General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums10 Reasons Russia Is a Much Crueler Place Than the Cuddly Snowy Image It's Projecting at Sochi
http://www.alternet.org/world/awful-russian-policies***SNIP
1. Gay Propaganda Law
Russias brutal targeting of its lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender population has attracted the lions share of press coverage and activist initiatives around the world related to the Olympics. The first anti-gay law passed in the Russian legislature last year and was signed by Putin on June 30. The bill bans propaganda about non-traditional sexual relations around children. It is written so broadly that it effectively bars any positive discussion of gay rights or any action labeled as gay around children. The legislation imposes fines of up to $156 for an individual and $31,000 for media organizations, and could also lead to the arrests of LGBT people.
***SNIP
2. Russian Adoption Law
On July 3, Putin signed into law a bill barring gay couples from adopting Russian-born children. In addition, the legislation bans the adoption of Russian children by any parents who live in a country where marriage equality is the law. In a statement released after the bill was passed, the Kremlin said: The measure is aimed at guaranteeing a harmonious and full upbringing for children in adoptive families. The legislation was supported by right-wing American evangelicals like the National Organization for Marriage president.
3. Foreign Agents Law
In 2012, a law was passed targeting non-governmental organizations that receive money from abroad. It forces NGOs in Russia working on issues ranging from LGBT rights to corruption to register as foreign agents with the government. Since its passage, Russian authorities have investigated thousands of nonprofits suspected of being foreign agents. Some organizations have suffered hefty fines. A few groups that could not withstand the fines were forced to shut down over the law.
4. Anti-Gay Violence
The anti-gay laws have contributed to an environment in Russia where being gay is seen as a crime. The legislation has institutionalized homophobia, and LGBT activists say the bills are encouraging violence against gays. In September 2013, the Guardian reported that activists told the newspaper, the legislation has emboldened rightwing groups who use social media to ambush gay people, luring them to meetings and then humiliating them on camerasometimes pouring urine on them. Gay teenagers have been particularly targeted.
Behind the Aegis
(53,959 posts)GRACIEBIRD
(94 posts)I appreciate the great effort US activists have displayed to seek equality but lack of accuracy in reporting only makes people doubt the claims.
#2 is misstated to make a point.
Fact: there is no law in Russia disallowing gay Russian people to adopt children. Being gay is not a crime in Russia. Russia had open military service before the USA. Russia allows legal name changes and blood donation by gay people.
It is more accurate to say that today Russia is about where the US was 10 years ago.
Russia is certainly not a welcoming environment for gay people and that is sad, but to ignore the nations that actually make homosexuality ILLEGAL is Russophobic.
There are 83 nations on this planet that currently OUTLAW homosexuality. Homosexuality as a crime will be punished and punishment can be severe including a death penalty.
IRAN
MAURITANIA
SUDAN
SAUDI ARABIA
YEMEN
UGANDA (currently working on legislation)
These countries EXECUTE homosexuals.
William769
(55,147 posts)With that said Lets see you post how many LGBT people have adopted in Russia to back up your claim.
And did you also know that They are checking International couples to see if they are Gay because or not because they don't want Russian Children going to LGBT families.
P.S. The Russian Embassy in London has already hired Baghdad Bob. Are you trying to take his place?
Sorry but facts are facts and well propaganda is propaganda.
Behind the Aegis
(53,959 posts)On July 3, Putin signed into law a bill barring gay couples from adopting Russian-born children. In addition, the legislation bans the adoption of Russian children by any parents who live in a country where marriage equality is the law. In a statement released after the bill was passed, the Kremlin said: The measure is aimed at guaranteeing a harmonious and full upbringing for children in adoptive families. The legislation was supported by right-wing American evangelicals like the National Organization for Marriage president.
Now, to address your Strawpeople...
Fact: there is no law in Russia disallowing gay Russian people to adopt children. That isn't what the excerpt said. It said gay COUPLES, not single people.) Being gay is not a crime in Russia. (No one said it was. Logical fallacy known as a "strawman." Russia had open military service before the USA. (Yes and no. It is more complicated than how you state it. Gays were no longer allowed to claim "homosexuality" as a reason for not serving.) Russia allows legal name changes and blood donation by gay people. (Always good to anchor with the truth, but these are far and away some of the least important rights for gay people.)
Russia is certainly not a welcoming environment for gay people and that is sad, but to ignore the nations that actually make homosexuality ILLEGAL is Russophobic.
That is just laughable. Not only is it a logical fallacy, it isn't true. Who are these people "ignoring" other nations' horrific stance on GLBT people? If you pop into the LGBT group (a protected safe-haven group at DU3), you will see many of the countries you have listed and some you haven't being discussed. As a matter of fact, you can go over there and sign the petition to stop the law in Uganda!
Gay people and our TRUE allies are able to multitask. We can slam Russia, whilst shouting down the current stupidity in Tennessee. We aren't limited. Oh sure, there are those who are using the current homophobia in Russia for political reasons, just as there are those who are using arguments like yours to deflect from the homophobia in Russia.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)It's fucking sickening.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)The GOP would be proud.
Fearless
(18,421 posts)"Russia banned adoptions by single people from countries where same-sex marriage is legal on Thursday"
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304434104579380613782162016?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702304434104579380613782162016.html
-------------------------
Seems pretty clear language to me.
William769
(55,147 posts)xchrom
(108,903 posts)but can he stand my Side Eye?!11
***i don't THINK so...
Behind the Aegis
(53,959 posts)For standing up to homophobic and transphobic remarks we are labeled bullies, thin-skinned, heterophobes (giggle), Russiophobes (snort), pushing our gay agenda down other's throats, and mafia-like...am I missing any?
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)That's one of my faves.
Behind the Aegis
(53,959 posts)It's the "reverse racism" of the anti-gay set.
go west young man
(4,856 posts)You have actually hurt the LGBT cause over there and even Putin opponents are pissed off with all the Russia dissing. Sadly your approach has not helped LGBT in their quest for equal rights which they rightly deserve. The lack of understanding of Russia at DU and in the MSM is a large part of the problem. What did everyone expect when you kept putting them all down? In actuality the LGBT loud approach at Russia during this Olympics has done more to help reignite the Cold War than Dick Cheney himself could have done. I bet the MIC is loving the LGBT community right now. Personally I think the media used everybody.
Excerpt from the article: An Affront to All Russians
Even if most Sochi bashing is directed at Putin, it still hits all Russians. Olympic fever is rampant in Russia and 69 percent of those surveyed are pleased about the games, with two out of three following the events on television. Even Russians who protested two years ago against Putin's return to the Kremlin feel the criticism is excessive. They are very aware of corruption and environmental damage. What they are sensitive about right now, though, is the constant and unfair barrage of ridicule from the West.
The Russians are perplexed by the world, and it's not their fault. They're celebrating a party in Sochi. But we're the party poopers waiting for any chance we can find to say: "Haha, the Russians have screwed up again!"
Marat Gelman, Moscow's best known art gallery owner, once claimed that things are only right in the world for the West if bad news is coming out of Russia.
I hope Gelman is wrong.
go west young man
(4,856 posts)And New Republic. http://www.newrepublic.com/article/116507/russians-hit-back-west-cool-it-olympic-schadenfreude
countryjake
(8,554 posts)William769
(55,147 posts)I won't comment further because it won't look pretty for you.
Pay close attention to this one dare I say they are Russians! (oh wait they are LGBT Russians so I guess they don't count in your book).
&feature=share&list=PLmUZRJp0LSZiwErAxwubjVGq8ELFTmqEc
The Queer closet
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)I guess the IOC's measured response to Germany stopped the Holocaust..what absolute fucking apologist crap.
GRACIEBIRD
(94 posts)The West has certainly been Russia bashing unfairly.
Let's look at the recent memes. You know the picture with 2 toilets in 1 stall? Well look at the picture, you can see the shadow of where there was a stall divider that had been removed, damaged or broken off. In some versions of this picture someone has even photoshopped the mark on the wall to make it less apparent.
And regarding toilet paper in a bin. If these "Ugly American" Xenophobes had ever left their bigoted living room they'd know that DOZENS of nations across Europe practice a toilet paper in a bin routine. They probably can't understand why you flush mounds of paper down a toilet. And yes, in some parts of the world there is a cotton towel on the sink for cleaning your body parts and in some, yes a bidet. Just because something doesn't exist in the US doesn't mean it's disgusting or weird.
And the yellow water... any time a building has plumbing work done, the faucets will run dirty for a few moments when restarted. Anyone think that if it were a common problem there might be more than 1-2 pictures on Twitter of dirty water?
But more importantly, the gall of Americans to criticize others despite your own sins... you point the finger at Russian youths for abusing LGBT people while your nation is famous for killing it's own children in schools, your government even institutionalises torture by torturing innocent civilians worldwide. You point the finger at yellow Russian water but continue to dump chemicals into your own water supply, you mock Russian construction while your own bridges collapse, you have a government that respects no sovereignty of other nations, you listen to the phone of my PM and you make spying to dwarf anything the KGB ever did.
So, it's pathetic US... you're hypocritical and hateful. Keep up the stereotype.
William769
(55,147 posts)You might want to do the same here. Egg on face can get messy.
sheshe2
(83,786 posts)I wonder if they would dispute this fact.
How anti-gay groups use 'Russian Facebook' to persecute LGBT people
Widespread homophobia affects Russias online communities - and little is being done to stop it.
While the world tunes in to the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi, hundreds of gay, lesbian, and transgender Russian citizens will be persecuted and attacked; the result of plots formed online by homophobic groups buoyed up by Putins anti-gay propaganda laws.
Occupy Paedophilia was one of the leading groups to feature in a Channel 4 Dispatches programme, broadcast last Wednesday, which exposed the extent of the violence faced by the LGBT community. The group has a prominent presence on VK, with over 90,000 followers as well as other local factions pulling in more supporters.
Occupy Paedophilia use the site to connect with gay men, posing as potential love interests, before luring them into situations where they will be attacked, a process they refer to as safaris using bait.
Uploaded regularly to the site, films show victims being violently attacked and humilliated. This is content that is easily available to view, and is liked, passed around, and shared on the site, seemingly without impediment.
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/feb/11/russia-violent-anti-gay-groups-vkontakte-lgbt-sochi
William769
(55,147 posts)Crickets and he knows they are here. Baghdad Bob would be so proud of him.
As to what you posted though he would argue though thats the west's propaganda and it really isn't happening. If he only know what he looked like to the casual passer by.
sheshe2
(83,786 posts)so yes, I saw them. Will watch the rest tomorrow.
They hurt my soul, I can only imagine what they do to yours.
go west young man
(4,856 posts)They can't see the err of their ways unfortunately. Some Olympic spirit we have sadly.
Behind the Aegis
(53,959 posts)Visual aids are always helpful.
It's always interesting to hear how by standing up against homophobia, we actually hurt our cause.
Your efforts are noted.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)that we lost the 2010 elections
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)I will continue to point out Russia's homophobia until they do something that's, I don't know, not homophobic.
countryjake
(8,554 posts)That one is the real head-scratcher, ha!
Behind the Aegis
(53,959 posts)OOOOOooo...I like it. Sounds sexy!
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)It was mostly being used at people that keep using "Comrade" to refer to people that oppose the NSA. There's only about three of them, so it wasn't being slung around much. Now that the people defending Russia's bigotry are picking it up, I think I'm going to have to abandon the word to avoid confusion.
It will be fun when they start accusing people that are openly socialist of red baiting.
William769
(55,147 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)nt
sheshe2
(83,786 posts)It certainly is an assessment of your country, and it damn well is not a pretty one.
This is, without a doubt not only a recognition of Russias achievements in sports, it is, there is no doubt, an assessment of our country, Putin said in 2007, in the aftermath of the International Olympic Committees choice to hold the games in Sochi. This is an acknowledgment of its growing capabilities, first and foremost in the economic and social spheres.
Your capabilities will never grow when you continue to take your country backwards. Those that wish to take rights and human dignity away from LGBT citizens and destroy the families that they have made are beneath contempt. You are so blind with bigotry and hatred you would destroy a child and break a family because you don't like the parents that raised them.
Yeah great recognition for Russia!
William769
(55,147 posts)And in more ways than one.
sheshe2
(83,786 posts)The bigotry is strong, the power to stop them is stronger!
Thank you xchrom for posting this thread. Facts are facts.