If there was more of a market for seeing men's asses, you would see them.

[Bonobo]

Capitalism is dedicated to the idea that if people are willing to fork over money, they will get what they want.

Men want to look at women's asses.

If an equal number of women wanted to look at men's asses, you can be certain there would be an equal number of men's asses on magazine covers.

There's not much more to say.

It certainly seems to me that, among primates, males have evolved to accept visual clues (see "estrus&quot and to respond to them.

You can argue that it is "evolutionary psychology" and pooh-pooh it, but you will sound like a person who denies evolution.

[bettyellen]

1. LOL, we see them here all the time.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

2. yep. look there goes one now.

[Jesus Malverde]

8. That was pretty classic....

[City Lights]

9. Thread win!

[arely staircase]

11. that was really funny

bettyellen with the bon mot.

[Rowdyboy]

14. Classic one!!!!

She goes for the gold and wins!

[suffragette]

21. DUZY!

[Ohio Joe]

24. heh...

Awesome

[MrScorpio]

39. I bow to your unerring mastery of the rhetorical quip...

Impressive, most impressive.

[MADem]

44. She shoots....she SCORES!

Bettyellen for the win!

[Warren DeMontague]

51. ***

[mtnester]

54. Genius...thank you!

[myrna minx]

60. .

[cinnabonbon]

67. ...

[Whisp]

83. ROFLMAO!!! you win the Internet! n/t

[demmiblue]

84. Ha!

[kcr]

85. Haha!

[yuiyoshida]

92. DUZY!

Do we still do that?

[Bobbie Jo]

95. Okay

that was perfect.

[Coyotl]

99. DUzy!

[NuclearDem]

108. And end thread.

[JTFrog]

111. Most succinct DU post ever. n/t

[hrmjustin]

139. .

[madrchsod]

151. my.....

to you for the Most Exceptional reply i have seen in a long time...

[DanTex]

4. And all outcomes of the free market are morally unquestionable!

[snooper2]

5. Every time I think someone is checking my posterior out

I make sure my pants are pulled up LOL

[LeftyMom]

6. The difference, to be blunt, is that women don't regard dick as a public utility. nt

[Logical]

15. And in your book all men do! nt

[LeftyMom]

16. A significant portion of men are socialized to do so.

Fortunately cultural programming isn't destiny, but cleaning the cultural bullshit out of one's head is an ongoing process.

[Logical]

18. I cannot imagine your definition of "cleaning"! nt

[LeftyMom]

19. I suppose you could ask for clarification, but that would involve asking a woman

about how men treat women, and clearly that's not a thought that's ever popped into your head.

[Logical]

20. The thoughts I have center around the silly drama on the DU! nt

[Warren DeMontague]

30. I think he's actually asking how you think you're going to reprogram other peoples heads

Specifically what they happen to find sexually attractive in women.

When people promote the idea of reprogramming LGBT people, we call it out for the repressive nonsense it is.

[cui bono]

131. And I think you are giving him waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much credit.

As evidenced by his post immediately above yours.

[Warren DeMontague]

132. I'm a generous sort.

[R B Garr]

109. +1 This is exactly correct. Especially the socialization as it relates to advertising (capitalism)

Only now are you seeing biracial couples in advertising, and it wasn't until about a decade ago that black or ethinic families were featured much in advertising (capitalism) at all. Now LGBT and gay men in particular seem to be the last frontier in that regard, but that socialization is and has been slowly changing as well.

[Scootaloo]

26. Your choice of scrren name makes me giggle a lot. n/t

[Logical]

61. Like your posts do for me. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

42. Thank God for Broadband

that's all I'm sayin

[Nuclear Unicorn]

97. "Thank God for Broadband"

Don't say "broad;" it's derogatory.

[Warren DeMontague]

128. Hmmm. Yeah, I guess one could interpret it that way.

I just thought "dick as a public utility" was a pretty funny concept.

[Cali_Democrat]

7. Who are you talking to?

Seems like you're replying to an individual person.

Was this supposed to be an OP, or a reply to someone?

[bluestate10]

10. There is a primal instinct in men and women when it comes to physical features.

The shape and size of a woman's behind send subtle signals to me, IMO. Those signals aren't about sex per se, but they do involve the woman's vitality and fertility.

[arely staircase]

12. this will not "end" well. nt

[Eleanors38]

47. We need but widen the discussion.

[JI7]

13. this is some lame shit , why do you assume women don't find men's parts attractive ?

just because they don't see it as a thing to be bought and sold ?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

96. The OP didn't say women don't find men attractive. The OP -- pretty much in accord with your post --

said women don't pay to see the goodies (probably because so many are willing to share for free).

[tkmorris]

17. You are correct of course

What interests me is that it would be quite easy to acknowledge that what you say is true, and still offer a rebuttal that it should not be this way. "Yes, BUT... it leads to objectification, or it emphasizes our baser instincts, or even that men don't appear in titillating poses in part due to some other reason (I can think of a few)" and yet no one has offered any argument of this sort. Just derision. It's not particularly flattering to DU that this is so.

[seaglass]

58. Well how flattering to DU do you think it is for a poster to use the term c*ntish? After that

I would say the OP deserves nothing but derision.

[JDPriestly]

22. Men look at women. That is natural.

The problem is that our media and advertising industry is selling very specific female types as so desirable that they are harming a lot of young women.

Look at the nudes of Renoir. The women are more than pleasingly plump. Look at the Greek statues. The women are not thin as a rail. Look at the fertility statues in various ancient cultures. The women are not hourglass shaped with long eyelashes and bright red lips.

Women come in various sizes and shapes. As an older woman, I can watch men without being watched back. Men look at women in various sizes and shapes. That is healthy. What is not healthy is to sell specific types of women to young men as desirable types and selling the images as products, as commodities.

It hurts young women.

I feel I have to add something. When I was a child, the media that reached white people contained no or almost no positive portrayals of African-American women (or men). The repercussions from that fact have been devastating to a large portion of our population.

It was not just destructive to young people growing up in the African-American community. But we see from the widespread racism in our society, that it also fed misconceptions and terrible stereotypes and prejudices among vulnerable, insecure individuals who are not African-American.

The damage to our society as a whole that was caused by the media's false or non-portrayal of African-Americans is very similar to the media's false portrayal of women. Women who do not feel they look like the desirable models that make the swim-suit edition are harmed.

Men, think about that when you judge the beauty, the desirability or lack of desirability and beauty of the women around you. Is your judgment really yours? Or are you just responding to the sales pitch of the media? Dare to feel and think for yourself about this issue. Try to find the woman who is right for you, not the woman who is right for the editor of some magazine or internet page.

Young women are most injured by the media's rather narrow definition of feminine beauty, but young men are also victimized by it. Hey! You know that chubby girl who is sweet but shy, maybe kind of funny with a sense of humor and sits a couple of seats away in class. If you got to know her, you might find out that she has a devastating beauty inside her.

Marilyn Monroe would probably appear a bit chubby by today's standards. But she was the ideal when I was young. I really never met anyone who measured up (pun intended) to the hype and glossy pictures of Marilyn Monroe. She met a tragic ending. Women are so much more than their physical bodies. So that is why the fuss about the swim-suit edition. It is part of the misleading media about women.

[Eleanors38]

50. A thoughtful reply. I find swimsuit editions and similar such stuff...

more offensive because of there blatant, lights flashing appeal. It has an archaic ring. Yes, the women featured were pretty, but most of even that was in their respective, happy & confident faces.

Frankly, I am attracted most sharply to large rear ends; the marketeers have missed me, but there are some web sites which specialize in this. Otherwise, I enjoy the parade of life & a good belly dance now and again.

[bemildred]

55. +1. nt

[BlancheSplanchnik]

113. So well said. And an OP about the negative effects of media's historical ugly representations

of African Americans would never meet with attacks from Caucasians, the way (mostly female) posters trying to explain sexism, objectification get trashed and snarked.

The people who always complain that no one's explaining themselves as befits a good, intelligent progressive won't read your post.

[kcr]

135. This is a good post

And I've noticed no one who defends Bonobo has replied to it. That's telling.

[Harmony Blue]

141. What many women fail to realize

is that most straight men like, short petite, curvy women. That is why most porn stars are curvy and why they use curvature of lenses to distort the curves and shapes of a woman and/or men in the pornography industry. Sasha Gray did not have a curvy figure, so she made up by doing outrageous pornographic scenes. So much so, that she became disgusted by it enough that she quit.

The rail thin female models that are tall tend to be marketed towards women on the other hand that model lingerie and female clothing.

This notion that most men like females to be thin is not true or else most porn stars would be just like female models.

[nomorenomore08]

144. Thank you! Way to cut through all the ridiculous strawmen about "prudishness" et. al.

The problem is not sex, nor even sexualized imagery per se. As with a lot of things, the problem arises when you try to shove people into these little boxes they're never going to fit anyway.

It's the difference between merely finding a woman attractive, versus putting her down when she doesn't fit your narrow idea of attractiveness. And anyone who can't see the difference there is probably hopeless.

[Travis_0004]

152. The reason women tend to be plump in ancient artwork is because that was considered ideal

If you go back into ancient history, a lot of people went hungry. They didn't eat a lot, and worked hard jobs. People were less likely to be overweight.

Being overweight was a sign of wealth. It meant you had abundant food, and didn't spend all day working manual labor.

[JDPriestly]

154. Fashions and concepts of beauty change over time.

Women used to wear bustles. When I was growing up we wore girdles, even as teenagers.

Bustles make the hips look larger. Girdles are supposed to squeeze them in and make them look smaller.

How about we just be ourselves and take fashion and commercial concepts of beauty a little less to heart?

[RobertEarl]

23. War is good for the economy

That's why men make war. I don't see a whole lot of women making war.

Funny, is it not, that we can freely watch movies of men making war, but not movies of men making love.

There are a few more important endeavors to discuss than pictures of a woman's pert butt. At least that's what I was thinking the other day. Guess I was wrong?

[greymattermom]

25. tight ends

Well, many of the women I know who watch football look at the tight ends. There is a market for men's asses, a huge one.

[In_The_Wind]

59. Indeed!

[yuiyoshida]

94. Tight Ends...

I WONDER who was the brilliant person who came up for that nomenclature for a position in football? What the hell does that mean anyway??

[one_voice]

98. Wide receivers used to be...

split ends, because they lined up outside the formation split away from the offensive line. When it became more common for bigger guys to run routes, catch, as well as block, they began lining them up on the end of the offensive line but not out wide so the term became tight end rather than split end.

[yuiyoshida]

101. Well eveyone knows there is a cure for split ends...

Thanks for that... I wondered where that came from. Leave it to the NFL to deal with split and tight ends!

[GoCubsGo]

120. You beat me to it!

That's the ONLY reason I watch football! And, I know I am far from the only one.

[LostOne4Ever]

27. I would guess this doesn't work beccause

The male dominated corporate culture probably has convinced itself that because THEY don't like it means the average consumer does not like it. The psychology of those at the top also plays a role.

For example, around 40% of gamers are females. But the VAST majority of games are marketed only at males. How does that make any sense economically? There are games featuring female characters that do well, but the industry still makes the vast majority of their games featuring male heroes. The industry has convinced themselves that the only way to make a profit is to ignore or objectify 2/5 of its own customers.

The invisible hand of Adam Smith is not all knowing or benevolent. Sometimes it pushes things that are good for the bottom line but bad for society. Sometimes its myopic and goes for short-term gains at the cost of long term. Ultimately it is still a social construct and it is affected by our society's overall psychology, sociology, and prejudices.

I guess what im trying to say is that there is probably a market for it, but those at the top have convinced themselves there isn't one.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

114. well said.

when the corporations are primarily female at all levels, and men occupy mostly the lowest rungs, the norms will change.

[cliffordu]

28. Well. Fuck Me, Bonobo.

We agree again.

Feels kind of weird but I'll take it.

You are completely correct IMNSHO.

[joshcryer]

29. The market tells people what they want to see.

We will see mens asses once the market sufficiently adapts to coerce women into liking looking at mens asses to the same level that men have been coerced into liking looking at womens asses.

If that is a convoluted sentence, I am sorry, but it is the best way I can put it.

You look at man vs woman porn. Men have historically looked at visual pornography, women have historically read erotic texts.

Except there appears to be a shift in the consumption of pornography or erotica and actually women are becoming more attuned to the visual side of things.

What you are arguing is basically for the status quo, the archaic way of erotic consumption, which is untenable and it will change. Until the markets adapt and provide that visual stimulation that women desire as much as men but have been prevented from having, then it won't exist.

[Major Nikon]

33. How do you coerce anyone into liking anything?

I'm not sure how that works.

I can see how someone can be culturally influenced into feeling that something is dirty or wrong. Certain groups like organized religion are often masters of it.

[joshcryer]

35. You inundate their visual cortex?

Read this paper: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2739403/

[Major Nikon]

43. “When a man cannot chose, he ceases to be a man.”

[Bonobo]

52. Were the ancient Greeks' visual cortexes inundated as well?

What about other societies throughout history that fetishized the female buttocks?

I know you feel like you have to defend your opinion now that you have stated it, but you HAVE to know when you have chosen a dumb argument sometimes too you know.

[joshcryer]

74. I'm talking about market influences.

I'm not confident the Greek markets had similar mechanisms. Unless you are arguing for a return to boy fucking.

I think the elites ran things their own way and ultimately the plebs didn't have the same kind of debased relationships sexually.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

103. A few points

1. Just putting something on a store shelf doesn't create a demand. Plenty of would-be entrepreneurs have learned this the hard way.

2. Ancient cultures dealt in sexual imagery and this was not a thing confined to the upper class. Even poor people like to knock sandals because -- well -- it's inexpensive.

3. Plebs were Roman, not Greek.

[joshcryer]

124. The OP was concerning markets.

Not culture. I argue that markets help shape culture. And that's why we have individuals who are sold on a given consumer concept, such as women being objects. We don't see that in quite a few other cultures. Western media, however, permeates a huge swath of human society, so it's almost ubiquitous, and it's difficult to find counterexamples.

Pederasty was almost exclusive to the upper class. Greeks had to ask permission from the boys parent, so, you wouldn't expect a commoner to be able to get such a relationship easily. I envision that it was upper class folk who could just pick some kid off the street and take them back to get off.

"Pleb" was used generally. And even if you wanted to get pedantic, the Romans were pederasts too, but they only screwed slaves. Free born boys were excluded. So I think that pederasty had a social class element to it, and it wouldn't really fall under a market category.

I think it's unfortunate that we have stigmatized visual cues, and would be in agreement with the OP if he suggested that, but I disagree that there would be a market for such things for a given gender if there was a demand for it, because I think the market introduces those concepts to culture and I believe that hasn't happened for for women for most of modern civilization. There is, however, a prospect for it to start happening because we see that in certain outlets where consumers are demanding more realistic imagery (see the X Art stuff or if you want to go down that road, Kink's stuff, which many women find attractive, also, James Deen has a following with women).

Visual objectivation doesn't have to be exclusive to males, and that's what I'm arguing against the OP. I blame the way markets function for that.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

125. "I argue that markets help shape culture."

You have that backwards.

[joshcryer]

127. Why did markets focus on one breadwinner / money maker for so long?

If they aren't fundamental at shaping culture?

Wouldn't markets magically want to maximize their productivity and have men and women on equal economic footing?

Why don't women get paid as much as men for the same kinds of work? That would maximize productivity.

[joeglow3]

106. Re-read your post

You clearly tried to use the oldest trick in the book (look over there) to deflect from what was clearly pointed out (namely, your position was wrong).

[Bonobo]

34. Bonobo estrus

Our closest living relative.



Were male bonobos tricked by the media into THINKING they are attracted to a female bonobo's hindquarters?

[joshcryer]

36. Interestingly, I discovered this is a very rare evolutionary development.

So, no.

Humans aren't bonobo's, Bonobo.

The cues for humans are a lot less evident. In the case of bonobo's females runts are red, which indicates fertility, there is no human analog (probably because human males are fertile until death and the fertile range for women is very large, only a few days they can't get pregnant; yes, despite common convention human women are able to be impregnated during their periods, the lasting lifetime of sperm is up to a week).

You have a very myopic view of human pornographic or erotic consumption. It's been mostly targeted to males for the past couple of centuries. Women have mostly taken a back seat until the past 20-30 years or so. Literally in the whole span of human civilization (even the Greeks thought boys were more enjoyable than women or girls).

[Bonobo]

40. In the case of bonobos, you are incorrect.

Bonobos are always sexually available and they always have genital swelling.

And you have a very myopic view of homo sapien exceptionalism.

[joshcryer]

46. The bonobo estrous cycle is defined.

You are simply ignorant.

Concealed ovulation is a trait that human females have, unlike bonobos.

You presume a mostly hairless red rump means anything, when in actuality for the species it is very explicit when it matters. Rump doesn't mean hump, Bonobo.

[Bonobo]

49. Bonobos are sexually receptive even when not in estrus.

Humans lost of distinct estrus is in fact paralleled by the bonobo's INDISTINCT period of sexual availability.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_ovulation

I do not presume that a hairless red rump means anything, except something that millions of years of evolution have contributed to being attractive to males.

The fact that ovulation among human females is now concealed is probably a strategy to reduce infanticide by making the paternity of the infant unclear.

But they are still attractive and no, it is not simply because we have all been brainwashed. The ridiculousness of your theory is born out by the long history of female buttocks fetishism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_history_of_the_buttocks

[RainDog]

107. bonobos don't always have genital swelling

bonobos have evolved to use sex as a form of social communication. they, like humans, have sex for reasons other than reproduction. if bonobos always had genital swelling, it would mean they are always ovulating - and this is not the case.

For bonobos, a few seconds of sex is like a hug among humans - it accomplishes the same goal. Our society does not condone their version - but there's no indication we would adopt their version even if it were acceptable (tho there is an indication we would not be quite so obsessed with what women choose to do with their sexuality.) So, to say they have sex often doesn't mean they have passionate sex all the time - it means they use stimulation of sexual organs as a form of peace-making and a way to deal with aggression between members of a community.

so, to make a claim that human sexual behavior is like bonobo sexual behavior misrepresents both of our species.

socially, this makes bonobos like humans - for one reason - but sex is not the only definition of behaviors. There are other basic behaviors, but they're not as interesting to talk about a lot of times because... it's fun to talk about sex, for many people, me included.

But behavior isn't the only indication of relatedness. Genetically, we share just about the same amount of DNA with bonobos as we do with common chimps - and they share more genes - BUT differences exist between humans and each of the two chimp species... i.e. on different parts of the genome we share characteristics with bonobos and on other parts we share characteristics with common chimp. Chimps and bonobos have differences between their genomes, as well, of course, of they wouldn't be different species.

I really think this whole thing comes down to you saying that your and other het males' attraction to females is just part of nature... so maybe that's where you should have kept it. It's gone from that to misrepresentations about the bonobo claim to just... idiotic arguments to score points for x or y.

[Major Nikon]

48. Actually the cues for humans are a lot more evident

Humans are the only mammals that retain permanently enlarged breasts.

Eroticism to the greeks, both for males and females was considered mainstream, perfectly normal and as far as Western culture goes (and most of Eastern culture) had no stigma against it until the Victorian age. The Greeks didn't consider boys more enjoyable. There was just no taboo against it so those that wanted that sort of thing weren't precluded. It mostly existed in the form of pederasty between religious teachers and students.

[joshcryer]

77. Enlarged breasts are a fat store, not a sexual organ.

The greeks had a saying that went like, "boys are for lovers women are companions."

[seabeyond]

81. boobs are created solely cause man was used to looking at ass, so evolution made boobs for the boys

and feeding is secondary.

right?

[Warren DeMontague]

37. "have been prevented from having"?

No one is preventing anyone from starting hotdudebutts.com -- in fact, if I had to wager, I'd say it already exists.

Nor is anyone or anything except perhaps startup capital preventing anyone from creating a print magazine devoted solely to shapely male butts. What you say about "women desire as much as men but have been prevented from having" sounds like a real market opportunity.

Perhaps a kickstarter?

[joshcryer]

72. Right, but 50-100 years ago women were seen as nonsexual

While men used women as prostitutes there was no real analog for women until the vibrator came along. And then it was discreet.

Note: I am talking about specifically western culture here.

[Warren DeMontague]

76. That really has nothing to do with whether or not there is a market for magazines with men's butts

if there is, and one such magazine doesn't exist, someone should get on it.

[joshcryer]

79. The market helps shape culture.

Remember when Twilight came out? Remember how women who were fans got made fun of for liking seeing shirtless guys?

Then the MRAs came out incredulous that yours poor boys were being objectified...

[Warren DeMontague]

129. I don't understand your second sentence.

However, I also don't give a flying fuck what "MRAs" think.

Twilight seems to have done just fine, in terms of popularity and sales. I made fun of it because it was shit writing.

[bemildred]

56. The market hyper-stimulates basic impulses for its own purposes.

Whatever works best, sex, violence, social conflicts, status anxiety.

[edbermac]

31. Here's a picture of a man's ass.

What's the big deal?

\

[Warren DeMontague]

38. Oh, thank God.

I was wondering what time it was.

[TheMathieu]

32. My ass is too large for women to objectify.

I shall run out and protest the objectification of Calvin Klein models immediately.

If they won't look at mine, then by god I will raise hell.

[Bonobo]

45. Makes no sense.

You see bright white shiny teeth everywhere.

[Warren DeMontague]

53. What a fucking nightmare THAT would be.

"That's it, I'm swearing off psychedelics for good!"

[WinkyDink]

57. Oh, there's a market; it just isn't acceptable in Middle-America's man-caves----ostensibly.

[Blue_Adept]

62. Having just seen Magic Mike for the first time...

Women definitely like to look at men's butts.

And it's been known for years.

But it's largely been socially unacceptable because for women to show an interest in men sexually has long been ingrained in our culture as a no-no. Varying levels and degrees of acceptability of course.

But whenever we get strip club material, for example, it's always the different dynamic from a men's strip club to a women's strip club. I've always found that interesting, though a good part of it is just Hollywood portrayal, but it's rooted in a truth. Men tend to just watch quietly in the majority of your regular strip clubs. Women are going out as a group to party and live it up since they don't do it often in that venue and really go over the top since it's now, for once, socially acceptable to look at men sexually and it's a group reinforced dynamic.

A lot of men would not like to be looked at in that way because it would cause them to realize they do the same to women.

But what do I know. I'm a guy. I'm always looking at the world around me and I look at a lot of asses across both genders. Largely because they're right there in front of me throughout the day as I'm walking along in crowds.

[Tsiyu]

63. I probably shouldn't do this BUT

I have to give a shoutout to bettyellen and to joshcryer and to you.

bettyellen for her delightful wit and joshcryer for reason and you for your nice booty... I mean! your thoughtfulness.

OP's line of reasoning is the same I hear when I complain about no Democratic voices on the radio. "But there's no market for Democrats on the radio," the wingnuts claim. If this is true, why did the majority of American voters elect Obama not once but twice? Do American voters elect a Democrat but secretly prefer to listen to Glenn Beck and Rush demean the man they voted for?

Or do the PTB decide what is marketed on the airwaves, despite what is desired by the marketplace?

A very dear friend has gotten me addicted to Boardwalk Empire. The first season, there was lots of female nudity, and I complained to my friend about it as we were watching. "Where's MY eye candy, dammit!" He is twenty years my junior, and you know what he said?

"I think about that every time I see nudity in a show. How unfair that is."

There followed a discussion on the issue; because he is a very enlightened guy, he gets it. "Why turn the men and women on who like female bodies, but leave those who like male bodies out in the cold?"

Seems in the 21st century we'd offer both sides some eye candy.

"But don't worry," he says. "They figure that out."

Boy do they ever! Lots of great guy buttocks and near full frontals in the subsequent seasons.
Ooolala! Me like! Yeah, I'm turned on!

I think it's adorable that even in 2014, some men think women aren't visually stimulated by the objects of their desire and that some guys still use the most inane arguments to try to prove it to themselves.

It's so cute. But sorry to inform some of you: We like. We look. We get turned on. We just don't flaunt it or try to embarrass our partners over it. Or hurt their delicate feelings. Why? Perhaps because we've pretty much been socialized not to divest the male ego of its particular delusions. Younger men seem to have more open minds, not having been raised with the Madonna/Whore complexes ( good girls don't really LIKE sex!!! ) of many of my male contemporaries, so I have hope that women in the future won't have to hear this archaic rationale from men.

That males don't offer more male ass in the marketplace says more about the marketplace - and about men's fantasies of what women think - than about women.

Now I am logging off the DU to get some work done.

Have a nice day, and keep this pleasant discussion going. It was worth a lurk today....

Cheers

[BlancheSplanchnik]

115. I gotta add you to your list of shoutouts!

great post

[Tsiyu]

136. Thanks Sister

I love your posts, too.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

137. geeeeeee!

Thanks!

[dsc]

119. I am not saying there is no market for liberals on the radio

but the fact that we won the last couple elections is no proof of that one way or the other. I would guess that talk radio has an audience that is more white and more male than the electorate as a whole which would make it much more conservative than the electorate as a whole. I do think that there is some blacklisting going on but I also think there is not nearly as much a market for liberal talk radio.

[treestar]

75. Exactly! We would be called "forward" or today, "desperate."

It's hilarious how they will use the very results of male supremacy and evidence that male supremacy is natural.

[In_The_Wind]

64. I don't think I would go as far as to buy a magazine with men's asses on the cover.

But I've already stated on DU that I do enjoy watching men. Especially ones with a nice butt and well developed thighs. Yes, my mind will respond to a certain type of man, one who appeals to me sexually. I see nothing wrong with that.

[loli phabay]

69. well speaking as someone who has one hell of an ass and legs, i thank you on behalf of all like

myself who appreciate your lustful look.

[In_The_Wind]

70. My pleasure.

yes, indeed

[Hosnon]

65. For fuck's sake.

Gay men exist. And male asses are hugely popular.

[nomorenomore08]

146. +1

Not gay myself but I think the focus of the OP is more than a bit myopic.

[B2G]

66. Why the hell do you think I watch football?

[pipi_k]

71. Awesome...

that's pretty much what I was going to reply too!


Well-toned asses. Spandex.


What more is there to say?


PS...the same goes for male ballet dancers and male figure skaters

[loli phabay]

68. you just need to go to the right places and you will see tonnes of guy ass.

[treestar]

73. You're overlooking the reason for that

It's that men have been given that "privilege" for centuries. We haven't had a chance to catch up. And having been objectified, maybe we simply are not vengeful and don't want to do that same thing to others?

[JustAnotherGen]

78. +1000

But I'm not going to lie to myself or anyone else and pretend that Lenoardo Dicaprios nekkid butt didnt totally captivate me in The Wolf Of Wall Street. Twice we've seen it and twice my husband said I leaned forward in my seat like if I got closer I was going to see more. I know - I'm not helping. But I disagree with the premise of the o.p.

[JI7]

80. but this is exactly it, it's not about whether one finds something attractive

and women DO find men's asses and other parts attractive. but i'm sure you didn't think it meant you could treat him as some object and less than human.

[JustAnotherGen]

88. Absolutely not

But seeing as my husband was with me - I ought to be ashamed of myself. I have a husband. I had an awesome dad. I adore my brother and nephews. And that means something to me and how I treat men.

[Liberal_in_LA]

90. plus one

[Whisp]

82. yeh, like women have always been the rulers on Madison Avenue

and the boardrooms of history.

weak sauce.

[Blue Owl]

86. Maybe it's just me...

But men's butts are so much less interesting than women's...

[R B Garr]

87. This is just laughable! You're taking the reproductive characteristics of apes

Last edited Sun Feb 16, 2014, 10:14 PM - Edit history (1)

and comparing it to capitalism?! That's LOL. How intellectually dishonest can you get. "Males have evolved..." to respond to visual clues. Uh, no, not as it relates to advertising. They have been CONDITIONED to respond to visual clues relating to capitalism ---because that's what is presented. They will be "evolved" when they don't respond like apes to any visual clues, and that means that most men mature to accept that they cannot be selfish and crude jerks about their sexuality, as women tend to dislike that and there are laws against lewd behavior. That's not saying that people aren't attracted to each other. Of course they are, and you would have to be pretty dense to think that anyone is suggesting otherwise. Yet this obsession with being obtuse about what women are saying seems to perpetuate here, of all places. Go figure.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

116. obsession with being obtuse about what women are saying

yep.

It's like they are obsessed with defending the right they seem to think they have, to be crude publicly. They're so offended as to become irrational and incapable of reading while scrambling to defend their "rights".

Women aren't trying to take away their right to --crude word that would start a disingenuous conflagration--. We just wish they would stop insisting they have a right to do --crude word that would start a disingenuous conflagration-- in our faces!

[cui bono]

130. Good post. I would add that they are being played and are buying into the marketing ploy

that tells them if they buy that item they too will get the "hot woman". You know what they say, a fool and his money are soon parted. And falling for this marketing makes them fools. And we know they are falling for it because it happens so much. If it wasn't working the marketing campaigns would use different tactics.

So the OP is really admitting that men are weak and can't help but respond at such a base level. Not giving men much credit there. If I were a man I might just be insulted by the OP.

[flamingdem]

89. This thread is useless without pictures

[seabeyond]

91. powerful visual. might get boinked.... just sayin. nt

[loli phabay]

93. lol, im not into pear shaped myself, prefer an hour glass figure.

[lumberjack_jeff]

100. It is apparent that there is a market for seeing men *as* asses.

It sells soap.

[Bonobo]

104. Who needs soap?

I just buy it for the boxes.

[mimi85]

102. Maybe I'm weird,

however I like looking at a man's eyes and smile more than other body parts.

[Bonobo]

105. That's not weird.

And it would be weird if you liked to look at both as most people do, either.

[JTFrog]

110. Yea, evolution is also the reason women aren't attracted to short men.

See how that works.

[JI7]

112. .

[Bonobo]

117. Thanks for making my point. nt

[JTFrog]

118. You're welcome.

Thanks for recognizing mine.

[GoCubsGo]

122. There's enough of a market for stuff like this...

http://whatshisbutt.blogspot.com/

[ismnotwasm]

123. A little libertarian much?

You really think women don't look? And you're ignoring oh, millennia of history but it's ok. You go and think your thinks

[NuclearDem]

126. Evolution has also caused us to be wary of others not like us.

So if we're just giving into our primordial programming and not making use of our higher reasoning, we should expect a huge market for racist magazines as well.

[nomorenomore08]

148. So you think we should just "evolve" past all that icky sex stuff?

I suspect - or I hope anyway - that that's not what you're saying, but it could be easily twisted into such.

[NuclearDem]

149. Absolutely not.

What I'm saying is that just because it was programmed into us through evolution, we shouldn't let it control us and let it harm people around us.

[nomorenomore08]

150. Okay, thanks for the clarification. I wasn't trying to paint you in a bad light, believe me.

And I agree that, in general, we should emphasize the better aspects of our natures - kindness, interdependence - rather than the negative aspects - aggression, selfishness. There's nothing inherently bad about the human libido, but it should be balanced with other considerations too.

[liberal_at_heart]

133. Plenty of women enjoy looking at men's asses. I know I do. My latest celebrity crush is

Daniel Craig. The way that tight fitting button up shirt shows off his shoulders and back in the new Bond movies, and the way his pants show off his rear, and those blue eyes. Oh my goodness.

[Major Nikon]

134. There's also plenty of women looking at women's asses

...and plenty of men looking at men's asses.

Meanwhile the promise of moral decay as a result has either already happened or never will depending on how you want to look at it, much to the chagrin of those who seek to turn the clock back on the sexual revolution.

[JTFrog]

138. What are you talking about?

Turn back the clock on the sexual revolution?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_revolution

Coincide with the Second-wave Feminism or the Women's Liberation Movement initiated in the early 1960s; the sexual liberation movement was aided with the vast and inexhaustible radical feminist ideologies to explicitly challenge the conventional view on female and queer sexuality. The eradication of sexual objectification of women, and advocation of consensual sexual intimacy for women, as well as the rectification of the normalized androcentric culture were the main themes associated with sexual liberation from the feminist perspective. Since during the early stages of contemporary feminist movement, women's liberation was often equated with sexual liberation rather than associated with it, and many feminist thinkers believed that assertion of the primacy of sexuality would be a libratory gesture, thus women were urged to initiate sexual advances, to enjoy sex, to experiment with new relationships, and hence to be sexually free.[15] Therefore, the feminist movements insisted and focused on the sexual liberation for women, both physical and psychological. The appropriation and rightful pursuit of sexual pleasures for women was the core ideology, which subsequently sets the foundation to allow women's' independence and insurrection from male dominance and manipulation. Although whether or not sexual freedom should be a feminist issue is currently a much-debated topic,[15] the feminist theory overtly defines itself as the movement for social, political, and economic quality of men and women.[16] Consequently, the feminist movement to end sexual oppression directly contributed to the sexual liberation movements.

Furthermore, feminist movements are also accountable to the fight against Sexism. Since sexism is a highly complex notion,[17] it is inefficient to separate the feminist critique toward sexism from its fight against sexual oppression. Thus, the foundational feminist ideals is one of the core theoretical support within the sexual liberation movement, rather than the peripheral. As the feminist movement to end sexual oppression has create a social climate in which lesbians and gay men are no longer oppressed, a climate which their sexual choices are affirmed, a climate that also affirmes the freedom of heterosexual practice for women,[15] it enacted the spiritual liberation in the realm of sex, and served as a vessel to explian and analyze sexual liberation, which is a movement occurred based on much more than the mere liberation of pleasures and desires.

[Major Nikon]

143. Reality vs ideology

Like it or not the sexual revolution happened, and not in the way some would have liked. Furthermore the notion of sex and feminism isn't as monolithic as some may believe.

From your same link:

The fact that pornography was less stigmatised by the end of the 1980s, and more mainstream movies depicted sexual intercourse as entertainment, was indicative of how normalised sexual revolution had become in society. Magazines depicting nudity, such as the popular Playboy and Penthouse magazines, won some acceptance as mainstream journals, in which public figures felt safe expressing their fantasies.

Feminists have offered mixed responses to pornography. Some figures in the feminist movement, such as Andrea Dworkin, challenged the depiction of women as objects in these pornographic or "urban men's" magazines. Other feminists such as [div style="display:inline; background-color:#FFFF66;"]Betty Dodson

went on to found the pro-sex feminist movement in response to anti-pornography campaigns.

She is a founder of the pro-sex feminist movement,[citation needed] having left behind the more traditional feminist movement because she considered it banal, antisexual and over-politicized. Dodson considers too much is made of sexual labels and embraces them all by calling herself a heterosexual, bisexual lesbian. She looks forward to the day we can all be just "sexual.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_Dodson

[hrmjustin]

140. I like looking at men but I don't post pictures of half naked men on this site though.

[anti partisan]

142. A lot of this is a product of our patriarchal, sexist society - not biology/evolution

When men lust over multiple women, it's just men being men. Having sexual relationships with multiple women is a sign of success.

When women lust over multiple men, they are sluts, whores, etc. It is woman's role to find one man to be submissive to.

This disgusting double standard makes it not only socially acceptable, but a sign of manhood to buy things like SI Swimsuit Edition, while if a woman was to buy a magazine of "men's asses", they'd be looked at as a cheap whore. And yes, there are many magazines geared towards women which showcase many pictures of topless men but they are more subtly hidden within the magazine so that women don't feel ashamed of their purchases. Otherwise there wouldn't be as many sales.

To pretend like this is biology rather than society is ignoring reality.

[nomorenomore08]

147. Which just tells me that, ideally, neither gender's innate sex drive should be stigmatized.

Neither men nor women should be shamed for being "oversexed" - yes, violation of others' boundaries should be frowned upon, of course, but that is not a problem of the libido, rather a problem of one's attitudes and behaviors.

[FiveGoodMen]

155. "not biology/evolution"

"it's just men being men"

Sounds like they contradict each other.

[Chan790]

145. One word response.

Horseshit.

Please don't attempt to use biology to justify your sexism. It comes across as creepy as my classmate from HS that went to prison for being a serial date-rapist. His justification was also biology.

[liberalmuse]

153. I was raised better than to view human beings as objects...

to lure at for my sexual pleasure. Some people weren't, and on top of that, were encouraged and taught by example how to leer and grab. How many women here had their ass grabbed before they even got out of grade school? How many females here were only children when a guy pulled out his dick to show them? I guess being raised that you must be pure for that "right man" while at the same time being treated like a piece of meat to be grabbed, whistled at, lured at and exposed to time and time again will make you more sensitive about doing the same to others.