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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMissouri executes inmate for abducting, raping and killing 15-year-old girl in 1989
BONNE TERRE, Mo. (AP) Missouri executes inmate for abducting, raping and killing 15-year-old girl in 1989.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/missouri-executes-inmate-abducting-raping-and-killing-15-year-old-girl-1989
RandySF
(58,911 posts)Keefer
(713 posts)about time. Let's see. 2014 - 1989 = 25. More than enough time to make yourself right with God.
Deep13
(39,154 posts)Still, I think violence by the state encourages people to think of violence as a legitimate solution to problems. Societies with merciful criminal penalties invariably have less violent crime than we do.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)has innocent family members that we tortured as well. Killing is wrong, period!
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)linuxman
(2,337 posts)Fuck him.
That piece of shit got to spend 10 more years in prison than she did on earth.
We'll never know what she might have been. We know what he was.
We are better off.
Petrushka
(3,709 posts)MO_Moderate
(377 posts)Jenoch
(7,720 posts)but when I read stories such as this, I might change my mind.
Lasher
(27,597 posts)We can now be certain that Michael Taylor will never again rape and kill a 15 year old schoolgirl.
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)No good can come from the death penalty. He was given the easy way out painlessly. Captivity would have given him the rest of his life to realize what he did was wrong. The DP is not a deterrent.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)Imprisoning somebody for life is cruel and inhumane. Euthanasia is humane.
No, it's not a deterrent to others. But now there is no chance that he will escape and take another innocent life.
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)Any person capable of raping, torturing and painfully killing others like this guy would be deterred more by facing a life of isolation rather than a painless, easy way out of this mortal coil. The death penalty is wrong, no matter how one tries to rationalize it.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)No matter how much the anti-death penalty people try to rationalize their beliefs.
A person capable of raping, torturing and painfully killing others isn't thinking about getting caught when they are doing their raping, torturing and painfully killing.
And I don't believe that torturing the torturer-killer through isolation and imprisonment is in any way more humane than euthanasia. If anything, it is less so.
I do believe that in cases where the is absolutely no doubt who did the torturing and murdering, euthanasia is preferable to imprisonment. And I do believe that the "death penalty" should be approached as "euthanasia." A sad case where society failed the killer, cannot reasonably expect to rehabilitate the killer, and cannot allow the killer back on the street.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Any punishment needs to be rationalized, not the other way around. I have yet to see anyone rationalize the death penalty.
"absolutely no doubt" is an impossible legal standard which is why it's never been used and you will never see it. So long as people are being put to death there will inevitably be innocent victims of state sanctioned murder.
Lancero
(3,003 posts)Was the 15 year old girl who was raped and murdered.
The guy they put down? That wasn't a victim. It wasn't even human. Raping and murdering a child isn't the action of a human being. It's the action of a rabid animal, a beast with no morality. A monster.
Some people can be rehabilitated. Some crimes are so heinous that rehabilitation isn't worth the risk of the person receding.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)I'm saying that anytime a punishment is irrevocable, there will be innocent victims. Some we know about. Inevitably most we won't.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_execution
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)I really don't know how to respond to such a statement. Nothing in our society can even come close to creating or being the cause of such a killer. The only failure is the killers failure to be a human being and value another human life.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)I'm thinking of the usual defense of "horrible childhood." If that is the case, and we (as a society) failed to notice, or noticed and failed to intervene, or if our intervention was to ship him from one bad foster home after another or make matters worse, then we failed as a society to help grow a decent member of society versus a torturer and murderer.
LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)Before his execution, Taylor told Reuters that he had great remorse for his crime and said it was fueled by crack cocaine.
"I hurt for her family... No words can express the pain and anguish that they have lived with through the years. I can only wish them peace, and pray there will come a day when they can forgive me," Taylor said.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/26/us-usa-missouri-execution-taylor-idUSBREA1P0A020140226
His remorse doesn't mitigate the crime. It doesn't restore Ann or her family. Neither does his death. I don't feel either good or bad about this execution. Done is done.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)that he spend the rest of his life in solitary confinement with NOTHING but a cot and bread and water forever and that is it. One toilet and no ability to see the outside including no going outside for an hour a day. That would be a punishment and a chance for him to ponder his deeds.
PeteSelman
(1,508 posts)Why is the DP more costly and inefficient? Because it takes 25+ years to be carried out. These assholes should have been marched out of their first appeal courtroom and hanged. Quick, easy, cheap.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)We should be opposed to the death penalty. An eye for an eye only kills another person and doesn't bring back the victim. While I agree his crime was heinous, he deserved to be locked up for the rest of his life not killed. It's a shame that Missouri still has the DP.
Lancero
(3,003 posts)Can be taken in many ways.
Some want to execute a person, to quickly remove them.
Some want to throw them in a cage, to let them suffer til they die of age.
In the end, neither side can claim to be humane in their actions. Both cases require a special kind of evil to support, both supporters are of seperate mindsets that are equally cruel.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)good luck bringing them back to life. Yes, both are forms of punishment. No arguing there. If you look at the DP at a form of torture, then it's pretty easy to see which one is worse.
Lancero
(3,003 posts)Innocents have been executed. Innocents have also spent the rest of their lives in prison.
Can you bring the innocents who spent the rest of their lives in prison back?
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)The death penalty is not.
Those two things are not equal.
Lancero
(3,003 posts)The idea is remove the person from society.
They just use differing methods.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)But those two methods are not equal. One is irrevocable and is considered a human rights violation by virtually all of the civilized world with the exception being the US and most despotic shitholes.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)I don't understand what you have against throwing them in a cage to let them suffer til they die of age (I am sure you meant old age). You believe that this is evil? What is your solution? If we could have an adopt a prisoner program perhaps having him stay at your house for life would be the better option. I seriously don't understand your post.
Lancero
(3,003 posts)Is that neither side of the debate can claim moral grounds.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)and even then, the person most likely needs mental treatment in a hospital.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Shaking my head. No use interacting with 'em, either.
Orrex
(63,216 posts)We're a bloodthirsty lot, and it takes very little to bring it to the surface.
Deep13
(39,154 posts)NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)but the world won't miss this guy.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)This guy had a way easier death than that girl did.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)However, I would have been fine with this murderer living the rest of his entire natural life behind bars.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)SPRINGFIELD, Mo. A police search of the southwest Missouri home of a middle-school football coach accused in a 10-year-old girl's kidnapping and death found child pornography and more than a dozen guns, according to search warrants released Friday.
Officers retrieved a three-ring binder containing pornographic photos of young children at the home of Craig Michael Wood, the documents released by Springfield police say. Investigators also seized computers, cameras, 30 video recordings, handwritten journals, a spent .22 caliber shell casing and a hat believed to have been worn by fourth-grader Hailey Owens.
Wood is accused of snatching Hailey as she walked home from her best friend's house this week, just two blocks from her own home. Neighbors said they watched in horror and unsuccessfully gave chase as Hailey was pulled into a pickup truck that sped away.
At a brief hearing Friday, Wood's lawyer said he plans to plead not guilty. Wood appeared via video from the Greene County Jail, where he is being held without bond. He spoke only briefly to answer several questions from the judge. Hailey's parents, older brother and five other family members also attended.
Her body was found in his house. He shot her in the head.
Hailey Owens will be laid to rest this afternoon. May she rest in peace.
Whatever his fate, I hope he's scared shitless for the rest of his life.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)get the red out
(13,466 posts)THIS!!!!!
TroglodyteScholar
(5,477 posts)No?
Huh.
Lancero
(3,003 posts)Going to have a chance to rape and kill again?
No?
Huh.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,182 posts)Probably not?
Huh.
TroglodyteScholar
(5,477 posts)How do so many people conclude that they know who ought to die and when...?
Good people become supporters of murder when they let the need for revenge take over. How don't they see that?
Lancero
(3,003 posts)Was this a good person, and why did he desire revenge against this girl?
TroglodyteScholar
(5,477 posts)...I think you probably know the rest.
TroglodyteScholar
(5,477 posts)No?
Huh.
The bloodlust around here is depressing.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)Tommy_Carcetti
(43,182 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)Tommy_Carcetti
(43,182 posts)And yes, death penalty costs could be reduced by limiting the right of appeal. But then you'd be talking about serious Constitutional violations, not to mention possible executions of wrongfully accused persons.
It's not worth it.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)that said maybe I should word it what does the execution cost after all the trials vs the cost to keep the accused in prison the rest of their life?
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,182 posts)Not really, but it doesn't stop people from thinking that the death penalty is an actual deterrent or that it offers closure to the victim's families.....neither of which is actually true.
11 Bravo
(23,926 posts)to claim to speak for all "victim's families" demonstrates an almost incomprehensible level of arrogance.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,182 posts)Study: Executions Do Not Bring Closure To Victims Families
January 27, 2014 11:28 PM
AUSTIN, TX (CBS Houston) According to a new study, executions do not heal the victims families.
The study also said that the primary reason people say they support the death penalty is based on an incorrect assumption: that the death of the murderer would bring satisfaction and closure to the victims family.
Researchers from the University of Minnesota and from the University of Texas at Austin conducted the survey. Minnesota has no death penalty, and Texas leads the nation in executions.
Researchers conducted personal interviews then compared family survivors experiences in Minnesota with those in Texas. The victims family members in Minnesota showed higher levels of physical, psychological, and behavior health, than those in Texas. They also showed a higher level of satisfaction with the criminal justice system.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)but there are many that show that there is no closure for MOST families.
And then there is the cost of actually executing the perp. It is actually cheaper to keep them in jail for life.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)... just sayin.
Hayabusa
(2,135 posts)or something very similar. Fuck that guy.
MO_Moderate
(377 posts)I can't believe my taxes helped keep this POS alive all this time.
get the red out
(13,466 posts)I have no pity for creeps like this guy.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,182 posts)MO_Moderate
(377 posts)The mere possibility that somebody might be deterred or feel even a tiny bit of closure, is worth it. But, then again, it's not about money, deterrence or closure with me, it's about justice.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,182 posts)MO_Moderate
(377 posts)and don't support murder.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,182 posts)What's that got to do with the death penalty?
If you don't support the death penalty, you support murder???
MO_Moderate
(377 posts)I understand and respect why some do not support the death penalty.
For me personally, people know the punishment for murdering another person and they choose to accept that punishment when they choose to murder.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,182 posts)But specifically as to the death penalty.....
JJChambers
(1,115 posts)In cases where there is truly no doubt as to the convicted's guilt, the death penalty should be applied immediately after sentencing by hanging or firing squad. This would be far more cost effective than life in prison. Simply create a new legal standard for DP cases -- change it from beyond a reasonable doubt to beyond any doubt. Require some form of indisputable physical evidence to reach this standard.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,182 posts)Just for example, mental competency, aggravating factors, the subjective "heinous" test used by the state to determine what is and isn't a death penalty case.
To do away with appeals would be an affront to due process in this country.
It's so much easier to eliminate a method of "justice" that has no deterrent effect or real closure effect to victim's loved ones, and is hypocritical in its very nature.
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)Be very interested to hear what you consider an "aggravating factor" in the rape and murder of a 15 year old girl. Please keep the cold and heartless lawyer-speak rhetoric to a minimum.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,182 posts)I'm sorry you want to diminish such talk as "cold and heartless lawyer speak", but the law is not supposed to be emotional, irrational and an outlet for revenge and vengeance. No matter how horrific the crime.
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)Meanwhile, such lines of defense as "The young lady was being provocative" and "She misled him as to her intentions" from some of our great upstanding defense attorneys in this country is just good solid legal casework and no reason to become "emotional" and "irrational" about the law at all. Save the condescending pap about the nobility and integrity of the criminal defense attorney for someone who would buy it.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)That is why most countries ban it and why the US will too.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)You are on the wrong side of history so to speak. The barbaric practice of state sanctioned murder is becoming less palpable across the world and the country. We are in the vast minority of nations still practicing it.
It is always wrong.
JJChambers
(1,115 posts)Why is it always wrong? I say it's only wrong when applied to cases with dubious convictions. In cases where there is literally NO doubt, I think the death penalty COULD be a cost effective, permanent solution to ridding society of it's garbage. Raise the legal standard to require concrete evidence (not eyewitnesses or uncorroborated confessions), reduce the number of appeals to 1, and carry out executions immediately following an unsuccessful appeal.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)there is a reason why we have the appeal system. Regardless, the US is on the wrong side of history on this one, and the trend now is for it's end. It will come. In my lifetime even.
JJChambers
(1,115 posts)I strongly prefaced my death penalty advocacy with the stipulation that the standard be raised and death penalty cases require a concrete evidence. When I say concrete evidence, I'm talking about physical, tangible evidence such as DNA, video, and other scientific forensic evidence.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)and you are on the wrong side of history. We live in a very vindictive society. Some of our issues are self inflicted. We are not about reducing crime, but only punishing the perps.
If you want to believe that you will reduce innocents getting executing with DNA evidence, I will welcome you to your fantasy.
JJChambers
(1,115 posts)Claiming that raising the standard to a higher level of proof for death penalty sentences will somehow increase the number of innocents executed is just silly.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)as I said, you are welcome to your fantasy, revenge fantasy no less.
As is the cost of a life in prison trial, and keeping the perp in for life is far cheaper than a DP trial. The trail alone averages over 1 million dollars. Keeping the perp in jail and trial cost is much lower. So just from a financial standpoint, it makes sense.
Plus there is ALWAYS the risk of making a mistake. Yes, you could share, highly unlikely, but you could, DNA with an actual perp. Hey DNA did convict, right? And that is where your risk lies.
Here, for your lovely reading
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2010/1003.bobelian.html
JJChambers
(1,115 posts)I also provided a suggestion to reduce the cost
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)I am talking the actual trial, which is the bulk of that cost. We are talking a million dollars average. For that I can keep three to four of these perps, including trial cost, behind bars for the rest of their lives. And if perchance we all made a mistake, it happens, we can free them, with a nice payout. Check the Innocence project for that. Now you cannot quite free somebody if they are four feet under, now can you?
http://www.innocenceproject.org/
Here are some numbers, and my god, I am dated with the data. In California we are talking now in the Billion category
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty
And that is before the first appeal is filed.
Just as an economic issue makes sense to get rid of it.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)CFLDem
(2,083 posts)Bastards like this should be worked to death.
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)Sorry.
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)I believe some people should be executed because their crime is so reprehensible the people committing them have lost their right to live. I consider them unworthy of rehabilitation or redemption, and it is a waste of time and resources to try and rehabilitate them.
Now, I MIGHT be willing to abolish the DP provided that it was replaced by Life Without Parole, and for the very worst Life Without Parole in Solitary Confinement 23 hours a day.
But as soon as the Death Penalty was abolished, the very next thing that would happen is people would start advocating for the abolition of Life Without Parole on the grounds that it was inhumane, and that the murderer really deserved rehabilitation, redemption and release back into society.
Evidence right here....
http://www.thenation.com/article/170852/life-without-parole-different-death-penalty
Ticktock
(19 posts)The air i'm breathing today feels a bit fresher knowing it wont be circulated through this particular human's lungs ever again.
I have zero problem with the death penalty. NONE in cases like this.
You commit a crime like this with circumstances like this and you lose all basic rights as a human being, IMHO.
I've got a lot more important things to shed tears over than some degenerate murdering raping pedophile being put to death. Give me a break.
1awake
(1,494 posts)I am against the death penalty. I am also against life sentences.
struggle4progress
(118,295 posts)by his drug dependence. It was a disgusting crime. But IMO there's good reason to think that in many cases such criminals can be rehabilitated
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)If the state executes anyone ever, it will sometimes execute the wrong people.
That's not a price worth paying when there are working prisons.