this information and puts it out for bid, reserves a certain portion for a lucrative book deal, and saves the rest for a mega corporation that has a record of screwing whistleblowers. How does that sound? This is what I mean by the title of this commentary: Checkbook Journalism & Leaking to the Highest Bidders.

For the past twelve years I have been known as one of the most notorious government whistleblowers, even given the title of The Most Classified Person in the History of the United States by a civil liberties organization. I am the founder and director of a whistleblower organization that includes over 150 national security whistleblowers. I have known and represented over 150 national security whistleblowing cases in Congress and the media. And let me tell you this, I have never seen a case that even comes close to this bizarrely unethical and despicable case.

A government whistleblower obtains over 50,000 pages of documents that implicate the government in severely illegal and unconstitutional practices. This whistleblower risks everything, including fleeing the country, in order to leak these documents and let the public know how its government has been breaking the nation’s laws and violating their rights. So he goes to another country and then entrusts all this evidence to a few reporters and wanna-be journalists. Why does he do that? He does it so that these reporters will present all this information to the public: not only those in the United States, but everyone all over the world. Think about it. Why else would someone risk everything, including his own life, to obtain and leak such documents? Are you thinking? Because what would be the point to all this, to taking all these risks, if 99% of these documents remain secret and hidden from the public? Ludicrous, right?
- See more at: http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2013/12/08/checkbook-journalism-leaking-to-the-highest-bidders/#sthash.d9zI5lI3.dpuf
 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
32. Glenn's book comes out on March 25th...I am sure he will insist that all negative reviews are the
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 11:57 AM
Feb 2014

work of the NSA targeting him.


Sibel is right on this. I think she's wrong and delusional on other things, but nothing erases the fact that Glenn is a pundit in the personal pay of a billionaire.

And check out the sexist rhetoric he uses against Sibel....

http://my.firedoglake.com/jpsottile/2013/12/11/twitter-hosts-epic-war-of-words-over-paypal-nsa-allegations/

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
35. Scooter Libby is equal to an Ellsberg, Manning, Snowden? Well now I understand completely where you
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 01:18 PM
Feb 2014

are coming from.

These heroes exposed Libby's Bosses crimes, and had they just been able to do it in 2004 there would not have been a voice raised against them here, they would have been treated the same way as Drake was back by the 'left'.

Libby unfortunately got away with protecting the War Criminals and they are not fond of Snowden for dragging some of their crimes against the people back into the public spotlight again. Maybe they should get used to it, people don't like to see war criminals get off scott free, except for those who support them of course.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
37. If that is what you think I think, I know from experience that you will not be persuaded....
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 01:24 PM
Feb 2014

Tell me...do you still think that Anwar Awlaki was a non-violent cleric who was preaching in the US 2 years before his death?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2030914&mesg_id=2031464

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
39. Were there charges filed against that American citizen? I can't judge anyone unless I see the
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 01:39 PM
Feb 2014

the charges, you know the way we usually, USED to do things here before Bush's criminal lawyers twisted the law to adjust to the 'new america'. Charges would have been nice, then evidence presented somewhere, a court of law would be preferable, and then a conviction. I still believe in the rule of law and never will support Bush's 'doctrine' that the US President has the powers of a king, to order the murder of anyone without even filing charges somewhere.

Thanks for reminding me of how work needs to be done in order to restore the rule of law to this country. It's not just the massive illegal spying on the American people.

Btw, remember the murder of the US teenager, what were the charges against him? His grandparents tried to find out, but there was to be no justice for them, at least up to now.

As for what I think of where you stand, THIS comment confirms my opinion of where you stand, your own words.

You support the unitary executive 'theory' NO?? Correct me if I am wrong AND you did compare those who EXPOSED Bush's crimes to the criminals themselves, did I misread your words?

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
40. I think you should start an OP about your favorite "non-violent cleric." Perhaps you could include
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 01:45 PM
Feb 2014

some his speeches from the 2009 sermons you think he did in this country.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
41. Speeches and sermons warrant the Death Penalty without charges, trial and/or conviction? Really?
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 02:02 PM
Feb 2014

We have a whole slew of tea baggers calling for revolution here. For the removal of this president from office. What you are saying is they too should be on a 'kill list'? I'm just trying to understand your position on the rule of law and on Bush's policies. This comment of yours refers to a citizen who was assassinated, and you appear to be justifying it by pointing to his speeches. I assume that you support the DP then without charges.

Sorry, that is a very dangerous path to go down imho and there is no way I supported it under Bush, before Bush or after Bush.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
42. Sabrina--I think you should totally start an OP for the purposes of exonerating
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 02:15 PM
Feb 2014

the man you call a "non-violent cleric."

And I totally want to hear what he had to say in the US in 2009.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
43. Did I misunderstand you regarding a President having the right to order the
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 02:43 PM
Feb 2014

killing of a US citizen without charge or trial? Did you support that under Bush because at least that would be consistent. I'm having a hard time getting a response but if that is your position, that making speeches and giving sermons warrants an order of the DP by the US President, so be it, I could not disagree with you more if I tried.

Btw, do you have some documentation of the charges against Awlaki? I'd like to review them to see exactly what he was charged with. But I've asked for that before, as have many, many people and have yet to see them. Or the charges against his teenaged son justifying his killing. I know it was called an 'accident' in which case I would have expected that his grand parents would have been compensate. Were they compensated? I don't recall that.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
44. Sabrina, I really think DU would benefit from an OP from you about your
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 03:01 PM
Feb 2014

"non-violent cleric." Seriously....can't wait to hear the 2009 material from America.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
46. So, there were no charges? I assume you would not try to avoid posting them if there were.
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 03:41 PM
Feb 2014

Which leads back to the ISSUE, are we now at a point in the US where Bush's 'theory' which we on the Left vehemently opposed, and most still do btw, where a US President has the powers of a King, remember back in those dark old days when Kings could order the death of someone who offended them without charges or trial, to simply put people on a secret 'kill list' then order their deaths without any charges filed, anywhere for the public to review, such as a Court of Law eg?

It appears there is now some support for Bush's policies regarding the powers of the US President to simply order someone killed without charges, even on the left.

How sad because we were depending on the left to be able to put a stop to those egregious policies. Still, I'm hopeful, there is growing concern now across the political spectrum for the lack of respect for the rule of law. Hopefully we can replace those in Congress who have either remained silent on these most important issues, or outwardly supported them.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
49. Thanks for your legal analysis. I like to be clear on where people stand on this issues.
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 04:12 PM
Feb 2014

That way I can judge whether I should give credence to their opinions on such matters. Thank you for clarifying.

hootinholler

(26,449 posts)
50. WOW. I think this might just go beyond the normal authoritarian schtick we get around here.
Fri Feb 28, 2014, 10:50 AM
Feb 2014
Had to go look it up.

Misanthropy is the general hatred, distrust or disdain of the human species or human nature. A misanthrope, or misanthropist is someone who holds such views or feelings. The word's origin is from Greek words ?ῖ??? (misos, "hatred&quot and ἄ??????? (anthrōpos, "man, human&quot . The condition is often confused with asociality.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
20. Behind the Curtain: Booz Allen Hamilton and its Owner, The Carlyle Group
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 11:11 AM
Feb 2014


Behind the Curtain: Booz Allen Hamilton and its Owner, The Carlyle Group

Written by Bob Adelmann
The New American; June 13, 2013

According to writers Thomas Heath and Marjorie Censer at the Washington Post, The Carlyle Group and its errant child, Booz Allen Hamilton (BAH), have a public relations problem, thanks to NSA leaker and former BAH employee Edward Snowden. By the time top management at BAH learned that one of their top level agents had gone rogue, and terminated his employment, it was too late.

For years Carlyle had, according to the Post, “nurtured a reputation as a financially sophisticated asset manager that buys and sells everything from railroads to oil refineries”; but now the light from the Snowden revelations has revealed nothing more than two companies, parent and child, “bound by the thread of turning government secrets into profits.”

And have they ever. When The Carlyle Group bought BAH back in 2008, it was totally dependent upon government contracts in the fields of information technology (IT) and systems engineering for its bread and butter. But there wasn't much butter: After two years the company’s gross revenues were $5.1 billion but net profits were a minuscule $25 million, close to a rounding error on the company’s financial statement. In 2012, however, BAH grossed $5.8 billion and showed earnings of $219 million, nearly a nine-fold increase in net revenues and a nice gain in value for Carlyle.

Unwittingly, the Post authors exposed the real reason for the jump in profitability: close ties and interconnected relationships between top people at Carlyle and BAH, and the agencies with which they are working. The authors quoted George Price, an equity analyst at BB&T Capital: "[Booz Allen has] got a great brand, they've focused over time on hiring top people, including bringing on people who have a lot of senior government experience." (Emphasis added.)

For instance, James Clapper had a stint at BAH before becoming the current Director of National Intelligence; George Little consulted with BAH before taking a position at the Central Intelligence Agency; John McConnell, now vice chairman at BAH, was director of the National Security Agency (NSA) in the ‘90s before moving up to director of national intelligence in 2007; Todd Park began his career with BAH and now serves as the country's chief technology officer; James Woolsey, currently a senior vice president at BAH, served in the past as director of the Central Intelligence Agency; and so on.

BAH has had more than a little problem with self-dealing and conflicts of interest over the years. For instance in 2006 the European Commission asked the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and Privacy International (PI) to investigate BAH’s involvement with President George Bush’s SWIFT surveillance program, which was viewed by that administration as “just another tool” in its so-called “War on Terror.” The only problem is that it was illegal, as it violated U.S., Belgian, and European privacy laws. BAH was right in the middle of it. According to the ACLU/PI report,

Though Booz Allen’s role is to verify that the access to the SWIFT data is not abused, its relationship with the U.S. Government calls its objectivity significantly into question. (Emphasis added.)

Among Booz Allen’s senior consulting staff are several former members of the intelligence community, including a former Director of the CIA and a former director of the NSA.


As noted by Barry Steinhardt, an ACLU director, “It’s bad enough that the [Bush] administration is trying to hold out a private company as a substitute for genuine checks and balances on its surveillance activities. But of all companies to perform audits on a secret surveillance program, it would be difficult to find one less objective and more intertwined with the U.S. government security establishment.” (Emphasis added.)

CONTINUED w Links n Privatized INTEL...

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/15696-behind-the-curtain-booz-allen-hamilton-and-its-owner-the-carlyle-group

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
29. Oh Yeah...the Tentacles of the NSA Enterprise & the Other Survellance Groups
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 11:44 AM
Feb 2014

are all reaching. And they go back to the huge and ever-growing Military/Media/Industrial/Banking Enterprise.

That there aren't more investigations and outrage is because it's been so downplayed and "propaganda/disinfo" by the clever MMIBE about Snowden being a "Russian Spy" and Greenwald being portrayed as a "money grubbing, fame seeking, hack (That meme is even seen around here at times.) Plus, the MSM doesn't report in depth the way sites like "Democracy Now" (rarely referenced here on DU) and some of the International and Indy US Media have reported. Add in that most Americans are working so hard and so stressed out they just can't get into what is such a complicated story that their MSM can't make more simple for them because they are involved themselves.

So...there's all that.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
36. Thanks Octafish for reminding us of what has become of our government now privatized to unethical,
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 01:24 PM
Feb 2014

profiteering warmongers.

In a real democracy, laws would prevent all these private war profiteers from ever getting close to the reigns of power because to anyone with the intelligence of a fly, the conflict of interest is so glaring.

The real question is, I know we expected this from Republicans, but why were so many of these war profiteers kept on once the people threw out Republicans? Wasn't that what we all worked so hard for?

And why has Clapper not been held accountable for his lies to Congress?

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
47. The timeline forgot this series from 2010, which is where I'd suggest everyone start
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 03:51 PM
Feb 2014
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/top-secret-america/articles/a-hidden-world-growing-beyond-control/

I posted it a few times, but discussion was scant at best...And LOL at how many people only woke up to the NSA issue when Snowden came on the scene; or Greenwald acting like none of the conventional US media had the stones to do any investigative reporting on the topic...

The information has long been out there in plain sight for anyone who had their eyes open...
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»It's a little sad, really...