Arkansas homeowner shoots at teens egging his car, killing 15 year old girl in the process

[fried eggs]

A mischievous prank turned deadly on Saturday after a 15-year-old girl was shot dead by an irate Arkansas homeowner who is now facing first-degree murder charges.

Adrian Broadway was allegedly hit in the head by Willie Noble, 48, after the teenage girl and five other friends covered Noble's car with leaves, eggs and mayonnaise just before 1am on Saturday morning.

It was the second prank Broadway and her friends had played on Noble that evening - causing him to burst out of his home in Little Rock firing his gun at the car containing the teen and her friends.

Noble was arrested by police and charged with one count of first degree murder, one count of a terroristic act and five counts of aggravated assault - for firing on the other passengers of the white Hyundai Sonata.

Article: http://www.miaminewsday.com/national/44942-girl-15-shot-and-killed-by-man-48-who-opened-fire-on-car-full-of-teenagers-for-covering-his-car-with-leaves-eggs-and-mayonnaise.html

I'm speechless.

[dixiegrrrrl]

1. and the pattern begins...

I was hoping that the Dunn conviction would give peole a reason to THINK.
gues not.

This is going to be an interesting case, given that there is no racial bias element ( I assume)

[fried eggs]

4. I think the issue here is unchecked gun access

Americans are showing with increasing frequency that most (if not all) of the access needs to be revoked.

[Logical]

7. You know this is 100% unrealistic, correct? Nt

[fried eggs]

9. Do we have to wait until guns are the number one cause of death in the US?

The pattern is clear and we should fix it now, not later.

[LisaL]

10. Too many people in this country looove their guns.

It wouldn't matter if guns were the number one cause of death in the US.

[Lizzie Poppet]

12. The pattern is clear?

Um...you do realize firearms-related homicide is declining in the US, right?

[SheilaT]

24. Oh, good. So I guess that means that those who

are killed with guns, since they are a declining number, somehow don't count? Or we should be happy that it's not even more?

[Lizzie Poppet]

47. Not sure where you pulled that conclusion from...

...since it certainly doesn't follow from what I said. But when a trend is moving n a positive direction, that usually indicates a different course of action from when the trend is negative.

[BainsBane]

28. The pattern is exactly as planned

by ALEC and the gun lobby: effectively legalizing the murder of African Americans. But I guess since numbers are declining, these deaths don't really count. As long as the gun totter gets away with it, then they are "justifiable" and a positive good according to some of our more heavily armed citizens.

[Eleanors38]

50. Yes, levers are pulled, buttons are pushed, giggles in the dark.

[Packerowner740]

123. Ummm, you do realize the shooter was African American

How does that figure into Alec and the gun lobbies plan?

[laundry_queen]

110. Because trauma centers know more about how to save shooting victims now. When they don't die,

there's no homicide.

[Lizzie Poppet]

111. That's certainly a component, and it's gratifying.

But according to the National Institute of Justice (http://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/gun-violence/Pages/welcome.aspx) all firearms-related crime has been declining, not just homicide.

[Logical]

14. How to start? They are 100% legal to buy, possess. Even.....

Great dems would not vote to ban them much less collect them.

[fried eggs]

17. So let's continue to be the laughingstock of the world

Name one other country that condones this shit. Again, a future gun ban is inevitable. The question is, how many people will be massacred before it happens?

[Logical]

19. Ban and collection? Are you serious? nt

[delrem]

25. I think it's more a matter of overall US national attitude.

Respect for guns, for gun ownership - a recognition of the responsibility that automatically attaches to gun ownership - is one thing. It's a sane thing.

But the overall US national attitude doesn't match that. I see vids of jackasses wandering around shopping malls with AK's strapped across their backs just to make a point about what they call their "right to carry". I listen to their speeches about how such actions are patriotic. I see religious leaders making a point of wanting to allow open carry in their churches. I see stupidity mixed with ignorance dominating the popular US gun culture. I see "stand your ground" laws where folk are actually encouraged to fire at will rather than retreat. I see gun shows where insane firepower is both worshipped and sold in an essentially unregulated market. I see maniacs appealing to the US constitution as granting them the right to be in-your-face belligerent about their guns, hyperventilating in exhilaration not only about their right to use their guns against others who they imagine might threaten them, but about their pride in saying so at every opportunity.

I see a culture weaned on a false history of a gun-centric "wild west" where reason is left no room to intervene, to add nuance to a black-and-white good-and-evil nonsensical version of US history. I see a culture that worships war, that lies to itself about its role in war and that has no sense of the distinction between fantasy and reality when it comes to guns, war, and killing.

When it comes to guns and the military the US is fucking well insane.

[MyNameGoesHere]

39. Absofuckinglutely.

But you forgot destroy them.

[Logical]

72. When do you see this starting? 1 year, 5 years? Nt

[MyNameGoesHere]

114. Why you volunteering to be first?

We could do it right now.

[Logical]

115. Name 10 democrats willing to propose this. Much less 200. Make believe is fun. n-t

[MyNameGoesHere]

136. Well it isn't as fun as stroking a gun I suppose

but you know different "strokes" for different folks.

[Logical]

137. Typical uninformed emotional response! Classy! nt

[MyNameGoesHere]

138. You seem upset. Did I disturb your

gunbatin? You could always put a sign up saying "Batin"

[Logical]

139. No, just people like you throw out ideas that will never happen. But if it....

Makes you feel better then I guess it is fine.

[MyNameGoesHere]

140. Will never happen like

Woman's right to vote will never happen, or man on the moon never happen? Which one?

[Logical]

141. Yes, because they are the same! You realize.....

Expanding women's right was giving people more freedom! Not taking stuff away!

[Walk away]

65. Very serious I hope...Unfettered gun ownership is a national disgrace.nt

[Lizzie Poppet]

77. "...a future gun ban is inevitable."

Not in the US as currently constituted, it isn't. If, as I suspect will occur, the nation breaks up into several regional polities, perhaps some of them will ban civilian firearms ownership. Probably not all that successfully, mind you, but they may try.

[proudretiredvet]

21. This is murder plain and simple

I would like to know just how you are going to overcome the second amendment. It is there. It will take a vast majority of the states to vote to discard it. That is never going to happen.
You have a right to be anti gun but this is pure fantasy.

[Walk away]

62. ^^^^^YES^^^^^^

[MineralMan]

84. No need to assume. A look at the article at the link

makes that clear.

[villager]

2. A small price to pay so that gun-proliferation can remain unchecked in this great country!

You....grabber!

[Cali_Democrat]

3. So now playing loud music and egging is a death sentence

Thanks to the gun nuts.

[TheMathieu]

5. I knew her ethnicity before I even clicked the link.

[LisaL]

6. That's not surprising considering a large photo of her is included in the OP.

[Logical]

8. I think they meant the OP link! nt

[rrneck]

11. Do you know the ethnicity of the shooter? nt

[BuelahWitch]

13. Also African American

If the picture at the link is correct.

[rrneck]

20. Yep. nt

[Lost_Count]

63. This fellow...

Is it safe to assume they were on his property or was it in public? Different laws apply in different places.

I doubt he will get 1st degree...

[cherokeeprogressive]

18. I'd bet my wallet you thought you knew the ethnicity of the shooter too.

And I'd also bet you were wrong.

[WinkyDink]

57. But did you know the shooter's? I was wrong on both.

[840high]

78. Then you must have known

the ethnicity of the shooter, too.

[Comrade Grumpy]

15. Such a ridiculous, stupid, tragic overreaction. And a gun.

I swear, it's like we've made a national compact: As a society, we accept X dead people a year and in return we get pretty much unfettered access to guns. What a bargain.

[Art_from_Ark]

22. Not to defend the shooting, but

The shooting was apparently in the vicinity of the 7600 block of Baseline Road, which is in a pretty rough neighborhood. The teenagers weren't satisfied to "prank" the alleged shooter once-- they had to return and "prank" him again. They seemed to have had some sort of grudge against him-- or maybe they just wanted to yank his chain. Why? There must be more to this story.

[BuelahWitch]

26. The story said it was in retaliation for a Halloween prank

that the shooter's son played on them. Halloween was almost 4 months ago...

[Art_from_Ark]

30. Thanks for the clarification

I didn't see anything about retaliation in the stories I read about the incident. At any rate, prank leading to counterprank leading to fatal shooting-- it's all so senseless.

[anasv]

68. four months? And twice?

That sounds bogus.

[BuelahWitch]

73. I thought the same

As someone else said, there is more to this story.

[regnaD kciN]

87. Also, one of the survivor's claims...

...that they and the shooter's kid were "friends," and that they would have come back and cleaned up the damage they'd caused. Excuse me, boys and girls, but can you say "utter bullshit?" Sure, you can!

[Scootaloo]

37. Because they're teenagers

Teenagers do dumb things.

I see posts like yours - and not just you, it's fairly common on DU - and I just wonder what sort lif lives you guys lived. Did you sprout whole from the earth in your current age? Were you just absolute angles between the age of 10 and 20? What's up?

When I was fifteen, I did LOTS of dumb things.

1) I was a thief. I shoplifted stuff. Mostly for the thrill of doing it, to see if I could. I never actually lifted anything more valuable than packs of magic cards, but it's the principle of the thing.

2) A friend and I built a cabin in the woods near our neighborhood, planning to turn it into a love shack for all the hot girls we were going to bang. never mind that neither of us knew of any such girls, or that they probably wouldn't want to shag in the woods, we were prepared. Oh, and we stole all the lumber we used, by tossing it over the fence in the back of a nearby home depot.

3) same friend and I used my graddad's old steelwright tools to make medieval weapons. Which we then used to fight duels with each other. We also got into fights with kids the next neighborhood over. Not knuckle sandwich fights - bleach-bomb and homemade fireworks fights. That nobody was actually harmed in any of this is an absolute miracle.

4) In later years I picked fights, by being a smartass until the guy I was after made it physical. That I almost never won these fights was beside the point, it was about asserting myself as someone who isn't afraid to hit back. Which rather obviously wouldn't have been necessary had I not been a dick. I'm still a smartassed bastard.

Oh and of course there's the cross-county hikes, the highway bike races, and all the other stupid, stupid, stupid shit that an invincible know-it-all teenager is certain they will get away with with no consequences.

I've actually done things that would likely warrant getting shot at. So. yes. Teenagers do some stupid shit. Most of them not to the degree that would call for a bullet - gooping up someone's car is certainly really, relaly fucking low on the list.

[Art_from_Ark]

41. I would never have thought of vandalizing someone's property

Never. I did some stupid things as a teenager, but they were quite tame compared to what you have described, and I would never, ever have egged someone's car, or toilet-papered their yard, or any other kind of crap like that because I certainly would not have wanted anyone to do the same to me.

[Scootaloo]

42. Yes I know, many DU'ers are absolute flawless angels

As I said. So are all their children.

You guys are generally the exception, however. And the core point is, teenage stupidity should not carry a death sentence.

[Art_from_Ark]

43. I never said I was flawless

But I always tried to abide by the Golden Rule, even as a teenager, because I did not want people doing stupid shit to me, so I didn't do stupid shit to them. How hard is it to understand that?

[Scootaloo]

45. How hard is it to understand what I'm saying?

Okay. you were a conscientious, well-mannered, staying-out-of-trouble teenager. Good for you, that's awesome I guess. That's also not the case for most people who have ever been or will ever be teenagers.

So is mayonnaise on your car worth shooting a child over? I find it indefensible, even while granting it was a dumb decision to vandalize someone's car with condiments in the first place.

[Art_from_Ark]

48. I believe I made it clear that the whole affair was senseless

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4513743

So no, vandalizing someone's car with mayonnaise + eggs + leaves does not warrant a death sentence. But coming back a second time the same night to continue the "prank" is just asking for trouble.

[Scootaloo]

56. My apologies, I phrased poorly

It's not my intent to say that you are excusing this girl's murder, but I can see, on re-reading how it could read out that way. I had intended for that to be read separately from the argument about teenagers doing dumb things, and obviously things in our head don't always come out well in text.

[Eleanors38]

55. I see posts like yours, as well...

You attacked someone for trying to make sense of what went down, and accuse him/her of excusing a homicide. And dump in the snide crap about his upbringing as well. Just how many enemies do you see out there?

[laundry_queen]

112. Yep.

I was a honors student, did my chores, took piano lessons (and was pretty talented, I was usually the 'showcase' performer at our recitals), volunteered, had a part-time job, got my license on my first try (with a near perfect score), was the captain of the volleyball team, played other sports, etc.

I also got floor-licking drunk nearly every weekend starting at age 12. I shoplifted a lot until I got caught when I was 13. I TP'ed and egged more than a few houses. Made out with more than a few guys in public areas. Hitchhiked. Snuck into bars with fake id's. Snuck out of my house in the middle of the night. Went on 'joyrides' in the farmer's fields around town. 'broke in' to the school (back in the day before security system we rigged the door to not close all the way and we'd go hang out in the school on cold winter weekends). Um...I'm sure there's more but I don't remember (probably was too drunk).

I agree with you 100%. I did some monumentally stupid things as a teen. None of it should have resulted in me getting shot. I grew out of all those things. I now have 4 kids of my own who, while not angels, are definitely not as a bad as I was because hopefully, I've been a better parent than my (awful, narcissistic) parents were. But kids will do stupid things, and not one of them should die for it, ever.

[babydollhead]

66. I like your stories!

How did your friend turn out?
That's what I want to know. and also, in my mind, I decided that I had no conscience before I was 21. So, even though I did heartless things to my friends in the name of humor (taking a frog head from biology class and closing it in in my friends algebra book, then throwing it in our locker for her to find way after I forgot about doing it) .
For my son and his buddies, they played what I called "thinning the herd" games, involving horrible contests with the law of physics.

As far as committing slights against people that are "being shot worthy," I am guilty. I have looked at people wrong, rolled my eyes, stole someones boyfriend...etc.

[Lizzie Poppet]

75. Great post, Scootaloo.

Yep, teenagers pull some truly boneheaded stunts. I was a quiet, reclusive kid and still managed my share. Some of those Stupid Teenager Tricks are such that they risk someone physically retaliating in anger (or simply believing they need to defend themselves). But as you say, most are not deserving of lethal force in response.

I'd consider the "nuclear option" in a car egging case to be calling the cops. That would drive home the "actions have consequences" lesson. Responding to a non-violent annoyance with violence is simply wrong.

[oldhippie]

95. "Teenagers do dumb things" ......

Well, you know, not all teenagers do dumb things. I can't believe you listed all the things you did. I would be ashamed to have a list like that. I hope what you did is not considered the norm in your world.

In my world, when I was a teenager, in the 60's, I was trying to be a good student. Much of my life revolved around the Boy Scouts, and I became an Eagle Scout as a teenager. I studied hard and got good grades and was recruited to a private engineering college on an academic scholarship. I never stole things, never got into fights, and never vandalized anyone's property.

There are consequences to being dumb. It's part of evolution. Not everyone gets to learn from their mistakes. And yeah, sometimes they get killed.

[BainsBane]

102. It goes to show how people describe their teenage years

has little correlation to who they are as an adult. Scootaloo is one of the finest members of this site, a true liberal who cares about social justice and equal rights.

[Scootaloo]

125. See, that's the thing...

Teenagers do dumb things. They're dumb. They grow up, look back at the stuff they did, and it's a combination of regret at doing this shit and amazement at having come through it. Do you see me going "yeah, that was awesome!" No, you see me "That was fucking stupid and I'm surprised i didn't get killed for some of it!"

Good for you and your perfect record. Not everyone has that, though. And no, those people don't deserve to die.

[oldhippie]

130. Nature has it's way of culling the herd .....

We usually don't like it.

[Scootaloo]

131. Oh, I heard you the first time

I'm just trying to avoid the bloviation that will no doubt come out when I point out white baby boomers being so eager to excuse the killing of a 15 year old black kid.

Oh.

Oops.

[rustydog]

93. NOT TO DEFEND....What???

You cannot kill someone for throwing EGGS!

Unless they were hard-boiled eggs because then it is a deadly missile! and you MUST stand your ground when protecting a motor vehicle.

[Art_from_Ark]

121. I never said I condoned this shooting

Sheesh. But this wasn't a simple egging, either. The kids "pranked" the guy once, but weren't content with that so they came back and smeared his car with eggs, mayonnaise and leaves. For what? To retailiate for something the shooter's son might have done back on Halloween?

And hard-boiled eggs *can* be deadly missiles. Some asshole egged me once, as I was driving and they were passing me from the other direction in a truck. The egg put a hole in the windshield of the convertible I was driving. That damned hard-boiled egg could have hit my head with a force that was strong enough to put a hole in a windshield.

[Iggo]

16. Guns are more important than people.

Protect the guns at all costs!

[defacto7]

29. It seems

guns and cars are more important than people.

Protecting guns, protecting cars, protecting stuff? It's all stupid.

[cui bono]

36. I think it's an ego thing. That "nobody fucks with me" attitude.

And then you get the macho idiots who keep fighting to keep all kinds of guns and have concealed carry and no background checks so these idiots who think they need to be the most macho person out there just pulls them out and uses them rather than being a mature human being.

That was just a rambling and messy stream of consciousness. I'm just so fed up with the macho bullshit.

We need to promote "stand down" rather than "stand your ground" so we can stop these senseless murders over NOTHING.

[defacto7]

46. I agree.

"Stand Down" Now there's a position I would support. It makes a lot more sense than stand your ground which in essence means "let's play last man standing" or "shoot anything that moves".

[Eleanors38]

59. I support more peaceful resolution, including standing down

during challenges & confrontations. The "macho" confrontations have been with us long before wide-spread concealed-carry, long before ANY back ground checks, and long before any attempts to ban weapons-types. And the murder rates were far higher.

Look at the posts and see the calls for bans, and the attacks on gun-owners, and ask yourself: Can anything improve in the atmosphere on DU, let alone in society at large?

[Maedhros]

23. "One count of a terroristic act"

Hmmm. I agree the guy is a murderer, but I can't see any good coming from "terroristic act" charges being tacked onto every violent crime. "Terrorism" is already much too vague of a term.

[JJChambers]

53. That law

Just looked the statute up and terroristic act in arkansas is defined as, basically, shooting into an occupied building or vehicle.

[BainsBane]

27. Two Florida juiries have shown someone can kill African Americans and get away with it

So naturally more are going to be doing it. while the gun nuts will continue to defend them and minimize the significance of these deaths.

[dionysus]

85. Dunn certaintly didn't get away with it.. and when he's treid for murder one he could lose on that,

too.

[BainsBane]

105. There is no verdict in Jordan Davis' death

Dunn was convicted of attempted murder of the other boys but of no crime against Davis. I hope a retrial does change that.

[oldhippie]

96. Your fact is in error ....

But you knew that. And didn't care.

[BainsBane]

97. What fact is that?

[oldhippie]

99. Your title .....

But you knew that.

[BainsBane]

100. WTF?

Actually my title is accurate. And I'm sure far more than two juries have failed to convict someone for killing an African American. Perhaps you should read a newspaper once in a while instead of fancying yourself a mind reader.
You do an exceedingly poor job of it.

[oldhippie]

101. Nice try

We see what you did there.

Internet mind reader? Don't we have a whole bunch of those on the internet? Especially in certain corners? I've had any number of people on this forum read my mind. Internet superheros, they are.

[BainsBane]

104. Free associaiton generally doesn't make for productive discussion

Since you have lost the plot, I won't bother continuing.

[oldhippie]

113. OK

Bye bye for now.

[Packerowner740]

124. How does an African American man, killing an African American teen

Have anything to do with juries not making convictions in other cases?

[BainsBane]

128. because juries view African American lives as less valuable

which is why a person least likely to be given the death penalty is someone who kills a black person.

At that time I wrote that, I didn't know the race of the shooter, but that doesn't change the fact that society undervalues black lives.

[sakabatou]

31. Ugh

[Electric Monk]

32. If I were a juror, I could see convicting him on 2nd degree but probably not on 1st degree. nt

[cui bono]

33. Jesus Fucking Christ! Enough with the fucking guns already.

Anyone who continues to argue for gun ownership is an asshole. Period.

If we had strict gun laws senseless killings like this wouldn't happen. It's far too easy for these macho morons to grab their penis compensator and start shooting it for no fucking reason what so ever. Did he need a gun to protect him from raw fucking eggs???

Fuck this shit.

[oneshooter]

120. What "strict gun laws" are you promoting?

Have you written any proposals for your government reps to push forward into law?

[Initech]

122. Seriously, what you said.

[Drunken Irishman]

34. Egging cars, TPing, soaping windows...all something I bet we've done at least once.

Fortunately, we weren't killed. Of course, I grew up in an era where being shot for that wasn't a reality.

So sad.

[regnaD kciN]

86. I didn't...

...but I had it done to me and my family's home -- repeatedly.

You see, I had made the fatal mistake of having to move to a insular community in 5th grade -- and, worse, having moved from Europe, where the standards of behavior were very different, and kids were expected to be polite, respectful, and quiet, to talk through differences instead of fighting them out -- all traits that were anathema to the kids in the new community. To top it off, of course, I had no experience in the U.S. sports that were the focus of the community. It didn't take long before I was ostracized, labeled a "sissy" or "homo," and having groups of kids spend each recess getting together to kick the crap out of me. Of course, I tried fighting back, but I was also lousy at fighting...and, of course, it becomes much harder when it's a whole group against you, and when the school's way of handling the matter was the "even-handed" one of punishing me as well as those who went after me (we were all "fighting," don't you know?). When Halloween came one year, our house was targeted by those same kids; our pumpkins were smashed repeatedly, people would ring the doorbell and run away and, finally, on one of those occasions, when my father opened the door to see who was out there, he was greeted out of the darkness by a volley of eggs that smashed all over our front porch and left a stench for weeks. (I later found out that the assailants were, not the primary bullies who had made my life miserable, but kids at my bus stop, who I thought were friends, but who obviously thought my standing in the community made my family worthy of "harmless practical jokes" like this.)

We had a BB gun in the basement, left by the kid of a friend of my parents who'd stayed with us for a couple of weeks the previous year. However, there was no "ammunition" with it. Had there been, I can't honestly say that I wouldn't have grabbed it and shot in the direction of the kids throwing the eggs. A real gun with live ammunition? Let's just say I'm grateful such an option wasn't available. But bullying -- repeated, intensive, and systematic -- can create its own form of PTSD, and it's not impossible that such was at play here. Perhaps the gunman might have been the victim of the same kind of treatment as his son, and finally snapped? What's tragic is when people in this situation have easy access to a firearm before they can stop and think -- but it's also the height of foolishness to use a "boys will be boys" (sound familiar?) rationalization to think it's O.K. to repeatedly come onto someone's property to vandalize it with impunity, and never expect that there might be consequences...even tragic ones.

[Duckhunter935]

88. Never even thought about doing it

I guess my upbringing of do unto others worked

[Drunken Irishman]

90. LOL

I must've just had awful, horrible, unthinkable sinners for parents. Is that what you're getting at?

I used to TP my friend's house when I was a kid. Then we'd be called over to clean it up the next morning.

But then, I had a bad upbringing I guess.

[etherealtruth]

116. My upbringing must have sucked as much as yours ;-)

I did a lot of volunteer work, I was a generally good student ... and I could also be a complete ass hole as a teen.

We used to soap windows ... I can remember soaping a neighbors car windows and hiding in the shrubbery laughing as the neighborhood bully was blamed (hardly exemplary behavior).

As I aged I continued volunteer work ... chose my careers based on service to the world and haven't soaped a window since I was 12.

One has to wonder about those expressing shock and horror about the actions of heathens (like us)

[Nanjing to Seoul]

35. Eh. . .he was just standing his ground and if the girl didn't want to die, she wouldn't have been

born black.

[Eleanors38]

60. So your tautology works when the shooter is

"born black?"

[Nanjing to Seoul]

70. obviously you have no idea what sarcasm is.

[Eleanors38]

133. Actually, I do. But as with any joke or irony, the telling is an art.

[Nanjing to Seoul]

134. Then please give me more insights on humorous delivery, oh comedic sage.

[TorchTheWitch]

38. I wish I was speechless

These sort of cases happen far far too often. Nut with a gun shoots people because they're pissed off at them.

Such a sweet and lively looking young woman. A fucking travesty that she got killed because she vandalized someone's car. Why the fuck can't people just call the cops???

[mnhtnbb]

51. Why the fuck can't people just call the cops??? What about calling the parent--or guardian?

I know I'm going to sound like an old fart, but back in the day (50's and 60's)
when we were kids this kind of thing happened all the time--on Mischief Night.
BUT, if you got caught? Uh oh. Your parents would get called and then you got
to clean up your mischief.

Shooting someone for egging your car? It's more of the senseless, gun wielding
crazy, macho, wild west attitude of "I'll show you". Whatever happened to the concept
of having the punishment fit the crime?

I really fear for the future of this country.

[TorchTheWitch]

129. assuming you know the parents or even who the kids are

Yeah, when I was a kid it wasn't even your own parents that you had to worry about but every other parent on the block because they'd discipline you the same as your own parents would, and all the parents wanted it that way. These days it's nothing like that and maybe even why kids run so much wilder now than we did. And these days you also have to worry if that parent of the kid is a crazy with a gun and likely why the kid is like that in the first place.

And these days you don't know if those kids have weapons or would beat your ass either. I wouldn't dream of going after the obnoxious teenagers on my street myself - they're that bad and their own parents are why they are. One of the big reasons I have a big mean dog is so that assholes are reluctant to mess with either me or my property.

The world was an entirely different place when we were kids. And on Mischief night we never used eggs or mayo or anything that would be that much of a problem for someone to have on their car or their house or in their mailbox. Toilet paper, shaving cream and a bar of soap only take a scant bit of time to clean off your car, and back then people didn't have to worry they'd be fired from their job because they were late getting to work because they had to clean their car off.

I really miss those days when i was growing up. Of course we hated it at the time that it was the other parents we had to worry about being caught by more than mine (Mrs. C and Mrs. L scared the crap out of us!), and I find myself looking back on how things were then so often these days.

[Kablooie]

40. Why is shooting kids suddenly the preferred method of dealing with annoyances?

Last edited Mon Feb 17, 2014, 07:18 PM - Edit history (1)

And always white guys shooting black kids. My bad. I should read the article first.

This country seriously needs some kind of reboot.
The wheels are coming off.

[SamKnause]

44. The shooter was black.

[Kablooie]

94. Dang. I should read the full article before commenting.

I'm too quick to type.
But still using guns to deal with annoying kids seem to be increasing.

[oldhippie]

98. "I'm too quick to type."

Kinda maybe sorta like "being too quick on the trigger?"

[leftyohiolib]

49. always?

[JJChambers]

54. Wtf

It's a little racist to say it's always whites shooting blacks, don't you think??

[Lost_Count]

64. More than a little...

Reminds me of this internet gem...



Those assumptions will bite you in the ass...

[840high]

80. I'm used to it on DU.

[Lizzie Poppet]

76. "And always white guys shooting black kids."

Didn't read the article, did you?

I can't disagree about the needed reboot, though...

[840high]

79. "Always white guys" - wrong in this case.

[Skip Intro]

107. Most gun homicide is Black on Black. This shooter is Black. Facts. n/t

[ProfessorGAC]

52. Guy In My Homeroom In High School . . .

. . .shot and killed a 12 year old kid with a 30-06 for throwing a snowball at his car. My dad knew the kid's dad, and the pyscho who shot him was in my homeroom in my 3rd year of high school.

He's still in prison.

[BlueStreak]

58. That headline is misleading. It implies the girl was an innocent bystander

Reading deeper into the article, it seems she was doing the vandalism.

That doesn't justify shooting of course. But the article would be a lot more compelling if it didn't try to skew the facts.

[regnaD kciN]

89. I think you're going to see a pretty huge dichotomy of reactions to this case...

...depending on whether the one reacting was a victim of bullying and vandalism, or not.

[BlueStreak]

108. Should not be.

Obviously it is a case of second degree murder, which the defense would try to argue down to an aggravated homicide charge. I don't think anybody here would ever suggest that deadly force was justified.

I'm just saying that the article makes it sound like this was an innocent bystander in the wrong place at the wrong time. But in fact it appears she was involved in the vandalism. You cannot justify shooting anybody for vandalism. But I'm simply suggesting that those wanting to make another Trayvon / Dunn case out of this should not try to shade the facts. It isn't necessary. She was vandalizing and a guy murdered her. That's the story.

It is essentially the same story as Dunn and maybe Trayvon. We know that in the Dunn case, the eventual victims were behaving in a way that was at least irritating, if not intentionally provocative. The issue in all cases is proportion. You can't shoot a guy because his music is too loud. You can't shoot a girl because she threw an egg.

[TorchTheWitch]

132. I didn't like the article calling it a "prank" either

Pranks are funny for all involved and they're harmless. This was vandalism and not harmless nor amusing for all involved. I'd be utterly furious if that was done to my car. But whip out a gun and shoot at them? That's just crazy.

[Walk away]

61. Sadly, every moron in the world owns a gun and they are dangerous....

when poked. When I was a child I was lucky to grow up in a liberal Eastern suburb with a very low crime rate, very few guns and no one had to worry about their children being shot because they ran through someone's yard or made too much noise. It's heartbreaking that kids have to grow up this way now, if they can manage to grow up at all.

Anyone with a gun is potentially deadly to all of us. They can decide to kill in an instant and easily do it. And now it is becoming socially acceptable and legal. A national tragedy.

[anasv]

67. damaging car, second time that evening, causing a middleaged person work they may not be up to doing

The world can use fewer of the people who think that is "fun."

Should the criminalpenalty be death? No. Am I weeping over the loss of that stupid vandal? No.

[Paladin]

74. The world can use fewer people who delight in incidents such as this. (nt)

[regnaD kciN]

91. You don't need to be "delighting" in anything...

...to recognize that, sometimes, bullying and vandalism incite a tragic over-response...and one for which the bullies and vandals are at least partially responsible.

[MineralMan]

69. Awful! There are too many people with firearms

who are subject to fits of rage. I'd be plenty pissed off if some kids did that to my care, for sure. But, I can't imagine shooting at them. I'd probably speak to their parents and push to have those kids come back and clean my car inside and out while I supervised them. If that didn't work, then I'd do it myself.

Rage and excessive anger is a growing problem, for many reasons. Combined with immediate access to a firearm, it leads to tragedy.

[regnaD kciN]

92. That's assuming you know their parents...

...or that their parents won't just laugh in your face. Call the cops? Most P.D.s will tell you they have more important things to do than responding to a car being egged.

[Duckhunter935]

103. I agree with part of that

I saw my truck drive off when being stolen. 2 plus hours later the police showed up. Not exactly jonnie on the spot but not an excuse to shoot at teens. I would be more likely to take pictures if possible, kind of hard at night.

[Le Taz Hot]

71. What the fuck is wrong with these people

that they feel they have to shoot first and ask questions later? I don't understand. And this isn't even defense, it's just point and shoot. My theory is that all these gun humpers (exactly the people who SHOULDN'T own firearms) are so itchy to use their pew pew toys that they just can't help themselves. They just gotta go shoot something -- doesn't matter what, animal, person, just as long as they get to play with their toys. They disgust me, each and every one of them.

[Blue_Tires]

83. Jesus fucking christ....

When does it all end??

[Skip Intro]

106. It is dangerous to fuck with people's stuff.

It's dangerous to fuck with people.

No defense of the guy, he should have took pictures or video and pressed charges, but this wouldn't have happened had they not fucked with his stuff, for a second time that night. Now had they been on his property and refused to leave, or even tried to enter his home unannounced and uninvited, that would be a different story.

Sad situation, but it ain't smart to fuck with people or their stuff.

[Gothmog]

109. In Texas, this murder would be legal under Texas law

Back when I was in law school, it was clear that use of deadly force was never justified to protect property. The NRA and ALEC has changed this law and now it is legal to use deadly force to protect property http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/07/24/2345901/three-self-defense-laws-that-could-be-even-worse-than-stand-your-ground/

Texas: Deadly Force In Defense Of Personal Property.

Stand Your Ground laws authorize deadly force not just when an individual has reasonable fear of death; but also for fear of great bodily harm or a “forcible felony.” In many states, these provisions are potentially authorizing disproportionate force in response to a fear of crimes as low-level as third-degree assault or robbery. But even these crimes involve injury to a person.

Texas is different. In Texas, one can use deadly force not just to protect a person, but also to protect personal property, including to “retrieve stolen property at night,” during “criminal mischief in the nighttime” and even to prevent someone who is fleeing immediately after a theft during the night or a burglary or robbery, so long as the individual “reasonably” thinks the property cannot be protected by other means. This law recently garnered attention when lawyers used the provision to defend a man acquitted in the deadly shooting of an escort who refused to have sex with him. In other cases, the law has been the basis for not pressing charges against individuals who shoot and kill suspected car burglars, and an individual suspected of stealing copper wiring from a car. It is worth noting that some other states authorize the use of force to protect personal property, but not deadly force.

The shooter in this case should have murdered the young lady in Texas where he would have gotten off.

[etherealtruth]

117. Appalling, disturbing, sickening ....

[Gothmog]

118. A life is more valuable than property

The Texas legislature is controlled by the NRA and tea party types. This law really offends me. A person should not use deadly force to protect property. A life is more valuable than property

[etherealtruth]

119. It is astounding that there are people that do not see it that way

[shenmue]

126. This has got to stop

[peacebird]

127. Too bad Mr. noble wasn't white, or he could have claimed self defense

That he feared for his life with all the mayo & eggs....

<sarcasm>

[morningfog]

135. One count of a terroristic act is ridiculous.

And first degree murder is probably a stretch. I could see second degree murder.

What is wrong with these people who respond to annoyances with shooting?