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G_j

(40,370 posts)
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 09:43 AM Feb 2014

Confirmed: Oldest Fragment of Early Earth is 4.4 Billion Years Old

http://news.yahoo.com/confirmed-oldest-fragment-early-earth-4-4-billion-180642066.html;_ylt=AwrBJSCrSwtTTFUAB3zQtDMD

By By Becky Oskin, Staff Writer 19 hours ago

Confirmed: Oldest Fragment of Early Earth is 4.4 Billion Years Old

Ever heard this life advice? When solving a big problem seems impossible, break it into smaller steps.

Well, scientists just took one of geology's biggest controversies and shrunk it down to atomic size. By zapping single atoms of lead in a tiny zircon crystal from Australia, researchers have confirmed the crystal is the oldest rock fragment ever found on Earth — 4.375 billion years old, plus or minus 6 million years.

"We've proved that the chemical record inside these zircons is trustworthy," said John Valley, lead study author and a geochemist at the University of Wisconsin, Madison. The findings were published today (Feb. 23) in the journal Nature Geoscience.

Confirmation of the zircon age holds enormous implications for models of early Earth. Trace elements in the oldest zircons from Australia's Jack Hills range suggest they came from water-rich, granite-like rocks such as granodiorite or tonalite, other studies have reported. That means Earth cooled quickly enough for surface water and continental-type rocks just 100 million years after the moon impact, the massive collision that formed the Earth-moon system. [How Was The Moon Formed?]

"The zircons show us the earliest Earth was more like the Earth we know today," Valley said. "It wasn't an inhospitable place."

..more..
40 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Confirmed: Oldest Fragment of Early Earth is 4.4 Billion Years Old (Original Post) G_j Feb 2014 OP
proud to see u of wis research dembotoz Feb 2014 #1
Pretty damn cool davidpdx Feb 2014 #2
Impossible Separation Feb 2014 #3
I think the point of contention is this 1awake Feb 2014 #5
But scientists usually have broad frames of reference. fleabiscuit Feb 2014 #15
, blkmusclmachine Feb 2014 #4
Does that mean my zirconium sanding belts are 4 billion years old? pangaia Feb 2014 #6
No. Bernardo de La Paz Feb 2014 #7
Scientists could date the zircons embedded in your belt. Enthusiast Feb 2014 #25
Humm... interesting... pangaia Feb 2014 #37
Recommend jsr Feb 2014 #8
That is way cool! LibertyLover Feb 2014 #9
K&R. Overseas Feb 2014 #10
BLASPHEMY!!!! I was told 6,000.... Lobo27 Feb 2014 #11
That is super cool. blackspade Feb 2014 #12
Bwahahaha if only! CFLDem Feb 2014 #21
Unfortunately, probably not. 3catwoman3 Feb 2014 #36
I imagine he thinks God gave him a brain G_j Feb 2014 #40
K & R for science and discoveries.. mountain grammy Feb 2014 #13
very cool and thanks for posting this niyad Feb 2014 #14
"It wasn't an inhospitable place."....except for the lack of oxygen. (nt) jeff47 Feb 2014 #16
Life does not require oxygen. Xithras Feb 2014 #30
Yes, but since we need it, we generally think of it as required to be hospitable. (nt) jeff47 Feb 2014 #31
Freepers heads just exploded malaise Feb 2014 #17
For now, anyway... pipi_k Feb 2014 #20
Bwaaaaaah hahahahaha malaise Feb 2014 #22
photo, G_j Feb 2014 #18
Bullshit Tree-Hugger Feb 2014 #19
I love this. I read other articles about using zircons to date ancient Canadian terrains. Enthusiast Feb 2014 #23
Ahhh. . .science. Ahhh. . .logic. Ahhh. . .science. Witchcraft! Earth. 4004 BC Nanjing to Seoul Feb 2014 #24
Oh, no... pipi_k Feb 2014 #26
of course i see it. . .science to validate religious dogma is acceptable to Jeebus fans Nanjing to Seoul Feb 2014 #27
I don't think I understand radio dating of rocks. denverbill Feb 2014 #28
I think in this case it's not the age of the surrounding rock (the jeans) that is petronius Feb 2014 #33
I read an article at Wikipedia and I think I understand now. denverbill Feb 2014 #39
You mean this is not real nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #29
Zapping Zircon seveneyes Feb 2014 #32
So, is Australia's Jack Hills, like, the stablest place on earth? Brother Buzz Feb 2014 #34
Related, G_j Feb 2014 #35
The devil put it there. Blue_In_AK Feb 2014 #38

1awake

(1,494 posts)
5. I think the point of contention is this
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 10:16 AM
Feb 2014
"The zircons show us the earliest Earth was more like the Earth we know today," Valley said. "It wasn't an inhospitable place."


Not how old it is or is not. This is pretty controversial. Really cool.

fleabiscuit

(4,542 posts)
15. But scientists usually have broad frames of reference.
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 11:07 AM
Feb 2014

There's life in the hot springs of Yellowstone and the deep smoker vents in the pitch black deep oceans. They aren't inhospitable to the life living there now, and the Earth is pretty much like the Earth we know today. lol

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
25. Scientists could date the zircons embedded in your belt.
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 12:19 PM
Feb 2014

But, because they are no longer where they were mined it wouldn't be of practical value. Unless we knew the source location.

Lobo27

(753 posts)
11. BLASPHEMY!!!! I was told 6,000....
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 10:30 AM
Feb 2014

Joking aside, that is some awesome stuff. Science never seizes to amaze me!!

3catwoman3

(24,043 posts)
36. Unfortunately, probably not.
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 02:25 PM
Feb 2014

If I remember correctly, when asked what could/would get him to change his beliefs about things, his reply was, "Nothing." Gawd herself would have to seize him by the neck and tell him something to his face to shake his willingly ignorant complacency.

mountain grammy

(26,648 posts)
13. K & R for science and discoveries..
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 10:36 AM
Feb 2014

but the important question is: does it violate our religious freedoms and can our children opt out of learning about it?

Xithras

(16,191 posts)
30. Life does not require oxygen.
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 12:44 PM
Feb 2014

Attested to by the fact that our oxygen was generated by life forms that arose when there was no free oxygen at all!

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
20. For now, anyway...
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 11:33 AM
Feb 2014

until they decide that God is just playing tricks on them to "test their faith".


That's what one of my Fundy sisters told me about dinosaur bones and fossils...

Tree-Hugger

(3,370 posts)
19. Bullshit
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 11:31 AM
Feb 2014

The devil just buried those rocks there to lead you away from God and into the fiery pit of Hell (aka Ted Nugent's underwear drawer).

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
23. I love this. I read other articles about using zircons to date ancient Canadian terrains.
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 12:07 PM
Feb 2014

It's a fascinating process.

The geological history of the earth is a beautiful story. The more you learn about it the more satisfying it becomes.

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

 

Nanjing to Seoul

(2,088 posts)
24. Ahhh. . .science. Ahhh. . .logic. Ahhh. . .science. Witchcraft! Earth. 4004 BC
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 12:14 PM
Feb 2014

Ahh. . .science. Help. . .they're trying to open my mind. Help! Jebus, help me! Smite the unbelievers. Carbon dating is a hoax!

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
26. Oh, no...
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 12:19 PM
Feb 2014

Carbon dating isn't a hoax when it's used to date something like the Shroud of Turin.

Or maybe a boat that's purported to be The Ark.


Don't you see how that works?

denverbill

(11,489 posts)
28. I don't think I understand radio dating of rocks.
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 12:26 PM
Feb 2014

If a radioactive particle decays at a particular rate, I understand you can measure the relative proportion of isotopes to get the age of the radioactive material, but that doesn't automatically get you the age of the rock, just the age of the radioactive particle. If I put a 100 year old coin in my jeans pocket it doesn't mean my jeans are 100 years old.

How do they know that when the rock was formed the radioactive components weren't already half decayed?

Not questioning the science, just trying to understand it.

petronius

(26,603 posts)
33. I think in this case it's not the age of the surrounding rock (the jeans) that is
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 12:53 PM
Feb 2014

of interest; they know the zircon fragments have moved around a lot. Rather, it's the age of the zircon crystals themselves that is of interest, because the overall composition of the zircon gives insight into the process and environment in which the crystal solidified. So by finding ancient zircon, they can tell something about geology and water content at the time of its formation, even though the zircon is now removed from the long-gone rock in which it originally lay. That's my take, anyway - I'm sure DU has a geologist (or 3) who will be along shortly...

denverbill

(11,489 posts)
39. I read an article at Wikipedia and I think I understand now.
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 08:31 PM
Feb 2014

Zircon will form a crystal with Uranium, but not with lead. So when the zircon formed, all the molecules in the structure had to be uranium because the crystal wouldn't form with lead.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiometric_dating
Uranium-lead dating is often performed on the mineral zircon (ZrSiO4), though it can be used on other materials, such as baddeleyite.[20] Zircon and baddeleyite incorporate uranium atoms into their crystalline structure as substitutes for zirconium, but strongly reject lead. Zircon has a very high closure temperature, is resistant to mechanical weathering and is very chemically inert. Zircon also forms multiple crystal layers during metamorphic events, which each may record an isotopic age of the event. In situ micro-beam analysis can be achieved via laser ICP-MS or SIMS techniques.[21]
....

I was thinking it was more like uranium embedded in the rock, not chemically bonded.

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