The Official, I live in the South, why are we having *snow* this again, thread

[Aerows]

What on earth?

[Journeyman]

1. Wasn't there an ice storm in the South sometime maybe 15-20 years ago? . . .

I have a vague memory of this but hey, I could be remembering a movie.


No, take that back: Seems my memory was better than I thought. I searched around and found this:

Alabama 1982 The Great 1982 Alabama Ice Storm

Posted by James Spann on January 10, 2005, 11:05 pm in Weather History ( ABC 33/40 Weather Blog)

Twenty three years ago today (January 11, 1982), the low temperature in Birmingham was one degree below zero as much of the deep south was truly in the deep freeze. At the time, I was the weeknight weather anchor at Channel 13, and I was growing concerned about the pattern that was setting up. A shallow layer of extremely cold air near the surface, the ground completely frozen, and a southwest flow aloft setting up which would bring warmer and moist air up and over that very cold air below. Everything was in place for a long period of freezing rain, which would pose a major threat of icing. The forecast was good, but the timing was bad. We figured the freezing rain would begin late in the day on Tuesday January 12, 1982. But, it started during the middle of the morning, catching just about everyone off guard. You could also sense some panic as roads turned to ice quickly by late morning. Schools dismissed and businesses closed, but it was basically too late. The interstate system resembled a parking lot, and emergency shelters had to be opened to accommodate stranded motorists with no way to get home.

The following two days featured a mix of ice and snow, and almost one third of the state had no power during the height of the storm. A total of twenty deaths were blamed on the storm, and timber damage was in the millions. Those of us up on Red Mountain had no hope of getting off the hill due to the ice; it was Friday morning before we got home. And, most of us only brought a change of clothes for one day!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ice_storms

Wishing you the best, Aerows. I hope it proves nowhere near as bad as predicted.

[Art_from_Ark]

9. There was deep freeze in Arkansas in December 1983

It stayed well below freezing, even below zero, in Northwest Arkansas for several days around Christmas. That was freaking cold

[Jenoch]

13. I remember December 1983.

I was in college in central Minnrsota. On December 19 the temperature was -41° with no winchill.

[Art_from_Ark]

14. I've never experienced that sort of cold

I think the coldest it got in my area was around -15. But that was still quite cold, especially considering that I was working at the time in a factory that had no heating! We had to rely on the heat coming from the machinery to stay semi-warm. :brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr:

[dixiegrrrrl]

10. 1987? 88? deep freeze in Ala.

I was living a bit South of Mobile at the time, and remember it hit freezing and stayed there for several days.
That is when I realized that 20 degrees in the humid south was LOTS colder than 20 degrees in Puget Sound.

[Boom Sound 416]

45. Snowed in Jacksonville in 89

That was fun (to watch from the side of the road)

[Orsino]

94. '93 Etlanna ice storm made the front of the Stars & Stripes.

I was here for a week of ice in '95. It's supposed to happen every few years, and when it doesn't, we become even less prepared to deal.

[Downwinder]

16. I drove through one, New years Eve 1964.

[jakeXT]

19. Exactly 20 years ago

http://www.wtoc.com/story/24693622/20-years-later-mid-south-learns-from-1994-ice-storm

[Behind the Aegis]

2. Is it snowing down there?

It was supposed to snow here and it missed us. IT didn't get above freezing today, but the sun was out, so lots of snow melted....and now it's all ice!

[Aerows]

32. It missed us, Thank every diety ever prayed to

I took all the plants in last night, though.

I love my spider plants and caladiums.

And the ornamental Ficus tree. Heck I just like my plants.

[Behind the Aegis]

33. Glad it missed y'all too.

Snow is bad enough, but ice is the worst, especially in the South.

[Aerows]

34. It is

Thank you, BTA, and I hope you and yours are doing well in this mess of a winter we are having. I remember you telling me about your chihuahuas, I hope you are spoiling them as much as I am spoiling my little devil that is a cat

[DesertFlower]

3. i'm in phoenix. the forecast for tomorrow is 80 -- then

up to 88 by saturday. last week it was 58. for 2 weeks before that we had mid 70s.

[msongs]

4. because it is winter and this happens quite often? nt

[Are_grits_groceries]

6. Not like this it doesn't.

This is a change in NE SC. We rarely get these types of storms one after the other. If it is as bad as predicted, this will be a historic storm.

So no. Our weather patterns have been different.
I think that using old models is going to misleading. The weather patterns are now jumbled up. I don't know if they will settle down for years or much longer.

[Spider Jerusalem]

11. I suspect that people will look back at the winter of 2013-2014...

as the point when the consequences of climate change began to really manifest. The drought in California and the Southwest, the polar vortex and heavy storms in the Eastern US, the heavy rains and flooding we've had here in the UK for the past month? That's all connected; that's all the result of climate change, and it's probably going to get worse no matter what we do (which for the most part has been "nothing", for the past 30 years or so).

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Ding, ding, ding

Add the rains in Mexico, with floods, and unusual cold in Mexico City.

The heat wave in Australia, the heat wave in chile. The wild fires in Australia, I could go on

[yeoman6987]

30. And what can we do?

I want to do a lot for Climate Change but unless we get Russian and China on board to fix their mess, we can't do a thing that will be substantial.

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. And both Russia and China say unless we cannot get the US

to do something, we cannot do anything substantial.

Well somebody has to break that logjam. Given the mentality and short term thinking of humans, I don't expect it.

Well, no species lives forever.

[steve2470]

5. Don't slip on the ice, Aerows

Stay safe, my fellow Southerner !

[rustydog]

7. Glenn Beckkkkk's response:

"Tell me again how this is GLOBAL WARMING!"

[2naSalit]

8. You want I should

send you some ice cleats? They sell them up here, they strap onto your shoe and then you can walk on that stuff.

[Are_grits_groceries]

12. I have ice cleats.

I got them when I lived near DC and we had more wintry mixes than in SC.

[steve2470]

17. 30 and freezing rain in Atlanta right now, ugh nt

[hobbit709]

18. It's called climate change.

[Are_grits_groceries]

20. It was a rhetorical statement.

Most know the basics of climate change, but when such examples as this occur, it is startling.

And while I generally agree with your premise, you cannot tie this event to climate change without a lot more data. Weather is inherently tricky. This might occur even without the changes we have seen.

[Spider Jerusalem]

25. Sure you can.

How many more data points do you need? How many extreme weather events does it take before you can definitively say "okay, climate change is causing this"? Isn't saying "well, maybe it's not actually climate change" just a way of ignoring the obvious so you don't have to actually deal with it?

Record high temperatures in Alaska. Extreme drought in the Southwest. Winter storms in the Eastern US (including unusually severe snow in the South). Record rainfall and hurricane-force gales and widespread flooding in the UK. It isn't JUST the winter storm, it's everything that's happening across a broad swath of the Northern Hemisphere, in terms of climate and weather.

[hatrack]

28. I posted re. AK a few days ago

Temperatures in January were as much as 40F above historic averages.

Think about that for a moment, considering that a prior temperature record being broken by two or three degrees is a big deal in meteorology.

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. Yup

and I have seen this not just in AK. For family reasons I follow news from Mexico. Weather down there is also just crazy.

As Spider said, this is the northern hemisphere and a fine exercise in fluid dynamics.

[steve2470]

21. 'Historic' storm ramping up as temperatures drop and precipitation increases

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/historic-storm-ramping-up-as-temperatures-drop-and/ndLpP/

By Mike Morris
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

The potentially devastating winter storm that forecasters and the governor have been warning about for days began unfolding before daybreak Wednesday as temperatures dropped to 32 degrees or below and began freezing the precipitation that returned overnight.

It’s being called catastrophic and historic, and those aren’t words tossed around lightly, according to meteorologist Brad Nitz with Channel 2 Action News.

The number of power outages is growing by the minute. Just before 5 a.m., the number of customers in the dark was 2,000. That number climbed to 6,000 at 6 a.m. and 9,000 just 20 minutes later.

Freezing rain and a temperature of 32 degrees were reported at Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport at 6 a.m., while it was 29 with snow in Gainesville, 30 with freezing rain in Chamblee and 31 with freezing rain in Marietta. Alpharetta and Dunwoody reported 30 degrees, and it was 31 in Dallas.

[Rhythm]

22. NC had a nasty ice-storm in February of '95...

I grew up in/around Charlotte, and the worst ice storm i remember was on Feb. 3rd, '95... the day my mom got remarried (my dad had died 3 yrs prior).

Crazy woman would ~not~ reschedule the wedding, so there were exactly 12 of us there, and the 30-mile-drive my family had to make to the church took us 3 1/2 hrs each way.

[malaise]

23. Blame Obama

[nadinbrzezinski]

95. SNORT, FUNNY

After the last 18 hours, I needed that!

[malaise]

96. Don't you know that he sent fake snow to the South

for the last storm?

[nadinbrzezinski]

97. The guy is busy

very much inside baseball, but we are mostly on the road to pure divided government locally.

Pass the champagne. For me it will be glorious!!!!

[Are_grits_groceries]

24. 7am The amount of ice forecast has changed.

We were in the 1/4-1/2 inch range.
Now are are in the 1/2-1inch range.

[Glitterati]

26. Just went out and cleaned the snow out of the bird feeder

One little sparrow was just sitting huddled up on the feeder because it was covered in several inches of snow. I went out and cleaned out the snow, added some more food and now she's just sitting on it chowing down.

Just while I was typing this word got out that there's fresh seed uncovered and the feeders are being mobbed.

[Berlum]

27. For one and all: Shelter from the Storm

[Jamastiene]

29. I love it!

I love the snow, specifically. The freezing rain and ice comes around noon today. Right now, I'm getting ready to go outside and play like a kid until the ice and freezing rain and sleet gets here. Then, I'll come back inside and hunker down and wait for the freaking power to go out. It is supposed to be windy today and all the trees are already weighted down. They aren't used to this much weight on them, so losing power seems inevitable. I don't mind the cold, because I love it, but I can already see my aunt and my cat sitting there with dour looks on their faces being all grumpy about the cold when it does happen. Neither are amused by all this frozen stuff falling out of the sky. I'm ecstatic, or will be until the sleet and other crap gets here. The snow, by itself, though? I freaking love it.

P.S. I wonder how long before the inevitable Stupid Moron Southerners Should be CHAMPS at Driving on Ice and Sleet Threads start. The NWS has already urged at least 2 states and probably will in NC too sometime today to stay home and don't try to drive in this. Our roads are not graded for ice driving and with all the hills we have, even experienced ice drivers would slide right off, but don't let that stop them from bashing us and calling us morons and idiots. Nope, we should be CHAMPEEN Olympic Ice Drivers in the south what with our maybe once a year, twice at most snow events that last a couple days. We are just stupid idiots for not winning gold in the Olympic Ice Driving competitions.

[Aerows]

38. Oh Lord. If it is snowing where you are, my friend, then it is probably headed my way

Did the storm stall or something?

In any case, please be careful, Jamastiene. You are one of my friends in this big morass known as DU and the planet Earth, and I wouldn't want to see you harmed.

I saw cars that whirled around and plugging the freeway on both sides due to ice down here not very long ago. Literally, only stopped because the front end and the back end were wedged into the on ramp side walls. Impressive, and ugly.

[Montana redneck]

76. slick ice

We know just don't like all the whiners we see on the news. I live in Montana 10 miles from town and we have had 72 inches of snow this winter I don't know how many below zero days and the wind..just keeps blowing..I have a 7th grade daughter who was never had a snow day since she started school. You should hear her when she watches the news about your little storms. Oh and her female bus driver puts the chains on the bus herself to get through drifted roads. One thing though out here part of our cost of electricity is the pruning and removal of trees from powerline right of ways. Don't your power companies do the same? I'll bet your paying for it.

[Jamastiene]

102. Lol, like clockwork.

Our power companies barely trim the trees. They are used to tornadoes and hurricanes down here, so that is their thinking when they do our tree trimming. Our trees aren't acclimated to snow. So, they cannot handle the weight. We'd have to cut almost all of our trees down to avoid losing power when it snows and sleets and ices up on top of that. We aren't going to do that. Have you ever hard a pine tree snap under the weight of ice and snow? It sounds like a rifle shot and snaps the pine trees like a twig. Oak trees just fall completely over. They uproot entirely. That takes down houses, power lines, cars, and anything and anyone else in its path. It's a different world down here. Different areas are sculpted by what weather we usually have. The flora and fauna in our area is just not used to this stuff. Even the birds and squirrels look confused and sort of scared. They are doing their own version of "Buy all the bread and milk in the store." at my feeder today. It literally is a different world in different areas of the country. You'd probably freak if you accidentally stepped on a fire ant mound and the ground started looking like it was moving under your feet, then you felt the wrath that is fire ants.

[Montana redneck]

103. waaaa

We have that issue when we have a big wet snow after trees have leaved out or before leaves have fell in the fall. Regardless electric is back on in a day unless the utility's haven't done their job or homeowners aren't keeping trees cut back. You should call your public service commission and find out if you pay for it I've got a good REA but the private electric supplier around here has gotten in trouble on the right of way trimming issue. Hope your power is still on.

[MineralMan]

31. It's global climate change.

Climate and weather are not the same thing. Weather patterns are changing because the climate is changing. That can result in ice storms in Atlanta and worse.

[B2G]

37. Ice storms happen in the south

They have since we started tracking weather evens, and will continue.

Sorry, but I feel we lose credibility every time a significant weather event occurs and we try to tie it to climate change.

It's about trends, not isolated events.

[Aerows]

39. You lose credibility

When you spout nonsense.

Glad you pointed out who you were, though. It's helpful to know the people that are agitators in our midst.

[B2G]

40. Get a grip

Do you not think that isolated weather events can be blamed on things other than climate change?

There are valid meterological reasons for weather events that have nothing to do with the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere.

[Aerows]

41. Hi!

Of course I believe everything climate change deniers say, particularly when it protects their profits!

[B2G]

42. I am not a climate change denier

What I am saying is that every significant weather event can't be blamed on climate change by default. Other things factor in.

I think that's a reasoned approach to take, but if you disagree, I could care less. You can't just ignore factors that influence the weather and scream 'climate change!' everytime an event occurs, unless you want to lose all credibility.

[Aerows]

43. Well, I think if losing all credibility were an Olympic sport?

You are in the top ten with that post. But go ahead. Here's a shovel.

[B2G]

44. Do you know anything at all

about meterology?

Cause it doesn't sound like you do.

[Aerows]

47. Just science

and a little bit of archeology.

[B2G]

49. Please describe the meteorological events

leading up to this storm without using 'climate change' in your explanation.

TIA.

[Aerows]

50. Are the words "Geology" off-limits, too? n/t

[B2G]

52. Nope, go for it nt

[Aerows]

53. How about quantitative analysis?

Are you familiar with that term?

[B2G]

56. Are you going to provide any specifics or

just toss out terms?

[Aerows]

57. I wanted to make sure you were comfortable with discussion

since the term "climate change" seemed to be a bit of a bother for you.

So, quantitative analysis? Familiar with it? Are you comfortable with it?

[B2G]

60. Are you going to just condescend or

or explain how this event is caused by climate change?

[Aerows]

63. Start here.

http://www.geolsoc.org.uk/Geoscientist/Archive/June-2010/Glaciers-no-nonsense-science

[B2G]

69. That relates to this winter storm exactly how?

What does that have to do with the deep low that developed over the Gulf of Mexico and then moved to the east, pulling in moisture from both the Gulf and the Atlantic to the east, while factoring in the Arctic air from the north, which was under-run by a wedge of warmer air that resulted in icing?

All of this was a classic ice storm setup that has happened throughout the ages and will happen again.

Can you apply your glacial link theory to this setup and explain how it caused this convergence of meteorological events?

[Aerows]

71. And your idea that a polar vortex

doesn't exist relates how?

[B2G]

72. Did I say that a polar vortex doesn't exist?

No, I didn't. But it isn't responsible in this case. Polar vortexes were responsible for the tremendous temperature plunges in January. Temps right now are just below freezing.

Arctic air regularly makes it's way to the lower states. That doesn't necessarily make it a 'Polar Vortex'.

And I will also note that Polar Vortexes have been observed since the 1800's.

[Aerows]

73. Not necessarily

so you do believe, then?

[B2G]

74. Believe what?

What does 'not necessarily' mean? What are you trying to argue here?

[Aerows]

75. You said "not necessarily indicative"

which means on some level you DO believe. Don't you?

[B2G]

77. Let me spell this out for you

This is a classic ice storm for reasons I have explained to you repeatedly.

It has nothing to do with glaciers. It has nothing to do with Polar Vortexes. It is a classic low pressure setup pulling moisture in from the Gulf and the Atlantic, with cold air aloft and a warm air cone below.

I don't know how to make this any plainer to you, so I'll stop trying now and prepare for the potential ice we might get tonight.

[Aerows]

79. Uh huh

Clear as the sky in Beijing. Environmental concerns are just silly. Those people in WV should have just sucked it up and drank the water.

[B2G]

80. OMG. You are all over the place.

Maybe you should just turn this discussion over to Mineral Man. At least he has a train of thought that can be followed.

[Aerows]

81. Oh wait, you do?

By all means then. Please start using it!

Honestly, though, I don't take this seriously because I view it on the same level as creationists debating evolution. You have a faith (or a strong motivation) to NOT believe that there is such a thing as climate change so you don't "believe" in it. I'm not stupid enough to believe in your arguments, because there is enough scientific evidence to make a mountain vs. your molehill that profits handsomely.

[B2G]

82. I provided a detailed analysis

as to why I viewed this event as classic winter storm that has been repeated througtout history.

You provided a link that was backed up with no explanation as to how it relates to this storm and threw in the words 'polar vortex'.

OK, you win. Lol.

[Aerows]

83. At least I took up your time

and you weren't harassing someone else, now didn't I? I hope you get paid by the hour, and I'm quite sure you do. Hope this was an entertaining day for you, my lobbyist friend.

[B2G]

84. Whateves

And BTW, I'm salaried.

[Aerows]

85. There you go :)

Hope I made your day more entertaining

[B2G]

86. Vastly so

Enjoy your ice!

[Aerows]

87. As long as you aren't some ugly

overweight bald guy. Then, I'd be pretty upset that it was entertaining you as your chair groaned like a pained animal to keep you from falling ass over teakettle from it.

[B2G]

88. So now you're regressing to

insulting people based on their weight and the amount of hair on their heads?

You're pathetic.

[Aerows]

89. *Bang*

I'm pretty good, aren't I?

[B2G]

90. I'm sure you think so. nt

[Aerows]

91. No, I pretty much nailed it.

.

Have a great night and stay warm.

[B2G]

93. Nailed it like you nailed the rest of this thread.

I AM in fact a fat balding guy who lives in his parents' basement eating pizza and being paid by the hour by BP to debug climate change examples on the internet by lonely old women from the south with nothing better to do than toss our vague catch phrases and links to obscure studies about climate change.

You caught me. Well done.

[Aerows]

98. Thought so

I thought it was well done, too.

[MineralMan]

51. Whatever you say...

I'm not talking about a weather event, but a weather pattern and trend. But never mind...

[Aerows]

54. Don't worry

I have this one.

[MineralMan]

55. So it appears. I just answered from My Posts.

Carry on. You're doing fine.

[Aerows]

58. Feel free to chime in, though

I know you have enough geological knowledge to put everyone to shame.

[MineralMan]

61. Perhaps, but meteorology is a different discipline.

Still, what has happened with the polar vortices has been eye-opening, and it's affecting the weather throughout the US. From California's drought to the ice storms in the South, the change in the weather patterns in the north polar region clearly appears to be affected by climate change. The diminishing polar ice and many other factors are disturbing those patterns, and we're seeing the results of that in this winter's weather.

But, the climate change deniers will not see...

[Aerows]

65. Meteorologic changes

are always reflected in geology. Many of them point to the fact that there was once a polar ice sheet, and that means it is just an ebb and flow with the planet. They don't understand that the strata results are indicative of periods of time that conclude a very different narrative.

So I'm just playing around with this one. I have no doubt they won't get it, but hey, I have to try.

[Spider Jerusalem]

78. This isn't an "isolated event".

Unless the drought in the Southwest, the record warmth in Alaska, and the heavy rainfall and floods in the UK are also "isolated events" that just happen to be occurring at the exact same time.

[Orsino]

92. The odd thing about these ice storms is that they come so infrequently in the South now.

Not that they happen at all.

[B2G]

99. It takes a very special set of circumstances

for an ice storm setup. Especially in the southern tier of the US.

And thank god for that.

[Rex]

101. But the storms in the south are not isolated events.

I mean I guess they could be to someone not paying attention to the bigger picture.

[ohheckyeah]

35. It's started here in Virginia...

we are supposed to get eight to 10 inches tonight. I HATE snow.

[nc4bo]

36. Tons of fun on the roads in my lil section of NC. Be safe - there be madness out there. nt

[jakeXT]

46. Charlotte, Raleigh Drivers Having 'Atlanta' Moment As Everyone Heads Home from Work at the Same Time

http://www.weather.com/news/commuter-conditions/charlotte-traffic-standstill-winter-storm-pax-photos-20140212

[nc4bo]

48. No kidding. It's bad. Hope everyone gets home and not have to spend the night out there.

Too many waited til the last minute to go home.

[Tom Ripley]

64. I put up with Baptists and humidity so that I don't have to deal with this shit

this isn't fair. Snow is highly overrated.

[Aerows]

67. Baptists and humidity

I don't know which one is worse. Both are oppressive.

[bettyellen]

66. Oh you have no idea how shitty this has been up north. there are mountains of solid ice all over the

place up here. very slippery patches of ice walking everywhere and cold ass winds. i just reparked my car into where I almost died last week. and it was so icy already, it got struck 3/4 of the way in, and it's crooked- but at least I can keep an eye on it there.
I cannot wait for the big melt.

[Aerows]

68. As a person upthread pointed out, though

we have Baptists and humidity down here.

And Pentecostals: For when being a Baptist and refraining from dance, drink and anything resembling pleasure isn't enough, now you can't even do your hair or wear something remotely appealing.

[bettyellen]

70. neither of which I can tolerate. but this has been crazy! last week, two days after the storm they

were ticketing cars even though they could not plow since everything was solid ice, the plow just didn;t even bother putting down it;s blades. what a scam. there was some outrage, and they agreed not to ticket or attempt to *fake plow* this week, until the temps went up to 32. so, now we have to calculate the chances of the temp rising to 32 everyday and get out ice picks if it might.

[Jamastiene]

100. Or show any skin, if female.

That's one thing I have noticed about the Pentacostals in my area. They won't allow women to wear a dress (and women can ONLY wear dresses) that shows her forearms or even the bottoms of her legs. Her ankles might show a little, if she's feeling daring, but even that is rare.