Fuck you Delta Airlines

[edhopper]

Just received an email that their Miles Program is no longer based on miles flown, but on ticket cost. That's right, we are now penalized for getting better deals on tickets. And the elite assholes who can afford First Class, get added benefits because it's so fucking special to be rich.


It' the 1% World and we just live in it.

[jberryhill]

1. People who give them more money get more stuff?

Is that the idea?

[JI7]

2. can you explain how this works ?

how did it work before and how will it work now ?

i don't fly enough to ever get these type of cards but i would like to.

[edhopper]

5. It was that you get mileage credit for miles flown

Fly 1000 miles, get 1000 credits. Free flights are usually 25000 or 30000 miles.
Now it's the amount you pay for the ticket. So First Class and business class, the folks who can afford flying anytime, now get. ore credits for the same flights.

[yeoman6987]

19. It is also for people who book last minute

I am notorious for getting a ticket the day before my flight because I am a lazy ASS. Seriously, I am going to be late for my own funeral and I am not kidding. So for the slackers, it is a great deal.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

27. Check this out

http://www.airfareiq.com/

[yeoman6987]

37. That is really neat!

I even did a couple of samples at the site to see how it works. Thank you so much! You are going to save me a bundle. I appreciate it so much.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

41. Keep in mind...

...what Roland99 said. The airlines don't like practices like this and, if they find this when auditing your mileage account, they can subtract accrued miles, cancel preferred status and may boot you from their FF program altogether.

Read the rules: http://airfareiq.com/home/rules

No checked bags.
One way trips only.
Book through the airlines websites, no travel agents.
...


This practice isn't illegal but it violates the contract of carriage between yourself and the airline.

[Roland99]

40. Doing that you run the risk of being booted from an airline's FF program & forfeiting all miles.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

43. true

But flying to Atlanta I save between $190 - $245. For me it's worth not getting the miles.

[snooper2]

53. you know it makes sense, never even thought about that

Been reading that link for 30 minutes now LOL


I love this part-



"Complete text of American Airline's statement on Legality of Hidden City tickets:

Let me take the opportunity to clarify American Airlines position on hidden city or point beyond ticketing. Purchasing a ticket to a point beyond the actual destination and getting off the aircraft at the connecting point is unethical. It is tantamount to switching price tags to obtain a lower price on goods sold at department stores. Passengers who attempt to use hidden city tickets may be denied boarding, have the remainder of their ticket confiscated and may be assessed the difference between the fare paid and the lowest applicable fare.

Because we compete with other airlines with different route structures, we sometimes find it necessary to give a traveler who is traveling beyond a connecting point a better price than travelers who are just traveling to the connecting point. For example, a passenger who is traveling to Austin, Texas from Los Angeles can go on one airline via Phoenix for a price that is lower than the cost of traveling on American between Los Angeles and Dallas. If we want to offer the same price to Austin as the other airline, but the only way we can get travelers there is via Dallas, we find ourselves charging the Austin passengers less than the Dallas passengers.

Although the issuance and usage of hidden city tickets is not illegal in the sense that one could be fined or sent to jail by the government, it is unethical and a breach of a passengers contract with AA. Both tariff rule 100AA and American's Condition of Carriage, which are incorporated into every ticket sold by American as part of our agreement to carry the passenger named on the ticket, bar hidden city ticketing. In addition, it violates the agencies' contract to act as an agent for American Airlines.

If American Airlines continues to lose revenue as a result of hidden city transactions, the fares we charge must inevitably rise."

[A HERETIC I AM]

56. You know, in many ways an airliner is similar to a tractor trailer....

In that they are both most efficiently and profitably operated when they are fully loaded and moving their respective loads.

So, in spite of your ROFL smiley, I sympathize with the airlines in this regard.

It is often lamented on DU the fact the good paying Union jobs are on the decline in this country. A fair portion of this phenomena can be attributed to the American consumers passion for a bargain.

In spite of what many may think, airlines very often run on a razor thin margin. I saw a special that indicated an AA flight that was almost fully booked made something like $125 after fuel, salaries and maintenance were calculated.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

62. If by "efficiently" you mean...

...most profitably then I'd say no. An airliner will generate no less profit flying with empty seats as long as the seats have been sold.

For example, an airline flies from PHL-ATL and usually charges ~ $325 for the fare. The same airline flies PHL-ATL-MYR for $81. They could argue that they're trying to remain competitive with another airline that offers ACY-MYR (non-stop) for $64. However, an airline different from either of those 2 offers a TTN-ATL for $109 that they chose not to compete with.

The airline we're discussing flies 15,000 flights per day. At $125 x 15,000 that's close to $1.9 million over direct operating costs. A company I used to work for rented 3 (13 floor) and 1 (7 floor) office buildings across from LAX for $2.2 million a month. $56 million a month rents a lot of space, pays a lot of overhead and still allows for profit.

Add fees for checked bags, "economy plus" seats, priority boarding, inflight internet, $8 sandwiches or beer and $200 (+ fare difference) to switch a flight to the following day and, trust me, they should be doing fine.

Competition is good. Level the field so the paying customers have a shot as well.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

64. Good one: "switching price tags"

Actually it's like buying a 2 liter bottle for $1.49 and pouring some into a 16 oz cup and leaving the rest of the bottle behind rather than paying $1.88 for the same size drink.

[EX500rider]

71. Yeah i don't their argument either..

.....the plane will be cheaper to operate the lighter it gets.....they'd save more money if everybody got off at the 1st stop even if they flew on....plus I bet they could sell some last min seats at the counter if they hustled and did a head check before takeoff....maybe carry-on only people who wouldn't slow the departure too much.

[seattledo]

3. It's been that way for years with their "Medalian Qualification" miles

I've flown about once a month on Delta since I got my job four years ago. I still have never gotten anything for free. Not even an upgrade. The mileage programs are a scam. I'm still only 1/4 of the way to my goal of a ticket to Miami around Christmas after making about 70 flights.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

72. Are you certain that...

...your skymiles number is being attached to all your reservation? IIRC no flight earns less than 500 miles. 500 x 70 gives 35,000 miles. 25,000 is the usual number of miles needed for a free RT ticket.

[seattledo]

75. Minimum is 60,000 miles for the one personal trip I take per year.

The distance of my most common flight is 678 miles between SFO and SEA. That means I have to fly 88 times just to get a single free ticket. Given that most people have never gotten a single thing free from airline miles, I think they're dishonest.

[Egalitarian Thug]

4. Quit being a sucker. n/t

[edhopper]

6. not the point /nt

[Egalitarian Thug]

7. Totally the point. The only point for most, if not all of your life.

That you do enough business with Delta, a prime example of the corporate parasite model for decades, to get the notice is clear evidence that you have been a quality mark.

[edhopper]

8. You make a lot of assumptions about me

All of them wrong. But why should that stop you from spouting off.

[Egalitarian Thug]

9. Sure, 'cause Delta just sent that out to the hundreds of millions of people that don't

fly with them.

You seem to be under the impression that I give a shit about you or what you do as an individual. I don't. Not at all.

What is relevant is for the people reading this to see you evade and hopefully to think about what they do that supports the problem that plagues us all.

[snooper2]

55. WTH are you going on about?

If you are on a "miles" program with an airline of course they will have a valid email to send to participants

lighten up LOL


This will help you!
hit play!

[Travis_0004]

10. Why wouldn't delta make the change?

Sure if it pisses off a lot of people, I can see them not doing it, but don't you think somebody paying 2,000 for a plane ticket should get more rewards than somebody paying 500.00?

[seattledo]

11. Then don't be disingenuous and call them miles (ntxt)

[blueamy66]

74. That's why they're changing the program.

nt

[CFLDem]

12. Well if you really want a good deal on flights

go to work for an airline.

[MADem]

13. Well, apparently that model is going to spread to other airlines, per the morning news.

These programs are becoming unsustainable because people who are in on the program buy those super cheap, fill the plane, fifty nine dollar flights and fly around not because they need to go anywhere, but just to get the miles. The people who are gaming the system are the ones who have created this change.

Personally, I think that people who pay more should get more benefits. It's not a "one percent" world, it's actually fair. You get out of the program what you put into the program.

[dsc]

14. why is buying a ticket the airlines voluntarily sells you gaming the system?

[MADem]

15. Some people don't =need= to travel anywhere.

They buy a cheap round trip ticket and just fly around to get miles. They have no purpose at the destination, they're just doing it to acquire "points" to qualify for free goodies.

This kind of shit is "planet unkind." If you need to put down your carbon bigfoot by flying around, it should be for a purpose.

Delta may be doing this to save money and keep their perks program sustainable for the vast majority of users, but so what? It's a private company and they can do what they want. People who don't like them are free to go with another airline, that will do the same thing, most likely.

[penultimate]

25. What kind of deals could they get from the airline miles programs

that they couldn't just buy with the money they'd save from not buying useless tickets?

[MADem]

28. A valid question. Some people, though, enjoy the whole Quest For Miles nonsense.

They get the credit cards that add the miles, they buy everything from chewing gum to groceries with the card, kiting all their purchases, down to the most personal items, through the corporate prism of a credit card, which allows them to be profiled and targeted for promotions, all to take a trip to Orlando on a non--blackout day.

Seems a bit silly to me. I fly often enough, but I don't bother with that foolishness. I fly off-peak and look for bargains when I can.

I really wish the government would pump up the volume on AMTRAK. Taking some of the older sleeper cars and converting them into "pet apartments" that owners could rent (You must keep your pet in the compartment; here are your wee wee pads and poop bags, which may be deposited in the containers by the baggage car...) to travel with Fluffy and Fido would probably bring in as much revenue as legalizing weed did for Colorado. People love trains, people love pets. Why are they kept apart? I'd pay USURIOUSLY for this option...

[penultimate]

48. Interesting... I've never used credit cards much because I never liked

the thought of knowing I had that hovering my head and would have to deal with it toward the end of the month. Can't say the rewards seem worth it to me. Although, I do enjoy earning points on my bank card for using it on stuff I'd usually use it on anyway.

I would take trains for pleasure trips too if they were actually affordable. The only way I'd pay a lot for a train trip is if the train trip could be considered part of the vacation, and it had whatever amenities to make it feel like it. The idea of paying more money to take what essentially is an extremely plane ride doesn't appeal to most.

[MADem]

54. I would love to rent a sleeper on a train and have my dogs with me.

That, to me, would be a perfect trip! Relax, eat in the dining car, go see a film at night, look out the window at the scenery, go to sleep to the clack of the rails...I enjoy that kind of thing. I can't fit two big assed terriers under a plane seat, so when we go somewhere with them, we bite the bullet and drive. They're very well behaved and they could deal with the changes in venue so long as they had family nearby.

[Art_from_Ark]

33. Good question

[Roland99]

39. Often it's done as a Mileage Run

Say someone is about 5,000 miles shy of the next FF tier. They'll look for cheap, multi-stop flights to rack up enough miles before the end of the year to hit that next level (which comes w/better odds at complimentary upgrades to First Class, travel vouchers or 20k-25k FF miles, etc.)

[penultimate]

49. Ahhh. That makes sense.

Well, sort of. I don't know if I'd be willing to spend the money and time toward it.

[Roland99]

52. Well, if one is Platinum and close to making Diamond, there are big benefits

as a Platinum, one can get either a $200 travel voucher or 20,000 SkyMiles (and higher up on the complimentary upgrade list)

Making Diamond then adds on another choice of a $250 voucher or 25,000 SkyMiles (and even higher up on the complimentary upgrade list). Plus, free access to Delta's SkyClubs.

[Egalitarian Thug]

17. Utter horseshit. How can you so consistently reach exactly the wrong conclusion every damned time?

The morons that run the airline industry instituted the programs to attract travelers to their business. What they failed to account for, as always, is the indisputable fact that almost everybody on the planet is smarter than they are.

You can't sell the confidence schemes they want to run when your marks are better at it than you are. This is, as is almost everything in business today, about a small group of parasites working to maintain a system that lets them stay incomprehensibly rich while contributing nothing.

[MADem]

21. OK, you rude know-it-all, you....we'll see who's "right" in the end.

What's parasitical about giving away free trips based on brand loyalty? The airlines have a few tiers--the first rate, getting fewer and fewer, who don't give many bargains, the mid-grade, with nominal amenities and good safety records, and the bargain brands, which are like flying buses.

Check in and let us all know how your hectoring protests on the flight line for your free miles works out...."miles to the people, right on!"

[Egalitarian Thug]

26. Thank you very much for cementing my point.

[MADem]

30. Well, I didn't do that, but thanks for playing.

If you want to believe .... you go right ahead now!!!

[Egalitarian Thug]

35. Yep, you totally did. The fact that you don't see that you did only further demonstrates

the effectiveness and ease with which the con-men play you, and so many others, all day long, every damned day, only to have you come back and ask them where it all went wrong.

It would simply be sad if not for the fact that there are so many of you out there making it so easy for them to do it, that it is a burden on the rest of us.

[MADem]

59. Get over yourself--Egalitarian? You're an Elitist Thug, angry because

it's going to be harder for you to get your upgrades to First Class off of cheap tickets!

Suck it up--you going to have to deal with the "You get what you pay for" reality, and ya know what else? Yelling at ME because "Waaaaah, you aren't gonna get 'miles' anymore" isn't going to change a damn thing. Join the real world, pal.

Give up the mileage programs altogether, and fly with the sweaty masses on Southwest or Jet Blue. You'll probably end up spending less if you plan your trips appropriately. It's a PLANE ride--like a bus ride, only in the air. Not a "flying experience." Talk about someone who was conned, you, quite evidently, based on your wet-hen-ire, were conned into believing you were special because you had miles! Well, I guess they showed YOU!

I'll bet you make those poor flight attendants earn every lousy dime they make.



Waaah!

[Sailingdiver]

16. They are all the same

United, or as I prefer, Untied is exactly the same.

[geomon666]

18. It's a big club and you ain't in it!

[Egalitarian Thug]

29. And when confronted by the big guy at the door, the one that tells them they

are not going to get in, they turn around and blame the crowd behind the velvet rope for their lack of membership as is so ably demonstrated up-thread.

[AZ Mike]

20. Are they obligated to engage in rewards programs?

No.

They do it to be competitive, build brand loyalty, and to gain marginal profits.

I am not sure why you are so upset.

[MADem]

31. There's an angry poster on this thread who sure thinks so!

How DARE they not give me the same amount of free stuff as previously!!!!

[HangOnKids]

65. Hey Mikey You Are Right They Aren't Obligated To Do Shit

But WHEN they offer a rewards program and then change the fucking parameters there is a problem. You sound like a new Biz graduate, have a shiny new degree?

[AZ Mike]

66. Then certainly....

....you must be able to point to some breach in a contractual agreement, huh?

A rewards program is a voluntary grant to customers. If it does not satisfy your expectations of the brand, then find a new brand to engage in commerce with.

This is a true mountain-molehill scenario, but don't let me get in the way of your (and the OP's) consternation and utter disappointment....

[HangOnKids]

67. Yep new Biz grad

A voluntary grant to customers? Is let them eat cake next Mikey?

[jberryhill]

76. So, a rewards program can never change?

And they should have the same one they had in 1985 or something?

I understand the suckage, but when you sign up for these things there are a lot of asterisks - all to the effect of "as long as we feel like it". I'm not an obsessive "terms of service" reader myself, but I got that impression from the asterisks alone.

It's an airline, not a spouse. They didn't promise me a lifetime of happiness.

[FarCenter]

22. Southwest Airlines rewards are based on dollars spent

Earn points for every dollar you spend.

The amount of your fare now determines how many points you earn. And since you can also earn points with our Partners, that reward flight won't be far behind.

http://www.southwest.com/rapidrewards/about

Travel credit cards and points earned for hotel stays are based on dollars spent.

[MADem]

32. Jet Blue does the same thing--it's based on MONEY, not miles.

You get "points" based on your cash outlay.

Earn points on flights
Earn 3 points per dollar spent.
And if you book a flight on jetblue.com,
earn double with 6 points per dollar.

[joeglow3]

23. First world problems

Seriously, a company give more free "rewards" to someone who spends more money with them. You honestly think that is unreasonable?

[GoneOffShore]

24. They're not after your business. Unless you fly business.

Even with the plane full, your economy ticket is giving them less revenue than a business class ticket.

And "Frequent flyer" miles are the most inflated currency in the world right now.

[Blue_Tires]

50. +1

[Art_from_Ark]

34. The new milage system will go into effect on January 1, 2015

So there are about 10 more months left for the old milage system.

http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/skymiles/2015-skymiles-program.html

[Turbineguy]

36. Actually,

you already get double miles flying in 1st class. This may actually have the effect of making more low cost seats available.

[badtoworse]

45. I do a lot of long flights and can fly First Class on business.

I only get a 50% bonus from United. Who's giving double miles for First Class?

[Turbineguy]

57. I seem to recall Delta doubling the miles.

But it's been a while....

[badtoworse]

58. Thanks, I'll look into it.

Problem is that Newark is a major United hub and it's usually a lot more convenient to use them.

[jberryhill]

78. Hub hostages are another reason for changing the program

I believe it must be a criminal offense of some kind to fly out of Philadelphia on anything other than USAirways. As airlines have consolidated to dominate various hubs, damn near everyone in that city who flies becomes an elite tier member in short order.

[badtoworse]

79. "Hub hostage" - I never heard that one, but it it's 100% accurate.

[Roland99]

38. MQMs aren't changing so elite status will be unaffected

It's the redeemable miles.

Yes, if you buy T, V, X fares you'll take a sizeable hit on bonuses if one is a Gold, Platinum or Diamond but Delta certainly has the right (as this move appears to be) to start lowering the number of award seats on flights.

It has the effect of rewarding those who purchase higher-class fares (as I often do as my travel is often book 1-2 weeks out). I'll actually come out with even more miles under the new rules.

You can look to flying with the new AA/USAirways, go with Southwest/Airtran or even w/United. But, don't be surprised to see the other major carriers doing something to further devalue miles or reducing award seats (Southwest already devalued their miles recently)

[Xyzse]

42. My beef with them is their bad service.

I don't mind the miles too much, and because a lot of my flights are last minute, it helps.

However, the times I actually try to use my miles, is dumb as heck.

[Phentex]

70. That was mine, too...

I gave up trying to redeem for flights. Now I just get merchandise or gift cards.

[badtoworse]

44. First Class has always gotten more miles than Coach

At least that is true with United and, prior to the merger, with Continental The bonus is 50% more miles for a First Class ticket. You're spending a lot more money; you should get more miles.

[MadrasT]

46. I actually fly a lot of short flights that cost a lot of $$ (when you look a cost per mile flown)

Works out better for me. It's like the first time in the history of Delta they have made a change to their program that benefits me instead of screwing me.

[MineralMan]

47. Airline miles programs were always based on the

fact that most flights had empty seats. These days, that's not the case. The airlines, through consolidation, have reduced the number of flights to and from most airports to the level that produces full planes, with paid for seats on more and more flights.

There's no percentage any more in giving away seats to frequent flyers. So, they're making it harder and harder for people to get those free flights.

Airlines don't want to fill seats with non-paying customer, and they're not as competitive as they once were, due to consolidation. So, the days of bagging free flights are pretty much over for the typical non-business flyer.

That's how it is. That's how it's going to continue to be.

[MADem]

60. What's interesting is that if I shop around, I can fly round trip to

Kingston, Jamaica for the SAME price I paid in the early, regulated 1970s. The seats aren't as comfortable, you don't get a hot meal, there's no smoking on the plane (fine with me), but I am amazed (and pleased) that the prices haven't kept pace with inflation. I guess reducing the weight of the seats and replacing components with lighter weight ones has kept the situation in check.

[MineralMan]

61. Yes, shopping for good fares pays off.

I don't fly to Jamaica, but I fly to LAX fairly often. The range of prices is remarkable. I try to go when one of the airlines announces a $99 each way fare sale. My schedule is flexible.

[lunatica]

51. Yeah, I heard that on one of the MSNBC shows

I think one airline is still giving miles for miles flied. Could be United.

[Laelth]

63. k&r for exposure. n/t

-Laelth

[KamaAina]

69. And you too, American. With a pineapple. Sideways.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/american-airlines-cancels-bereavement-fares-144313002.html

American Airlines no longer offers emergency or bereavement fares, it announced quietly on its website, adding that it does "offer customers flexible fare options when booking last minute travel for a variety of reasons."

The new policy took effect February 18. According to Travelocity blog The Window Seat, the American's old policy had a fixed, reduced price for each route, and passengers could change their flight as needed. Back in 2004, SmarterTravel found a $40 difference between an American Airlines bereavement fare and the lowest online fare.

[edhopper]

73. My OP was about

Delta sticking it to the avg flyer. IMO

But this is just dickish beyond decency. A Giant Steaming FU to American.

[TroglodyteScholar]

77. I know, it's a steaming load of horseshit.

Those motherfuckers are cheap as cheap gets.

[trocar]

80. Stuff

I just use my miles (UAL) to get stuff, just got a great Celestron telescope