Pot smokers have said forever "Make it legal, tax it, and we'll be glad to pay!" Well,

[ChisolmTrailDem]

Colorado is now reaping the rewards of legal weed to the tune of a projected $25million for the first year.

Congratulations, Colorado!

[Eleanors38]

1. Care should be taken to keep taxes reasonable...

lest the same mistakes are made with the new tobacco prohibition effort, and the black market expands massively.

[robinlynne]

8. where is this black market for tobacco? I need to find it!

[Warpy]

39. It's in semis hauling cartons of butts from NC

so the mob can stick fake NYC tax stamps on the packs and sell them at a hair below NYC prices.

Been like that forever, mob's been making a fortune off a legal drug.

[TeamPooka]

89. and Florida too.

[raven mad]

96. Tell 'em to come up here once in a while -

we have the highest tobacco/liquor/sin tax in the US!

[Warpy]

99. Hey, you don't get the price break

Stores do. Then they sell it to you at the usual price. The mob wins, the stores win, the state loses and so do you.

[raven mad]

100. Rats.

I was looking forward to the "back of the semi" sales!

[Warpy]

104. Nah, you might as well quit and breathe fresh air.

For the time being, it's free.

[raven mad]

105. I've tried. 17 times, actually.

The first time, my mom went out and bought a pack.

Now, I'm using it less, enjoying it less and yes, it's helping kill me.

[Warpy]

106. Some people can't quit

I've seen fellow nurses really struggle with it.

Switching to e-cigs can reduce the damage somewhat, although you'll still be getting the nasty nicotine.

Good luck, tobacco addiction is a real stinker in more ways than one.

[raven mad]

107. And e-cigs have been reported to be worse than the real thing.

So, damned if you do, damned if you don't.

My Aunt Lib (I miss her) smoked until she died. At age 95, in 2005. Unfiltered Camels. So, who knows? It's the additives, and I've switched to the more-expensive, non-additive, but still smoke. I was in the hospital for 9 days (unrelated), no smoking, etc. Got out. First thing I did? Lit one.

[Warpy]

108. I don't think anything is worse than sucking concentrated smoke into your lungs

and I've seen people with e cigs start to taper the nicotine down without realizing it, since they only need 2 or 3 drags to kill the craving instead of compulsively smoking a cigarette down to the filter because the damned things are so costly.

It's all poison, of course, but some delivery methods are worse than others.

I think the people blasting e cigs are confusing them with hookahs, which are much, much worse than cigarettes.

[raven mad]

109. Mine have a tendency to burn out.

I light it. I smoke a drag or two or three. Then it just goes.....bye bye. The expense is what wore me down to saving the "butts" for when I can't afford a pack! Seriously - I have friends who save the leavings to roll their own when they can't afford to buy that v. say, cat food or dog food. Yes, it's a worse addiction than heroin - and it's legal. "They" make it illegal? Sorry - it'll probably be cartel time for us smokers!

[Warpy]

110. Uh, I've seen Jonesing smokers clawing through the coffee grounds and orange peels at 3 AM

looking for something they can get a drag or two from. It's not pretty.

It's also why anyone who suggests making it illegal gets laughed at. A lot.

It seems like you are a light enough smoker to benefit greatly from e cigs or other alternatives like patches, lozenges, or gum. You'd feel a hell of a lot better and it would be cheaper.

[raven mad]

112. I've tried patches, lozenges, gum and...........

WHEN I could afford it, that weird drug doctors prescribe..........something like Wellbutrin (which sucks, a doc put me on it in 1984 and I was sick as a dog, and quit after a couple days)........and costs $500 a month OVER insurance, because insurance companies don't pay for stop-smoking apparatus.

Funny, they'll pay millions to keep you alive with lung cancer, heart disease, etc. But try to stop with a drug? Not. Covered. Seriously, I called and asked. Begged, actually.

I don't smoke inside a house, car, restaurant, etc. I smoke outside, only. Which can be a little inconvenient at 40 below. I want to quit. I can't. I've tried.

We ride motorcycles. You can't smoke on a bike (well, you CAN, but it's not easy) and we usually do 300 to 400 miles a day. I won't smoke around anyone who can't stand it. I smoke outdoors, and have never, ever left a butt in a campground, on the road, or anywhere else. They go in the trash, and here? That means throwing them in with used motor oil, air conditioning fixers, etc. I don't mind that.

Ask if Obamacare pays for whatever drugs you need to quit. Nope. Tried that, too, and it would have cost about $300 a month more than what I pay now......... i.e., about the same.

Yes, tobacco as it is, should not be outlawed. It's a plant. Tobacco as it is manufactured and sold by corporations? Outlaw the shit!

[progressoid]

43. "Easier than dealing drugs..."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129934561

Investigators say the penalties for trafficking in black-market cigarettes are at most only about five years in prison compared with mandatory sentences for illegal drugs that carry a base line term of five or 10 years behind bars.

Fairfax County's Wilson says cigarettes are in some cases worth more money to criminals than illegal drugs. Undercover officers, he says, have "even been able to trade large amounts of illicit drugs for the cigarettes."

For instance, the ATF and Virginia police broke up a smuggling ring last winter where traffickers traded cocaine, thousands of Ecstacy tablets and firearms for nearly 400,000 cartons of cigarettes. The cigarettes were worth more than $8 million on the black market.

Investigators say they expect to see more of those schemes as long as the benefits of trafficking cigarettes outweigh the risks.

[Egalitarian Thug]

55. California. Illinois. New York, to name three n/t

[belcffub]

59. Its huge off the indian res south of here

In New York... With something like a $5 difference per pack there is alot of money to be made... I stop in for gas and see people loading the car with 50-100 cases... don't think its just for them...

[Egalitarian Thug]

69. And those are the amateurs. The Michiganders with rowboats during Prohibition.

It's big and growing every day, thanks to the morons that believe their convenience is paramount.

[small D democrat]

60. You can't be looking very hard.

I like to call tobacco taxes, please excuse the indelicacy, "hand jobs to the Russian mob".

Start by Googling: tax free tobacco.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

66. Sorry,...no king sized Kents....

[Eleanors38]

71. Google "tobacco product smuggling" and take your pick...

I saw a report (can't remember what network) which contended nearly Half of NYC cigarette sales were now through the black market. Locally? I don't know; I stick with the now-illegal stuff.

[jtuck004]

22. WA State is already screwing this up with their phony legislative efforts. Worthless efforts by

people who clearly have no idea what they are dealing with or what to do, apparently only pretending to listen to voters, it seems.

One might say I shouldn't be hard on them. YOU are working hard every day paying these people to do a job - and this is what you get? Are your standards really this low? Do YOU get away with such pathetic effort and expect your boss to keep giving you money?

The stores are projected to sell an 1/8 of an ounce for $70 to $90. To whom? You can get it on the street today for $25 to $40 - what would possess someone other than a working white guy to go pay that? On the other hand sales of light bulbs and dirt are "growing" fast. Now I see why the lines of buyers in CO looked like a bunch of aging hippies who were AT the concerts in the 60's. It's a novelty now, but over the long term no one else can afford the prices. Besides, EVERYONE else has their own sources.

Hey lawmakers. I know you don't see it now, but this is really going to boost the black market in the state and nearby areas, exponentially. Thank you for that. I wonder how many of your unemployed kids, looking for a job, will find their calling trimming the nice buds of the local grow meister? That will be an interesting raid...

The legislators see the sales of light bulbs and dirt, and since it would be impossible to regulate those, they have made home growing illegal, unless you hold a medical marijuana card (mmj). Hey legislators - FUCK YOU - Come and get us. I dare you. I double dog dare you, you little turds. You will BREAK YOUR STATE BUDGET trying - you know it and we know it. Because you will have to visit every house in the state, look in every closet and basement. And you will then need to do it again next month. It would cost you billions to enforce that while you can't even get enough money for schools, bridges are falling, more people are needing government assistance than have in a long time. Thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of people are growing this stuff in every nook and cranny. You may fool some people by taking a few people to jail (what does anyone want to bet that they are predominately black, or low income?) for having a couple or 10 plants, but while you are doing that anyone with an IQ over 70 will know that thousands upon thousands of people are turning their lights on for the next 12 hour cycle, and they will repeat it a half dozen times every year, and you will NEVER, EVER catch them, except by stumbling over them in your drunken stupor. Or maybe it is just to keep a small flow of non-violent prisoners coming in so someone can profit from them. You taking payoffs from someone?

Hint: Just make it legal to grow a couple of plants. People are going to anyway, and this way they are going to learn to disrespect you and the law.

Even with an mmj card, they have now lowered the number of plants one can grow to 6 from 15, ostensibly to limit competition with their state-approved stores. LOL. Enforce that, go ahead. Get warrants to break in on sick people and count their plants. You will look like the idiots you are. A few videos after that people will begin to realize that we aren't threatened by sick people, and you will start to look like monsters.

Looking forward to when you bring your little brochure by and ask for my vote, Assuming you don't have to wait to long for the coal trains and oil sludge trains bringing hazardous materials through and interrupting our traffic for jobs on the other side of the state.

[brett_jv]

85. So ... are the lawmakers requiring prices of $70-90 per 1/8th in the stores?

I'm just asking, I have no idea either way.

But I will say ... if the lawmakers are not the ones setting those high (get it?) prices ... then your post doesn't make that much sense(milla) to me.

Don't get me wrong, I think everyone should be able to grow at least a reasonable-sized personal stash, but ... unless the legislators are dictating those prices, I'm having a hard time understanding your assertion of cause/effect here.

[jtuck004]

88. The stores aren't open yet, so this is just gleaned from writings about it, but it appears that

25% taxes are driving the price this high, along with the increased costs of overhead for and other regulations designed to force people into their model, such as growing restrictions on medical marijuana patients, the complete ban (laughable) on growing any personal weed, changed to accommodate the stores, etc.

Why not 8% or so like everything else that is sold? Why reduce competition and drive up prices? Why write laws that teach people to ignore the law?

My point is that all these people aren't just going to start smoking weed because this came about - they already are. They have their distribution networks, prices already set, etc. Suddenly the state licenses stores but their taxes and mandates and policies drive the price up, and they think everyone is going to flock to them?

People buying from a store aren't going to suddenly walk across the street to a store that is charging 40% or 50% more than they could get their products for elsewhere, with the minor inconvenience that their old place is illegal but now stands even less of a chance of ever getting busted.

We will see, but I think they won't get the results they could, and that's just bad business and wasted effort.

[boblgumm]

90. 104% tax and three profit margins are why prices will be double to triple in WA

The grower, the processor and the retailer all add 25 percent tax plus their margins. The retailer adds an additional aprox. 9 percent state/local sales tax. Twenty-five percent compounded three times is 95 percent (1.25 x 1.25 x 1.25 = 1.953). Add the sales tax and you have 104 percent tax. If the processor and the retailer each add margins of, let's say, 30 percent, you can add another 60 percent to the price. Here is how that would play out. Grower sells $100 of weed to processor for $125. Processor adds 25 percent tax and 30 percent margin to his price to the retailer. We are now at $193.75. Retailer adds 30 percent margin, 25 percent state tax, 9 percent sales tax for an out the door price of 317.75. If those two margins are 50 percent, instead, the price becomes $402.50.

[yeoman6987]

103. I agree with you on the pot

Taxes should be taxed for sure but keep it in a limit as to encourage pot purchasers to keep buying from the stores instead of out on the street like before.

[Eleanors38]

113. It's good sense, but prohis don't have much good sense.

High taxes are not just a means to raise $, but a failed means of social control. So even those who "support" legalization get caught up in the tax scheme, and work their way back toward the effects if prohibition. That's why tobacco is developing the deep international roots of prohibitionism this very moment. The reason? High taxes.

[loudsue]

2. The states that legalize it first will have the benefit of industry, as well.

There will be large farm operation companies come in to grow it and supply it to neighboring states when it becomes legal there. The early birds will be the ones to benefit from the start-up successful farm operations growing the most popular weed.

It seems to me that state legislatures would do well to see the writing on the wall, and just go ahead and legalize it already. It's going to come.

[tridim]

7. And the people (with great skills) who happen to live in illegal states...

Can't even legally prepare for legalization in the future. It's maddening, to me at least.

Something has to give, very soon. Give us a timeline at least, Feds.

[Jesus Malverde]

3. What is interesting is the governor has recently been quoted as advising other governors

not to try colorado experiment. I suspect they want to keep Colorado's local monopoly. You know they are blowing it up on the borders selling to people from out of state.

John Hickenlooper, Colorado Governor, Discourages Other States From Legalizing Pot

People are HAPPY to pay for good cannabis bought in a safe environment free of other drugs and criminal elements.

[mopinko]

29. plus the pot tourism.

people i know with nnooooo reason to go to colorado are on the plane already.

[Cha]

53. Oh yes, I can imagine.. the unique "pot tourism"..

This summer!

[beveeheart]

65. I have lived in Colorado 24 years and in all that time

my brother-in-law has been here one time. He now says that he plans to visit this summer. And do I think that he'll be a pot tourist? Yes, I do. He was amazed when I told him that I was approved for a medical marijuana license due to pain from spinal stenosis.

[Timez Squarez]

70. yep. Spinal stenosis sufferer here.

I use indica and it really works.

My favorite is the San Fernando Valley OG.

[wocaonimabi]

4. Which ever state in the North East Legalizes First is going to make a killing.

The first state will make more money then Colorado.

Every Statehouse in the North East is discussing legalizalation right now.

The only question is who will be first?

[Jamastiene]

64. There is a way to have it as a nationwide referrendum, isn't there?

Why not let the whole country vote it in at once? I think it would pass with flying colors. That would speed things up even more. Or can we do that?

If I had my say so, I would want it to become an amendment, as in, a right.

[jeff47]

72. Nope.

There is no such referendum mechanism in the US Constitution.

[Jamastiene]

75. That sucks.

It also means we should all send our Congresscritters the picture that was posted on here a few weeks back of all that money made on the first day pot was legal in Colorado. That will get their attention. They answer to money. There is money in legalizing and taxing marijuana. So, point that out to them maybe?

[hedgehog]

5. I would far rather see NYS legalize pot instead of allowing 6 casinos to be built upstate.

I don't know that legal pot causes any damage,but legalized gambling certainly does!

[grahamhgreen]

15. +1. Gambling (losing) destroys families.

[hedgehog]

20. It doesn't do much for the neighborhoods, either!

[grahamhgreen]

48. In some countries the casino profits go into the general fund.

[pipi_k]

27. Well, to be fair...

all of the "vices" cause damage.

Gambling, whether it's at a casino, or via lottery tickets.

Drinking...bars and liquor stores

Uncontrolled shopping...there are stores everywhere...down the street...at the mall...online...

Overeating (obesity)...all-you-can-eat buffets. Fast food places "super sizing" their meals.


We can't point the finger of blame at just one thing that damages Society and families.

[hedgehog]

28. I think it's a matter of frequency, severity and consequences

I think low level gambling (bingo, some lottery tickets) can be relatively harmless. I'm not sure about Quick draw tickets, and I know slot machines and casino gambling tends to make some people blow through more than they can afford very quickly.

[Doctor_J]

95. The instances of people going broke from smoking pot are miniscule

gambling, not so much

[Romulox]

6. Like casinos, many states will be afraid to miss out on the gold rush. nt

[Donald Ian Rankin]

11. What, $5 per capita? N.T.

[Romulox]

12. You forget the massive savings--no incarceration, prosecution, or interdiction costs.

The cumulative effect amounts to many times $5 per capita.

[A Simple Game]

42. I was wondering when someone would state the real benefits. Not to mention

that society in general will benefit as a whole.

We may also see the slowing or hopefully reversal of the militarization of our police from having less money for toys and special units.

[Romulox]

56. You can't put a price on a society based on justice, rationality and fair play. nt

[Lobo27]

9. What we need is a massive state to make it legal...

I think if NY, CA or TX make it legal, the rest of the nation will follow suit without much question. IMO

[mopinko]

30. illinois.

unless some thug wins the governors race, which aint happnin, i think we will move on this. chicago wants the tourism. bad.

[AllyCat]

57. And Wisconsin will continue its downward spiral

But it would make things safer for my family still living in a town torn by drug gangs.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

10. A whole $5 per capita! The economy is saved!

I'm in favour of legalising cannabis, but I don't think this is a strong argument for it.

If you want to make a financial argument for it, look at the money saved from not prosecuting users - it wouldn't surprise me if that were a genuinely meaningful amount. But this isn't, on a national scale.

[Romulox]

13. See above. Your missing a few things. nt

[Donald Ian Rankin]

14. See above. You're the one missing a few things... N.T.

[Romulox]

17. What an argument. Hats off to you. nt

[Iggo]

19. Nuh-uh. You!

[ChisolmTrailDem]

16. First, I'm not offering an "argument". Second,

...you would benefit from sparking up a bowl and chillaxing for a little bit.

[Ohio Joe]

18. Where are you getting that number from?

I think the last estimate I saw was 98 million for the state... That is first years estimate and is not counting the various county taxes that will be collected no the saving from crime reduction... How do you come up with $5 per capita?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

36. The OP.

The OP says $25,000,000, and I'm dividing that by 5,000,000, which wikipedia gives as the population of colorado.

Even if it were $100,000,000, as you say, that's still only $20 a head.

The saving from crime reduction may well, as you say, be significant, but I don't expect the tax income to be, even in the long term.

Alcohol and tobacco bring in significant quantities of revenue because people who smoke and drink often do so quite a lot. I'm not an expert on cannabis usage patterns, but my impression is that most people who smoke it do so irregularly and infrequently. It wouldn't surprise me if 20 years from now as many people smoked cannabis as nicotine, but it would surprise me if they smoked comparable quantities.

[Earth_First]

47. What are you a food and beverage industry lobbyist?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

54. No, a mathematician.

Do you think no-one without a vested interest would point out an obvious fact?

[jeff47]

73. Then you'd probably realize you need something to measure that against.

And per-capita is about the worst possible metric.

How 'bout comparing it to items in the state budget? It's about the same as capital construction in the governor's budget request.

[Ghost in the Machine]

91. This right here tells me all I need to know,personally...

I'm not an expert on cannabis usage patterns, but my impression is that most people who smoke it do so irregularly and infrequently.

How much interface do you actually have with pot smokers, in general? Since you're "no expert on cannabis usage patterns", how did you come to this conclusion??

I can remember, when times were good, smoking an ounce a day... and when times were tight, making a $20 sack {3.5 grams, an 1/8th of an ounce} last all week, rolling "pinner" joints about the size of a lollipop stick. I haven't smoked in over 4 years now, but still know plenty of people who do, and they think nothing of smoking a $40 sack {a 1/4 ounce} a day, and others who pool their money together to buy an ounce and smoke it in a day. Then all the ones who share with friends on the concept of "ok, I'll buy today, you buy tomorrow, Jimmy can buy the next day, etc. etc.; and they smoke all day, every day. Therefore, I find your "impression" to be way off the mark, and, no disrespect intended, I would delete such a silly comment.

California is absolutely CRAZY on their prices, too. Here on the East Coast, *good* pot can be had for $100 - $120/oz. right now... Then again, I can remember in Miami, Fla when a 4 finger baggie was only $20 - $25, but that was the early 80's.

Peace,

Ghost

[Autumn]

98. That amount is just for a few months. A years worth of taxes

will be much more. It's picking up all the time.

[Comrade Grumpy]

25. It's actually $184 million in anticipated tax revenues for this year alone.

http://justsaynow.firedoglake.com/2014/02/25/these-5-numbers-show-marijuana-legalization-is-going-well-in-colorado/

That is significant.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

37. $37 per capita. So no, not very significant.

If you want to make a financial (as opposed to ethical) argument for legalising cannabis use, look at the money saved from not fighting it, and possibly also at the earning potential not being lost through giving people criminal records and imprisonment, which might (although I don't have data) come to quite a lot.

But, even if your figure is right and the one in the OP is wrong, the tax revenue is not a big deal.

[grahamhgreen]

51. Hey, when your blowing 2/billion a week in Afghanistan, the feel you must cut 7b/year from food

stamps.... Every little bit helps!

You would agree it's positive, right?

[LanternWaste]

68. What is the precise number that would be a "big deal"?

What is the precise number that would in fact, be a "big deal" relevant to taxation on economies of scale, and on what objective measure is that based?

[tridim]

101. $37 per capita, plus FREEDOM. nt

[SmittynMo]

21. This needs to go further

Great. They're making millions on taxes. It's legal, right? Well, you can't smoke it in public. You can't get a job if you test positive for THC on a pre-employment drug test. What about driving? IE: I smoked a joint a week ago and have a car accident today. Will a positive drug test make the accident my fault? It's been proven that the rules for alcohol and THC are completely different. Yet alcohol kills far more people that pot ever will. IE: Same scenario, but I got totally blitzed a week ago. My alcohol level would be 0 at the time of the accident.

So if it's legal, make it legal all the way. It seems that it's only a one way street here.

I could care less if anyone smokes pot, especially in the privacy of their own home. But if it's legal, make it legal all the way. You shouldn't have it both ways.

[Ohio Joe]

24. The laws here in Colorado are pretty much the same as for alcohol...

You can't drink in public, you can't smoke in public. You can drink on your front porch, you can smoke on your front porch. You can't drive drunk, you can't drive high.

You can be disqualified from a job but that has more to do with the companies, not the law. I expect things will change once is is legal federally but not until then... Even then though, you will certainly not be allowed to be high at work just as you can't be drunk at work.

I'm not sure what more you are looking for

[SmittynMo]

33. Thanks for the input

I agree with all you've said. So you can light up a joint on your front porch? And what about driving? THC stays in your body much longer than alcohol. Based on the example I gave, the THC will most likely be in my system from a week ago. So If I'm tested, it will show positive, even though, I was clearly not high at the time of the accident. And how do companies make you not eligible for hiring, if you've smoked a legal substance? In Missouri, you're considered not eligible for hiring for smoking cigarettes in most health care companies. I understand it's health care, but it should not matter. Yet, if current employees smoke, it's OK. WTF. Cigarettes are a legal product. As each year goes by, another right is taken from us. Land of the free, right? Guess again.

My point is: Legal is legal. It should not be held against you in any shape or form.

[fizzgig]

41. they use a blood test for duid

better than urine testing as it metabolizes through the blood more quickly, but still flawed in that i could have smoked several hours earlier and no longer be under the influence but still have a blood level above the legal limit. and i have no idea the consumption level that will get you to, or above, the legal limit.

i do think it's bogus that i can be denied employment for using a legal substance, whether it be mj or tobacco.

it's not perfect, but i think we're making good progress.

[SmittynMo]

49. I agree with making progress

So if I have a minor fender bender, and they suspect mj, (I have no idea how they can positively suspect this), they can force me to take a blood test? I thought that drawing blood was illegal?

[fizzgig]

77. they use blood tests for alcohol, too

i'm not sure what all goes into suspecting mj intoxication (outside it being super obvious) it's still a bit of a work in progress.

[brett_jv]

86. The poster is trying to point out that we have no appropriate measuring system with THC

When it comes to driving, because there is no equivalent of BAC ... when it comes to MJ consumption. It is metabolized far, far slower, and hence detectable in blood/urine for far longer, and the common tests only show 'is it THERE, or not'.

So basically, there's no similar measurement scale for 'how high you are' that remotely matches up with the way a BAC test can measure 'how drunk you are'.

This presents something of a conundrum. What makes it even more interesting is that we don't have great baseline tests for how MJ affects people's driving. Some people who are totally stoned are going to be fine to drive (esp. very experienced users) whereas other folks (esp. novices) are going to be substantially impaired and likely quite dangerous behind the wheel. How are we going to 'quantify' all these various phenomenon properly in the legal sense?

It's a damn good question, frankly.

[fizzgig]

87. where did i say we had a good measurement?

[SmittynMo]

93. All good points.

My concern is LE, and people rights. I am concerned about those who will be busted needlessly and prosecuted for something they didn't do. Just like today where someone was written up and arrested for DUI, blowing 0.0, and blood tests proved his innocence. What recourse does this person have against LE? Based on what I've read in the news in recent past, LE in this country is getting out of hand. IE: Shoot now, ask questions later, illegal arrests. All against innocent people. A personal experience I had was in FL, on vacation. I was pulled over and questioned/harassed for an hour for having slightly tinted glass. WTF. I cannot explain LE's actions, but I do know it is way out of control.

[brett_jv]

97. Where did I say ... that you said that?

Just clarifying the question involved is all ...

[calimary]

23. Once again, we were correct.

People really need to start listening to liberals again. Criminy! What HAVEN'T we been correct about in the last 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, etc., years???

[Comrade Grumpy]

26. It's actually not $25 million but $184 million in pot tax revenues expected this year.

http://justsaynow.firedoglake.com/2014/02/25/these-5-numbers-show-marijuana-legalization-is-going-well-in-colorado/

[SmittynMo]

34. Just think of the gold mine all the other states are missing out on.

It's a matter of time now. Money talks!!!!

[Donald Ian Rankin]

38. I think "chicken feed" is closer than "gold mine", to be honest.

There are plenty of strong arguments for legalising cannabis. This is just a minor side bonus.

[Comrade Grumpy]

44. $184 million in tax revenues for one state in one year ain't "chicken feed."

And the tax revenue argument is actually one of the strongest ones in swinging voters who aren't potheads.

[SmittynMo]

52. 184 million?

184 million more than they were making prior to legalization. That's not a small chunk of change.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

40. That $25million I cited was the initial projection. Whatever, it's all good - they're throwing

less poeple in jail and they are making money.

[Comrade Grumpy]

45. Yes, it's much better than your OP suggested. Just strengthening your argument.

[Jamastiene]

31. If only other states would wise up and follow their lead.

If only...

[B Calm]

35. It eventually will. With the republicans in the Indiana

State House, Indiana will probably be the last state to legalize it. But it will happen. .

[Jamastiene]

62. I'm afraid with McCrory in as governor here

and the horrifying possibility he might get reelected, that NC might be the last one to ever do it. I honestly don't see him ever signing it even if these horrid Republicans that somehow gained control of NC ever passed it on to him. I hope we can get rid of him next time around. He has been a disaster for this state and the Republicans that somehow took over in our state Congress have been a nightmare too. I think most of them are as bad, if not worse than, Teabaggers.

[jeff47]

76. I'm not so sure.

We definitely won't be among the next states.

But they need something to replace the revenue from tobacco. And they'll probably realize pot would be a good replacement.

[Jamastiene]

79. Plus, the rural counties like mine, that dried up because leaders here

pout all our eggs in one basket (textiles) and got burned by NAFTA could start farming it, if they legalized farming it too. It is so sad to see more and more farms go fallow here. I would love to see them growing something again and see our town able to survive and maybe come back after all. I would love to see our major employer NOT be Walmart any more too. It is our major employer in my county. That is how bad it has gotten. Most stores sit empty and the buildings are decaying and crumbling down. NAFTA and the Walmart Super Center were like a one two punch. Legalizing pot would actually create jobs in my hometown.

It is going to take a lot to get local politicians to change their thought processes on that though. I honestly don't know if it can be done, except to show them the dollar amounts they are turning down. Then again, that didn't stop them from keeping those of us who would have qualified for Medicaid (paid for by the federal government) from getting Medicaid. They'd rather lose money than support anything liberals actually want, just to be stubborn jerks. I don't get it. I hope things change, but change seems awfully slow here in NC, awfully slow.

[RainDog]

32. Hickenlooper is warning other states to "go slow"

I'm sure that has nothing to do with making sure his state reaps the most benefits from its status as one of the few legal states, and the money that will put in the state's coffers.

Smooth move, guv.

Scare off the competition with their own reefer madness fears.

[Jesus Malverde]

74. We think alike..

someone replied to me upthread with the idea that colorado will benefit just as much from "Pot Tourism" as long as it's one of the few places. People will come from all over the world for a taste of freedom. The benefits from increased tourism will multiply the tax benefit into sales of non cannabis goods and services.

[RainDog]

111. Yeah

It's hard not to fall into a trap of taking politicians at their word - or as literal expressions of their thinking at any one time and place. I think the Democratic party is taking the steps it needs to do to change the law. We're not going to hear Obama or Holder, for instance, say things that are going to undermine the STEPS that occur to change policy in a lasting way.

The party, itself, of course, is not one entity - and Hickenlooper, I would bet, has actual reservations on some levels just because of the way he was conditioned to think about the issue earlier - but he also seems agile enough to respond to changes that are not necessarily actual changes, but they are changes in who frames/owns an issue. That's why I think the internet has been so essential to this and other issues, in terms of creating an actual groundswell when people from many places can talk and say, yes, of course, I've been in agreement on this issue for decades...

Obama's "offhand" comment in the New Yorker article was a bfd. Those that choose not to see it in this way seem to ignore history in relation to this issue and the office of the presidency.

But when you consider what the political world is and the reality that their entire existence is dealing with power relations and how to do something, knowing some of the thinking of those you oppose...

Keeping that in mind has helped me step back from a lot of my "fall back" position of "why can't people see x or y and fix it now!!!"

Of course, just because we've made this much progress - that's no guarantee that it will continue - as our political past has shown. And, again, whenever things change, there is backlash from those who are not aligned with this change.

[DesertDiamond]

46. Money talks!! And I think states will listen! And hasn't it been about money all along, really?

[Warren DeMontague]

50. Agreed.

[otohara]

58. Colorado Rocks

My former friend who moved to GA and is now a raging republican and racist said years ago before she was brainwashed, "every time I go back to Colorado it's seems cooler than Georgia."

Ummm...it is cooler than Georgia.

Except for the guns

[The Wizard]

61. How much do they save on law enforcement and prison? (NT)

[Jamastiene]

63. That amount HAS to be high, I would think.

Then again, prison is an industry in many states though, sadly.

[SomethingFishy]

67. Lawyers, Judges, Clerks, Cops, Prison Guards, Lab techs..

The list goes on and on..

With the tax and the savings I bet we are near a quarter of a billion in the first year easy.. Back in 2010 the Colorado Drug Enforcement budget was 145 million...

[Old and In the Way]

78. Just decriminalize it.

Your reward will be a ton more money spent in the taxable above ground economy....plus a lot motr money that was previously lost in the underground economy.

[Comrade Grumpy]

80. I think you mean legalize it, if I can get picky for a minute.

"Decriminalization" means you get a ticket and a fine instead of being charged with a criminal offense (usually a misdemeanor) for the possession of less than a certain amount of weed. BUT sales and cultivation remain illegal.

"Legalization" means both the possession and the sales and cultivation are legal, within certain regulations. That's a broad term, though.

It could be "legal" in a highly-regulated fashion, with many restrictions, like we see in Colorado and Washington, or it could be "legal" in a model more akin to how we deal with herbs or tomatoes. Or anywhere in between.

That's my take, anyway.

[fizzgig]

81. they are different

it was decriminalized in colorado years ago. up to an ounce was a $100 fine for first offense unless you were in a school zone (i think), but the only people who could purchase or grow were mmj card holders.

no shops in our area yet, but we're thinking about trying to grow our own.

[Comrade Grumpy]

82. Growing your own is very rewarding.

I can legally grow a 100 square feet where I live (under state law, if not federal law), and I do. I produce enough for myself and then some. Very sweet.

[fizzgig]

83. it would have to be the husband's project

i have a black thumb.

sounds like a sweet deal you have going on.

[cvoogt]

84. $25M = a lot of twinkies

or schools

[colorado_ufo]

92. Yay us!

I feel like we're the "cool kids" on the block!

[Hotler]

94. It doesn't do any good if employers still test......

for residue instead of impairment. Need to work on changing the testing laws. I find it hard to believe that all the people buying and smoking are not being tested.

[Comrade Grumpy]

102. Employers are going to have to rethink their drug testing policies.

Or they will lose employees and potential employees to other employers who don't punish their workers for using legal substances on their own time.