On the subject of rape jokes and how far you feel comedy can go

[JonLP24]

what does DU think of this clip. Do you think it shouldn't have been made a long with all the other of rape jokes that "shouldn't be made"? There are other issues I'd like to bring up with it as well.

It is from the show It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia where the gang purchased a boat and Dennis & Mac are the hardware store shopping for repairs for the really crappy boat. Here Dennis brings up a reason why he wanted a boat.

Too far?

My honest reaction was the parts where Dennis makes sure to make the point 'If she says no then the answer is no but she isn't going to say no, because of the implication.' The implication that things might wrong if she refuses to sleep with him. He makes sure to say "things aren't going to go wrong with her" but adds that she "isn't thinking that". I found the second half of those statements funny in that he is saying "no means no" but follows it up with his sociopathic logic which is ongoing source of comedy through the series.

I think it was effective in other ways as I feel there is grain of truth of what goes on in the world out there. I don't think like that but I do wonder about people who do create scenarios like this? Sex by "implication"? Would this be considered "rape" by itself, I understand not really legally because she didn't say no but is it because she was too scared to say no? Rape by "implication"?

On edit - I don't really consider this a "rape joke" as rape isn't the source of the comedy here but Dennis' twisted logic.

[seabeyond]

1. i think it is creepy and reinforce for our young men not to take no, and

to encourage that impression that things may go wrong for a girl and the simple fuckn fact that some pig male is willing to rape to get sex and that is all this is, and he is "normal". i think the whole things is disgustng in different ways.

fuck....

[JonLP24]

4. The thing about the show

is Dennis, is far from normal. None of the main characters are "normal" but Dennis is the furthest from normal from "the gang". Mac the other person

He is an obvious sociopath with such a ridiculously inflated ego. Show does anything but to make things appear normal.

I appreciate your view, I could imagine all sorts of different opinions when I first saw this as is it flirts with the "line" and a good chance crossed it.

[seabeyond]

8. it is disgusting. it is this trash, that i do not watch tv.

now my teen son will want me to watch shows with him. and we discuss this. this garbage that we feed society that is a continued attack on women all the fuckin time, never ending, that is always being fed to our boys. and plenty of shows that may have sexual themes, but t is not at the expense of women.

i got a 1 minute clip of the show. i have no idea what it is. that one minute clip is the ugly we are continuously feeding our teen boys at the expense of our girls.

that is the only info i have on the show. this would not be one my boys watched.

[Gravitycollapse]

2. This is black comedy meant to denigrate Dennis as a sexual psychopath.

Rape jokes are the exact opposite of what is going on in that clip. Rape jokes are meant to justify and evolve sexual violence against women, not mock it.

[JonLP24]

5. I wouldn't consider it much as a "rape joke" myself

I just couldn't think of better words to use to discuss the subject of the clip.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

10. do you follow the show? sounds like you know this character's background.

[Gravitycollapse]

15. I have seen every episode at least twice.

[TDale313]

3. Seriously creepy, and no, not funny.

[linuxman]

6. Personally,

I feel that there is absolutely nothing off limits in the name of comedy, period. Provided that words remain words and you aren't physically hurting someone in the commission of your joke, there are no limits, IMO. Not only is nothing sacred, but EVERYTHING may be said. I'll probably catch shit for it, but who cares? It's a shame that this thread is specifically about rape. I want to make it clear that I feel this way about comedy and jokes in general. Nothing is sacred. There is no joke or routine too offensive. There are only funny and unfunny jokes/comedy. Sometimes tasteless is funny.

[JonLP24]

11. I knew I had to be very careful in how I worded the opening of this post

I simply wanted thoughts and opinions of the clip I posted as it certainly is it certainly does approach of the area that is considered by some to be an unacceptable area of comedy, I'm open to suggestions to changing the opening of my OP as I don't want it be specifically about rape as well as I don't think rape is the source of the comedy here.

[linuxman]

13. Gotcha NT

[seabeyond]

12. and equally.no comedian is protected from those that speak out against the garbage they spew.

because you feel they have the right to say what ever the fuck they want, does not mean there will not be equal repercussions for them to say whatever the fuck they want.

then fine... but, to suggest there should be no criticism when they spew their shit, would be a hypocrite.

[linuxman]

16. Never said it was a one way street.

There are no jokes off limits, there are no outcrys off limits. Words are just words. I never said that comedians were above reproach, I just stated that nothing should be off limits in terms of jokes. Then again, I don't believe there should be limits on any form of speech (very small caveats apply).

[seabeyond]

17. are youa white male. and ya. it matters. on this issue, for a white male to tell us that words

are just words.

so, like carlin, are you a white male?

[Jesus Malverde]

7. "rape joke"

"The woman must not of had any sense of humor"

[Tuesday Afternoon]

9. Twisted. I don't follow the show but, that one minute of character did not present him

in the best of light.

I hope the writers are planning an arc for this character's storyline.

plot twist.

downward spiral.

Janie's got a gun.

Now then, That would be dark. you know ....

the implication and all.

[JonLP24]

19. The character Dennis is a sociopath with a ridiculously inflated ego

Whenever this group of friends have some sort of plan (like trying to win a dance competition). Dennis is the least loyal and will stab whoever and anyone in the back to achieve what his selfish goals are.

In episodes where they have other characters that are most often normal really show how foolish everyone and ends with everyone falling flat on their faces like when "the gang" tries to sell the bar or the "gang reignites a rivalry"

[Tuesday Afternoon]

20. yes, well ... I got the sociopath. but, I don't understand what you are getting at with the OP

are you saying that sociopaths don't rape ... ??

because it sounds to me that this is exactly what Dennis is planning to do.

the intent.

first degree.

I really do not care for sociopaths, at all.

[JonLP24]

23. I'm not making that argument at all

I was just describing the character as you said that the clip was all you gather from who the character is and you hoped for a particular story arc for him and was trying to say his inflated ego usually ends with him falling flat on his face in episodes.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

25. to arc ... as in to see him grow and evolve as a human being which from what you are saying

is not going to happen. an ineffective sociopath .... is funny because it goes against type.

most sociopaths are very effective at what they set out to do.

[JonLP24]

27. He is effective a lot of the times

There was an episode where they were at a garbage dump and ran into this couple collecting aluminum and care about the environment. He manipulates the boyfriend to chain himself to a tree (to stop a bulldozer) by offering to do it (it impressed his girlfriend) and he ends up spending the night with her while the boyfriend was tied up to a tree all night by raining.

He is generally affective, the gang usually cause him to fail by exploiting his ego. In the "D.E.N.N.I.S. system" which was another example of the manipulation and tricks he plays on women showed he was having success but his grand plan failed spectacularly which required the other gangs participation and they all failed in their roles (such as his sister Dee getting stabbed instead of "the waitress" which was designed for Charlie to save "the waitress&quot

[Tuesday Afternoon]

28. I refer back to my original thought process.

[JoeyT]

30. There really isn't much of a spiral to go down.

The whole joke is that pretty much everyone on the show is awful. The only one anyone that watches it really has any sympathy for is Charlie, who is the idiot/glue huffer character, and the only one that isn't actively horrible. I'd describe it as excessively dark surreal humor.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

33. yes, I got that after reading more in the thread.

actually, death would be a release for the character.

What I don't get is him saying the joke was not about rape

because from that snippet

I took away

a man who was openly planning a rape and was involving his friend to be a willing participant (who was making sounds of protest)
but, I could see Dennis breaking down the walls.


I got the impression that, in the end, the guy would go along with Dennis' plans.

amirite?

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

14. Amy Schumer has some interesting things to say

AS: I think rape jokes are fine, but I also think rape is fine. No, I’m just kidding. The way I feel about rape jokes is the way I feel about any jokes. If it’s funny, it’s fine with me. The whole Tosh thing and all that, I’ll always get a comedian’s back, unless it’s a crazy Kramer rant. I’ll always get a comic’s back. You’re just trying to figure it out. If you say a joke and the crowd responds in a way that’s like, “No, we’re not really on board with that,” you change it or don’t do it. But for these smaller live shows that comics are doing in their cities to prepare for TV or larger shows, I just feel like everybody should back off, even if it’s a rape joke or whatever. If it’s not funny then it’s just annoying anyway, and it just makes it a little more annoying that it’s a joke about the worst thing you can do. Yeah, it’s so unacceptable. I talk about rape in my TV show, and I’m not trying to make light of it and say “who cares.” I’m kind of sort of bringing up the conversation that it happens a lot and it’s not cool. I was waiting for the backlash on that, but it didn’t happen, and I think it’s because people saw my intentions.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jordanzakarin/amy-schumer-tackles-porn-rape-jokes-and-her-sudden-rise-to-f

And Sarah Silverman

[LostOne4Ever]

18. I have only seen one or two episodes of that show before

Its humor just not appeals to me.

Maybe its my lack of familiarity with the show overall, but it seems to me, from the clip, that the message they are trying to convey is that thinking like that is not okay. The guy with a beard seems generally freaked and tries to tell him as much.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DudeNotFunny
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlackComedy

I think this trope about covers it.

One of the many big problem with rape jokes, imho, is that they have a tendency to trivialize one of the most vile and despicable acts in society and by extension to marginalize the victims. Their pain or trauma is ignored as if they are not even people.

That said, the dark humor "supposedly" tries make humor of serious subjects while not taking away from the tragedy involved in them. Theoretically, it should be possible to do so, but most of the ones I find about rape fail to pull it off.

PS: I apologize to anyone who wastes countless hours on TVTropes on account of my links...

[Tuesday Afternoon]

21. the guy with the beard ... yeah. I liked him but, no respect for him. I would not do business

with Dennis. I would not be his partner. I would slowly write Dennis out of my life but, that's just me.

I tend to stay away from sociopaths as soon as I identify one.

[JonLP24]

22. I think "The gang solves the gas crisis" is probably the funniest

I liked how they kept destroying that poor guy's car and the line, "wildcard bitches" (said in a Foghorn Leghorn accent - makes more sense if you saw that episode) from Charlie is the best line of the show.

[JoeyT]

31. Gun Fever was my favorite.

Season 1 Episode 7 was a close tie.

[Jenoch]

26. Jokes about rape are not funny, in any context.

Even Senator Al Franken thought a skit about drugging and raping CBS anchor/reporter Lesley Stahl would be funny. He came up with this 'joke' when he was writing for SNL back in the 90s.

[DreamGypsy]

29. So, we bought the ropes and the handcuffs...

...and the branding iron, and let it think, that if it says 'yes', then maybe, in 5 in or 10 years, we'll let it go.

Is that 'comedy'? Where's the essential difference from "the boat"

I don't own a TV, so I don't watch TV. I have had no exposure to the wonderful, humorous experience of It's Always Sunny in <your town goes here>, but IMHO ...

If you have honest questions about whether this program is promoting rape or just probing the depths of psychopathic behavior for the true enlightenment of the observing, drooling audience, then perhaps you should blow up your TV as well.

There are no rape jokes that are actually jokes.

[geek tragedy]

32. Some jokes need to be funny. There are funny rape jokes, but the

fallout from an unfunny rape joke makes it really foul and poisonous.

Not for amateurs, and usually not for men.